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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whisky, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested... Res ipsa loquitur. Let the good times roll.
Gonzo Papers, Vol. 2: Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the '80s (1988) four_tildes_9/2?/7_in the pm
I've read in a few articles now that he had "painful medical problems" yet not once have i read anywhere what these ailments were or when he was diagnosed with them, or much of anything regarding the actual medical problems, other than the fact that he had them. I think it would be helpful to everybody if this article included any known information on the subject.
So, I added a "Tributes" section to the page in an attempt to differentiate between extremely informative biographical asides (such as: "Thompson's title "Doctor" was purchased from the Universal Life Church in the late '60s.") and the obscure, random cultural references and/or tributes that typically constitute "tivia" on wikipedia (such as: "The Avenged Sevenfold song Bat Country is a tribute to Thompson.")
Maybe the asides would serve better as "notes?" If anybody has a better way to do this, please go for it. Ok! 02:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Can someone add the controversy surrounding Hunter S Thompson's death? I've heard reports from one of his close friends that a few days before his death he mentioned that someone would kill him and make it look like a suicide. Other reports mention that he was investigating our government's role in the cause of 9/11 and other staged terroristic activities. Also the fact that reports of the events leading up to his "suicide" were changed on 3 different accounts and that his wishes for his remains to be burned and destroyed without a proper autopsy were never verified except for his "family's wishes." I hope someone can compile some of the information I've supplied above with documented sources and post it on the page. I think it is a helpful and interesting topic that should be included in the life of the gonzo journalist Hunter S Thompson. 71.225.35.36 21:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)Stexe
I know only of
one man really pushing this agenda.
Ok!
22:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Was Thompson implicated in John DeCamp's Franklin child abuse allegations the alleged child prostitution ring serving high level U.S. politicians and other powerful elite. It was suggested he was involved in filming a snuff movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.221.162 ( talk) 20:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
There are reports of Hunter Thompson's death late this evening - February 20th. Suicide is being reported, but I've left that out until it can be verified. (DJ 20 Feb 2005) 23:03 (UTC)
[2]-- User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 04:28, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC) [3] - no registration
? Ground 02:18, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Does Bill Murray's Thompson movie Where the Buffalo Roam (1980) merit a mention? Devin Chalmers 21:46, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This quote is good but needs a source to be added: "Ralph Steadman 's comment was : He told me 25 years ago that he would feel real trapped if he didn't know that he could commit suicide at any moment.I don't know if that is brave or stupid or what, but it was inevitable. I think that the truth of what rings through all his writing is that he meant what he said. If that is entertainment to you, well, that's OK. If you think that it enlightened you, well, that's even better. If you wonder if he's gone to Heaven or Hell- rest assured he will check out the both, find out which one Richard Milhaus Nixon went to- and go there. He could never stand being bored. But there must be Football too- and Peacocks" Tkessler 07:50, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
i am going to add a picture of the gonzo logo, but there should also be mentions of his mescaline and other drug use, the peyote seed being one of the focal points of the gonzo logo.
There needs to be more expansion, for sure.
Lockeownzj00 23:17, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
HST's eulogy on Nixon, was worth a read. [4] [ [5] - Ozzyslovechild 07:07, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thought it would be useful to move it all down here.
In any case -- the new york times is reporting that he was 65 years old In this Article -- Everyone else says 67. Either the times is wrong, or the original AP wire story got it wrong, and everyone copied it. The times is not infallable, of course, but they do have a tendancy to do their own research -- discuss here. 66.82.9.91 08:11, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The "Deconstructing Hunter S. Thompson" essay by Jules Siegel should be removed. It's a whopping nine paragraphs long and deconstructs nothing by Siegel's hasty opinion, drifting into criticism of Leary and Hoffman. This inferior writer, who can't even stay on topic for nine paragraphs, shouldn't be included, as he is an idiot. Also in the article, Siegel mentions "the day of (Thompson's) burial." Thompson was cremated. This Siegel character is obviously a hack and trying to get some attention for his lackluster career by attacking a sacred cow.
Glad you think that attacking me helps your point, which is, at best, absurd. 205.196.218.26 01:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Gonzo Journalist Hunter S. Thompson was found dead in his home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
I'm removing the ongoing event template. He shot himself, and if it turns out to be false (which would be very strange indeed) we'll change the article then. If it turns out to be true, we'll just take away the "apparent" from "apparent suicide". Gkhan 12:17, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
I'm removing the ongoing event template. He killed himself, and if it turns out to be false (which would be very strange indeed) we'll change the article accordingly. If it turns out to be true, we'll just take away the "apparent" from "apparent suicide". Gkhan 12:19, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
As with the Enron executive that died in the heat of the news trickle, people judged to have died by their own hand, intentionally, in the first minutes of a crime investigation, strike me to be the ones most advantageously to be considered to have done that
I don't think it is accurate to call Gonzo Journalism "widely imitated." The list of practitioners drops off pretty quickly.. - Ozzyslovechild 19:49, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Gonzo Journalism, as part of what was once called the New Journalism, has been assimilated into a lot of mainstream magazine journalism. Pick up a Rolling Stone, GQ or Esquire, and you can see it. The major contribution is the unabashed involvement of the writer in the story. I would count Tom Chiarella, David Sedaris and Tom Junod as important journalists who display Gonzo influences (though they all have their own styles and voices). Of course, other New Journalists, such as Truman Capote and Tom Wolfe, also had profound influences. Capote broke ground with his "non-fiction novel" In Cold Blood, and Wolfe's and George Plimpton's involvement with subjects reflected Thompson's. A link to the New Journalism page is called for.
Thompson was a commentator, and commentators have been "part of the story" for centuries. What evidence is there that this became more common after Thompson hit the scene than it was in the times of Mark Twain or H. L. Mencken? Both were national celebrities -- with much greater influence than Thompson -- who referred to their own adventures, misadventures, and opinions, including as principles in national news events. Thompson never had a fraction of the national attention that Mencken attracted, such as at the Scopes trial. Nicmart ( talk · contribs) 02:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thanks for your 2 cents, but not helpful whatsoever. please go rant to your friends and not here. Slinkymaster ( talk) 05:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Thompson frequently referred to himself as "Raoul Duke" or "Dr. Gonzo."
In the famous drawing in fear and Loathing in LV with him creeping around with chemicals falling out of his suitcase, Ralph Steadman has labelled hhim as Dr Gonzo
i do not understand the removal of the thompson image. it is more relevant than the gonzo i mage, if any are. both should be present. Lockeownzj00 05:05, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Removed this from article to here:
The reason for the removal, on technical grounds, is a lack of a source or citation. There are any number of stories floating around about what happened. What we need is a seperate section that presents these stories, with citations and external links, that describe the various stories. I have seen other stories including his son was in the room next door. That he held a "goodbye" party the weekend before. And so on. Stbalbach 22:19, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This link leads to the cnn article that was deleted a few weeks after it was put up. Not sure the rules on archives but seems legit. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/books/02/25/thompsondeath.wife.ap/ - shadware 11:26pm(CST) Aug 26, 2006
Sounds like the Universal Life Church. Anybody know for sure? -- Fastfission 07:17, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've sent an e-mail to the Universal Life Church asking them. I'll include the information they send in the article. -- Jm woltjen 18:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Thompson claimed in an interview with Playboy to have obtained a mail-order doctorate from something called "the Church of the New Truth." Hoping volume three of the letters will clear this up. ahess247 06:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Please note that Thompson himself was not a Doctor of Journalism - Raul Duke, the character in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: Notes on the Death of the American Dream, mentioned that he was a Doctor of Journalism in the film, but divinity in the book. In any case, ULC have confirmed that Dr. Thompson was himself a D.D. (Honorary Doctor of Divinty).
Regards,
AGS
Depp and Sakar are working with ZAMBELLI Fireworks on the design of a fireworks shell that will contain his ashes and be fired from his estate in Colorado.
If the image had been replaced with something appropriate I would not complain. According to Resolving disputes:
Instead we have an editor(s) saying "I personally dont like the picture" and removing it. Bad form. The logical arguments can be countered. This is a metaphysical image about Thompsons wish to be projected out of a cannon - would you rather a picture of circus cannon? A WWII Howitzer? Come on, this image is tastefully creative and appropriate. It is a common motif of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, very common in after-death type subjects. In addition, Hunter Thompson was a major drug user, this makes the image even more appropriate for the subject matter (even if you dont like the thought of it, personally).
I will await your response before restoring the image. - Stbalbach 04:37, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I received a whole bunch of links in an email relating to HST's death. I'll pop them here in case they're of use to anyone. Any particularly good ones you find (I don't have time to read them now) could be graduated to the article.
-- bodnotbod 16:41, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
I created an article for this at one time but it's either been lost due to a change in the directing link or deleted by someone. It was admittedly incomplete but probably could have been revised instead of deleted if that's the case. (anonymous)
The epilogue in Hell's Angels tells of the beating and shows a picture of HST's battered face. It had to do with their representation in the book, but I can't remember the details. It's in the book. The episode has to do with a major theme of the book: how the Hell's Angels wanted to benefit from their fame while not wanting to appear to be exploited (how naive). I think they attacked HST at least partly because they felt they'd been exploited.
E. Jean Carroll's "Hunter" published quotes from Thompson, Sonny Barger and another Hell's Angel about what happened. They all agree that Hunter witnessed a biker slap his woman and kick his dog, and observed that "only a punk would hit his old lady." According to the Angels, the biker proceeded to beat the hell out of Thompson, kicking him while he curled up in a ball on the floor. Thompson claimed that he was holding his own and so several other bikers ganged up on him. According to Barger, Thompson promised them a keg of beer as payment and reneged on the deal. Perhaps the savage beating he received had something to do with it. "Hunter" is a good source & I think the article's claim that the Angels beat him up over money is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.199.218 ( talk) 02:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Thompson watched a member kick a dog and slap mhis old lady when she objected. He commented that "only a wimp slaps women and kicks dogs" whereupon he was pole-axed, and when one Angel fights, all present fight.
This is prolly off-time, but here's this:
It's pretty lo-rent, but at least it gets the fag-flava into the discourse. Now you must decide how you feel about that, if at all. Next step would include maybe vector graphic-ize the icon maybe? Wonder if the circle is part of the icon. Prolly is, now that I wonder on it. Guessin the text isn't, but I suppose it could be. Need to check. Read that there is plan to actively market the estate the estate in some ways. Wonder if Juan will CC any iconic images andor content in that realm. I'm all for makin sure the estate gets paid for HST's good deeds on earth. I'm also all for CCing whatever the fuck is CC-able. Anyhoo, :)b - Ozzyslovechild 13:53, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
File:A-1 copy.jpg |
Among other movie treatments in the works, Sean Penn has purchased the film rights to Thompson's The Curse of Lono and is working on bringing it to the big screen. Penn also wrote the introduction to a new, very limited edition of the book (1,000 copies, all signed by Thompson and illustrator Ralph Steadman), which has otherwise gone out of print.
I would like to collect informaition about it on my wiki since it is too controversial for here. Would be glad if you could help me out(links on my userpage) Conwiki 05:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thompson talked about how he would feel trapped if he couldn't kill himself. I see no reason why anyone could say that his death was murder.
Franklin child abuse allegations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.221.162 ( talk) 20:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
It appears there is some conflict as to which is accurate. Do we have an authoritative source? For now I've changed the article to the neutral "discharge" but it would be nice to settle it.
I'd say the quality and preponderance of evidence is for "honorable" (In spite of my earlier comments) but would love to have an authoritative source.
Wikibofh 00:00, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Douglas Brinkley, editor of Thompson's collection of letters The Proud Highway repeatedly says it was an honorable discharge, but he doesn't cite a specific source. Likewise, Thompson himself in several letters says he will be getting an honorable discharge. But take both for what they are worth. Logan 5 16:58, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have a copy of the New York Times obituary of Thompson which states he received a honorable discharge. Is this authoritative enough?-- Andymussell 01:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Brinkley would have access to HST's primary source material, which would be HST's letters, which would be about as authoritative as one could reasonably expect. There is no suggestion that he did anything that would warrant a dishonorable discharge. As noted in the current version, he was recommended for early release. ahess247 06:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Additions I made to this article were quickly amended to make them P.C. I referred to Virginia Thompson's drunkenness, and this has been changed to "alcoholism." Alcoholism is the P.C. way of referring to heavy drinking, dressing it up as a medical condition. My second reference to "heavy drinker" has become "alcohol abuse," which again medicalizes the behavior. I utterly reject this conversion of behavior to illness, as I believe did both James and Hunter Thompson. Thompson's attitude about drug use cuts to the heart of his unconventional views. Other changes convert writing that was simple and direct into something pretentious. These changes are ironic in light of the the person's life being discussed; Thompson representing as he did the antithesis of Political Correctness and mushy florid prose. In Wikipedia, apparently, all is to be reduced to the common wisdom, and myths, of the day.
On another score, I wrote of comments made directly to me by James Thompson. It would be pretty foolish of me to write in the third person of something said directly to me that (as it now reads), "James reportedly believed that his brother was offended by his homosexuality." He didn't "reportedly" say it, he DID say it, to me." Is every first hand conversation changed to an alleged report in Wikipedia?
Writing by committee always reaches the lowest common denominator.
Alcoholism is a specific medical term and is not a suitable replacement for Habitual Drinking, as there are many alcoholics who do not ever drink and many chronic drunks who are not alcoholic. I endorse the more accurate terms "drunkenness" and "heavy drinker" but I suggest there are more neutral ways of phrasing this, while maintaining accuracy, such as "chronic drinking" and "enthusiastic imbiber" which are more neutral but less inaccurate.
Pedant 01:13, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
I would be very cautious with the paragraph in the subsection on Suspeicious Circumstances, since the statement references Note 5, which in turn links to an article posted on www.prisonplanet.com PrisonPlanet.com] and not the Toronto Globe and Mail. The PrisonPlanet.com web site is known for its conspiracy theory articles. That article, in turn links to a statement that was posted on Globe and Mail. Here's the article verbatim:
Alexander Pope in a prose convertible
By PAUL WILLIAM ROBERTS
Saturday, February 26, 2005, Page F9
Hunter telephoned me on Feb. 19, the night before his death. He sounded scared. It wasn't always easy to understand what he said, particularly over the phone, he mumbled, yet when there was something he really wanted you to understand, you did. He'd been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it: "They're gonna make it look like suicide," he said. "I know how these bastards think . . ."
staff).
This is not the Britannica if a person wishes to be bored to death then they can go there and read themselves to death. I believe the taking of his life was made out by him to be a conspiracy. That he wanted to go out, but to go out with a bang that would not diminish his death and put the heat where he wanted it to be. Thus he throws his hat into the ring and has closing arguments that no one can counter. I believe that the conspiracy section should stand. And the conspiracy that he contrived in the taking of his life to be blamed on others should be added ~ ~ ~ ~ Okay Check
CAN WE CUT THE BS ABOUT HIS DEATH ALREADY? he had family at the house when it happened. so many people who have no idea who HST was saw some stupid infowars article about him and 9/11 and all the sudden its a conspiracy. I went to the press club after his death where they held a tribute for him. All of those in attendance said they knew it was coming and that he would of never died in a hospital bed. A few of them talked about how the last time they saw him that he got tearful saying goodbye which wasn't exactly normal behavior for him. He outlived his expectations and his health was failing him so it was time to go. Slinkymaster ( talk) 06:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I put a disambig link to Hunter Davies as I thought there was a prospect of confusion, and this was reverted with a comment "nobody will likely confuse these two people". I don't think this is the case. The first name Hunter is so unusual that when one comes across it in the context of a writer, with a common surname, your might well recall the wrong Hunter. I remember wondering why Terry Gilliam was making a film about that guy who wrote a book on the Beatles (HD) as I had never heard of HT. This was touched upon in Private Eye's piece on HT's death, where they wrote something like: 'Farewell then Hunter Thompson, you wrote a book on the Beatles, or was that someone else?' Finally, I would mention that HT is not well known outside the US (except perhaps because of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) so this makes disambiguation more important. What do people think?
Wow, what's up with Germany? More German pages than any other foreign language pages by an extreme margin. -- LamontCranston 24:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Anyone know if Hunter was ever asked, in an interview or lecture-tour or wherever, how he felt about his frequent vitriolic rants re: Watergate & et al compared to silence re: COINTELPRO & et al? [Although by no stretch of the imagination is this something only he is guilty of]
The Paul Perry biography of Thompson goes into some detail about Thompson's less than exemplarary relationships. I was surprised that none of that was mentioned here; in fact it would seem the opposite, Thompson's relationship with his first wife is seen AS exemplarary.
I was suprised after reading "Fear and Loathing in America" that he even had a relationship with his wife at all; people were coming and going and bringing massive quantities of drugs through his house outside Aspen on an amost continuous basis. If that's not a recipe for spousal disaster, I guess I don't know what is.
The overall problem with this article to me seems be pushing Thompson's "Gonzo" reputation while not providing a lot of concrete information beyond the myth.
Has anyone seen the 9/11 conspiracy piece? Is audio from Hunter used?
The link to the article leads to a 404 message. Can anybody correct this?
something that is synthesized does not come from a natural source!
"Del Toro" was supposed to direct? Is this a typo? I would assume they meant Gilliam but were thinking Del Toro when they wrote it down. - Darkhawk
I just read the deputies' report (Armstrong, Gibson, and Ryan) at TheSmokingGun and there are a surreal number of inconsistencies. Let's start with the fact (as we all know) that Juan called it in to the police, Juan was caught firing a shotgun into the air when the police arrived, and that Juan was left alone with the corpse to place an orange scarf on the body.
Now it gets worse:
The typewriter, and typewritten page ("counselor" dated two days into the future on 4th Amendment paper) are only mentioned by Ryan, who appears on the scene an hour later, AFTER Juan is left alone with the corpse. Ryan details the typewriter and takes the page into evidence. First responders Armstrong and Gibson don't mention the typewriter at all.
At this point, Deputy DiSalvo has already summoned a counselor from Aspen Counseling Center, who is on the scene when the page saying "counselor" is pulled from the typewriter.
Armstrong discovers gray goo on Thompson's hand and around his mouth. No idea what it is.
Thompson's hands are in his lap, but the gun is on the floor. Both Armstrong and Ryan notice (an hour apart) that the gun is UNDER the gun gase.
Wife is not mentioned in the police report AT ALL. No mention of the phone being off the hook. And with at least 1.5 hours between death (5:40 or earlier) and Ryan's report (7:10), she would have had plenty of time to drive home from "the gym."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0307051thompson1.html
Broodlinger 12:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The first two paragraphs concerning "The Early Years" are problematic. First we have a statement branding HST's mother Virginia "a heavy drinker" without any kind of citation whatsoever. Then the second paragraph of an article about HST isn't actually about HST at all, but rather about his brother, the cause of the brother's death, and then alleged complaints the brother made to a supposed roomate, all of which is uncredited to any outside source, and which reads, at least in part to be original research. I'm inclined to suggest that the entire second paragraph should be deleted as its barely relevant. To the extent that some of the factual assertions made can be confirmed by documentary evidence, they should be re-inserted with appropriate citations. In any event the second paragraph as currently written, reads horribly.
24.189.179.37 23:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
More problems with the Early Years. Here we have an uncorroborated report from a "childhood friend" branding HST an "alcoholic by 16," and obsessing again over Virginia's alleged alcoholism. Would someone please turn to the published biographies, find some documentary evidence to both of these allegations before re-introducing them here? There are no less than four biographies, and at least one source of autobiographical information. If you're going to put this information in a supposedly authoritative article, lets at least impose some fact-checking rigor.
Have we ever come to a consensus on adding in things about the so-called "mysterious circumstances" around Hunter's death? Stuff gets added every once in a while about him being killed by the government because he knew "the truth" about 9/11 (which of course, is preposterous, we all know 9/11 was carried out by Elvis under orders from the Illuminati and the world-wide conspiracy of Teacher's Unions). I say it should be left out, after all, this is an encyclopedia, not a conspiracy theory database. What is the consensus on stuff like this? GhostPirate 13:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes. There is a consensus: Leave it out. There were people in the house when he shot himself. It has been fully and thoroughly documented. End of story. ahess247 03:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
We can report that there is a dispute - but we should not get involved with the dispute. A few sentences covers it - reporting the details opens the door to counter-arguments etc.. which should be avoided. -- Stbalbach 15:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Hogwash. There is no dispute. He shot himself, case closed. This sounds to me like "teach the controversy" in the evolution vs. creation non-debate, and it doesn't wash. We shouldn't even dignify it with discussion. Debate is pointless because there's a difference between verifiable fact, and ridiculous fiction. ahess247 02:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me but this is a documented quote by Hunter and you should not be deleting this as it is fact that he said it. Webucation 13:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
This is not the Britannica if a person wishes to be bored to death then they can go there and read themselves to death. I believe the taking of his life was made out by him to be a conspiracy. That he wanted to go out, but to go out with a bang that would not diminish his death and put the heat where he wanted it to be. Thus he throws his hat into the ring and has closing arguments that no one can counter. I believe that the conspiracy section should stand. And the conspiracy that he contrived in the taking of his life to be blamed on others should be added. Let us not forget he was well tooled in the art, as the founder of, Gonzo journalism, a style of reporting which blurs distinctions between author and subject, fiction and nonfiction. Thus additionaly his consipracy may have been locked away in his own mind. It is still worth reporting, reviewing and most importantly reading. Okay Check 18:24, 26 February 2007
The below was posted by my talk page, moved here. -- Stbalbach 22:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
This is a straw poll to decide how to handle the conspiracy theories about Thompson's death in the article.
Three options:
Vote for 'Option 1', 'Option 2', or 'Option 3'.
http://www.jquinton.com/archives/002635.html
http://www.nowpublic.com/hunter_s_thompson_murdered
http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/4/4/104842/1268
There was no phone call to Paul Williams, which is the basis of the entire "murder" claim. How do I know this? See this 2-year-old text from the first link listed above, at http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/4/4/104842/1268 and accessed on 03.01.2007: Update [2005-4-8 7:34:51 by Drog]: This story was in error. As Wikinews has reported here, Thompson did not tell his friend Paul William Roberts that he was afraid of being murdered the night before his death. Roberts wrote that as a fictional introductory to an obituary. The obituary goes on to say it's fictional, but many readers could not read the full article because the publication demanded pay per view. I rest my case. ahess247 18:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The introductory text of The Obituary in The Globe and Mail, from 26 Feb 2005: (emphasis mine):
Hunter telephoned me on Feb. 19, the night before his death. He sounded scared. It wasn't always easy to understand what he said, particularly over the phone, he mumbled, yet when there was something he really wanted you to understand, you did. He'd been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it: "They're gonna make it look like suicide," he said. "I know how these bastards think . . .
That's how I imagine a tribute to Hunter S. Thompson should begin. He was indeed working on such a story, but it wasn't what killed him. He exercised his own option to do that. As he said to more than one person, "I would feel real trapped in this life if I didn't know I could commit suicide at any time.
It is an ironic end for one who deplored above all things the media trend toward self-censorship, often citing Orwell on the subject. Now, he exists only in a dozen books and countless magazine and newspaper articles. Did the good doctor write himself into literary immortality? This is all that matters now.
There it is, directly from the author to whom the original murder theory is widely credited. No late-night telephone prophecy about being murdered, and therefore no murder, not even the possibility of one. This discussion is over. ahess247 18:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Also note above that there are ratings from WikiProject Biograhy and WikiProject Louisville that current rate this article as a B. I see no reason that we should produce anything short of an A-class Wiki article, one that can stand up alongside the work done by any professional editor or biographer. Citing conspiracy-laced chatter about fictitious (*ahem* not fact-checked) assertions about a murder won't help. Just because some "back country" blogger thinks there was a murder doesn't make it a legit claim. Facts must be checked down to the PRIMARY source. Back Country conservative, is not a primary source, and to my mind doesn't qualify even as a secondary source. You have to trace the informational trail all the way back. And when you do that with the murder tales, they simply don't stand up, because there is no primary information. ahess247 19:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Straw Poll is now Split 4-4, however the information presented is currently weighing in favor of Option 1. If there is no other information presented here related to the various "murder" theories, then I move we close this topic, declare the murder theories off-limits except on the discussion page, and move on.
Wrong. First off, you don't know that. Secondly, you haven't read the material cited above carefully. the problem is that the sources, such as they are, fall not only far short of Wikipedia standards, they're practically worthless by any standard. I've shown here, definitively, that practically all of the chatter about murder theories was actually made up, and and actually described as fiction by the person who originally wrote it. In essence there is zero pro-murder source material to cite that isn't somehow derived from this material, whose original author unequivocally called it fiction. ahess247 19:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Another Alternative: A conspiracy theory "debunking" section, addressing precisely how false the murder rumors actually are, because they are demonstrably false. ahess247 20:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I think the Birth of Gonzo section needs a little sub-dividing. It seems to me that Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, as two of Thompson's most widely-remembered works, deserve their own section. ahess247 22:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added all the articles that were listed in HST's bibliography in The Great Shark Hunt and I think that we now have all of them. I think. Can the "This list of is incomplete" thing be removed? Or are some still missing? GhostPirate 22:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
NO! The list of articles is not complete. Free lance articles ESPN San Fransico Examiner Middletown Daily Record? Etc, Etc, Etc. Not saying they will be posted anytime soon.. Just saying the list is not complete. Ok! 22:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It needs to be spun off to Bibliography of Hunter S. Thompson. See Category:Bibliographies by author for how its done. -- Stbalbach 17:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that is a fine idea. It is a ridiculously long list - to be sure - but the comprehensiveness as a resource is also completely awesome. A prominently advertised separate page that includes the complete HST bibliography would be great. I think the article list is still only 75% complete, we still got the Examiner articles (which will be another 3-4 screens) and the free-lance articles yet to add. Ok! 15:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. Why isn't every piece of music written by Mozart listed somewhere?
Links are dying, (such as the ESPN link to "Hey Rube!" which is now behind a subscriber-only firewall) some links go to truly random places. It seems the right time to clean them up. Not every obit in every local paper is worthy of a link. External links should be to material that ads true context with the article, to addresses that are likely to be more or less permanent. ahess247 17:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
In the first paragraph it is stated that:
Yet when one looks at the Wiki page on Gonzo it only makes brief reference to this fact and places more emphasis on its first person, unedited and on-the-spot nature.
"Involves themselves in the action" makes one think that the journalist actually become central to the story - like Capote, where as I think a description of the writing's semi-fictional and subjective nature would be more concise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.146.157.138 ( talk) 13:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
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I think we need to make some kind of distinction between tributes and cultural depictions. I hate pop culture sections, but things like Doonesbury's Uncle Duke definitely deserve a mention. I wouldn't necessarily consider characters based on Hunter "tributes" (he famously said that he wanted to set Gary Trudeau on fire), but they should still be included. On the other side of things, a short mention in a Simpsons episode isn't really a tribute, and it would probably be better placed in a pop culture section. Thoughts? GhostPirate 21:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
As a casual Google search will show, HST reported on the fall of Vientiane and not the fall of Saigon. If I recall the passages from The Great Shark Hunt correctly, Saigon had already fallen when he made the decision to report on the Vietnam War. He decided to fly into Vientiane to report on the imminent fall of the city a few days later. -- Thaths 22:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The image HunterSThompson mkd.jpg titled "portrait of hunter s. thompson" looks very amateurish. i think including fanart in the article is a mistake. if there has to be fanart, an image should be used that resembles thompson at least. 85.178.71.86 01:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
This fair usage shit has got to stop, I understand the legal troubles, but using someones sketch no matter how good is fucking stupid. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.133.97.114 ( talk) 02:30:22, August 18, 2007 (UTC)
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Someone please change the picture, I'm sure everyone would rather see the man than see some sort of self aggrandizement by some fan who drew a picture. It would be one thing if it was a steadman drawing but some pathetic hatchmark test drawing doesn't do the man justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fkylw ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, Bill Cardoso coined the term "Gonzo" journalism, and was a friend of HST.
Cardoso was proud to be a Portuguese-Amercian from Massachusetts (as am I), and I can only assume that the character of Lacerda in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (The Portuguese Photographer) is some sort of homage to him, unless of course there was a real-life counterpart to Lacerda (which I doubt). Interesting to note that HST once claimed (possibly in a deliberately false manner) gonzo was a Portuguese word. He was right however; because 'gonzo' is a Portuguese word (that only has one simple meaning). A ‘gonzo’ is a noun of Latin origins in Portuguese, and would be called a 'hinge' in English (for say, a door or a window). Maybe it really means a type of of journalism that is simply hanging on by a hinge (or maybe not), but the only two men who can really answer that question have moved on, so now it is left to the whims of the Great Magnet.
Some interesting links on Bill Cardoso, where the Portuguese connection is noted: SF Gate, WorldHum, Boston News. [User:65.96.143.168|65.96.143.168]] 21:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)Goose, 10/29/07.
Hunter died a mere three years ago. It makes him look like he left us sometime in the 60's at the latest. There are better photos: that one is misleading. (sorry for the caps, but I'm so right) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.205.110.51 ( talk) 19:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted Sade as an influence, replacing it with Tom Wolfe. I have also added Mark Ames as being influenced by Thompson. Heres why:
Where is the source indicating that Sade had an influence on Thompson? The only time I recall Thompson mentioning Sade is when he is quoting directly from him or discussing his history in his book "Better Than Sex". Just because you quote someone doesn't mean he/she was an influence. In the book "Generation of Swine", Thompson quotes from the Gideon Bible. Does this mean that the Gideon Bible should be included as an influence? No it doesn't. If someone has any sources that indicate Sade was an influence on Thompson, please present it.
Tom Wolfe was an ifluence on Thompson just as much as Jack Kerouac was. In the book "Fear and Loathing in America" (from the Gonzo letters series), it explains that Thompson wrote a "glowing review" of Wolfes book "The Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline Baby" for the National Observer that the editor refused to publish( due to his personal predujedice against Wolfe). Later, Thompson and Wolfe would correspond with each other--leading to Thompson lending Wolfe some of his tapes from a Hells Angels ralley for Wolfe to use in his own book "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test". In another letter, Thompson claims that he is enjoying Wolfes book "The Pump House Gang" just as much as he did "Kandy-Kolored" and hopes to be able to see Wolfe lecture on "New Journalism".
Mark Ames is a ex-pat American journalist living in Russia. He was once associated/friends with journalist Matt Taibbi (who is listed as being influenced by Thompson). Ames founded the Russian ex-pat magazine, The Exile. The back of the book about the Exile ("The Exile : sex, drugs, and libel in the new Russia") that the magazine is described as
"...In the tradition of gonzo journalists like Hunter S. Thompson, Ames and Taibbi cover everything from decadent club scenes to the nation's collapsing political and economic systems - no person or institution is spared from their razor sharp satiric viewpoint." [19]
Aside from his association with Taibbi and the book description, Ames writing both in the book and in the Exile bears of the obvious influence of Thompson. I hope that these changes remain. Otherwise, lets discuss this. Rimbaud 2 20:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Article said he may have killed himself due to multiple painful health problems, but I don't think it says what these were. Could someone add these details please? If it may have caused his suicide, it's quite important. Merkinsmum 20:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not too familiar with HST, so he might have been genuinely loved by everyone, but it seems to me that if he gets a whole section devoted to listing all the praises he's gotten, he should have a "criticism" section like most every other figure on wiki. Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
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me LUV DR. HST though he gone bring out yer dead n' feed um' to blondes happy'n valintino's tag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.231.51 ( talk) 08:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The bottom paragraph is poorly written in itself, but it quite badly lacks continuity from the preceding paragraph. It reads hideously. I'll leave it for a while for anyone who feels able to tidy it up to have a go. I'll come back to it myself if necessary. Thanks. DanTheShrew ( talk) 11:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Which partial text does this refer to? The first part that appears on the G & L site without paying, or the second fragment seen in this article? Are both parts complete fiction, does Paul Roberts make any claims as to their veracity, is the first Roberts' imagination? I am honsetly confused by what the wikipedia section is trying to say here. It implies that the Roberts text is *not* genuine. Could someone clarify this please? - 84.223.78.86 ( talk) 16:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict in article so I could not make the fix I've described here:) Ok, I have just followed the two references (the worldforum and wikinews) and read that the Roberts piece is considered fictional. Therefore I have added the key words "fictional piece" before introducing the piece and removed my clarifyme tag. Please check I have this right. I believe this follows a Wikipedia principle of not surprising (and not confusing) the reader. Maybe someone could further improve the text flow of those two quotes to reinforce that the first breaks off just before G & L invites the reader to pay to read the rest. - 84.223.78.86 ( talk) 16:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
Maybe there is no Heaven. Or maybe this is all pure gibberish — a product of the demented imagination of a lazy drunken hillbilly with a heart full of hate who has found a way to live out where the real winds blow — to sleep late, have fun, get wild, drink whisky, and drive fast on empty streets with nothing in mind except falling in love and not getting arrested... Res ipsa loquitur. Let the good times roll.
Gonzo Papers, Vol. 2: Generation of Swine: Tales of Shame and Degradation in the '80s (1988) four_tildes_9/2?/7_in the pm
I've read in a few articles now that he had "painful medical problems" yet not once have i read anywhere what these ailments were or when he was diagnosed with them, or much of anything regarding the actual medical problems, other than the fact that he had them. I think it would be helpful to everybody if this article included any known information on the subject.
So, I added a "Tributes" section to the page in an attempt to differentiate between extremely informative biographical asides (such as: "Thompson's title "Doctor" was purchased from the Universal Life Church in the late '60s.") and the obscure, random cultural references and/or tributes that typically constitute "tivia" on wikipedia (such as: "The Avenged Sevenfold song Bat Country is a tribute to Thompson.")
Maybe the asides would serve better as "notes?" If anybody has a better way to do this, please go for it. Ok! 02:45, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Can someone add the controversy surrounding Hunter S Thompson's death? I've heard reports from one of his close friends that a few days before his death he mentioned that someone would kill him and make it look like a suicide. Other reports mention that he was investigating our government's role in the cause of 9/11 and other staged terroristic activities. Also the fact that reports of the events leading up to his "suicide" were changed on 3 different accounts and that his wishes for his remains to be burned and destroyed without a proper autopsy were never verified except for his "family's wishes." I hope someone can compile some of the information I've supplied above with documented sources and post it on the page. I think it is a helpful and interesting topic that should be included in the life of the gonzo journalist Hunter S Thompson. 71.225.35.36 21:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)Stexe
I know only of
one man really pushing this agenda.
Ok!
22:39, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Was Thompson implicated in John DeCamp's Franklin child abuse allegations the alleged child prostitution ring serving high level U.S. politicians and other powerful elite. It was suggested he was involved in filming a snuff movie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.221.162 ( talk) 20:27, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
There are reports of Hunter Thompson's death late this evening - February 20th. Suicide is being reported, but I've left that out until it can be verified. (DJ 20 Feb 2005) 23:03 (UTC)
[2]-- User:Boothy443 | comhrÚ 04:28, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC) [3] - no registration
? Ground 02:18, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Does Bill Murray's Thompson movie Where the Buffalo Roam (1980) merit a mention? Devin Chalmers 21:46, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
This quote is good but needs a source to be added: "Ralph Steadman 's comment was : He told me 25 years ago that he would feel real trapped if he didn't know that he could commit suicide at any moment.I don't know if that is brave or stupid or what, but it was inevitable. I think that the truth of what rings through all his writing is that he meant what he said. If that is entertainment to you, well, that's OK. If you think that it enlightened you, well, that's even better. If you wonder if he's gone to Heaven or Hell- rest assured he will check out the both, find out which one Richard Milhaus Nixon went to- and go there. He could never stand being bored. But there must be Football too- and Peacocks" Tkessler 07:50, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)
i am going to add a picture of the gonzo logo, but there should also be mentions of his mescaline and other drug use, the peyote seed being one of the focal points of the gonzo logo.
There needs to be more expansion, for sure.
Lockeownzj00 23:17, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)
HST's eulogy on Nixon, was worth a read. [4] [ [5] - Ozzyslovechild 07:07, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Thought it would be useful to move it all down here.
In any case -- the new york times is reporting that he was 65 years old In this Article -- Everyone else says 67. Either the times is wrong, or the original AP wire story got it wrong, and everyone copied it. The times is not infallable, of course, but they do have a tendancy to do their own research -- discuss here. 66.82.9.91 08:11, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The "Deconstructing Hunter S. Thompson" essay by Jules Siegel should be removed. It's a whopping nine paragraphs long and deconstructs nothing by Siegel's hasty opinion, drifting into criticism of Leary and Hoffman. This inferior writer, who can't even stay on topic for nine paragraphs, shouldn't be included, as he is an idiot. Also in the article, Siegel mentions "the day of (Thompson's) burial." Thompson was cremated. This Siegel character is obviously a hack and trying to get some attention for his lackluster career by attacking a sacred cow.
Glad you think that attacking me helps your point, which is, at best, absurd. 205.196.218.26 01:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Gonzo Journalist Hunter S. Thompson was found dead in his home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
I'm removing the ongoing event template. He shot himself, and if it turns out to be false (which would be very strange indeed) we'll change the article then. If it turns out to be true, we'll just take away the "apparent" from "apparent suicide". Gkhan 12:17, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
I'm removing the ongoing event template. He killed himself, and if it turns out to be false (which would be very strange indeed) we'll change the article accordingly. If it turns out to be true, we'll just take away the "apparent" from "apparent suicide". Gkhan 12:19, Feb 21, 2005 (UTC)
As with the Enron executive that died in the heat of the news trickle, people judged to have died by their own hand, intentionally, in the first minutes of a crime investigation, strike me to be the ones most advantageously to be considered to have done that
I don't think it is accurate to call Gonzo Journalism "widely imitated." The list of practitioners drops off pretty quickly.. - Ozzyslovechild 19:49, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Gonzo Journalism, as part of what was once called the New Journalism, has been assimilated into a lot of mainstream magazine journalism. Pick up a Rolling Stone, GQ or Esquire, and you can see it. The major contribution is the unabashed involvement of the writer in the story. I would count Tom Chiarella, David Sedaris and Tom Junod as important journalists who display Gonzo influences (though they all have their own styles and voices). Of course, other New Journalists, such as Truman Capote and Tom Wolfe, also had profound influences. Capote broke ground with his "non-fiction novel" In Cold Blood, and Wolfe's and George Plimpton's involvement with subjects reflected Thompson's. A link to the New Journalism page is called for.
Thompson was a commentator, and commentators have been "part of the story" for centuries. What evidence is there that this became more common after Thompson hit the scene than it was in the times of Mark Twain or H. L. Mencken? Both were national celebrities -- with much greater influence than Thompson -- who referred to their own adventures, misadventures, and opinions, including as principles in national news events. Thompson never had a fraction of the national attention that Mencken attracted, such as at the Scopes trial. Nicmart ( talk · contribs) 02:21, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
thanks for your 2 cents, but not helpful whatsoever. please go rant to your friends and not here. Slinkymaster ( talk) 05:58, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
Thompson frequently referred to himself as "Raoul Duke" or "Dr. Gonzo."
In the famous drawing in fear and Loathing in LV with him creeping around with chemicals falling out of his suitcase, Ralph Steadman has labelled hhim as Dr Gonzo
i do not understand the removal of the thompson image. it is more relevant than the gonzo i mage, if any are. both should be present. Lockeownzj00 05:05, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Removed this from article to here:
The reason for the removal, on technical grounds, is a lack of a source or citation. There are any number of stories floating around about what happened. What we need is a seperate section that presents these stories, with citations and external links, that describe the various stories. I have seen other stories including his son was in the room next door. That he held a "goodbye" party the weekend before. And so on. Stbalbach 22:19, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This link leads to the cnn article that was deleted a few weeks after it was put up. Not sure the rules on archives but seems legit. http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/books/02/25/thompsondeath.wife.ap/ - shadware 11:26pm(CST) Aug 26, 2006
Sounds like the Universal Life Church. Anybody know for sure? -- Fastfission 07:17, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've sent an e-mail to the Universal Life Church asking them. I'll include the information they send in the article. -- Jm woltjen 18:52, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Thompson claimed in an interview with Playboy to have obtained a mail-order doctorate from something called "the Church of the New Truth." Hoping volume three of the letters will clear this up. ahess247 06:06, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Please note that Thompson himself was not a Doctor of Journalism - Raul Duke, the character in Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas: Notes on the Death of the American Dream, mentioned that he was a Doctor of Journalism in the film, but divinity in the book. In any case, ULC have confirmed that Dr. Thompson was himself a D.D. (Honorary Doctor of Divinty).
Regards,
AGS
Depp and Sakar are working with ZAMBELLI Fireworks on the design of a fireworks shell that will contain his ashes and be fired from his estate in Colorado.
If the image had been replaced with something appropriate I would not complain. According to Resolving disputes:
Instead we have an editor(s) saying "I personally dont like the picture" and removing it. Bad form. The logical arguments can be countered. This is a metaphysical image about Thompsons wish to be projected out of a cannon - would you rather a picture of circus cannon? A WWII Howitzer? Come on, this image is tastefully creative and appropriate. It is a common motif of seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, very common in after-death type subjects. In addition, Hunter Thompson was a major drug user, this makes the image even more appropriate for the subject matter (even if you dont like the thought of it, personally).
I will await your response before restoring the image. - Stbalbach 04:37, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I received a whole bunch of links in an email relating to HST's death. I'll pop them here in case they're of use to anyone. Any particularly good ones you find (I don't have time to read them now) could be graduated to the article.
-- bodnotbod 16:41, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)
I created an article for this at one time but it's either been lost due to a change in the directing link or deleted by someone. It was admittedly incomplete but probably could have been revised instead of deleted if that's the case. (anonymous)
The epilogue in Hell's Angels tells of the beating and shows a picture of HST's battered face. It had to do with their representation in the book, but I can't remember the details. It's in the book. The episode has to do with a major theme of the book: how the Hell's Angels wanted to benefit from their fame while not wanting to appear to be exploited (how naive). I think they attacked HST at least partly because they felt they'd been exploited.
E. Jean Carroll's "Hunter" published quotes from Thompson, Sonny Barger and another Hell's Angel about what happened. They all agree that Hunter witnessed a biker slap his woman and kick his dog, and observed that "only a punk would hit his old lady." According to the Angels, the biker proceeded to beat the hell out of Thompson, kicking him while he curled up in a ball on the floor. Thompson claimed that he was holding his own and so several other bikers ganged up on him. According to Barger, Thompson promised them a keg of beer as payment and reneged on the deal. Perhaps the savage beating he received had something to do with it. "Hunter" is a good source & I think the article's claim that the Angels beat him up over money is wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.111.199.218 ( talk) 02:46, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Thompson watched a member kick a dog and slap mhis old lady when she objected. He commented that "only a wimp slaps women and kicks dogs" whereupon he was pole-axed, and when one Angel fights, all present fight.
This is prolly off-time, but here's this:
It's pretty lo-rent, but at least it gets the fag-flava into the discourse. Now you must decide how you feel about that, if at all. Next step would include maybe vector graphic-ize the icon maybe? Wonder if the circle is part of the icon. Prolly is, now that I wonder on it. Guessin the text isn't, but I suppose it could be. Need to check. Read that there is plan to actively market the estate the estate in some ways. Wonder if Juan will CC any iconic images andor content in that realm. I'm all for makin sure the estate gets paid for HST's good deeds on earth. I'm also all for CCing whatever the fuck is CC-able. Anyhoo, :)b - Ozzyslovechild 13:53, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC) |
File:A-1 copy.jpg |
Among other movie treatments in the works, Sean Penn has purchased the film rights to Thompson's The Curse of Lono and is working on bringing it to the big screen. Penn also wrote the introduction to a new, very limited edition of the book (1,000 copies, all signed by Thompson and illustrator Ralph Steadman), which has otherwise gone out of print.
I would like to collect informaition about it on my wiki since it is too controversial for here. Would be glad if you could help me out(links on my userpage) Conwiki 05:25, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thompson talked about how he would feel trapped if he couldn't kill himself. I see no reason why anyone could say that his death was murder.
Franklin child abuse allegations? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.205.221.162 ( talk) 20:34, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
It appears there is some conflict as to which is accurate. Do we have an authoritative source? For now I've changed the article to the neutral "discharge" but it would be nice to settle it.
I'd say the quality and preponderance of evidence is for "honorable" (In spite of my earlier comments) but would love to have an authoritative source.
Wikibofh 00:00, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
Douglas Brinkley, editor of Thompson's collection of letters The Proud Highway repeatedly says it was an honorable discharge, but he doesn't cite a specific source. Likewise, Thompson himself in several letters says he will be getting an honorable discharge. But take both for what they are worth. Logan 5 16:58, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I have a copy of the New York Times obituary of Thompson which states he received a honorable discharge. Is this authoritative enough?-- Andymussell 01:22, 23 July 2005 (UTC)
Brinkley would have access to HST's primary source material, which would be HST's letters, which would be about as authoritative as one could reasonably expect. There is no suggestion that he did anything that would warrant a dishonorable discharge. As noted in the current version, he was recommended for early release. ahess247 06:13, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Additions I made to this article were quickly amended to make them P.C. I referred to Virginia Thompson's drunkenness, and this has been changed to "alcoholism." Alcoholism is the P.C. way of referring to heavy drinking, dressing it up as a medical condition. My second reference to "heavy drinker" has become "alcohol abuse," which again medicalizes the behavior. I utterly reject this conversion of behavior to illness, as I believe did both James and Hunter Thompson. Thompson's attitude about drug use cuts to the heart of his unconventional views. Other changes convert writing that was simple and direct into something pretentious. These changes are ironic in light of the the person's life being discussed; Thompson representing as he did the antithesis of Political Correctness and mushy florid prose. In Wikipedia, apparently, all is to be reduced to the common wisdom, and myths, of the day.
On another score, I wrote of comments made directly to me by James Thompson. It would be pretty foolish of me to write in the third person of something said directly to me that (as it now reads), "James reportedly believed that his brother was offended by his homosexuality." He didn't "reportedly" say it, he DID say it, to me." Is every first hand conversation changed to an alleged report in Wikipedia?
Writing by committee always reaches the lowest common denominator.
Alcoholism is a specific medical term and is not a suitable replacement for Habitual Drinking, as there are many alcoholics who do not ever drink and many chronic drunks who are not alcoholic. I endorse the more accurate terms "drunkenness" and "heavy drinker" but I suggest there are more neutral ways of phrasing this, while maintaining accuracy, such as "chronic drinking" and "enthusiastic imbiber" which are more neutral but less inaccurate.
Pedant 01:13, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
I would be very cautious with the paragraph in the subsection on Suspeicious Circumstances, since the statement references Note 5, which in turn links to an article posted on www.prisonplanet.com PrisonPlanet.com] and not the Toronto Globe and Mail. The PrisonPlanet.com web site is known for its conspiracy theory articles. That article, in turn links to a statement that was posted on Globe and Mail. Here's the article verbatim:
Alexander Pope in a prose convertible
By PAUL WILLIAM ROBERTS
Saturday, February 26, 2005, Page F9
Hunter telephoned me on Feb. 19, the night before his death. He sounded scared. It wasn't always easy to understand what he said, particularly over the phone, he mumbled, yet when there was something he really wanted you to understand, you did. He'd been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it: "They're gonna make it look like suicide," he said. "I know how these bastards think . . ."
staff).
This is not the Britannica if a person wishes to be bored to death then they can go there and read themselves to death. I believe the taking of his life was made out by him to be a conspiracy. That he wanted to go out, but to go out with a bang that would not diminish his death and put the heat where he wanted it to be. Thus he throws his hat into the ring and has closing arguments that no one can counter. I believe that the conspiracy section should stand. And the conspiracy that he contrived in the taking of his life to be blamed on others should be added ~ ~ ~ ~ Okay Check
CAN WE CUT THE BS ABOUT HIS DEATH ALREADY? he had family at the house when it happened. so many people who have no idea who HST was saw some stupid infowars article about him and 9/11 and all the sudden its a conspiracy. I went to the press club after his death where they held a tribute for him. All of those in attendance said they knew it was coming and that he would of never died in a hospital bed. A few of them talked about how the last time they saw him that he got tearful saying goodbye which wasn't exactly normal behavior for him. He outlived his expectations and his health was failing him so it was time to go. Slinkymaster ( talk) 06:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)
I put a disambig link to Hunter Davies as I thought there was a prospect of confusion, and this was reverted with a comment "nobody will likely confuse these two people". I don't think this is the case. The first name Hunter is so unusual that when one comes across it in the context of a writer, with a common surname, your might well recall the wrong Hunter. I remember wondering why Terry Gilliam was making a film about that guy who wrote a book on the Beatles (HD) as I had never heard of HT. This was touched upon in Private Eye's piece on HT's death, where they wrote something like: 'Farewell then Hunter Thompson, you wrote a book on the Beatles, or was that someone else?' Finally, I would mention that HT is not well known outside the US (except perhaps because of Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas) so this makes disambiguation more important. What do people think?
Wow, what's up with Germany? More German pages than any other foreign language pages by an extreme margin. -- LamontCranston 24:10, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
Anyone know if Hunter was ever asked, in an interview or lecture-tour or wherever, how he felt about his frequent vitriolic rants re: Watergate & et al compared to silence re: COINTELPRO & et al? [Although by no stretch of the imagination is this something only he is guilty of]
The Paul Perry biography of Thompson goes into some detail about Thompson's less than exemplarary relationships. I was surprised that none of that was mentioned here; in fact it would seem the opposite, Thompson's relationship with his first wife is seen AS exemplarary.
I was suprised after reading "Fear and Loathing in America" that he even had a relationship with his wife at all; people were coming and going and bringing massive quantities of drugs through his house outside Aspen on an amost continuous basis. If that's not a recipe for spousal disaster, I guess I don't know what is.
The overall problem with this article to me seems be pushing Thompson's "Gonzo" reputation while not providing a lot of concrete information beyond the myth.
Has anyone seen the 9/11 conspiracy piece? Is audio from Hunter used?
The link to the article leads to a 404 message. Can anybody correct this?
something that is synthesized does not come from a natural source!
"Del Toro" was supposed to direct? Is this a typo? I would assume they meant Gilliam but were thinking Del Toro when they wrote it down. - Darkhawk
I just read the deputies' report (Armstrong, Gibson, and Ryan) at TheSmokingGun and there are a surreal number of inconsistencies. Let's start with the fact (as we all know) that Juan called it in to the police, Juan was caught firing a shotgun into the air when the police arrived, and that Juan was left alone with the corpse to place an orange scarf on the body.
Now it gets worse:
The typewriter, and typewritten page ("counselor" dated two days into the future on 4th Amendment paper) are only mentioned by Ryan, who appears on the scene an hour later, AFTER Juan is left alone with the corpse. Ryan details the typewriter and takes the page into evidence. First responders Armstrong and Gibson don't mention the typewriter at all.
At this point, Deputy DiSalvo has already summoned a counselor from Aspen Counseling Center, who is on the scene when the page saying "counselor" is pulled from the typewriter.
Armstrong discovers gray goo on Thompson's hand and around his mouth. No idea what it is.
Thompson's hands are in his lap, but the gun is on the floor. Both Armstrong and Ryan notice (an hour apart) that the gun is UNDER the gun gase.
Wife is not mentioned in the police report AT ALL. No mention of the phone being off the hook. And with at least 1.5 hours between death (5:40 or earlier) and Ryan's report (7:10), she would have had plenty of time to drive home from "the gym."
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0307051thompson1.html
Broodlinger 12:52, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
The first two paragraphs concerning "The Early Years" are problematic. First we have a statement branding HST's mother Virginia "a heavy drinker" without any kind of citation whatsoever. Then the second paragraph of an article about HST isn't actually about HST at all, but rather about his brother, the cause of the brother's death, and then alleged complaints the brother made to a supposed roomate, all of which is uncredited to any outside source, and which reads, at least in part to be original research. I'm inclined to suggest that the entire second paragraph should be deleted as its barely relevant. To the extent that some of the factual assertions made can be confirmed by documentary evidence, they should be re-inserted with appropriate citations. In any event the second paragraph as currently written, reads horribly.
24.189.179.37 23:45, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
More problems with the Early Years. Here we have an uncorroborated report from a "childhood friend" branding HST an "alcoholic by 16," and obsessing again over Virginia's alleged alcoholism. Would someone please turn to the published biographies, find some documentary evidence to both of these allegations before re-introducing them here? There are no less than four biographies, and at least one source of autobiographical information. If you're going to put this information in a supposedly authoritative article, lets at least impose some fact-checking rigor.
Have we ever come to a consensus on adding in things about the so-called "mysterious circumstances" around Hunter's death? Stuff gets added every once in a while about him being killed by the government because he knew "the truth" about 9/11 (which of course, is preposterous, we all know 9/11 was carried out by Elvis under orders from the Illuminati and the world-wide conspiracy of Teacher's Unions). I say it should be left out, after all, this is an encyclopedia, not a conspiracy theory database. What is the consensus on stuff like this? GhostPirate 13:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Yes. There is a consensus: Leave it out. There were people in the house when he shot himself. It has been fully and thoroughly documented. End of story. ahess247 03:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
We can report that there is a dispute - but we should not get involved with the dispute. A few sentences covers it - reporting the details opens the door to counter-arguments etc.. which should be avoided. -- Stbalbach 15:16, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Hogwash. There is no dispute. He shot himself, case closed. This sounds to me like "teach the controversy" in the evolution vs. creation non-debate, and it doesn't wash. We shouldn't even dignify it with discussion. Debate is pointless because there's a difference between verifiable fact, and ridiculous fiction. ahess247 02:37, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
Excuse me but this is a documented quote by Hunter and you should not be deleting this as it is fact that he said it. Webucation 13:30, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
This is not the Britannica if a person wishes to be bored to death then they can go there and read themselves to death. I believe the taking of his life was made out by him to be a conspiracy. That he wanted to go out, but to go out with a bang that would not diminish his death and put the heat where he wanted it to be. Thus he throws his hat into the ring and has closing arguments that no one can counter. I believe that the conspiracy section should stand. And the conspiracy that he contrived in the taking of his life to be blamed on others should be added. Let us not forget he was well tooled in the art, as the founder of, Gonzo journalism, a style of reporting which blurs distinctions between author and subject, fiction and nonfiction. Thus additionaly his consipracy may have been locked away in his own mind. It is still worth reporting, reviewing and most importantly reading. Okay Check 18:24, 26 February 2007
The below was posted by my talk page, moved here. -- Stbalbach 22:40, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
This is a straw poll to decide how to handle the conspiracy theories about Thompson's death in the article.
Three options:
Vote for 'Option 1', 'Option 2', or 'Option 3'.
http://www.jquinton.com/archives/002635.html
http://www.nowpublic.com/hunter_s_thompson_murdered
http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/4/4/104842/1268
There was no phone call to Paul Williams, which is the basis of the entire "murder" claim. How do I know this? See this 2-year-old text from the first link listed above, at http://www.theworldforum.org/story/2005/4/4/104842/1268 and accessed on 03.01.2007: Update [2005-4-8 7:34:51 by Drog]: This story was in error. As Wikinews has reported here, Thompson did not tell his friend Paul William Roberts that he was afraid of being murdered the night before his death. Roberts wrote that as a fictional introductory to an obituary. The obituary goes on to say it's fictional, but many readers could not read the full article because the publication demanded pay per view. I rest my case. ahess247 18:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The introductory text of The Obituary in The Globe and Mail, from 26 Feb 2005: (emphasis mine):
Hunter telephoned me on Feb. 19, the night before his death. He sounded scared. It wasn't always easy to understand what he said, particularly over the phone, he mumbled, yet when there was something he really wanted you to understand, you did. He'd been working on a story about the World Trade Center attacks and had stumbled across what he felt was hard evidence showing the towers had been brought down not by the airplanes that flew into them but by explosive charges set off in their foundations. Now he thought someone was out to stop him publishing it: "They're gonna make it look like suicide," he said. "I know how these bastards think . . .
That's how I imagine a tribute to Hunter S. Thompson should begin. He was indeed working on such a story, but it wasn't what killed him. He exercised his own option to do that. As he said to more than one person, "I would feel real trapped in this life if I didn't know I could commit suicide at any time.
It is an ironic end for one who deplored above all things the media trend toward self-censorship, often citing Orwell on the subject. Now, he exists only in a dozen books and countless magazine and newspaper articles. Did the good doctor write himself into literary immortality? This is all that matters now.
There it is, directly from the author to whom the original murder theory is widely credited. No late-night telephone prophecy about being murdered, and therefore no murder, not even the possibility of one. This discussion is over. ahess247 18:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Also note above that there are ratings from WikiProject Biograhy and WikiProject Louisville that current rate this article as a B. I see no reason that we should produce anything short of an A-class Wiki article, one that can stand up alongside the work done by any professional editor or biographer. Citing conspiracy-laced chatter about fictitious (*ahem* not fact-checked) assertions about a murder won't help. Just because some "back country" blogger thinks there was a murder doesn't make it a legit claim. Facts must be checked down to the PRIMARY source. Back Country conservative, is not a primary source, and to my mind doesn't qualify even as a secondary source. You have to trace the informational trail all the way back. And when you do that with the murder tales, they simply don't stand up, because there is no primary information. ahess247 19:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
Straw Poll is now Split 4-4, however the information presented is currently weighing in favor of Option 1. If there is no other information presented here related to the various "murder" theories, then I move we close this topic, declare the murder theories off-limits except on the discussion page, and move on.
Wrong. First off, you don't know that. Secondly, you haven't read the material cited above carefully. the problem is that the sources, such as they are, fall not only far short of Wikipedia standards, they're practically worthless by any standard. I've shown here, definitively, that practically all of the chatter about murder theories was actually made up, and and actually described as fiction by the person who originally wrote it. In essence there is zero pro-murder source material to cite that isn't somehow derived from this material, whose original author unequivocally called it fiction. ahess247 19:52, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Another Alternative: A conspiracy theory "debunking" section, addressing precisely how false the murder rumors actually are, because they are demonstrably false. ahess247 20:05, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 |
I think the Birth of Gonzo section needs a little sub-dividing. It seems to me that Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, as two of Thompson's most widely-remembered works, deserve their own section. ahess247 22:31, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I've added all the articles that were listed in HST's bibliography in The Great Shark Hunt and I think that we now have all of them. I think. Can the "This list of is incomplete" thing be removed? Or are some still missing? GhostPirate 22:32, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
NO! The list of articles is not complete. Free lance articles ESPN San Fransico Examiner Middletown Daily Record? Etc, Etc, Etc. Not saying they will be posted anytime soon.. Just saying the list is not complete. Ok! 22:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
It needs to be spun off to Bibliography of Hunter S. Thompson. See Category:Bibliographies by author for how its done. -- Stbalbach 17:27, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I think that is a fine idea. It is a ridiculously long list - to be sure - but the comprehensiveness as a resource is also completely awesome. A prominently advertised separate page that includes the complete HST bibliography would be great. I think the article list is still only 75% complete, we still got the Examiner articles (which will be another 3-4 screens) and the free-lance articles yet to add. Ok! 15:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC) P.S. Why isn't every piece of music written by Mozart listed somewhere?
Links are dying, (such as the ESPN link to "Hey Rube!" which is now behind a subscriber-only firewall) some links go to truly random places. It seems the right time to clean them up. Not every obit in every local paper is worthy of a link. External links should be to material that ads true context with the article, to addresses that are likely to be more or less permanent. ahess247 17:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
In the first paragraph it is stated that:
Yet when one looks at the Wiki page on Gonzo it only makes brief reference to this fact and places more emphasis on its first person, unedited and on-the-spot nature.
"Involves themselves in the action" makes one think that the journalist actually become central to the story - like Capote, where as I think a description of the writing's semi-fictional and subjective nature would be more concise. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.146.157.138 ( talk) 13:02, 24 April 2007 (UTC).
Image:Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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I think we need to make some kind of distinction between tributes and cultural depictions. I hate pop culture sections, but things like Doonesbury's Uncle Duke definitely deserve a mention. I wouldn't necessarily consider characters based on Hunter "tributes" (he famously said that he wanted to set Gary Trudeau on fire), but they should still be included. On the other side of things, a short mention in a Simpsons episode isn't really a tribute, and it would probably be better placed in a pop culture section. Thoughts? GhostPirate 21:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
As a casual Google search will show, HST reported on the fall of Vientiane and not the fall of Saigon. If I recall the passages from The Great Shark Hunt correctly, Saigon had already fallen when he made the decision to report on the Vietnam War. He decided to fly into Vientiane to report on the imminent fall of the city a few days later. -- Thaths 22:45, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
The image HunterSThompson mkd.jpg titled "portrait of hunter s. thompson" looks very amateurish. i think including fanart in the article is a mistake. if there has to be fanart, an image should be used that resembles thompson at least. 85.178.71.86 01:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
This fair usage shit has got to stop, I understand the legal troubles, but using someones sketch no matter how good is fucking stupid. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.133.97.114 ( talk) 02:30:22, August 18, 2007 (UTC)
Image:Thecurseoflonocover.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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Someone please change the picture, I'm sure everyone would rather see the man than see some sort of self aggrandizement by some fan who drew a picture. It would be one thing if it was a steadman drawing but some pathetic hatchmark test drawing doesn't do the man justice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fkylw ( talk • contribs) 00:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Obviously, Bill Cardoso coined the term "Gonzo" journalism, and was a friend of HST.
Cardoso was proud to be a Portuguese-Amercian from Massachusetts (as am I), and I can only assume that the character of Lacerda in Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas (The Portuguese Photographer) is some sort of homage to him, unless of course there was a real-life counterpart to Lacerda (which I doubt). Interesting to note that HST once claimed (possibly in a deliberately false manner) gonzo was a Portuguese word. He was right however; because 'gonzo' is a Portuguese word (that only has one simple meaning). A ‘gonzo’ is a noun of Latin origins in Portuguese, and would be called a 'hinge' in English (for say, a door or a window). Maybe it really means a type of of journalism that is simply hanging on by a hinge (or maybe not), but the only two men who can really answer that question have moved on, so now it is left to the whims of the Great Magnet.
Some interesting links on Bill Cardoso, where the Portuguese connection is noted: SF Gate, WorldHum, Boston News. [User:65.96.143.168|65.96.143.168]] 21:57, 29 October 2007 (UTC)Goose, 10/29/07.
Hunter died a mere three years ago. It makes him look like he left us sometime in the 60's at the latest. There are better photos: that one is misleading. (sorry for the caps, but I'm so right) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.205.110.51 ( talk) 19:11, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
I have deleted Sade as an influence, replacing it with Tom Wolfe. I have also added Mark Ames as being influenced by Thompson. Heres why:
Where is the source indicating that Sade had an influence on Thompson? The only time I recall Thompson mentioning Sade is when he is quoting directly from him or discussing his history in his book "Better Than Sex". Just because you quote someone doesn't mean he/she was an influence. In the book "Generation of Swine", Thompson quotes from the Gideon Bible. Does this mean that the Gideon Bible should be included as an influence? No it doesn't. If someone has any sources that indicate Sade was an influence on Thompson, please present it.
Tom Wolfe was an ifluence on Thompson just as much as Jack Kerouac was. In the book "Fear and Loathing in America" (from the Gonzo letters series), it explains that Thompson wrote a "glowing review" of Wolfes book "The Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline Baby" for the National Observer that the editor refused to publish( due to his personal predujedice against Wolfe). Later, Thompson and Wolfe would correspond with each other--leading to Thompson lending Wolfe some of his tapes from a Hells Angels ralley for Wolfe to use in his own book "The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test". In another letter, Thompson claims that he is enjoying Wolfes book "The Pump House Gang" just as much as he did "Kandy-Kolored" and hopes to be able to see Wolfe lecture on "New Journalism".
Mark Ames is a ex-pat American journalist living in Russia. He was once associated/friends with journalist Matt Taibbi (who is listed as being influenced by Thompson). Ames founded the Russian ex-pat magazine, The Exile. The back of the book about the Exile ("The Exile : sex, drugs, and libel in the new Russia") that the magazine is described as
"...In the tradition of gonzo journalists like Hunter S. Thompson, Ames and Taibbi cover everything from decadent club scenes to the nation's collapsing political and economic systems - no person or institution is spared from their razor sharp satiric viewpoint." [19]
Aside from his association with Taibbi and the book description, Ames writing both in the book and in the Exile bears of the obvious influence of Thompson. I hope that these changes remain. Otherwise, lets discuss this. Rimbaud 2 20:07, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Article said he may have killed himself due to multiple painful health problems, but I don't think it says what these were. Could someone add these details please? If it may have caused his suicide, it's quite important. Merkinsmum 20:36, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not too familiar with HST, so he might have been genuinely loved by everyone, but it seems to me that if he gets a whole section devoted to listing all the praises he's gotten, he should have a "criticism" section like most every other figure on wiki. Not even Mr. Lister's Koromon survived intact. 05:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
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me LUV DR. HST though he gone bring out yer dead n' feed um' to blondes happy'n valintino's tag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.16.231.51 ( talk) 08:33, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
The bottom paragraph is poorly written in itself, but it quite badly lacks continuity from the preceding paragraph. It reads hideously. I'll leave it for a while for anyone who feels able to tidy it up to have a go. I'll come back to it myself if necessary. Thanks. DanTheShrew ( talk) 11:07, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
Which partial text does this refer to? The first part that appears on the G & L site without paying, or the second fragment seen in this article? Are both parts complete fiction, does Paul Roberts make any claims as to their veracity, is the first Roberts' imagination? I am honsetly confused by what the wikipedia section is trying to say here. It implies that the Roberts text is *not* genuine. Could someone clarify this please? - 84.223.78.86 ( talk) 16:32, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
(edit conflict in article so I could not make the fix I've described here:) Ok, I have just followed the two references (the worldforum and wikinews) and read that the Roberts piece is considered fictional. Therefore I have added the key words "fictional piece" before introducing the piece and removed my clarifyme tag. Please check I have this right. I believe this follows a Wikipedia principle of not surprising (and not confusing) the reader. Maybe someone could further improve the text flow of those two quotes to reinforce that the first breaks off just before G & L invites the reader to pay to read the rest. - 84.223.78.86 ( talk) 16:48, 5 May 2008 (UTC)