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Hugh appears on the list of Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual people, and the link to that list appears at the bottom of the article, but no mention is made of his being Gay or Bisexual in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekedunn ( talk • contribs)
The article claims that "There was even a bizarre plot to kill Hugh by sticking pins in a wax likeness of him". Sounds a lot like voodoo, an African tradition clearly out of place in England of the 14th century.
Top.Squark ( talk) 19:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I think you'll find pin-sticking magic goes way back before, and further afield, than voodoo. It needs refing though. Johnbod ( talk) 00:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
What an odd title. Shouldn't it be Hugh Despenser the Younger? john k ( talk) 05:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Why isn't the page name "Hugh le Despenser the Younger"? It would appear his forebears and offspring were known as le Despencer. Hack ( talk) 13:09, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I thought by now the article title would be Hugh_le_Despenser_the_Younger. 24.11.170.191 ( talk) 18:43, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The title debate started in 2008 and went on until 2015. As of now, 2021, the title is "Hugh Despenser the Younger" and the introduction says "Hugh le Despenser ... also referred to as "the Younger Despenser"". It doesn't make any sense and it's inconsistent. Robert de Brus or Robert de Bruys (Norman French) was warped into an idiotic Robert the Bruce (English) which does not make any sense. Hugh le Despenser has a similar issue. I think the title should be "Hugh le Despenser (Younger)" or "Hugh Despenser (Younger)". The additional "the Younger" was not part of his name. It just happened to be the younger of the two Hugh le Despenser.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:43, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
In 2006, he was selected by BBC History Magazine as the 14th century's worst Briton.[4] Inclusion of this information seems non-encyclopedic to me. St Thomas a Becket also made this list but no one (quite rightly) added that fact to his article. Nitpyck ( talk) 18:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
The raw violence of Hugh's death is not suitable reading material for children. The vivid description should be softened for the general audience of an encyclopedia. 67.185.161.127 ( talk) 01:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
That's a pity. I had a lot of fun describing De Spenser's execution in graphic detail. In my experience, children love that sort of thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.56.109 ( talk) 11:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
That's crazy, don't change facts and history for wiki. Why would Froissart lie about the execution? The softer version of the execution might well be made to soften the story, for same purposes you describe here. -- Dude0853 ( talk) 11:43, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
This post is just for information on why the trial for treason probably would not have included charges of sodomy. Before the passing of the Buggery Act 1533 sodomites were dealt with in the ecclesiastical courts. So it is quite possible that "his genitals sliced off and burned" but it would not have been as legal part of the punishment for alleged sodomy. -- PBS ( talk) 08:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Although some writers, such as Alison Weir, have speculated that De Spenser was castrated because of his "orientation", in fact, castration was usually practised on convicted tratiors, such as William Wallace. It was not mentioned in the judgement of Sir William Trussell, but it would have been assumed that it would be carried out. In this case, we can be reasonably sure that Froissart was correct.
As an aside, "sodomy", in medieval England, did not have exclusively homosexual connotations. It meant any form of illict sexual intercourse. At this stage, it would have been unusual for a homosexual to be executed or castrated, and more likely, he would have been required to perform a penance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.56.109 ( talk) 11:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
From the article
Despenser expert Julie Frusher has identified another source for the castration, and writes that although castration was not listed as an official punishment, it had been used on earlier traitors such as Simon de Montfort and was a plausible punishment for Despenser, even absent the charges of sexual or amorous deviancy.
Citing: Frusher, J. (2010). "Hanging, Drawing and Quartering: the Anatomy of an Execution". Retrieved 2010-06-30.
What makes Julie Frusher a reliable source? What makes the website www.hughdespenser.com a reliable publisher? -- PBS ( talk) 08:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
If this claim is going to stick, it needs a real academic source. Mangoe ( talk) 14:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
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If this is the same family as the famous Spencers, could this be detailed? Valetude ( talk) 23:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Hugh Despenser the Younger → Hugh le Despenser the Younger – Per other le Despencers Staszek Lem ( talk) 10:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
This article mentions "contemporary accounts" that do not include castration, unlike the account of Jean Froissart who, apparently, as explained in this article, if I interpreted correctly, relied on the account of Jean le Bel (Froissart's Chronicles include the execution of Hugh le Despenser (younger) of 1326 in Book I (years 1322–1377) and I assume they are based on Jean le Bel's account which Jean Froissart likely copied). Hence, there are X plus 1 accounts.
How many X accounts are we talking about?
Should the box on the top right mention both modes of execution, including the castration which is equally plausible and the one typically used in narrated documentaries?
ICE77 ( talk) 00:40, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
The article states that the method of hanging, drawing, and quartering usually did not involve castration, which is incorrect. Even Wikipedia’s own page on that method of execution specifically mentions emasculation as part of the process. 2601:805:600:DA50:0:0:0:2A15 ( talk) 15:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hugh Despenser the Younger article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Hugh appears on the list of Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual people, and the link to that list appears at the bottom of the article, but no mention is made of his being Gay or Bisexual in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zekedunn ( talk • contribs)
The article claims that "There was even a bizarre plot to kill Hugh by sticking pins in a wax likeness of him". Sounds a lot like voodoo, an African tradition clearly out of place in England of the 14th century.
Top.Squark ( talk) 19:25, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I think you'll find pin-sticking magic goes way back before, and further afield, than voodoo. It needs refing though. Johnbod ( talk) 00:21, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
What an odd title. Shouldn't it be Hugh Despenser the Younger? john k ( talk) 05:54, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Why isn't the page name "Hugh le Despenser the Younger"? It would appear his forebears and offspring were known as le Despencer. Hack ( talk) 13:09, 28 July 2011 (UTC)
I thought by now the article title would be Hugh_le_Despenser_the_Younger. 24.11.170.191 ( talk) 18:43, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The title debate started in 2008 and went on until 2015. As of now, 2021, the title is "Hugh Despenser the Younger" and the introduction says "Hugh le Despenser ... also referred to as "the Younger Despenser"". It doesn't make any sense and it's inconsistent. Robert de Brus or Robert de Bruys (Norman French) was warped into an idiotic Robert the Bruce (English) which does not make any sense. Hugh le Despenser has a similar issue. I think the title should be "Hugh le Despenser (Younger)" or "Hugh Despenser (Younger)". The additional "the Younger" was not part of his name. It just happened to be the younger of the two Hugh le Despenser.
ICE77 ( talk) 23:43, 24 July 2021 (UTC)
In 2006, he was selected by BBC History Magazine as the 14th century's worst Briton.[4] Inclusion of this information seems non-encyclopedic to me. St Thomas a Becket also made this list but no one (quite rightly) added that fact to his article. Nitpyck ( talk) 18:56, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
The raw violence of Hugh's death is not suitable reading material for children. The vivid description should be softened for the general audience of an encyclopedia. 67.185.161.127 ( talk) 01:48, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
That's a pity. I had a lot of fun describing De Spenser's execution in graphic detail. In my experience, children love that sort of thing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.56.109 ( talk) 11:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
That's crazy, don't change facts and history for wiki. Why would Froissart lie about the execution? The softer version of the execution might well be made to soften the story, for same purposes you describe here. -- Dude0853 ( talk) 11:43, 10 June 2019 (UTC)
This post is just for information on why the trial for treason probably would not have included charges of sodomy. Before the passing of the Buggery Act 1533 sodomites were dealt with in the ecclesiastical courts. So it is quite possible that "his genitals sliced off and burned" but it would not have been as legal part of the punishment for alleged sodomy. -- PBS ( talk) 08:06, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Although some writers, such as Alison Weir, have speculated that De Spenser was castrated because of his "orientation", in fact, castration was usually practised on convicted tratiors, such as William Wallace. It was not mentioned in the judgement of Sir William Trussell, but it would have been assumed that it would be carried out. In this case, we can be reasonably sure that Froissart was correct.
As an aside, "sodomy", in medieval England, did not have exclusively homosexual connotations. It meant any form of illict sexual intercourse. At this stage, it would have been unusual for a homosexual to be executed or castrated, and more likely, he would have been required to perform a penance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.56.109 ( talk) 11:07, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
From the article
Despenser expert Julie Frusher has identified another source for the castration, and writes that although castration was not listed as an official punishment, it had been used on earlier traitors such as Simon de Montfort and was a plausible punishment for Despenser, even absent the charges of sexual or amorous deviancy.
Citing: Frusher, J. (2010). "Hanging, Drawing and Quartering: the Anatomy of an Execution". Retrieved 2010-06-30.
What makes Julie Frusher a reliable source? What makes the website www.hughdespenser.com a reliable publisher? -- PBS ( talk) 08:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
If this claim is going to stick, it needs a real academic source. Mangoe ( talk) 14:09, 21 December 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Hugh Despenser the Younger. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:09, 6 April 2017 (UTC)
If this is the same family as the famous Spencers, could this be detailed? Valetude ( talk) 23:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus ( non-admin closure) ( t · c) buidhe 00:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
Hugh Despenser the Younger → Hugh le Despenser the Younger – Per other le Despencers Staszek Lem ( talk) 10:35, 18 September 2020 (UTC)
This article mentions "contemporary accounts" that do not include castration, unlike the account of Jean Froissart who, apparently, as explained in this article, if I interpreted correctly, relied on the account of Jean le Bel (Froissart's Chronicles include the execution of Hugh le Despenser (younger) of 1326 in Book I (years 1322–1377) and I assume they are based on Jean le Bel's account which Jean Froissart likely copied). Hence, there are X plus 1 accounts.
How many X accounts are we talking about?
Should the box on the top right mention both modes of execution, including the castration which is equally plausible and the one typically used in narrated documentaries?
ICE77 ( talk) 00:40, 25 July 2021 (UTC)
The article states that the method of hanging, drawing, and quartering usually did not involve castration, which is incorrect. Even Wikipedia’s own page on that method of execution specifically mentions emasculation as part of the process. 2601:805:600:DA50:0:0:0:2A15 ( talk) 15:58, 26 November 2021 (UTC)