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Is there a reason this is listed under Category: Holidays?
I think this is just because of mistaking "holidays" for "vacations". And I don't even know, if this sentence was grammatically right... ;)
User:Felix
I added a graph of user growth, personally I think it gives a nice touch to the article, although anyone who disagrees is welcome to remove it... - FrancisTyers 16:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree it's nice to have a graph there. But the current version is very
strange. It seems to imply that before the 03/2005 the growth more or less followed a logistical curve, with expected saturation value somewhere around 35 thousand people. Then in this month something very very strange happened
and the growth went to linear (which seems also very strange for such a kind of project). I think this is because the graph was made only from a few data points and then fitted with a curve in a statistically wrong way. It's important to at least include the data points (e.g. as crosses or circles) and preferably drop the fit line at all. Or think of some model of the growth and fit the data with this. If this is the issue, I offer to help with this (and make a nice graph) to whoever posted the original and has access to the data it was made from.
If this is not the case and the points on the graph are not a line fit, but actual datapoints, sampled with high resolution, then can somebody please exaplain me what the hell does it mean? What did happen in 03/2005? User:hhanke
I don't know what exactly happens, but I do know growth can be irregular because of the aproving process of new members. For example, recently some 20000 new members were put on hold (not included in the statistics, nor full members yet), because of server problems. User:joostjakob
It is fixed now. The graph explains data are taken daily and the early data are only an estimate in the caption. My early objection that it is important to differentiate between data points and fit line was not correct, because the sampling frequency is actually so high that all the points on the line are data points. Now it is explained in the caption so everyone can understand the graph. Also the early esimate is now somehow smothen as not to suggest some strange skip. I'm impressed by the work Francis has put in to gather the correct data. Thank you! -- hhanke 21:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Since somebody deleted the link towards the HC members, here it is: - Hospitality club members on Wikipedia Dunemaire 06:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Is this correct? - FrancisTyers 21:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted, here is the link: http://www.industree.org/guaka/index.php/Censorship_in_Hospitality_Club - I don't think any of us want it on the front page though do we? - FrancisTyers 09:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm a member of HC myself and I know that you can turn of the mail monitoring for your account there if you want. They also make it clear from the very beginning that mail is being scanned. Wikipedia article is not the right place to discuss your personal opinion on the club anyway. -- Lysy ( talk) 16:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I have the feeling that you are disappointed with HC and are trying to express this personal emotion of yours in the article here. While I do not want to endorse censorship, I don't think the article is the proper place to discuss whether what you've experienced there was censorship or not. Also I feel it's inappropriate to use your own blog as a source, don't you think so ? As for the fact that the messages are being monitored for spam (and this feature can be turned off) I think they are very clear about it. Maybe you've just not set it in your preferences setting or read HC's disclaimer ? -- Lysy ( talk) 16:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
And regarding your recent addition about HC's DNS and who registered the domain, why do you think it deserves to be mentioned here ? Peace ! -- Lysy ( talk) 16:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Do we want the See also heading? I think it's kind of superfluous since there is a hospitality service category now. Guaka 20:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Just found out CouchSurfing group messages are open to the public. This one, started by the founder of Hospitality Club, is pretty interesting... Guaka 22:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I really think that we need a discussion about the criticism part. I am a hc member and cs member and was surprised to read that there these rivalries. i checked guakas arguments and saw that indeed quite a few people were unhappy with the way the hospitality club is run. also the censorship thing needs a discussion within the hospitality club. but does it really belong in an encyclopedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.135.45.196 ( talk • contribs) 11:05, 11 January 2006.
What happened to the part of the article containing information about the deletion of messages containing CouchSurfing? Guaka 18:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Outdated in what sense? Did I miss something? The last thing I read about this was that messages containing website promotion are to be deleted and that a link to CouchSurfing is supposed to be considered website promotion by HC spam checkers.
As Valmi stated, this is no longer the case and as such if it is to be included, it should be done in the past tense. - FrancisTyers 16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Removed to talk page pending citation. - FrancisTyers 21:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I know that this would be supposed to go to the Veit Kuehne discussion page but I doubt anyone checks there often and the relevant people discuss here. I am wondering if a seperate entry for Veit is really appropiate in an encyclopedia. After all he is not that an important person. Isn't it enough to mention his name here? I suggest to delete that entry but would like to know what you think about it before I do so... Splette 13:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
You can copy and paste this: ~~~~ - FrancisTyers 16:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Valmi, why did you remove the links to similar organisations which I put in the See also section? The link you gave in the comment does not exist. I presume there has been some discussion about this before?! Still I think it makes perfect sense to let readers know about Wiki pages of similar organisations which by the way also link to HC and each other. I know HC does not like to promote the others on their site and there they can do what they want. But this is Wikipedia and does not follow HC's policy. Rather should Wikipedia give the reader the most complete picture possible..., agree? Splette 16:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be nice to have the HC logo on the page but I don't know who owns the rights of it. Or maybe a low resolution version could be uploaded like it is done for many company logos. Does any one of you know more about the licensing? What do you think? --
Splette
15:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Please provide citations for this information. See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words and WP:CITE. Thanks - FrancisTyers 17:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Removed by Valmi with the justification "rv because false":
Some part is just copy/paste from HC.org. Please give some more justification. Guaka 00:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Exciting, but not encyclopaedic. - FrancisTyers 12:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
From the CouchSurfing article:
With a reference from CouchSurfing groups. Is that okay, i.e. cited correctly? If so, why? Because Casey wrote it? Just wanna know what parts from CS groups I can quote. I wouldn't want that part to be removed. Guaka 16:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the "See Also" section that Guaka just added, because we have discussed it in the past already when Guaka (the same one) had suggested that we should remove it. Since there was a consensus then to remove it and that nobody reopened the discussion, I assume that putting it back was a simple étourderie. --Valmi
Two things please Guaka:
1) You removed this text...
...that you had actually put in yourself. Your edit note did not justify (or indeed say) that you were removing that. Can we know why? Changed your mind about that too? You may consider making a copy of this article in User:Guaka/Sandbox.
2) When you say "The founder prefers not to speak about bad experiences." would you please be kind enough as to provide a quote from your source? This source is uncheckable as it is and makes no sense to the reader because this is the English version of the Wikipedia encyclopedia, you see.
--Valmi
Mit der Sicherheit steht und fällt so ein Club", weiß Veit Kühne. Doch über negative Ereignisse spricht er nicht gern. Lieber verweist er auf das System aus Sicherheitsmaßnahmen, das den Missbrauch des Clubs verhindern soll.
Security can make or break a club", knows Veit Kühne, but he does not speak willingly about the negative aspects, he only refers to the system which stops abuse of the club
I got a friend to do a translation of that part. Could you perhaps give more context. Negative aspects is not the same as negative experiences. I welcome better translations. Perhaps a statement from Veit himself? - FrancisTyers 16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
It looks like this is simply something personal between [wrongly spelled & not welcome here] (aka alex or 212.120.100.131 - he has been known to do anonymous trolling on many a wiki), Kasper Souren ( Guaka) and the founder Veit. From what I know Alex and Guaka have both published emails from other people and Hospitality Club volunteers on their private websites in some fight for "democracy" and against "censorship" in HC (Guaka ironically even licensing those emails from other people as public domain; and then even referencing his personal blog here as "source" - I mean, come on guys, how ridiculous is it gonna get??). And here they keep adding and adding negative stuff about a great site. I will remove some of that, as it is clearly a personal thing of you two. Posting only negative (but factually verifiable) information on a topic, or specifically focusing on negative things without giving the other side IS having a POV - and we all agree that we'd better stick to NPOV here, dont we? Amarent 19:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
The first part is pretty clear. But I wonder where I can find a reference for this high level of trust. Guaka 21:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
This might be somehow unrelated but I was always wondering HOW volunteers check messages for spam. Are they actually reading my mail and then decide whether it is spam or not? Wouldn't that violate privacy? Does anyone know? --
Splette
Talk
13:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The Hospitality Service article says that " Hospitality Club is the direct successor Hospex, the first Internet-based service, operating out of Poland since 1992." Who's right, the Hospitality Club article or the Hospitality Service article...? -- Helen 84.56.161.203 15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Reviews Written by Veit Kuehne "veit.net" (Dresden, Germany) at Amazon.com. Guaka 16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Daily page views, Daily reach, Daily traffic trend
more interesting - FrancisTyers · 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
This seems very relevant to me. It's another domain name linking to Hospitality Club. Another domain name that happens to be the name of another hospitality exchange network. Still, Amarent keeps on removing this information. Guaka 00:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
References
This paragraph appears to be original research, has this information been published previously by a reliable source? Addhoc 10:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
According to WP:V, "the obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it". Accordingly, if you have a reputable secondary reference, then could you provide the citation. For the avoidance of doubt WP:RS explains that a secondary source would summarize one or more primary or secondary sources. In this context a Whois lookup would be considered a primary, not a secondary source. Addhoc 14:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There is a get out clause to the requirement to have secondary sources in articles about that subject. So the official web site of the Hospitality Club can be used according to WP:RS. Also WP:OR explains:
You appear to be arguing for the inclusion of "previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories". Addhoc 17:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd suggest removing the reference to the registration by Veit, and just mention that it points to the HC forum - there's nothing controversial about those facts, and it's very relevant, in my view. -- Singkong2005 talk 02:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't see why this can't be part of the article. Guaka 20:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
"In June 2006 a group of highly involved HC volunteers set up HCvol, an NGO, "where volunteers can organize their work in a democratic and transparent way. [1]" was removed by Amarent with the justification: "and guaka does it again. Why don't you add some critical notes to the CS article, instead always add "facts" to the HC one here?)". Guaka 10:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Should we say that HC is currently down as of May 3rd 2007? It's not a normal outage - the website is out of commission until the db has finished the upgrade to MYSQL 5, which could be days. --Azarethroy
Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 02:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Could someone update the graph of the numbers of members, please? April 2006 is a long time ago. Otherwise I'd suggest to remove it. After all, the exponential growth of HC is mentioned in the article already. -- Splette :) How's my driving? 19:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
= a most conspicuous sign of HOW DEAD the Hospitality Club is!
´'Angel.García, Nuremberg / BAVARIA 62.156.40.183 ( talk) 23:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
In recent years In the past five years, the number of active members dropt dramatically (1). HC does not publish actual figures, but the grief goes that > 90 % of members are inactive - a fact that can be ascertained by clicking the profiles. Personally, founder Veit KUEHNE will not disclose his finances not the club's structures (2), or prove the "thousands of volunteers" ' real existence. Volunteers that left, complain of unbearable conditions (3). He eagerly promoted in July 2012 the partnership - resented by most members - with the Californian hôtel broker Airbed & Breakfast [AirBnB], yielding HC a provision with every booking. The broker's profit scheme contrasts diametrically against HC's and its members' idealism; apart from advertising for their own competitor, as each bed can either be marketed with profit, or be ceded for philanthropic reasons for free.
The primary reasons for the disillusionment you find in every forum, every blog are the huge percentage of "dead wood" = inactive members, the snaillike communications, and the leader's inaction and inaccessibility.With > 90 % of members inactive since years, even some major cities have but 1 - 10 active hosts left (4). - Bed requests using the official channels may take 6 months or more - all communications are being spam-tested, which purportedly takes time. - Last not least, all improvement schemes of motivated members meet grave's silence from Dresden Headquarters, and the founder posts but every couple of years, announcing improvements that never materialize - this deafens whatever initiative (5). The young join CouchSurfing; the dead wood stays (6). Homepage Copyright: 2006 !
(1) English homepage: 707 000 members - other languages: 328 000 as of 1-1-2014
(2) CS discussion
(3) CS discussion
(4) In Greater Nuremberg [750 000 inhabitants], only Gartenfreund is still active.
(5) Kymryt from Philadelphia, 75 years old, Summer 2013: Forum: „Ok, how to make HC a better place“
http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=309882
(6) Kymryt from Philadelphia 4 October 2013: You CAN try to write to the folks at feedback directly. Good luck! You can write a complaint to VEIT - he is the head honcho. 62.156.40.183 ( talk) 23:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC) Quelle: http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=312705
Under Sitemap, your find 'General information Pages', and there, very tiny >Travel Guide: Help and Information<. This is NO wiki and can neither be altered nor expanded; it consists 90 % of terms of contract.
I erased it. - Ángel.García 93.193.64.66 ( talk) 17:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The latest additions contain nearly no sources and look like original research. Please provide some sources. Arved ( talk) 06:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
I guess it is possible to change this into past tense. The project has not been worked on for years, some graphics already vanished in 2019, login did not work since at least February 2021. - Flexman ( talk) 21:38, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Collapsing discussion that digresses from the focus of the discussion
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deus1999|TALK]] CONTRIBS 19:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
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The problem is that Hospitality Club does not really work anymore. But there hasn't been any official statment, because the creator(s) of the project just abandoned it. So, no one takes care about the portal anymore, since February 2021 the login did not work anymore, and since April 2022 the page is even offline. The service already lost its popularity in the years before, and there is no media coverage anymore. The result is, that there is no undisputed source which we could use for citation. I did add the information that the service is not functional anymore and used the Wayback Machine and some Uptime-Portal for citation, but this was considered as WP:OR. Otherwise the initiation was changed from "is" to "was" but without citation. So the question here is: Is it really WP:OR, and if yes, will we find another way to get more specific about the current situation of the project, or won't we be able to do any updates unless some media will report about this? - Flexman ( talk) 14:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
So, what's now the conclusion of this? - Flexman ( talk) 17:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Unbh Read "Trip to the country from which the foreigner is not required, you only need to provide the necessary documents (eg. the Imam), which are taken to the country of the foreigner and there based on the original certificate is issued in an illegal marriage (by a corrupt official). With this document the relationship is legalized in the registry office in the target country, and authentic copy of the marriage certificate is sent to an alien country where it serves as a basis for applying for a visa. One way to authenticate the stay is to establish contact via the Internet with the resident EU offer accommodation in their homes and apartments. This is done inter alia through the website www.hospitalityclub.org. Individuals who invite foreigners this way, do not they carry them and it does not charge any fees (or take a small amount associated with the invitation). And foreigners can move freely within the EU's MS without the need to register their stay [13]." Geysirhead ( talk) 16:14, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
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Is there a reason this is listed under Category: Holidays?
I think this is just because of mistaking "holidays" for "vacations". And I don't even know, if this sentence was grammatically right... ;)
User:Felix
I added a graph of user growth, personally I think it gives a nice touch to the article, although anyone who disagrees is welcome to remove it... - FrancisTyers 16:58, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I agree it's nice to have a graph there. But the current version is very
strange. It seems to imply that before the 03/2005 the growth more or less followed a logistical curve, with expected saturation value somewhere around 35 thousand people. Then in this month something very very strange happened
and the growth went to linear (which seems also very strange for such a kind of project). I think this is because the graph was made only from a few data points and then fitted with a curve in a statistically wrong way. It's important to at least include the data points (e.g. as crosses or circles) and preferably drop the fit line at all. Or think of some model of the growth and fit the data with this. If this is the issue, I offer to help with this (and make a nice graph) to whoever posted the original and has access to the data it was made from.
If this is not the case and the points on the graph are not a line fit, but actual datapoints, sampled with high resolution, then can somebody please exaplain me what the hell does it mean? What did happen in 03/2005? User:hhanke
I don't know what exactly happens, but I do know growth can be irregular because of the aproving process of new members. For example, recently some 20000 new members were put on hold (not included in the statistics, nor full members yet), because of server problems. User:joostjakob
It is fixed now. The graph explains data are taken daily and the early data are only an estimate in the caption. My early objection that it is important to differentiate between data points and fit line was not correct, because the sampling frequency is actually so high that all the points on the line are data points. Now it is explained in the caption so everyone can understand the graph. Also the early esimate is now somehow smothen as not to suggest some strange skip. I'm impressed by the work Francis has put in to gather the correct data. Thank you! -- hhanke 21:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Since somebody deleted the link towards the HC members, here it is: - Hospitality club members on Wikipedia Dunemaire 06:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
Is this correct? - FrancisTyers 21:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
I've reverted, here is the link: http://www.industree.org/guaka/index.php/Censorship_in_Hospitality_Club - I don't think any of us want it on the front page though do we? - FrancisTyers 09:15, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm a member of HC myself and I know that you can turn of the mail monitoring for your account there if you want. They also make it clear from the very beginning that mail is being scanned. Wikipedia article is not the right place to discuss your personal opinion on the club anyway. -- Lysy ( talk) 16:07, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I have the feeling that you are disappointed with HC and are trying to express this personal emotion of yours in the article here. While I do not want to endorse censorship, I don't think the article is the proper place to discuss whether what you've experienced there was censorship or not. Also I feel it's inappropriate to use your own blog as a source, don't you think so ? As for the fact that the messages are being monitored for spam (and this feature can be turned off) I think they are very clear about it. Maybe you've just not set it in your preferences setting or read HC's disclaimer ? -- Lysy ( talk) 16:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
And regarding your recent addition about HC's DNS and who registered the domain, why do you think it deserves to be mentioned here ? Peace ! -- Lysy ( talk) 16:26, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Do we want the See also heading? I think it's kind of superfluous since there is a hospitality service category now. Guaka 20:55, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
Just found out CouchSurfing group messages are open to the public. This one, started by the founder of Hospitality Club, is pretty interesting... Guaka 22:52, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I really think that we need a discussion about the criticism part. I am a hc member and cs member and was surprised to read that there these rivalries. i checked guakas arguments and saw that indeed quite a few people were unhappy with the way the hospitality club is run. also the censorship thing needs a discussion within the hospitality club. but does it really belong in an encyclopedia? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.135.45.196 ( talk • contribs) 11:05, 11 January 2006.
What happened to the part of the article containing information about the deletion of messages containing CouchSurfing? Guaka 18:47, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
Outdated in what sense? Did I miss something? The last thing I read about this was that messages containing website promotion are to be deleted and that a link to CouchSurfing is supposed to be considered website promotion by HC spam checkers.
As Valmi stated, this is no longer the case and as such if it is to be included, it should be done in the past tense. - FrancisTyers 16:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
Removed to talk page pending citation. - FrancisTyers 21:55, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
I know that this would be supposed to go to the Veit Kuehne discussion page but I doubt anyone checks there often and the relevant people discuss here. I am wondering if a seperate entry for Veit is really appropiate in an encyclopedia. After all he is not that an important person. Isn't it enough to mention his name here? I suggest to delete that entry but would like to know what you think about it before I do so... Splette 13:46, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
You can copy and paste this: ~~~~ - FrancisTyers 16:25, 21 February 2006 (UTC)
Hi Valmi, why did you remove the links to similar organisations which I put in the See also section? The link you gave in the comment does not exist. I presume there has been some discussion about this before?! Still I think it makes perfect sense to let readers know about Wiki pages of similar organisations which by the way also link to HC and each other. I know HC does not like to promote the others on their site and there they can do what they want. But this is Wikipedia and does not follow HC's policy. Rather should Wikipedia give the reader the most complete picture possible..., agree? Splette 16:35, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it would be nice to have the HC logo on the page but I don't know who owns the rights of it. Or maybe a low resolution version could be uploaded like it is done for many company logos. Does any one of you know more about the licensing? What do you think? --
Splette
15:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Please provide citations for this information. See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words and WP:CITE. Thanks - FrancisTyers 17:51, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Removed by Valmi with the justification "rv because false":
Some part is just copy/paste from HC.org. Please give some more justification. Guaka 00:33, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
Exciting, but not encyclopaedic. - FrancisTyers 12:18, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
From the CouchSurfing article:
With a reference from CouchSurfing groups. Is that okay, i.e. cited correctly? If so, why? Because Casey wrote it? Just wanna know what parts from CS groups I can quote. I wouldn't want that part to be removed. Guaka 16:34, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I removed the "See Also" section that Guaka just added, because we have discussed it in the past already when Guaka (the same one) had suggested that we should remove it. Since there was a consensus then to remove it and that nobody reopened the discussion, I assume that putting it back was a simple étourderie. --Valmi
Two things please Guaka:
1) You removed this text...
...that you had actually put in yourself. Your edit note did not justify (or indeed say) that you were removing that. Can we know why? Changed your mind about that too? You may consider making a copy of this article in User:Guaka/Sandbox.
2) When you say "The founder prefers not to speak about bad experiences." would you please be kind enough as to provide a quote from your source? This source is uncheckable as it is and makes no sense to the reader because this is the English version of the Wikipedia encyclopedia, you see.
--Valmi
Mit der Sicherheit steht und fällt so ein Club", weiß Veit Kühne. Doch über negative Ereignisse spricht er nicht gern. Lieber verweist er auf das System aus Sicherheitsmaßnahmen, das den Missbrauch des Clubs verhindern soll.
Security can make or break a club", knows Veit Kühne, but he does not speak willingly about the negative aspects, he only refers to the system which stops abuse of the club
I got a friend to do a translation of that part. Could you perhaps give more context. Negative aspects is not the same as negative experiences. I welcome better translations. Perhaps a statement from Veit himself? - FrancisTyers 16:58, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
It looks like this is simply something personal between [wrongly spelled & not welcome here] (aka alex or 212.120.100.131 - he has been known to do anonymous trolling on many a wiki), Kasper Souren ( Guaka) and the founder Veit. From what I know Alex and Guaka have both published emails from other people and Hospitality Club volunteers on their private websites in some fight for "democracy" and against "censorship" in HC (Guaka ironically even licensing those emails from other people as public domain; and then even referencing his personal blog here as "source" - I mean, come on guys, how ridiculous is it gonna get??). And here they keep adding and adding negative stuff about a great site. I will remove some of that, as it is clearly a personal thing of you two. Posting only negative (but factually verifiable) information on a topic, or specifically focusing on negative things without giving the other side IS having a POV - and we all agree that we'd better stick to NPOV here, dont we? Amarent 19:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
The first part is pretty clear. But I wonder where I can find a reference for this high level of trust. Guaka 21:21, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
This might be somehow unrelated but I was always wondering HOW volunteers check messages for spam. Are they actually reading my mail and then decide whether it is spam or not? Wouldn't that violate privacy? Does anyone know? --
Splette
Talk
13:31, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The Hospitality Service article says that " Hospitality Club is the direct successor Hospex, the first Internet-based service, operating out of Poland since 1992." Who's right, the Hospitality Club article or the Hospitality Service article...? -- Helen 84.56.161.203 15:36, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Reviews Written by Veit Kuehne "veit.net" (Dresden, Germany) at Amazon.com. Guaka 16:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Daily page views, Daily reach, Daily traffic trend
more interesting - FrancisTyers · 11:24, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
This seems very relevant to me. It's another domain name linking to Hospitality Club. Another domain name that happens to be the name of another hospitality exchange network. Still, Amarent keeps on removing this information. Guaka 00:30, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
References
This paragraph appears to be original research, has this information been published previously by a reliable source? Addhoc 10:40, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
According to WP:V, "the obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it". Accordingly, if you have a reputable secondary reference, then could you provide the citation. For the avoidance of doubt WP:RS explains that a secondary source would summarize one or more primary or secondary sources. In this context a Whois lookup would be considered a primary, not a secondary source. Addhoc 14:20, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
There is a get out clause to the requirement to have secondary sources in articles about that subject. So the official web site of the Hospitality Club can be used according to WP:RS. Also WP:OR explains:
You appear to be arguing for the inclusion of "previously unpublished arguments, concepts, data, ideas, statements, or theories". Addhoc 17:15, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I'd suggest removing the reference to the registration by Veit, and just mention that it points to the HC forum - there's nothing controversial about those facts, and it's very relevant, in my view. -- Singkong2005 talk 02:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
I don't see why this can't be part of the article. Guaka 20:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
"In June 2006 a group of highly involved HC volunteers set up HCvol, an NGO, "where volunteers can organize their work in a democratic and transparent way. [1]" was removed by Amarent with the justification: "and guaka does it again. Why don't you add some critical notes to the CS article, instead always add "facts" to the HC one here?)". Guaka 10:11, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Should we say that HC is currently down as of May 3rd 2007? It's not a normal outage - the website is out of commission until the db has finished the upgrade to MYSQL 5, which could be days. --Azarethroy
Image:HospitalityClub-GobuyanLogo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot 02:34, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Could someone update the graph of the numbers of members, please? April 2006 is a long time ago. Otherwise I'd suggest to remove it. After all, the exponential growth of HC is mentioned in the article already. -- Splette :) How's my driving? 19:27, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
= a most conspicuous sign of HOW DEAD the Hospitality Club is!
´'Angel.García, Nuremberg / BAVARIA 62.156.40.183 ( talk) 23:02, 29 December 2013 (UTC)
In recent years In the past five years, the number of active members dropt dramatically (1). HC does not publish actual figures, but the grief goes that > 90 % of members are inactive - a fact that can be ascertained by clicking the profiles. Personally, founder Veit KUEHNE will not disclose his finances not the club's structures (2), or prove the "thousands of volunteers" ' real existence. Volunteers that left, complain of unbearable conditions (3). He eagerly promoted in July 2012 the partnership - resented by most members - with the Californian hôtel broker Airbed & Breakfast [AirBnB], yielding HC a provision with every booking. The broker's profit scheme contrasts diametrically against HC's and its members' idealism; apart from advertising for their own competitor, as each bed can either be marketed with profit, or be ceded for philanthropic reasons for free.
The primary reasons for the disillusionment you find in every forum, every blog are the huge percentage of "dead wood" = inactive members, the snaillike communications, and the leader's inaction and inaccessibility.With > 90 % of members inactive since years, even some major cities have but 1 - 10 active hosts left (4). - Bed requests using the official channels may take 6 months or more - all communications are being spam-tested, which purportedly takes time. - Last not least, all improvement schemes of motivated members meet grave's silence from Dresden Headquarters, and the founder posts but every couple of years, announcing improvements that never materialize - this deafens whatever initiative (5). The young join CouchSurfing; the dead wood stays (6). Homepage Copyright: 2006 !
(1) English homepage: 707 000 members - other languages: 328 000 as of 1-1-2014
(2) CS discussion
(3) CS discussion
(4) In Greater Nuremberg [750 000 inhabitants], only Gartenfreund is still active.
(5) Kymryt from Philadelphia, 75 years old, Summer 2013: Forum: „Ok, how to make HC a better place“
http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=309882
(6) Kymryt from Philadelphia 4 October 2013: You CAN try to write to the folks at feedback directly. Good luck! You can write a complaint to VEIT - he is the head honcho. 62.156.40.183 ( talk) 23:10, 29 December 2013 (UTC) Quelle: http://secure.hospitalityclub.org/hc/forum.php?action=DisplayMessage&StartMessageId=312705
Under Sitemap, your find 'General information Pages', and there, very tiny >Travel Guide: Help and Information<. This is NO wiki and can neither be altered nor expanded; it consists 90 % of terms of contract.
I erased it. - Ángel.García 93.193.64.66 ( talk) 17:45, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
The latest additions contain nearly no sources and look like original research. Please provide some sources. Arved ( talk) 06:42, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
I guess it is possible to change this into past tense. The project has not been worked on for years, some graphics already vanished in 2019, login did not work since at least February 2021. - Flexman ( talk) 21:38, 29 October 2021 (UTC)
Collapsing discussion that digresses from the focus of the discussion
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deus1999|TALK]] CONTRIBS 19:30, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
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The problem is that Hospitality Club does not really work anymore. But there hasn't been any official statment, because the creator(s) of the project just abandoned it. So, no one takes care about the portal anymore, since February 2021 the login did not work anymore, and since April 2022 the page is even offline. The service already lost its popularity in the years before, and there is no media coverage anymore. The result is, that there is no undisputed source which we could use for citation. I did add the information that the service is not functional anymore and used the Wayback Machine and some Uptime-Portal for citation, but this was considered as WP:OR. Otherwise the initiation was changed from "is" to "was" but without citation. So the question here is: Is it really WP:OR, and if yes, will we find another way to get more specific about the current situation of the project, or won't we be able to do any updates unless some media will report about this? - Flexman ( talk) 14:10, 2 May 2022 (UTC)
So, what's now the conclusion of this? - Flexman ( talk) 17:10, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
@ Unbh Read "Trip to the country from which the foreigner is not required, you only need to provide the necessary documents (eg. the Imam), which are taken to the country of the foreigner and there based on the original certificate is issued in an illegal marriage (by a corrupt official). With this document the relationship is legalized in the registry office in the target country, and authentic copy of the marriage certificate is sent to an alien country where it serves as a basis for applying for a visa. One way to authenticate the stay is to establish contact via the Internet with the resident EU offer accommodation in their homes and apartments. This is done inter alia through the website www.hospitalityclub.org. Individuals who invite foreigners this way, do not they carry them and it does not charge any fees (or take a small amount associated with the invitation). And foreigners can move freely within the EU's MS without the need to register their stay [13]." Geysirhead ( talk) 16:14, 6 August 2022 (UTC)