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The vowel harmony section needs a lot of work.
The Venn diagram does not make any sense. The yellow circle is labeled as "Front Rounded", but it includes the unrounded vowels.
The discussion of suffixes should be separated from the discussion of vowel harmony in general, with discussion of <e> and <é> separate from handling of <i> and <í> when selecting suffixes. It is not uncommon for words ending with <e> or <é> to take neutral endings when mixed with back vowels (e.g. zsalugáter, fotel), but I think this generally does not occur with mixed-vowel words whose last vowel is <i> or <í>.
More care should be taken with the claim that front unrounded vowels cannot occur in the same words as back vowels. It's quite common for this to occur in compound words (e.g., önálló, számvevő, tűzoltó), this can occur more frequently than one might think because often a backvowel word combined with a neutral word takes front-rounded case endings: óév is an example, leading to óévről, óévtől, óévből, óévekről, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.59.197.87 ( talk) 22:16, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Umm, some of the last changes by the 219... IP-address have not been correct. The phonetic value of cs and dzs are tS and dZ, not those s/he mentions. Those are not the standard versions, they are considered rather childish. I will correct them next time if there is no argument against it.
I agree. The voiced and voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative(ɕ) does not occur in Hungarian, at least what I remember. I would delete it now, but it is such a pain in the ass to go through that table to find the individual glyphs, you can do it or I will do it later. By the way, who are you? InFairness 08:20, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It was me , sorry :) Correction will follow in a day or two. -- Sicboy 16:40, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
To InFairness: It’d be awesome if the western Wikipedias finally switched to UTF-8 already, wouldn’t it? -- Ralesk 16:43, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the changes and improvement. However I don't aggree with you in the new phonetic equivalents for /o/, and /ö/, because the IPA symbol you use for /o/ is in fact between /a/ and /o/, but linguistic resources, particularly the ones written in English use this symbol for the /a/ (which use isn't correct as well, anyway). Thus I think [o] would be perfect for /o/. The same applies for /ö/, where the œ IPA symbol you use is much a much more opened version for the vowel, compare French oeuvre with Hungarian öv. This œ vowel is used in some Transsylvanian dialects, where tœr means 'he breaks', and tör (short!) means 'dagger' :)! So I recommend [ø] for the phonetic realisation for /ö/. -- Sicboy 16:47, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC) ps sorry for some mistakes
Thank you (both) for your input, and point well taken: Budapest, as far west as it is, is the "standard" dialect, so I guess that we should use their pronunciation. My father is from Bihar, but his parents were from Kassa and Kolozs. I almost certainly pronounce things differently than standard. That having been said, I will say that my ear does not hear ɒ ( turned script "a" as you have it), but ɑ ( script "a") from Hungarians from other areas. I do hear turned script "a" in speakers from certain areas, e.g. from the Tokaj region. I will also agree that the short "a" is a devilishly difficult sound to classify—it really falls between the closest approximations.
I must disagree, however, with the choice of æ for the sound of the short "e" (as listed in the edit summary). It could not be clearer to me that the sound for the short "e" is not æ, but between æ and ɛ. I think what we really need is a new symbol for the sound, because neither of the two really fit. But ɛ is closer to the actual sound than æ. Just think of how someone with a Hungarian accent would pronounce the word "accent": something closer to /ɛksɛnt/ than /æksænt/, showing that / ɛ/ rather than /æ/ is closer to the native Hungarian phoneme.
Also, R. said:
I am not clear what you are referring to in the last part of the sentence: "(the lack of ë in it, for example :P)". Could you elaborate?
InFairness 22:04, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The o sound. It's not lax (never open o according to my ears). My parenthesed comment didn't have anything to do with the article content really, I just mentioned my dialect lacks ë and that's a bit sad. -- Ralesk 15:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Also, after review and discussion with my dad, we can agree that "turned script a" is close enough to the actual sound, though not exactly, of the short "a" to merit its use as opposed to "script a". However, there is still the issue of pronunciation of the short written "ö". Apparently, in Bihar dialect (or whatever it is we actually speak) the short written "ö" is indeed pronounced as [œ] and even, on occasion and depending on word placement, [Œ] (!); whereas the long written "ő" is pronounced with almost an (almost diphtong-like) off-glide [ø:(Y)]. Of course, this is the way that I learned it, and it sounds most natural to me, hence the difference in opinion.
I am glad to see, though, that you did change the IPA for the short written "e" from [æ] to its correct [ɛ].
Now...what about [ɨ]? Nevermind...
Well the ö-problem is not a problem anymore as well, read my first note in this conversation from part: "this œ vowel is used in some Transsylvanian dialects". It seems your dialect is a transition between the Alföld and Mezőség dialect, the latter is the one that has the tendency to open ö to œ, as well as opening o to a, such as magyaró for mogyoró etc. However this tendency (sound change) is complete only in some villages. The ë>e change is also part of this short-mid --> short-low change, but this change has a much wider territory: the Tisza/Northern Plain dialect ( Debrecen, Hajdú-Bihar, etc.), the Mezőség dialect (central Transsylvania, Kolozsvár, ...) the Northeastern dialect ( Sátoraljaújhely, Zemplén county, base of standard), some Székely dialects, and the standard with the Budapest colloquial.
As a Romanian I can tell you that the term "Vlach" is perfectly acceptable when talking about Romanian history or dialectology. 79.112.44.142 ( talk) 09:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
gy is not palatal (IPA [ɟ] -- which sounds almost like cs [tʂ-ligature]), but palatalized ([dʲ]). This is something completely different! The same holds for ny, and I'd be very surprised if it weren't also true for ty, though I haven't been to Hungary for years, so I'd appreciate it if a native speaker could help me out here.
Maybe it should be mentioned that ly was [lʲ] in some earlier age, which explains why it isn't spelled j.
Is there someone who could write about assimilation, intonation (esp questions v statements) and phonotactics (esp consonant clusters), please? Gailtb 06:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
When I converted the tables to wiki syntax, I changed some of the phonetic values per the Handbook of the International Phonetic Association. There it describes ty and gy as being most commonly palatal affricates, but palatal stops in formal speech. Peter Ladefoged has nice pix showing that they truly are dorso-palatal, and not palatalized coronals. As for the postalveolars, the Handbook transcribes them as palato-alveolar [ʃ ʒ], but that doesn't mean much; it could simply be that those are the most convenient symbols to use. Since the authors didn't discuss this point, it shouldn't be counted as evidence as to whether they are like Polish [ʂ ʐ]. (One operating principal of the IPA is that symbols may be used as convenient, so "[c]" is often used for [tʃ].) kwami 07:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The waveforms of affricates are pretty clear, so I doubt the researchers are wrong. What may be happening is that they come off as stops when a word is spoken is isolation, say as a demonstration of how it is to be pronounced, but as an affricate in running speech. That would be hard to hear, because our brains filter out anything that's not supposed to be there, but would be easy to capture in a recording. A lot of English words are like this. For example, him is normally pronounced [im] by people who otherwise pronounce their aitches, but if you told them this, most would insist the [h] is there. kwami 03:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I never said it was substandard. When I was in Hungary, ty and gy sounded like affricates in colloquial speech, but I never picked up much of the language, and my observations are pretty worthless. All I can tell you is what other linguists have said. This is from the IPA Handbook:
The transcriptions of ty and gy in the recorded passage are consistently affricated [cç] and [ɟʝ]. However, the author (Tamás Szende of the Institute of Linguistics, Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Budapest) states that "In formal style /cç, ɟʝ/ are mostly pronounced as palatal stops, i.e. as [c] and [ɟ]."
Ladefoged states,
Note that this would be the case whether they were pure stops or affricated stops. Elsewhere he describes the sounds as being true palatals, and not palatalized alveolars. But in SOWL he never addresses the issue of affrication. kwami 01:12, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, good, but I still pray that we don't use [cç] and [ɟʝ], even if this is the very phonetical fact. Just like the way we don't use [z̻] and things like that for the dental consonants. Hey, do you really want to use [ɒ̜̽] in the section below consistently for the /a/? Sure, it is more precise, the page could mention it once, but I think using these in the Hungarian language page is very much overcomplicated. And I still think that Szende is not right here, there is no stilistic or sociolinguistical difference in pronouncing gy and ty. But maybe I'll be asking around about this question in the Institute of Linguistics. -- Sicboy 22:42, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Open front unrounded vowel gives Hungarian bal as an example for IPA [a]. This seems wrong given the information on this page, which suggests that if the spelling is regular it should be [ɑ] or [ɒ], depending on which of those symbols is right. Also, áll is given as an example for [ɑ] on Open back unrounded vowel. Are these wrong, or are there some complications not described on this page?-- JHJ 17:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Are there any vowels which cannot occur at the end of a Hungarian word? -- 84.61.41.214 08:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Short <ö> (/ø/) "cannot occur" at the end of native Hungarian words and short o, ü (IPA /y/) & u are quite rare. -- 194.152.154.2 19:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Please note: "méhhel" is absolutely incorrect in Hungarian. As it is mentioned, "h" in case of "méh" (bee) is not pronounced. In this case the general rule of changing the "v" of -val/-vel ending into the last consonant of the word (for example asztal+val -> asztallal; table, with table) have an exception. As the ending h is not pronounced in méh, the -val/-vel ending is simple added as the word ended with a vowel: méhvel. -- 93.32.53.125 ( talk) 19:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I completely agree with mëntëk "you all go" and mëntek "they went", but can someone confirm that he/she pronounces "I save" as mentëk? I have never ever heard this before (I use mëntëk for "I save", mëntesz for "you save" etc.).
(I do not want to dispute the "mentek" that means "mentesek" because I do not use the "mentek" form. But I would probably read it as either mëntëk or mentëk because I use mëntës for the singular of "mentesek" but I heard some people say mentës.)
It is unfortunate that many people say that they can not hear the difference between e and ë, even though they use the two sounds correctly. So I may not get too many replies for my question, but please, if you do hear the difference, tell us: Which pronunciation do you use? -- BarroColorado 18:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
No other opinions? From someone who actually uses the two sounds? -- BarroColorado 08:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
See this at 3:00 how Imre Sinkovits uses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT4CKxZWpeg.
I always perceived 'a' as unrounded, so Wikipedia confused me a little (and for a moment let's forget the 12 years of grammar lessons and the official spelling guide, also describing it as rounded :P). It is really rounded, but with exolabial (protruded) rounding (see roundedness). As for ö, I think it's closer to œ. BTW, I've searched for a vowel chart, but apart from the Wikipedia one, I found only this one: http://www.yudit.org/ipa/hun_vowel_IPA.jpg Frigo 12:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I've added ŋ to the table, since that phoneme is pronounced when /n/ is followed by /k/ or /g/, like in "hang" which is [hɔŋg] ('sound, voice') or "sonka" [ʃoŋkɔ] ('ham'). I added some other missing consonants as well. I also changed the "ddzs" example at the geminated graphemes, since there is no such letter. Dzs is pronounced long in itself and it is in no case geminated. -- Tarcsay Zoltán ( talk) 23:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this writer uses <ɔ> for the Hungarian short "a" - a representation which doesn't appear elsewhere on this page. This is, however, the symbol which I'd be inclined to use myself, after nearly 4 years of listening to Hungarians, because although the short "a" is highly variable, it most commomnly sounds to me like a shorter version of the English vowel /ɔ:/ (which occurs, for example, in the word "word" /wɔ:d/).
<ɒ> strikes me as a poor choice. This symbol is used to represent the vowel in "hot" as spoken by a British speaker. It is not a phoneme in any American dialect that I've heard of, so it's not easy for Americans to understand. Moreover, I can assure you that using the British [ɒ] for the Hungarian short "a" causes confusion - to most Hungarians it sounds more like the short "o".
Nyelvmark ( talk) 02:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
"word" is not pronounced as /wɔ:d/ in any dialect I'm familiar with. That's a common Hunglish mispronunciation ;) It's more like /wəːd/. The vowel in the English "word" is very different from both Hungarian a and /ɔ/ (which are distinct from each other). After listening to the recordings for /o/ and /ɔ/ here on WP, I'd say Hungarian o is more like /ɔ/ and ó is more like /oː/. But the vowel spectrum is continuous, so it's not really possible to give a precise description in terms of IPA symbols. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.177.44.72 ( talk) 16:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to add a citation in Wikipedia just now (only have a moment, and it will take me longer since I'll need to learn how to do it), but I thought I'd point out that the devoicing of <j> in imperatives is like 'kapj' [kɒpç] is available in a book: Unkarin kielioppi [1], by Márta Csepregi. I'm not sure what her reference is, but I'm assuming that she may know what she's talking about by her name. The example in this book was written in semi-orthography/semi- FUT on page 27. Either someone else can add this, or I can later when I've got a little more time. :) Pyry ( talk) 15:19, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
The vowel í can be high or low, like víz-vizek or híd-hidak.
I am quite sure that as the consonants table stands, the palatals are rendered with the incorrect IPA symbols and link to articles with sound files that are misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.107.90.200 ( talk) 12:26, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Pronounciation of:
kisszerű,
tilos zóna,
parázs zene
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The vowel harmony section needs a lot of work.
The Venn diagram does not make any sense. The yellow circle is labeled as "Front Rounded", but it includes the unrounded vowels.
The discussion of suffixes should be separated from the discussion of vowel harmony in general, with discussion of <e> and <é> separate from handling of <i> and <í> when selecting suffixes. It is not uncommon for words ending with <e> or <é> to take neutral endings when mixed with back vowels (e.g. zsalugáter, fotel), but I think this generally does not occur with mixed-vowel words whose last vowel is <i> or <í>.
More care should be taken with the claim that front unrounded vowels cannot occur in the same words as back vowels. It's quite common for this to occur in compound words (e.g., önálló, számvevő, tűzoltó), this can occur more frequently than one might think because often a backvowel word combined with a neutral word takes front-rounded case endings: óév is an example, leading to óévről, óévtől, óévből, óévekről, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.59.197.87 ( talk) 22:16, 23 May 2023 (UTC)
Umm, some of the last changes by the 219... IP-address have not been correct. The phonetic value of cs and dzs are tS and dZ, not those s/he mentions. Those are not the standard versions, they are considered rather childish. I will correct them next time if there is no argument against it.
I agree. The voiced and voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative(ɕ) does not occur in Hungarian, at least what I remember. I would delete it now, but it is such a pain in the ass to go through that table to find the individual glyphs, you can do it or I will do it later. By the way, who are you? InFairness 08:20, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It was me , sorry :) Correction will follow in a day or two. -- Sicboy 16:40, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC)
To InFairness: It’d be awesome if the western Wikipedias finally switched to UTF-8 already, wouldn’t it? -- Ralesk 16:43, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for the changes and improvement. However I don't aggree with you in the new phonetic equivalents for /o/, and /ö/, because the IPA symbol you use for /o/ is in fact between /a/ and /o/, but linguistic resources, particularly the ones written in English use this symbol for the /a/ (which use isn't correct as well, anyway). Thus I think [o] would be perfect for /o/. The same applies for /ö/, where the œ IPA symbol you use is much a much more opened version for the vowel, compare French oeuvre with Hungarian öv. This œ vowel is used in some Transsylvanian dialects, where tœr means 'he breaks', and tör (short!) means 'dagger' :)! So I recommend [ø] for the phonetic realisation for /ö/. -- Sicboy 16:47, 2005 Jun 2 (UTC) ps sorry for some mistakes
Thank you (both) for your input, and point well taken: Budapest, as far west as it is, is the "standard" dialect, so I guess that we should use their pronunciation. My father is from Bihar, but his parents were from Kassa and Kolozs. I almost certainly pronounce things differently than standard. That having been said, I will say that my ear does not hear ɒ ( turned script "a" as you have it), but ɑ ( script "a") from Hungarians from other areas. I do hear turned script "a" in speakers from certain areas, e.g. from the Tokaj region. I will also agree that the short "a" is a devilishly difficult sound to classify—it really falls between the closest approximations.
I must disagree, however, with the choice of æ for the sound of the short "e" (as listed in the edit summary). It could not be clearer to me that the sound for the short "e" is not æ, but between æ and ɛ. I think what we really need is a new symbol for the sound, because neither of the two really fit. But ɛ is closer to the actual sound than æ. Just think of how someone with a Hungarian accent would pronounce the word "accent": something closer to /ɛksɛnt/ than /æksænt/, showing that / ɛ/ rather than /æ/ is closer to the native Hungarian phoneme.
Also, R. said:
I am not clear what you are referring to in the last part of the sentence: "(the lack of ë in it, for example :P)". Could you elaborate?
InFairness 22:04, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The o sound. It's not lax (never open o according to my ears). My parenthesed comment didn't have anything to do with the article content really, I just mentioned my dialect lacks ë and that's a bit sad. -- Ralesk 15:45, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Also, after review and discussion with my dad, we can agree that "turned script a" is close enough to the actual sound, though not exactly, of the short "a" to merit its use as opposed to "script a". However, there is still the issue of pronunciation of the short written "ö". Apparently, in Bihar dialect (or whatever it is we actually speak) the short written "ö" is indeed pronounced as [œ] and even, on occasion and depending on word placement, [Œ] (!); whereas the long written "ő" is pronounced with almost an (almost diphtong-like) off-glide [ø:(Y)]. Of course, this is the way that I learned it, and it sounds most natural to me, hence the difference in opinion.
I am glad to see, though, that you did change the IPA for the short written "e" from [æ] to its correct [ɛ].
Now...what about [ɨ]? Nevermind...
Well the ö-problem is not a problem anymore as well, read my first note in this conversation from part: "this œ vowel is used in some Transsylvanian dialects". It seems your dialect is a transition between the Alföld and Mezőség dialect, the latter is the one that has the tendency to open ö to œ, as well as opening o to a, such as magyaró for mogyoró etc. However this tendency (sound change) is complete only in some villages. The ë>e change is also part of this short-mid --> short-low change, but this change has a much wider territory: the Tisza/Northern Plain dialect ( Debrecen, Hajdú-Bihar, etc.), the Mezőség dialect (central Transsylvania, Kolozsvár, ...) the Northeastern dialect ( Sátoraljaújhely, Zemplén county, base of standard), some Székely dialects, and the standard with the Budapest colloquial.
As a Romanian I can tell you that the term "Vlach" is perfectly acceptable when talking about Romanian history or dialectology. 79.112.44.142 ( talk) 09:27, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
gy is not palatal (IPA [ɟ] -- which sounds almost like cs [tʂ-ligature]), but palatalized ([dʲ]). This is something completely different! The same holds for ny, and I'd be very surprised if it weren't also true for ty, though I haven't been to Hungary for years, so I'd appreciate it if a native speaker could help me out here.
Maybe it should be mentioned that ly was [lʲ] in some earlier age, which explains why it isn't spelled j.
Is there someone who could write about assimilation, intonation (esp questions v statements) and phonotactics (esp consonant clusters), please? Gailtb 06:47, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
When I converted the tables to wiki syntax, I changed some of the phonetic values per the Handbook of the International Phonetic Association. There it describes ty and gy as being most commonly palatal affricates, but palatal stops in formal speech. Peter Ladefoged has nice pix showing that they truly are dorso-palatal, and not palatalized coronals. As for the postalveolars, the Handbook transcribes them as palato-alveolar [ʃ ʒ], but that doesn't mean much; it could simply be that those are the most convenient symbols to use. Since the authors didn't discuss this point, it shouldn't be counted as evidence as to whether they are like Polish [ʂ ʐ]. (One operating principal of the IPA is that symbols may be used as convenient, so "[c]" is often used for [tʃ].) kwami 07:40, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The waveforms of affricates are pretty clear, so I doubt the researchers are wrong. What may be happening is that they come off as stops when a word is spoken is isolation, say as a demonstration of how it is to be pronounced, but as an affricate in running speech. That would be hard to hear, because our brains filter out anything that's not supposed to be there, but would be easy to capture in a recording. A lot of English words are like this. For example, him is normally pronounced [im] by people who otherwise pronounce their aitches, but if you told them this, most would insist the [h] is there. kwami 03:02, 31 October 2005 (UTC)
I never said it was substandard. When I was in Hungary, ty and gy sounded like affricates in colloquial speech, but I never picked up much of the language, and my observations are pretty worthless. All I can tell you is what other linguists have said. This is from the IPA Handbook:
The transcriptions of ty and gy in the recorded passage are consistently affricated [cç] and [ɟʝ]. However, the author (Tamás Szende of the Institute of Linguistics, Hungarian Academy of Sciences, Budapest) states that "In formal style /cç, ɟʝ/ are mostly pronounced as palatal stops, i.e. as [c] and [ɟ]."
Ladefoged states,
Note that this would be the case whether they were pure stops or affricated stops. Elsewhere he describes the sounds as being true palatals, and not palatalized alveolars. But in SOWL he never addresses the issue of affrication. kwami 01:12, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
Okay, good, but I still pray that we don't use [cç] and [ɟʝ], even if this is the very phonetical fact. Just like the way we don't use [z̻] and things like that for the dental consonants. Hey, do you really want to use [ɒ̜̽] in the section below consistently for the /a/? Sure, it is more precise, the page could mention it once, but I think using these in the Hungarian language page is very much overcomplicated. And I still think that Szende is not right here, there is no stilistic or sociolinguistical difference in pronouncing gy and ty. But maybe I'll be asking around about this question in the Institute of Linguistics. -- Sicboy 22:42, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Open front unrounded vowel gives Hungarian bal as an example for IPA [a]. This seems wrong given the information on this page, which suggests that if the spelling is regular it should be [ɑ] or [ɒ], depending on which of those symbols is right. Also, áll is given as an example for [ɑ] on Open back unrounded vowel. Are these wrong, or are there some complications not described on this page?-- JHJ 17:48, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Are there any vowels which cannot occur at the end of a Hungarian word? -- 84.61.41.214 08:43, 7 May 2006 (UTC)
Short <ö> (/ø/) "cannot occur" at the end of native Hungarian words and short o, ü (IPA /y/) & u are quite rare. -- 194.152.154.2 19:10, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Please note: "méhhel" is absolutely incorrect in Hungarian. As it is mentioned, "h" in case of "méh" (bee) is not pronounced. In this case the general rule of changing the "v" of -val/-vel ending into the last consonant of the word (for example asztal+val -> asztallal; table, with table) have an exception. As the ending h is not pronounced in méh, the -val/-vel ending is simple added as the word ended with a vowel: méhvel. -- 93.32.53.125 ( talk) 19:51, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I completely agree with mëntëk "you all go" and mëntek "they went", but can someone confirm that he/she pronounces "I save" as mentëk? I have never ever heard this before (I use mëntëk for "I save", mëntesz for "you save" etc.).
(I do not want to dispute the "mentek" that means "mentesek" because I do not use the "mentek" form. But I would probably read it as either mëntëk or mentëk because I use mëntës for the singular of "mentesek" but I heard some people say mentës.)
It is unfortunate that many people say that they can not hear the difference between e and ë, even though they use the two sounds correctly. So I may not get too many replies for my question, but please, if you do hear the difference, tell us: Which pronunciation do you use? -- BarroColorado 18:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
No other opinions? From someone who actually uses the two sounds? -- BarroColorado 08:31, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
See this at 3:00 how Imre Sinkovits uses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT4CKxZWpeg.
I always perceived 'a' as unrounded, so Wikipedia confused me a little (and for a moment let's forget the 12 years of grammar lessons and the official spelling guide, also describing it as rounded :P). It is really rounded, but with exolabial (protruded) rounding (see roundedness). As for ö, I think it's closer to œ. BTW, I've searched for a vowel chart, but apart from the Wikipedia one, I found only this one: http://www.yudit.org/ipa/hun_vowel_IPA.jpg Frigo 12:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
I've added ŋ to the table, since that phoneme is pronounced when /n/ is followed by /k/ or /g/, like in "hang" which is [hɔŋg] ('sound, voice') or "sonka" [ʃoŋkɔ] ('ham'). I added some other missing consonants as well. I also changed the "ddzs" example at the geminated graphemes, since there is no such letter. Dzs is pronounced long in itself and it is in no case geminated. -- Tarcsay Zoltán ( talk) 23:32, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I notice that this writer uses <ɔ> for the Hungarian short "a" - a representation which doesn't appear elsewhere on this page. This is, however, the symbol which I'd be inclined to use myself, after nearly 4 years of listening to Hungarians, because although the short "a" is highly variable, it most commomnly sounds to me like a shorter version of the English vowel /ɔ:/ (which occurs, for example, in the word "word" /wɔ:d/).
<ɒ> strikes me as a poor choice. This symbol is used to represent the vowel in "hot" as spoken by a British speaker. It is not a phoneme in any American dialect that I've heard of, so it's not easy for Americans to understand. Moreover, I can assure you that using the British [ɒ] for the Hungarian short "a" causes confusion - to most Hungarians it sounds more like the short "o".
Nyelvmark ( talk) 02:57, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
"word" is not pronounced as /wɔ:d/ in any dialect I'm familiar with. That's a common Hunglish mispronunciation ;) It's more like /wəːd/. The vowel in the English "word" is very different from both Hungarian a and /ɔ/ (which are distinct from each other). After listening to the recordings for /o/ and /ɔ/ here on WP, I'd say Hungarian o is more like /ɔ/ and ó is more like /oː/. But the vowel spectrum is continuous, so it's not really possible to give a precise description in terms of IPA symbols. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.177.44.72 ( talk) 16:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not going to add a citation in Wikipedia just now (only have a moment, and it will take me longer since I'll need to learn how to do it), but I thought I'd point out that the devoicing of <j> in imperatives is like 'kapj' [kɒpç] is available in a book: Unkarin kielioppi [1], by Márta Csepregi. I'm not sure what her reference is, but I'm assuming that she may know what she's talking about by her name. The example in this book was written in semi-orthography/semi- FUT on page 27. Either someone else can add this, or I can later when I've got a little more time. :) Pyry ( talk) 15:19, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
The vowel í can be high or low, like víz-vizek or híd-hidak.
I am quite sure that as the consonants table stands, the palatals are rendered with the incorrect IPA symbols and link to articles with sound files that are misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.107.90.200 ( talk) 12:26, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Pronounciation of:
kisszerű,
tilos zóna,
parázs zene