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Archive 1 |
I am currently exploring how to wikify articles properly, so it would be great if someone could voice their opinion on what else should be improved or if this is okay. I have not yet removed the wikify template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aiyana ( talk • contribs) 15:21, 4 June 2005 (UTC)
Whats the difference between Humid subtropical climate, and subtropical climate.-- 67.141.107.247 22:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The climate of southeastern Pennsylvania and southern New Jersey is markedly different from those of central, northern, and western Pennsylvania -- decidely warmer, and more similar to that of northern Virginia.
Some climate maps put the Cfa/Dfa line north of new York City; some put it south of New York City. None put it south of Philadelphia. -- Paul from Michigan 04:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't "subtropical" mean "BELOW the tropic"? How can places well ABOVE the tropics be characterized as "subtropical"? Why not simply "tropical"? Tmangray 22:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Milan in Italy does have summers warmer than 22 degr Celsius, the coldest winter month has an average of 1 degr C and there is, unlike most of the mediterranean, frequent summer precipitation. See here. Whether Britannica labels the climate continental or not does not say very much; many of the areas in the United States mentioned in the article could be labeled continental as well. The temperature distinction between the humid continental and humid subtropical is the -3 degr C (0 C in the US) in the coldest month. The label subtropical might seem strange for a location where there might be snowing in winter, but that goes for many locations in the US and China as well...There is an area from the Po valley in northern Italy and in parts of the Balkan which fullfills all criteria given in the article. Orcaborealis 10:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Source for summer precipitation here. Orcaborealis 10:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I use the words I find appropriate, and ridiculous is the definition of the comparision that you want to make. You simply want to inform the readers that Milan (or Ljubljana by the maps you've shown) have the same climate of Northern Taiwan, Chekiang or others areas that have average annual temperatures higher than 17ºC when the average annual temperature for Milan is 11ºC [1]. This map ( http://www.worldbook.com/wb/images/content_spotlight/climates/europe_climate.gif) is simply wrong! It's totally insane to state that the Trentino-Alto Adige, the Friuli-Venezia Giulia (in Italy), the western part of Slovenia and even Sarajevo have a humid subtropical climate. It's totally wrong and there's no reliable data that could back up this awfully done map. Take a look again in the map and you will see that all the eastern Italian Alps range is classified as "humid subtropical"...it's a joke, isn't it?
You're simply saying that Trento or Udine have the same climate as Taipei or Jacksonville...it's really out of the question and it demonstrates a total lack of knowledge about the climate in this region of the world.
This map ( http://www3.shastacollege.edu/dscollon/images/Maps-Images/world_climate_map.jpg) is another example of bad work. It states that Pittsburgh has the same climate of Brisbane ( Australia) or even Hong Kong! So, these maps are not even a remote reliable source, and to find it out it's enough to check and compare just a pair of cities with completely different climates and average temperatures.
This map ( http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.ac.at/pdfs/kottek_et_al_2006_A1.pdf) is little more accurate and puts Milan as Cfb. Nevertheless, it's really useless to use these letters to define the climate of a city. Milan, Trento, Ljubljana, Sarajevo or Pittsburgh will never be subtropical cities. Dantadd 15:43, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, many maps use the C/D line at -3C (27F) rather than 0C (32F). CrazyC83 22:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
How about humid mesothermal? Oh, and we should use -3C as the c/d line because Koppen did. If the climate was called humid mesothermal, no one would complain about Milan and other places, such as New York City. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Press olive, win oil ( talk • contribs) 23:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone prove that Charleston and Roanoke is is in the Humid Continental climate zone? Those cities are in the mountains, but they are not high enough to make a huge difference. The coldest areas of West Virginia and Virginia are in the Allegheny Mountain range. Neither city is located in that area. The Punk 08:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Dallas isn't in the core reach of the climate range as is listed in the passage. 74.128.200.135 01:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The original map was better and more accurate, until Strongerbad changed it by extending the red "truly subtropical" climate to the western Chesapeke shore, claiming that it is truly subtropical because the yearly average low exceeds 50°F.
Maybe for the Inner Harbor, a very small but well known part of Baltimore may have that due to its extreme closeness to water and intense heat island, but not because its a subtropical climate. A better example of the area's climate would be BWI which mind you is SOUTH of the city, [here http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/BWI:9] are the averages. Take the yearly average of the lows, and it is 44.25°! Well below the "truly subtropical" zone that the map shows. Not impressed? Let's go farther south and take [Annapolis http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/USMD0010], right on the shore of the bay. 45.1°, not "over 50". So I propose returning to the original map, and if you must be technical and picky, then shade one or two pixels of Baltimore red, and leave the rest as the original. Extending the red up to Baltimore is very inaccurate Faz90 02:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I restored a section removed by recent IP editors (one of whom vandalised an article on my watchlist) but I don't know anything about the topic, so if any of these removals was valid in the opinion of a regular editor, feel free to re-make it. Orderinchaos 22:26, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
A large part of South America has what constitutes a humid subtropical climate. Southern Brazil, Northeastern Argentina and parts of Uruguay and Paraguay have regions that clearly fall into this category. It seems preposterous that the section would be taken out of the article, except of course if improvements were being made, which seems reasonable as the section was needing some improvement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.4.24.9 ( talk) 22:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Why does there need to be citition for Cincinnati but not the other cities listed? It is clearly in a transition zone and a simple search and glance at a USDA zone map will evidence this, also, check out the range maps for indicator plants such as magnilia and so on. I'm removing the citation needed for Cincinnati because it is no more needed than any other city listed. here's one just from a brief search: http://www.answers.com/topic/subtropics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.173.226.236 ( talk) 19:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Most of Bergen County, New Jersey is in the debatable zone (between Cfa and Dfa). http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/oakland.htm and http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ramsey.htm proves that these two towns are just inside this zone. However, idcide doesn't have a weather page for Mahwah, the only town in Bergen County north of Oakland and Ramsey. http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ft-lee.htm proves that Fort Lee is just outside the debated zone, in the humid subtropical climate's vicinity. Its funny how the -3C line lies right on or near the Bergen/Passiac/New York State border. http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ringwood.htm shows that Ringwood, which borders Mahwah to the northwest (well, really west and a bit north) has a coldest month average between 0C and -3C. Mahwah probably does as well. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 19:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Being interested in the climate of Zambia I checked Wikipedia and stumbeled on this map in Wikipedia. [ [5]] It classifies the Zambian climate and most of the subropical African countries as Cwa, here it states that the Humid subtropical climate is limited to the South African east coast. Maybe somebody with expertise can look into it because one page should be corrected I think. I think the African map is correct myself, because subtropical would mean adjacent to tropical regions.(like Tropical>Cwa> Dessertlike>Mediterranean>Temperate) To me it makes no sense describing any climate in Europe as subtropical Viridiflavus ( talk) 21:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
You were using the Koppen f for tropical rainforests (ie. Af not Cf). You ignored the definition of Cwa altogether. You might want to change the citation of the Times Atlas of the World since it's not easily verified and there are many correct definitions of Cfa and Cwa on the web, including Wikipedia Köppen_climate_classification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.39.46 ( talk) 04:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Why is there debate over NYC? I know there is but why? It's cfa by Koppen, so why would someone change the definition? Is Los Angeles on the Mediterranean? No, but it has a Mediterranean climate. Is Cape Cod on the west coast? No, but it has a Marine West Coast climate. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 22:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I understand. I live in the suburbs of New York City and the coldest month average between 0 and -3C there. Snow does usually melt quickly. Oh, by the way, earlier this week there were 100+ highs in New York City. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 19:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Koppen definition is more widely used than a definition used by "someone else." Press olive, win oil ( talk) 23:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC).
True, but on the other hand, the Koppen system is most widely used and I can't understand that Minneapolis and Northern Arkansas (also debatable) are in the same zone. I don't truly understand how Northern Arkansas could be continental. I also don't truly understand why a coastal area would be called "continental." Oh, and some people- meteorologists- can't even fathom a minor thing like that? That's horrible and ridicilous if you ask me. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and if you look at Koppen climate classification, you'll see a map that correctly pictures, according to Koppen, New York City and Boston in the cfa zone. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, they can grow in Toronto, which has colder winters than Boston, as proven here: [ [7]]. Also, winters on the east coast tend to be moist, rarely cold and dry, right? Anyway, Toronto has a humid continental climate, so even it could then be considered "subtropical?" I don't think so because Koppen's rules naturally should have some exceptions. I think New York and Boston should definitely be considered subtropical. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, [ [8]] says that the needle palm does grow in New York City but not Boston, matching up with what you said. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 01:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and signs posts by using four of these:~ Press olive, win oil ( talk) 01:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm also taking a wikibreak. Check my talk page for details. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm off my break. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 17:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, I think the talk page for either humid subtropical (this page) or humid continental climates contains something saying the C/D line matches up with where three crops can be grown in two years. Do you have any idea if this is true? Press olive, win oil ( talk) 12:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
It's on the Humid Continental talk page. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 12:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I read in the article: "This climate type covers a broad category of climates, and the term "subtropical" may be a misnomer for the winter climate in the cooler areas within this category". Very true. I would simply call this climate "sinic" as Köppen did in his works (check this page).-- Carnby ( talk) 19:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
When it comes to the coldest month, I don't understand why people use the freezing line(0C) to determine between humid subtropical & humid continental when it snows annually in the northern reaches of the humid subtropical zone in the winter. Whether some areas are not what some people would consider "subtropical"(SUBtropical being the key word here) is irrelevant. The persistent snowline(-3C) should be used to determine a humid continental climate where it's cold enough for snow to fall persistently as opposed to the northern reaches of the humid subtropical climate where it gets cold enough to snow, albeit less and generally inconsistently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.19.51 ( talk) 14:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. The inner New York metropolitan area has a cfa climate according to Koppen's classification. Look at the "Why?" section. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC) Bergen and Passaic counties have a cfa climate, while sussex county is dfb. The dfa/cfb (don't know which) range is negligible. Northern Westchester is dfa, while southern Westchester is cfa. Northern Rockland is dfa, while southern Rockland is cfa. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
This article used to have climate graphs of places with humid subtropical climates (one each from each of the main parts of the world they are found in) but someone has replaced them with a list of places situated in this climate zone. Why is this? In my opinion it is far less informative now, as the graphs provided an easily interpreted summary of the main features of this climate, while the wiki links to a bunch of cities are going to tell us more about those cities' histories, landmarks, economies etc, and not necessarily much about the climate. Booshank ( talk) 23:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
I've re-added the climate charts as I feel they are useful. Most other climate zone articles have them and no-one explained why they were removed. Booshank ( talk) 22:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
As per this section of an FA [9], and the article on Koppen classification, the Gangetic plains and North East India has a sub-tropical climate. Can the map be corrected to show this ? Thanks. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a big part of Buenos Aires province whose summers are not warm enough to be considered part of the Humid Subtropical Climate. (They have an Oceanic Temperate climate) I think it should be removed from the map immediately. The same things happens in some parts of Southern Brazil (but in this case, it's less notorious) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.139.179.175 ( talk) 01:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Skopje in Macedonia has a climate that is within the definition (even if the city article does not say this). The warmest months - July and August - has a 24-hr average of 23 Centigrades and the coldes month has a 24-hr average of 0.2 centigrades (thus well above -3). There is no dry season (as this article states: at least one third as much precipitation in dryest summer month as in the wettest winter month). See this link for precititation and this link for monthly temperatures. Skopje thus can be added to the list. The other European cities, such as Varna, also fulfills the definition for being humid subtropical. Orcaborealis ( talk) 13:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Even though temperature-wise places like Constanta, Romania; Varna, Bulgaria and Sevastopol, Ukraine do meet the requirements for a "humid subtropical climate", when it comes to precipitation, they actually fit into a semi-arid (steppe) climate. I have heard that in Romania, the entire Black Sea Coast, which averages about 400mm or less annual precipitation, has been included into the BS classification, perhaps BSk climate because of its location in the temperate zone and relatively cold winters (blizzards are common even though the coldest month is just above 0C-32F). I am not exactly sure about areas outside Romania. Also, the Sochi, Russia, area receives a lot of precipitation, so it's not the subject of this discussion. However, there is a region in South-Western Romania, in Banat, that does seem to fit into the "humid subtropical climate"; in fact, I have seen it represented as such on some climate maps. Here's a link for some reference, though I can't find any official data regarding temperatures: http://www.ici.ro/romania/en/turism/b_herculane.html -- IoanC ( talk) 10:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Belgrade and Serbia have this climate yet they are considered oceanic!?
Belgrade has july and august average above 22, 22,3. 21,8 is old average and soon will be out of use, not to mention that this is the average of one of the coldest periods in twentieth century 1961-1990, 1971-2000 averages have shown that the average july temperature is 22,3, while 1981-2010 averages will show even wqrmer averages. January average is 0,5.
Precipitation is typical for Humid subtropical climates . Wettest months are may and june.
Now the area I am talking about (Belgrade and Serbia) belong in Humid subtropical climate on every Koppen map including University of Melbourne map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.165.179.82 ( talk) 14:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Can Some-one tell me how frequently droughts occur per year in a Humid-tropical place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.59.252 ( talk) 04:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
In the Koppen-Geiger climate classification there is no definition like this: 'Cfa' climatic type = humid subtropical. But exist this definition: Cfa = humid temperate. And the type 'Cfa' is similar to 'Cfb' and is different than 'Cwa'. So this article is totally wrong because, about 'Cfa' climatic type 'humid subtropical', it confuse the Koppen-Geiger climate classification with the Koppen-Trewartha classification which has specific parameters, different than Koppen-Geiger, to classify Cfa. http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr_oa/c059p001.pdf
Someone should put also only one source that claims the opposite, If exist. Otherwise the article must be modified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.51.230 ( talk) 19:54, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
This article is totally confused because of errors of interpretation and approximate informations. Moreover all sources currently reported in this article (the few still active) don't wrote anything on humid subtropical climate. In fact:
Therefore, the article must strictly follow what the reliable sources say, and it must be modified:
How can regions with well pronounced winters fall under the category of being a sub-tropical climate? Although the preset definition does hold in regions of the mid-south (United States), the term almost angers me by the fact that there are no official transition zones. I simply state this without experience in this subject though I believe my point is relevant.
If a Sub-Tropical climate receives at least 10 inches or 25 centimeters of snow a year and annually experiences temperatures below -15 Celsius or 5 Fahrenheit how can it be given the name of being sub-tropical? Is the freezing point as an average temperature during one month of the year really a good demarcation line for a term referring to areas that are almost tropical?
There is a clear difference in climate compared to the warmer 2/3rds of the defined region. This is most obvious in the flora. Most of the forests in the upper 1/3rd of the sub-tropical zone are vast hardwood deciduous forests where southern pines are not dominant. It would seem that a better approach would be to include a Mesothermal Climate. I find a better classification is in the Trewartha climate classification. Is this not a reasonable point? -- Protector of Truth 56 ( talk) 15:14, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I am currently exploring how to wikify articles properly, so it would be great if someone could voice their opinion on what else should be improved or if this is okay. I have not yet removed the wikify template. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aiyana ( talk • contribs) 15:21, 4 June 2005 (UTC)
Whats the difference between Humid subtropical climate, and subtropical climate.-- 67.141.107.247 22:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The climate of southeastern Pennsylvania and southern New Jersey is markedly different from those of central, northern, and western Pennsylvania -- decidely warmer, and more similar to that of northern Virginia.
Some climate maps put the Cfa/Dfa line north of new York City; some put it south of New York City. None put it south of Philadelphia. -- Paul from Michigan 04:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't "subtropical" mean "BELOW the tropic"? How can places well ABOVE the tropics be characterized as "subtropical"? Why not simply "tropical"? Tmangray 22:06, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Milan in Italy does have summers warmer than 22 degr Celsius, the coldest winter month has an average of 1 degr C and there is, unlike most of the mediterranean, frequent summer precipitation. See here. Whether Britannica labels the climate continental or not does not say very much; many of the areas in the United States mentioned in the article could be labeled continental as well. The temperature distinction between the humid continental and humid subtropical is the -3 degr C (0 C in the US) in the coldest month. The label subtropical might seem strange for a location where there might be snowing in winter, but that goes for many locations in the US and China as well...There is an area from the Po valley in northern Italy and in parts of the Balkan which fullfills all criteria given in the article. Orcaborealis 10:15, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Source for summer precipitation here. Orcaborealis 10:17, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I use the words I find appropriate, and ridiculous is the definition of the comparision that you want to make. You simply want to inform the readers that Milan (or Ljubljana by the maps you've shown) have the same climate of Northern Taiwan, Chekiang or others areas that have average annual temperatures higher than 17ºC when the average annual temperature for Milan is 11ºC [1]. This map ( http://www.worldbook.com/wb/images/content_spotlight/climates/europe_climate.gif) is simply wrong! It's totally insane to state that the Trentino-Alto Adige, the Friuli-Venezia Giulia (in Italy), the western part of Slovenia and even Sarajevo have a humid subtropical climate. It's totally wrong and there's no reliable data that could back up this awfully done map. Take a look again in the map and you will see that all the eastern Italian Alps range is classified as "humid subtropical"...it's a joke, isn't it?
You're simply saying that Trento or Udine have the same climate as Taipei or Jacksonville...it's really out of the question and it demonstrates a total lack of knowledge about the climate in this region of the world.
This map ( http://www3.shastacollege.edu/dscollon/images/Maps-Images/world_climate_map.jpg) is another example of bad work. It states that Pittsburgh has the same climate of Brisbane ( Australia) or even Hong Kong! So, these maps are not even a remote reliable source, and to find it out it's enough to check and compare just a pair of cities with completely different climates and average temperatures.
This map ( http://koeppen-geiger.vu-wien.ac.at/pdfs/kottek_et_al_2006_A1.pdf) is little more accurate and puts Milan as Cfb. Nevertheless, it's really useless to use these letters to define the climate of a city. Milan, Trento, Ljubljana, Sarajevo or Pittsburgh will never be subtropical cities. Dantadd 15:43, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
Also, many maps use the C/D line at -3C (27F) rather than 0C (32F). CrazyC83 22:02, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
How about humid mesothermal? Oh, and we should use -3C as the c/d line because Koppen did. If the climate was called humid mesothermal, no one would complain about Milan and other places, such as New York City. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Press olive, win oil ( talk • contribs) 23:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Can anyone prove that Charleston and Roanoke is is in the Humid Continental climate zone? Those cities are in the mountains, but they are not high enough to make a huge difference. The coldest areas of West Virginia and Virginia are in the Allegheny Mountain range. Neither city is located in that area. The Punk 08:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Dallas isn't in the core reach of the climate range as is listed in the passage. 74.128.200.135 01:25, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
The original map was better and more accurate, until Strongerbad changed it by extending the red "truly subtropical" climate to the western Chesapeke shore, claiming that it is truly subtropical because the yearly average low exceeds 50°F.
Maybe for the Inner Harbor, a very small but well known part of Baltimore may have that due to its extreme closeness to water and intense heat island, but not because its a subtropical climate. A better example of the area's climate would be BWI which mind you is SOUTH of the city, [here http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/BWI:9] are the averages. Take the yearly average of the lows, and it is 44.25°! Well below the "truly subtropical" zone that the map shows. Not impressed? Let's go farther south and take [Annapolis http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/businesstraveler/wxclimatology/monthly/USMD0010], right on the shore of the bay. 45.1°, not "over 50". So I propose returning to the original map, and if you must be technical and picky, then shade one or two pixels of Baltimore red, and leave the rest as the original. Extending the red up to Baltimore is very inaccurate Faz90 02:29, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
I restored a section removed by recent IP editors (one of whom vandalised an article on my watchlist) but I don't know anything about the topic, so if any of these removals was valid in the opinion of a regular editor, feel free to re-make it. Orderinchaos 22:26, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
A large part of South America has what constitutes a humid subtropical climate. Southern Brazil, Northeastern Argentina and parts of Uruguay and Paraguay have regions that clearly fall into this category. It seems preposterous that the section would be taken out of the article, except of course if improvements were being made, which seems reasonable as the section was needing some improvement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.4.24.9 ( talk) 22:12, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Why does there need to be citition for Cincinnati but not the other cities listed? It is clearly in a transition zone and a simple search and glance at a USDA zone map will evidence this, also, check out the range maps for indicator plants such as magnilia and so on. I'm removing the citation needed for Cincinnati because it is no more needed than any other city listed. here's one just from a brief search: http://www.answers.com/topic/subtropics —Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.173.226.236 ( talk) 19:43, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Most of Bergen County, New Jersey is in the debatable zone (between Cfa and Dfa). http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/oakland.htm and http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ramsey.htm proves that these two towns are just inside this zone. However, idcide doesn't have a weather page for Mahwah, the only town in Bergen County north of Oakland and Ramsey. http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ft-lee.htm proves that Fort Lee is just outside the debated zone, in the humid subtropical climate's vicinity. Its funny how the -3C line lies right on or near the Bergen/Passiac/New York State border. http://www.idcide.com/weather/nj/ringwood.htm shows that Ringwood, which borders Mahwah to the northwest (well, really west and a bit north) has a coldest month average between 0C and -3C. Mahwah probably does as well. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 19:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Being interested in the climate of Zambia I checked Wikipedia and stumbeled on this map in Wikipedia. [ [5]] It classifies the Zambian climate and most of the subropical African countries as Cwa, here it states that the Humid subtropical climate is limited to the South African east coast. Maybe somebody with expertise can look into it because one page should be corrected I think. I think the African map is correct myself, because subtropical would mean adjacent to tropical regions.(like Tropical>Cwa> Dessertlike>Mediterranean>Temperate) To me it makes no sense describing any climate in Europe as subtropical Viridiflavus ( talk) 21:56, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
You were using the Koppen f for tropical rainforests (ie. Af not Cf). You ignored the definition of Cwa altogether. You might want to change the citation of the Times Atlas of the World since it's not easily verified and there are many correct definitions of Cfa and Cwa on the web, including Wikipedia Köppen_climate_classification. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.79.39.46 ( talk) 04:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
Why is there debate over NYC? I know there is but why? It's cfa by Koppen, so why would someone change the definition? Is Los Angeles on the Mediterranean? No, but it has a Mediterranean climate. Is Cape Cod on the west coast? No, but it has a Marine West Coast climate. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 22:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I understand. I live in the suburbs of New York City and the coldest month average between 0 and -3C there. Snow does usually melt quickly. Oh, by the way, earlier this week there were 100+ highs in New York City. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 19:27, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
On the other hand, the Koppen definition is more widely used than a definition used by "someone else." Press olive, win oil ( talk) 23:01, 18 June 2008 (UTC).
True, but on the other hand, the Koppen system is most widely used and I can't understand that Minneapolis and Northern Arkansas (also debatable) are in the same zone. I don't truly understand how Northern Arkansas could be continental. I also don't truly understand why a coastal area would be called "continental." Oh, and some people- meteorologists- can't even fathom a minor thing like that? That's horrible and ridicilous if you ask me. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:46, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and if you look at Koppen climate classification, you'll see a map that correctly pictures, according to Koppen, New York City and Boston in the cfa zone. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:50, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, they can grow in Toronto, which has colder winters than Boston, as proven here: [ [7]]. Also, winters on the east coast tend to be moist, rarely cold and dry, right? Anyway, Toronto has a humid continental climate, so even it could then be considered "subtropical?" I don't think so because Koppen's rules naturally should have some exceptions. I think New York and Boston should definitely be considered subtropical. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:55, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
Also, [ [8]] says that the needle palm does grow in New York City but not Boston, matching up with what you said. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 01:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and signs posts by using four of these:~ Press olive, win oil ( talk) 01:14, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm also taking a wikibreak. Check my talk page for details. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:26, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm off my break. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 17:09, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Also, I think the talk page for either humid subtropical (this page) or humid continental climates contains something saying the C/D line matches up with where three crops can be grown in two years. Do you have any idea if this is true? Press olive, win oil ( talk) 12:25, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
It's on the Humid Continental talk page. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 12:30, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I read in the article: "This climate type covers a broad category of climates, and the term "subtropical" may be a misnomer for the winter climate in the cooler areas within this category". Very true. I would simply call this climate "sinic" as Köppen did in his works (check this page).-- Carnby ( talk) 19:41, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
When it comes to the coldest month, I don't understand why people use the freezing line(0C) to determine between humid subtropical & humid continental when it snows annually in the northern reaches of the humid subtropical zone in the winter. Whether some areas are not what some people would consider "subtropical"(SUBtropical being the key word here) is irrelevant. The persistent snowline(-3C) should be used to determine a humid continental climate where it's cold enough for snow to fall persistently as opposed to the northern reaches of the humid subtropical climate where it gets cold enough to snow, albeit less and generally inconsistently. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.19.51 ( talk) 14:42, 1 August 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. The inner New York metropolitan area has a cfa climate according to Koppen's classification. Look at the "Why?" section. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 21:48, 1 August 2008 (UTC) Bergen and Passaic counties have a cfa climate, while sussex county is dfb. The dfa/cfb (don't know which) range is negligible. Northern Westchester is dfa, while southern Westchester is cfa. Northern Rockland is dfa, while southern Rockland is cfa. Press olive, win oil ( talk) 13:08, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
This article used to have climate graphs of places with humid subtropical climates (one each from each of the main parts of the world they are found in) but someone has replaced them with a list of places situated in this climate zone. Why is this? In my opinion it is far less informative now, as the graphs provided an easily interpreted summary of the main features of this climate, while the wiki links to a bunch of cities are going to tell us more about those cities' histories, landmarks, economies etc, and not necessarily much about the climate. Booshank ( talk) 23:21, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
I've re-added the climate charts as I feel they are useful. Most other climate zone articles have them and no-one explained why they were removed. Booshank ( talk) 22:46, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
As per this section of an FA [9], and the article on Koppen classification, the Gangetic plains and North East India has a sub-tropical climate. Can the map be corrected to show this ? Thanks. I am invariant under co-ordinate transformations ( talk) — Preceding undated comment added 03:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
There's a big part of Buenos Aires province whose summers are not warm enough to be considered part of the Humid Subtropical Climate. (They have an Oceanic Temperate climate) I think it should be removed from the map immediately. The same things happens in some parts of Southern Brazil (but in this case, it's less notorious) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.139.179.175 ( talk) 01:23, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Skopje in Macedonia has a climate that is within the definition (even if the city article does not say this). The warmest months - July and August - has a 24-hr average of 23 Centigrades and the coldes month has a 24-hr average of 0.2 centigrades (thus well above -3). There is no dry season (as this article states: at least one third as much precipitation in dryest summer month as in the wettest winter month). See this link for precititation and this link for monthly temperatures. Skopje thus can be added to the list. The other European cities, such as Varna, also fulfills the definition for being humid subtropical. Orcaborealis ( talk) 13:37, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
Even though temperature-wise places like Constanta, Romania; Varna, Bulgaria and Sevastopol, Ukraine do meet the requirements for a "humid subtropical climate", when it comes to precipitation, they actually fit into a semi-arid (steppe) climate. I have heard that in Romania, the entire Black Sea Coast, which averages about 400mm or less annual precipitation, has been included into the BS classification, perhaps BSk climate because of its location in the temperate zone and relatively cold winters (blizzards are common even though the coldest month is just above 0C-32F). I am not exactly sure about areas outside Romania. Also, the Sochi, Russia, area receives a lot of precipitation, so it's not the subject of this discussion. However, there is a region in South-Western Romania, in Banat, that does seem to fit into the "humid subtropical climate"; in fact, I have seen it represented as such on some climate maps. Here's a link for some reference, though I can't find any official data regarding temperatures: http://www.ici.ro/romania/en/turism/b_herculane.html -- IoanC ( talk) 10:01, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
Belgrade and Serbia have this climate yet they are considered oceanic!?
Belgrade has july and august average above 22, 22,3. 21,8 is old average and soon will be out of use, not to mention that this is the average of one of the coldest periods in twentieth century 1961-1990, 1971-2000 averages have shown that the average july temperature is 22,3, while 1981-2010 averages will show even wqrmer averages. January average is 0,5.
Precipitation is typical for Humid subtropical climates . Wettest months are may and june.
Now the area I am talking about (Belgrade and Serbia) belong in Humid subtropical climate on every Koppen map including University of Melbourne map. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.165.179.82 ( talk) 14:51, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Can Some-one tell me how frequently droughts occur per year in a Humid-tropical place? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.59.252 ( talk) 04:25, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
In the Koppen-Geiger climate classification there is no definition like this: 'Cfa' climatic type = humid subtropical. But exist this definition: Cfa = humid temperate. And the type 'Cfa' is similar to 'Cfb' and is different than 'Cwa'. So this article is totally wrong because, about 'Cfa' climatic type 'humid subtropical', it confuse the Koppen-Geiger climate classification with the Koppen-Trewartha classification which has specific parameters, different than Koppen-Geiger, to classify Cfa. http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr_oa/c059p001.pdf
Someone should put also only one source that claims the opposite, If exist. Otherwise the article must be modified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.35.51.230 ( talk) 19:54, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
This article is totally confused because of errors of interpretation and approximate informations. Moreover all sources currently reported in this article (the few still active) don't wrote anything on humid subtropical climate. In fact:
Therefore, the article must strictly follow what the reliable sources say, and it must be modified:
How can regions with well pronounced winters fall under the category of being a sub-tropical climate? Although the preset definition does hold in regions of the mid-south (United States), the term almost angers me by the fact that there are no official transition zones. I simply state this without experience in this subject though I believe my point is relevant.
If a Sub-Tropical climate receives at least 10 inches or 25 centimeters of snow a year and annually experiences temperatures below -15 Celsius or 5 Fahrenheit how can it be given the name of being sub-tropical? Is the freezing point as an average temperature during one month of the year really a good demarcation line for a term referring to areas that are almost tropical?
There is a clear difference in climate compared to the warmer 2/3rds of the defined region. This is most obvious in the flora. Most of the forests in the upper 1/3rd of the sub-tropical zone are vast hardwood deciduous forests where southern pines are not dominant. It would seem that a better approach would be to include a Mesothermal Climate. I find a better classification is in the Trewartha climate classification. Is this not a reasonable point? -- Protector of Truth 56 ( talk) 15:14, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
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