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All right, let's talk about it. I am no vandal. I looked up the name, and it seems that even Hungarian sources cite it as 'Hunt-Paznan', most notably a 1910 book, which seemsto have been written during the days of the Monarchy. So it should be left this way. But still I would very much appreciate if someone could provide some English info about this new theory concerning the family's origins, because I don't beleive, that it should be stated as obvious. 82.141.174.131 20:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Some ambiguities probably due to mis-translation, but it is unclear if or when the Patzzmans became Poznans; at one point it appears they are NOT related, at another that they ARE. Shir-El too 20:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps an RfC would help this article. Squash Racket 11:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Request for Comments going on at Talk:Hunt-Poznan. Please join. Squash Racket 17:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
There isn't any contemporary source (diplomats, chronciles, epigraphical monument etc.) for "Poznan". The first Pazman was a Swabian knight who fought with St. Stephen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.120.122.139 ( talk) 11:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, there is. Name "Poznano" (together with Cuntio) is used in the deed of foundation of Pannonhalma abbey from year 1001, which is already referenced in the article. This source predates Gesta Hungarorum, which used the name "Pazman" by several centuries. Bublimuf ( talk) 09:07, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
As a reminder to all working on this page, if there is a dispute, be sure to discuss it on the talkpage, and not just in edit summaries. -- El on ka 03:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Sources say these families came from Swabia (hence the name Patzmann) or Italy (Karácsonyi's research) and settled in Hungary. I also recommend using
West Slavic or
Slavic, because the term Slovak first appeared in sources in the 15th (or the 16th?) century.
Note: these articles were written by
User:Juro almost word by word based on
a "source" of low quality. The site
Angelfire.com doesn't look like an academic source.
Squash Racket (
talk) 04:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
It is a "bit" more complicated than this constructivist-primordialist debate, since first the term " Nation" should be defined. After it was done, can we start discussing whether they were invented before and during the French revolution by liberalism, or they have existied well before, and for example Alexander the Great and such ancient leaders and certain groups of people (notably Greek city-states) (may) have thinked in (and acted like) a "nation" on their own, well before the Slovaks or Hungarians. -- Rembaoud ( talk) 14:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that this article should be merged into the article Hont-Pázmány and the family's Great Moravian origin could be mentioned as an alternate theory. I think that maintaining two articles on the same subject is unnecessary. And why alternate theory:
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hont-Pázmány article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
All right, let's talk about it. I am no vandal. I looked up the name, and it seems that even Hungarian sources cite it as 'Hunt-Paznan', most notably a 1910 book, which seemsto have been written during the days of the Monarchy. So it should be left this way. But still I would very much appreciate if someone could provide some English info about this new theory concerning the family's origins, because I don't beleive, that it should be stated as obvious. 82.141.174.131 20:57, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Some ambiguities probably due to mis-translation, but it is unclear if or when the Patzzmans became Poznans; at one point it appears they are NOT related, at another that they ARE. Shir-El too 20:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps an RfC would help this article. Squash Racket 11:57, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
Request for Comments going on at Talk:Hunt-Poznan. Please join. Squash Racket 17:05, 15 October 2007 (UTC)
There isn't any contemporary source (diplomats, chronciles, epigraphical monument etc.) for "Poznan". The first Pazman was a Swabian knight who fought with St. Stephen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.120.122.139 ( talk) 11:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Actually, there is. Name "Poznano" (together with Cuntio) is used in the deed of foundation of Pannonhalma abbey from year 1001, which is already referenced in the article. This source predates Gesta Hungarorum, which used the name "Pazman" by several centuries. Bublimuf ( talk) 09:07, 8 September 2017 (UTC)
As a reminder to all working on this page, if there is a dispute, be sure to discuss it on the talkpage, and not just in edit summaries. -- El on ka 03:43, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Sources say these families came from Swabia (hence the name Patzmann) or Italy (Karácsonyi's research) and settled in Hungary. I also recommend using
West Slavic or
Slavic, because the term Slovak first appeared in sources in the 15th (or the 16th?) century.
Note: these articles were written by
User:Juro almost word by word based on
a "source" of low quality. The site
Angelfire.com doesn't look like an academic source.
Squash Racket (
talk) 04:27, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
It is a "bit" more complicated than this constructivist-primordialist debate, since first the term " Nation" should be defined. After it was done, can we start discussing whether they were invented before and during the French revolution by liberalism, or they have existied well before, and for example Alexander the Great and such ancient leaders and certain groups of people (notably Greek city-states) (may) have thinked in (and acted like) a "nation" on their own, well before the Slovaks or Hungarians. -- Rembaoud ( talk) 14:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest that this article should be merged into the article Hont-Pázmány and the family's Great Moravian origin could be mentioned as an alternate theory. I think that maintaining two articles on the same subject is unnecessary. And why alternate theory: