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Perhaps a brief line explaining how Der Fuhrer's Face parodied the song would be in order, as it's not entirely readily apparent when listening to the two tunes. 156.34.221.174 14:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
What abowt telling us about the circumstances of Horst Wessels death and why the Nazis chose him as the subject of the song?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.11.217 ( talk • contribs) 17:35, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
And how about posting the lyrics? Me and my friends like churning out some campfire songs, so I'd like to know what I'm singing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.249.27.160 ( talk • contribs) 14:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The article claims "The line "Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen" is bad German."
This may not be the greatest line of German poetry ever written, but it is grammatically perfectly fine without having to assume that auxiliary verbs have been omitted. erschossen is 3rd person plural of the simple past tense of the verb erschießen. Translated literally, the line means Comrades, whom Red Front and Reaction shot dead. AlOgrady ( talk) 00:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
"Kälbermarsch" should be added to the parodies because it's by Bertolt Brecht —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.215.119.110 ( talk) 06:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
What's the copyright position? Under the 70 year rule, it's only PD if the author died before 1936. And is the translation the editor's own or copied from somewhere?-- Brownlee 12:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there any reason (such as the German law, though I doubt this has any effect) the original German lyrics are not shown in the article? ProhibitOnions (T) 21:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
"A singable English translation: Raise high the flag, close ranks, now all together, Storm Troopers march, with firm and steady tread. Souls of our comrades shot by Reds and by the enemy March with us too, and swell the ranks ahead.
Make way, make way now for the brown battalion. Make way for storm troops as they march along. We raise the swastika, the hope of many millions, The day of freedom and of bread has come.
The bugle sounds its final call to battle, We stand at arms, we're ready for the fight. Soon Hitler's flags will wave o'er every street and byway The end of slav’ry comes with morning light."
excuse me but is it really necessary to add a "singable english translation" of that song into the article? in my opinion it´s just wasted space and so i deleted it. mfg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.254.39 ( talk) 05:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be moved to Horst-Wessel-Lied. The title is in German and the correct german spelling is Horst-Wessel-Lied. -- ° 11:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
I need to tell that the lyrics in the article aren't fully correct. The following weren't correct: In the trird textblock they say:
and the following is also incorrect:
I only wanted your oppinion about if I must change it or not...
Another thing what was said in the article isn't correct either i thought. They say that the Horst-Wessel-Lied was the national anthem during the second world war, but this isn't true according to many people I've spoken. Could anny one confirm this?
-- KnorXone ( talk) 19:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I have rewritten and expanded this article, largely using the linked paper by Broderick. There are some relevant photos here but I would want an opinion on their copyright status before I uploaded them. (General inquiry: what is the copyright status of "official" photos and artwork from the Third Reich under current German law? There seems to be an assumption at Wikipedia that because the Third Reich is defunct, copyright does not apply to its relics). Adam 04:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I've reformatted the lyrics and translations; the old version was unreadable. You may wish to fiddle some more with the presentation but please avoid excessive italics. They are very hard to read in big blocks. No need to grind in the fact that they are lyrics or that some are in German, some in English. Okay? John Reid ° 13:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
A subtlety is lost in translation. The German text contains "Rotfront", which was a standard abbreviation for Rotfrontkämpferbund, who frequently clashed with SA. The KPD idea was Rot Front (written as two words). `' mikkanarxi 18:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Some decided that "Horst-Wessel-Lied" is song title. Its title was " Die Fahne hoch!". "Horst-Wessel-Lied" means simply " Horst Wessel's song", and that "Lied" starts with the capital letter (which could hint that is a title) is accidental, because in German language nouns are written from capitals. Therefore the article must be either moved under its original title Die Fahne hoch! or under its English name, which is Horst Wessel song.
Opinions, please. `' mikkanarxi 18:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, don't panic. I didn't start moving the article from its current place, however strange for an English reader the title is now. `' mikkanarxi 01:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
The name of the song is "Horst-Wessel-Lied". Maybe Wessel himself called his words "die Fahne hoch" - after his death in 1930 and especially from 1933-1945 when the song was part of a sort of national anthem, it was officially named "Horst-Wessel-Lied".
mfg norbert —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.254.39 ( talk) 05:31, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
In Ruth Lewin Sime's biography of Lise Meitner, the lyrics (IIRC) "when Jewish blood spurts from our knives, we will feel twice as good!" or something very similar are stated to be a part of the Horst Wessel lied. I've seen words to this effect noted in a few other descriptions of the song. But I can't find these lyrics in any official version. Does anyone know how they fit into the song/story of the song? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wiserd911 ( talk • contribs) 03:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
There were "official" lyrics to the song, which followed fairly closely what Wessel wrote - his manuscript can be seen online. These are as given in the article. There were also many unofficial lyrics, some of which are given in the article. I have seen references to the line you quote, but I have never seen a set of lyrics which incorporates it. Adam 10:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
i changed the english translation, it must be "shot dead BY red front and reaction". in the german original "...die rotfront und reaktion erschossen" we have an accusativ and not a nominativ use of "die" (german native speaker)
I changed the English translation, because the earlier version wasn't idiomatic English, although not usually incorrect. I changed "Red Front" to "Reds" because it sounds more like English, but please change it back if you think the actual words "Red Front" are important-- I don't think they are because that is explained later. In English, "Reaction" and "Reactionaries" have two completely different meanings so I changed that too. I had always wondered what the words are to this song, since books about Nazi Germany are always referring to it. Thanks to whoever posted the original German.
Evangeline ( talk) 01:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)Evangeline
I don't quite get why it is necessary to include text for a singable English version, unless you want to encourage people to sing the song in English. Considering the historical context of the song that seems rather insensitive. Since it is not required for the accuracy or completeness of the article I propose removing the singable version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.81.43 ( talk) 05:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Very POV ( 80.136.127.163 ( talk) 11:42, 30 August 2011 (UTC))
The image Image:WesselHorst.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check
This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --03:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
I removed an addition of a modern set of lyrics written by George Lincoln Rockwell because the anonymous user said it was "1960s". There are a number of copies of it around [1] [2], however I cant pin down publication details quickly. I did find that This Time the World (1960) is public domain because it wasnt renewed, but this text isnt in there. John Vandenberg ( chat) 00:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I've added a section with vicious Anti-Semitism that encourages mudering Jews. I hope that helps to show that Holocaust denial is unfounded. I've added a quote from someone who thinks it's sickening. Proxima Centauri 2 ( talk) 17:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I have heard that the melody to "Die Fahne Hoch" is an old North German marching song. At least one on-line source (Deutsche Volkslieder: www.ingeb.org) attributes, with reservations, the same melody to "der Abenteurer" from the opera "Joseph" or "Josef von Agypten" by Etienne Mehul (1763- 1817). Horst Wessel was from Westphalia in Northwest Germany. The melody itself seems similar to "Erika", written by Herms Niel about 1930 and widely dissemeindted by Josef Gobbels, who also disseminated "Die Fahne Hoch" and who was from the Ruhr, also in Northwest Germany. It is also interesting to note that Mehul was, according to the Wikipedia entry, from the Ardennes (bit west and south of the North Rhein Westphalia area), he studied under a German music teacher in the Ardennes and that the Kingdom of Westphalia was a French sattillate state during the First Empire in 1807 when Mehul wrote "Joseph". There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests the melody to "Die Fahne Hoch" is something traditional to Northwest Germany east of the Rhein and west of Berlin, and not Austria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.13.250 ( talk) 18:12, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
It seems to be an outside Sweden seldom noticed fact, that the melody is very similar to the broadside ballad Alpens ros (Rose of the Alp). This is said to be an originally German song, translated into Swedish and published in 1871 by Wilhelmine Hoffman, born in Denmark and the widow of a circus rider. She supported herself and three children as an itinerant entertainer.
A traditional style recording of Alpens ros, speeded up and with some verses omitted to fit a 78 rpm record.
A guitar rock version from 1961
Fairhair45 ( talk) 08:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I added part of this text to the article here my text starts with, "Another version was". I assume the text by unknown 2nd World War authors isn't copyright but Wikipedians who specialize in copyright issues should check. I have translated the text into English after giving time to sort out the copyright, again my text starts with, "Another version was". Proxima Centauri ( talk) 10:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
"Du Bösen Qb" was in the parodies section of the article. A web search reveals nothing. Does the term mean anything or is it a test edit that got overlooked? An unregistered user added that, the user did only that one edit. I've taken it out but anyone who knows that the term means anything can restore it, please give a reference if you do. Proxima Centauri ( talk) 07:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
An editor wants to have the title of this section reverted to "Fascist use outside Germany. I think the additional term is both redundant and presumptuous: It should be assumed that anyone (a person or an organisation) using this song would have Far Right political beliefs. On the other hand, we cannot presume to have proof that the users are all of fascist ideology. (The respective Wikipedia articles on the users describe them as " Far Right".) Any opinions? - The Gnome ( talk) 09:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
What happened to the lyrics of the song? It looks like they were deleted, the only lyrics that are shown are just either later additions to the song or parodies. 174.50.171.199 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
An article about a song and it includes lyrics from parodies but it doesn't include the original lyrics of the ACTUAL SONG, what gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.85.63 ( talk) 03:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The text says that the Nazi salute was made on the first and fourth verses, that are equal, but these verses are not equal, other verses are. Either those were not the verses or it shouldn't be said that they are equal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.136.158.47 ( talk) 10:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
"The 'reactionaries' were the conservative political parties and the liberal democratic German government of the Weimar Republic period, which made several unsuccessful attempts to suppress the SA."
How the hell is this true? Reactionaries are anti-[what I bolded]. — User000name ( talk) 07:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Following WP:COMMONNAME, I have moved the article to the common name of the song in English, which is "The Horst Wessel Song". There is no policy-based reason for it to be at the German name on this Wikipedia. BMK ( talk) 04:49, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Consider revising first two sentences.
"With the end of the Nazi regime in May 1945, "The Horst Wessel Song" was banned. The lyrics and tune are now illegal in Germany and Austria for any purpose other than educational ones."
The law prohibits the distribution or public use of the song, but there are numerous exemptions for art, civil enlightenment, journalism, research and science. From the Wikipedia article regarding the Strafgesetzbuch section 86a law: "(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. […]"
The second sentence only mentions one of the exemptions, educational.
Several artistic performances have taken place in Germany including, Karlheinz Stockhausen's Hymnen which contains a recording of the Horst Wessel Song (source: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/154/Hymnen).
This misleading verbiage is also repeated in the Popular Culture section: "...The Horst Wessel Song, which is banned in Germany and Austria..."
Also note, there is no reference for "The lyrics and tune are now illegal in...Austria..." Needs reference to Austrian law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tor Tiiktok ( talk • contribs) 23:30, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
In the Far-right use outside Germany section, the French language version is allegated to be sung by the Milice française; however, it seems, given the rest of the lyrics (two versions here and here), and the fact the anthem of the Milice was the Chant des Cohortes, that it was the Légion des Volontaires Français or the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French) who sung this. -- Jean Po ( talk) 16:18, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused by the recent edits. As far as I know "Die Not" can be all kinds of hardship and "äußerste Not" or similar would convey extreme poverty. Pinkbeast ( talk) 17:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
So, ah, which is it? Unless Weidemann had escaped Germany - my German is insufficient for the cite - in which case that might usefully be noted. Pinkbeast ( talk) 01:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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The article states that "Wessel's funeral was elaborately staged to be as provocative to the Communists as possible". Can somebody elaborate on this? What does this mean? I would like to request some extra information on this funeral, and for someone to add that information to the article. In the meantime, I added a {{ clarify}} template. Duivelwaan ( talk) 01:11, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
After changing Strasse to Straße, I got this interesting feedback by User:Beyond My Ken. I prefer to continue the discussion here. -- Nillurcheier ( talk) 16:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Copied from my talk page: Unless you want to brought up on the noticeboards for admninistrator sanctioning, I would suggest that you do not replace English-langauge spelling with German-language spelling again. This is English-language Wikipedia, and the "ß" is nota feature of the English language. If you want to use that, I would suggest you go and edit German Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 10:30, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Well, BMK does have another supporter, but unfortunately I didn't see this thread in a timely manner; otoh it doesn't seem to be closed, either. There is no letter eszett in English. As someone who reads and translates articles from German, I'd say that this is en-wiki, and we should write German loanwords using the English alphabet unless the preponderance of reliable sources in English use the German spelling. So, " gummi bear" (not * Gummibär); " muesli" (not * Müsli), and "Strasse" not Straße. I can certainly see introducing the eszett in a foreign-spelling parenthetical appositive in the first sentence as suggested by MOS:FORLANG, but I see no reason to use eszett in the title just because they do so in German, unless, of course, that's what the preponderance of English language sources do, which does not (yet?) appear to be the case with Straße. Mathglot ( talk) 02:34, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The lyrics were recently changed and then reverted with an edit summary "see talk". I see no discussion which declares the previous version better. Here is a comparison:
Previous | Recent | |
---|---|---|
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen! |
Raise the flag! The ranks tightly closed! |
Our flag is high! Ours ranks are in formation! |
There is no special imprimatur for the previous version. I think the recent version has a better flow and metre and should be restored. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 12:59, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
There is a clear consensus to exclude this article from Category:Obscenity controversies in music.
Should this article be included in Category:Obscenity controversies in music? Beyond My Ken ( talk) 05:25, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
The Horst-Wessel-Lied was never the (or a) national anthem of nazi Germany. It was always played after the anthem (on Hitler orders) and is therefore confused, but it only was the anthem of NSDAP. It is correcly described in the main article, but not in the intro above the contents section. Please check and change. 47.71.27.83 ( talk) 07:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Removed part about the lyrics being ambigious about whether the "kameraden" got shot by communists/"the reaction" or whether they were shooting them.
There is no controversy there, since the next line in the song is "march with us in spirit/as ghosts".
The "SA men are shooting communists/the reaction" interpretation therefore only makes sense, if Wessel believed that the SA men were aided by an army of bolshevik-shooting ghosts.
I have seen no reference to this belief in any reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.38.137.160 ( talk) 20:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken:, since you wanna discuss. As i commented the reduction: nor text or rhythm allows a parody in that way. the song belongs to the militaria in the third reich as whole.
The most notable English-language parody [1] was written by Oliver Wallace to a similar melody and titled " Der Fuehrer's Face" for the 1942 Donald Duck cartoon of the same name. It was the first hit record for Spike Jones. The opening lyrics give the flavor of the song: When der Fuehrer says we is de master race We "Heil!" (pffft), "Heil!" (pffft) right in der Fuehrer's face Not to love der Fuehrer is a great disgrace So we "Heil!" (pffft), "Heil!" (pffft) right in der Fuehrer's face<ref> "Der Fuehrer's Face", songlyrics.com</ref Each "Heil!" is followed by a Bronx cheer.
To be clear: I don't doubt the sentences, I just don't see that they are at the right point in this lemma. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 13:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
References
The Infobox stated:
Former co-national anthem of Germany Also known as "Die Fahne hoch" (English: "Raise the Flag") Lyrics Horst Wessel, 1929 Published 1929 Adopted 1933 Relinquished 1945 Preceded by "Deutschlandlied" (as sole national anthem) Succeeded by "Ich hab' mich ergeben" and "Hymne an Deutschland" (by West Germany) "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" (by East Germany) "Bundeshymne der Republik Österreich" (by Austria)
That's wrong in more than one way. First of all, that song was a song of the SA not Germany or third reich. Also theres no Co-Anthem. Nor it was succeed by any song, since theres different countries. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 14:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The city Konigsberg was a german city and region at the baltic sea. The text corresponds that. Which mind accocciates a boat with the time at the beach and can write this (sorry for this) brainfart down and get it in for so long. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 14:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:16, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Apokrif ( talk) 16:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations
Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; ... means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. ... Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. § 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations
Whoever: domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto. The exceptions from §86 subsection (3) and (4) apply accordingly.
Also, please acknowledge that even some Jews payed the third reich actively. These people abuse their minors, just as well as actual Satanist occultists, other pedocrimers in general and therefore, they should be hopelessly unindexed in the Wikipedia for this reason, if the audio in question is not and never also containing any thoughtful social distancing from this crap. Crap is crap.
Is it possible please to condone thoughtful unindexation of anything antidemocracy-related without such as sentimenting added up to it here? Thx in advance here.
-- 94.134.91.54 ( talk) 05:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Why is the Austrian anthem listed as a successor? Adrianolusius ( talk) 22:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
I removed all copyrighted lyrics which are not public domain, similar to this removal per consensus in The Internationale after 18 years. 14.228.138.192 ( talk) 13:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
No 179.53.28.255 ( talk) 22:31, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@ En Ali 179.53.28.255 ( talk) 22:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Should we include as "Party anthem of the NSDAP", unlike Taiwanese national anthem article. 49.150.0.134 ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)
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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Horst-Wessel-Lied was copied or moved into Horst Wessel with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
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Perhaps a brief line explaining how Der Fuhrer's Face parodied the song would be in order, as it's not entirely readily apparent when listening to the two tunes. 156.34.221.174 14:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
What abowt telling us about the circumstances of Horst Wessels death and why the Nazis chose him as the subject of the song?— Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.11.217 ( talk • contribs) 17:35, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
And how about posting the lyrics? Me and my friends like churning out some campfire songs, so I'd like to know what I'm singing.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.249.27.160 ( talk • contribs) 14:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
The article claims "The line "Kameraden, die Rotfront und Reaktion erschossen" is bad German."
This may not be the greatest line of German poetry ever written, but it is grammatically perfectly fine without having to assume that auxiliary verbs have been omitted. erschossen is 3rd person plural of the simple past tense of the verb erschießen. Translated literally, the line means Comrades, whom Red Front and Reaction shot dead. AlOgrady ( talk) 00:21, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
"Kälbermarsch" should be added to the parodies because it's by Bertolt Brecht —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.215.119.110 ( talk) 06:54, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
What's the copyright position? Under the 70 year rule, it's only PD if the author died before 1936. And is the translation the editor's own or copied from somewhere?-- Brownlee 12:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Is there any reason (such as the German law, though I doubt this has any effect) the original German lyrics are not shown in the article? ProhibitOnions (T) 21:08, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
"A singable English translation: Raise high the flag, close ranks, now all together, Storm Troopers march, with firm and steady tread. Souls of our comrades shot by Reds and by the enemy March with us too, and swell the ranks ahead.
Make way, make way now for the brown battalion. Make way for storm troops as they march along. We raise the swastika, the hope of many millions, The day of freedom and of bread has come.
The bugle sounds its final call to battle, We stand at arms, we're ready for the fight. Soon Hitler's flags will wave o'er every street and byway The end of slav’ry comes with morning light."
excuse me but is it really necessary to add a "singable english translation" of that song into the article? in my opinion it´s just wasted space and so i deleted it. mfg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.254.39 ( talk) 05:19, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be moved to Horst-Wessel-Lied. The title is in German and the correct german spelling is Horst-Wessel-Lied. -- ° 11:20, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
I need to tell that the lyrics in the article aren't fully correct. The following weren't correct: In the trird textblock they say:
and the following is also incorrect:
I only wanted your oppinion about if I must change it or not...
Another thing what was said in the article isn't correct either i thought. They say that the Horst-Wessel-Lied was the national anthem during the second world war, but this isn't true according to many people I've spoken. Could anny one confirm this?
-- KnorXone ( talk) 19:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I have rewritten and expanded this article, largely using the linked paper by Broderick. There are some relevant photos here but I would want an opinion on their copyright status before I uploaded them. (General inquiry: what is the copyright status of "official" photos and artwork from the Third Reich under current German law? There seems to be an assumption at Wikipedia that because the Third Reich is defunct, copyright does not apply to its relics). Adam 04:50, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I've reformatted the lyrics and translations; the old version was unreadable. You may wish to fiddle some more with the presentation but please avoid excessive italics. They are very hard to read in big blocks. No need to grind in the fact that they are lyrics or that some are in German, some in English. Okay? John Reid ° 13:24, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
A subtlety is lost in translation. The German text contains "Rotfront", which was a standard abbreviation for Rotfrontkämpferbund, who frequently clashed with SA. The KPD idea was Rot Front (written as two words). `' mikkanarxi 18:23, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Some decided that "Horst-Wessel-Lied" is song title. Its title was " Die Fahne hoch!". "Horst-Wessel-Lied" means simply " Horst Wessel's song", and that "Lied" starts with the capital letter (which could hint that is a title) is accidental, because in German language nouns are written from capitals. Therefore the article must be either moved under its original title Die Fahne hoch! or under its English name, which is Horst Wessel song.
Opinions, please. `' mikkanarxi 18:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, don't panic. I didn't start moving the article from its current place, however strange for an English reader the title is now. `' mikkanarxi 01:10, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
The name of the song is "Horst-Wessel-Lied". Maybe Wessel himself called his words "die Fahne hoch" - after his death in 1930 and especially from 1933-1945 when the song was part of a sort of national anthem, it was officially named "Horst-Wessel-Lied".
mfg norbert —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.76.254.39 ( talk) 05:31, 30 July 2008 (UTC)
In Ruth Lewin Sime's biography of Lise Meitner, the lyrics (IIRC) "when Jewish blood spurts from our knives, we will feel twice as good!" or something very similar are stated to be a part of the Horst Wessel lied. I've seen words to this effect noted in a few other descriptions of the song. But I can't find these lyrics in any official version. Does anyone know how they fit into the song/story of the song? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wiserd911 ( talk • contribs) 03:31, 25 January 2007 (UTC).
There were "official" lyrics to the song, which followed fairly closely what Wessel wrote - his manuscript can be seen online. These are as given in the article. There were also many unofficial lyrics, some of which are given in the article. I have seen references to the line you quote, but I have never seen a set of lyrics which incorporates it. Adam 10:25, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
i changed the english translation, it must be "shot dead BY red front and reaction". in the german original "...die rotfront und reaktion erschossen" we have an accusativ and not a nominativ use of "die" (german native speaker)
I changed the English translation, because the earlier version wasn't idiomatic English, although not usually incorrect. I changed "Red Front" to "Reds" because it sounds more like English, but please change it back if you think the actual words "Red Front" are important-- I don't think they are because that is explained later. In English, "Reaction" and "Reactionaries" have two completely different meanings so I changed that too. I had always wondered what the words are to this song, since books about Nazi Germany are always referring to it. Thanks to whoever posted the original German.
Evangeline ( talk) 01:22, 14 February 2009 (UTC)Evangeline
I don't quite get why it is necessary to include text for a singable English version, unless you want to encourage people to sing the song in English. Considering the historical context of the song that seems rather insensitive. Since it is not required for the accuracy or completeness of the article I propose removing the singable version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.225.81.43 ( talk) 05:30, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Very POV ( 80.136.127.163 ( talk) 11:42, 30 August 2011 (UTC))
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I removed an addition of a modern set of lyrics written by George Lincoln Rockwell because the anonymous user said it was "1960s". There are a number of copies of it around [1] [2], however I cant pin down publication details quickly. I did find that This Time the World (1960) is public domain because it wasnt renewed, but this text isnt in there. John Vandenberg ( chat) 00:31, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
I've added a section with vicious Anti-Semitism that encourages mudering Jews. I hope that helps to show that Holocaust denial is unfounded. I've added a quote from someone who thinks it's sickening. Proxima Centauri 2 ( talk) 17:06, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I have heard that the melody to "Die Fahne Hoch" is an old North German marching song. At least one on-line source (Deutsche Volkslieder: www.ingeb.org) attributes, with reservations, the same melody to "der Abenteurer" from the opera "Joseph" or "Josef von Agypten" by Etienne Mehul (1763- 1817). Horst Wessel was from Westphalia in Northwest Germany. The melody itself seems similar to "Erika", written by Herms Niel about 1930 and widely dissemeindted by Josef Gobbels, who also disseminated "Die Fahne Hoch" and who was from the Ruhr, also in Northwest Germany. It is also interesting to note that Mehul was, according to the Wikipedia entry, from the Ardennes (bit west and south of the North Rhein Westphalia area), he studied under a German music teacher in the Ardennes and that the Kingdom of Westphalia was a French sattillate state during the First Empire in 1807 when Mehul wrote "Joseph". There is a lot of circumstantial evidence that suggests the melody to "Die Fahne Hoch" is something traditional to Northwest Germany east of the Rhein and west of Berlin, and not Austria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.13.250 ( talk) 18:12, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
It seems to be an outside Sweden seldom noticed fact, that the melody is very similar to the broadside ballad Alpens ros (Rose of the Alp). This is said to be an originally German song, translated into Swedish and published in 1871 by Wilhelmine Hoffman, born in Denmark and the widow of a circus rider. She supported herself and three children as an itinerant entertainer.
A traditional style recording of Alpens ros, speeded up and with some verses omitted to fit a 78 rpm record.
A guitar rock version from 1961
Fairhair45 ( talk) 08:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
I added part of this text to the article here my text starts with, "Another version was". I assume the text by unknown 2nd World War authors isn't copyright but Wikipedians who specialize in copyright issues should check. I have translated the text into English after giving time to sort out the copyright, again my text starts with, "Another version was". Proxima Centauri ( talk) 10:33, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
"Du Bösen Qb" was in the parodies section of the article. A web search reveals nothing. Does the term mean anything or is it a test edit that got overlooked? An unregistered user added that, the user did only that one edit. I've taken it out but anyone who knows that the term means anything can restore it, please give a reference if you do. Proxima Centauri ( talk) 07:41, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
An editor wants to have the title of this section reverted to "Fascist use outside Germany. I think the additional term is both redundant and presumptuous: It should be assumed that anyone (a person or an organisation) using this song would have Far Right political beliefs. On the other hand, we cannot presume to have proof that the users are all of fascist ideology. (The respective Wikipedia articles on the users describe them as " Far Right".) Any opinions? - The Gnome ( talk) 09:10, 1 August 2013 (UTC)
What happened to the lyrics of the song? It looks like they were deleted, the only lyrics that are shown are just either later additions to the song or parodies. 174.50.171.199 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:35, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
An article about a song and it includes lyrics from parodies but it doesn't include the original lyrics of the ACTUAL SONG, what gives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.140.85.63 ( talk) 03:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)
The text says that the Nazi salute was made on the first and fourth verses, that are equal, but these verses are not equal, other verses are. Either those were not the verses or it shouldn't be said that they are equal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.136.158.47 ( talk) 10:11, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
"The 'reactionaries' were the conservative political parties and the liberal democratic German government of the Weimar Republic period, which made several unsuccessful attempts to suppress the SA."
How the hell is this true? Reactionaries are anti-[what I bolded]. — User000name ( talk) 07:43, 16 March 2015 (UTC)
Following WP:COMMONNAME, I have moved the article to the common name of the song in English, which is "The Horst Wessel Song". There is no policy-based reason for it to be at the German name on this Wikipedia. BMK ( talk) 04:49, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
Consider revising first two sentences.
"With the end of the Nazi regime in May 1945, "The Horst Wessel Song" was banned. The lyrics and tune are now illegal in Germany and Austria for any purpose other than educational ones."
The law prohibits the distribution or public use of the song, but there are numerous exemptions for art, civil enlightenment, journalism, research and science. From the Wikipedia article regarding the Strafgesetzbuch section 86a law: "(3) Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. […]"
The second sentence only mentions one of the exemptions, educational.
Several artistic performances have taken place in Germany including, Karlheinz Stockhausen's Hymnen which contains a recording of the Horst Wessel Song (source: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/CCRMA/Courses/154/Hymnen).
This misleading verbiage is also repeated in the Popular Culture section: "...The Horst Wessel Song, which is banned in Germany and Austria..."
Also note, there is no reference for "The lyrics and tune are now illegal in...Austria..." Needs reference to Austrian law. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tor Tiiktok ( talk • contribs) 23:30, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
In the Far-right use outside Germany section, the French language version is allegated to be sung by the Milice française; however, it seems, given the rest of the lyrics (two versions here and here), and the fact the anthem of the Milice was the Chant des Cohortes, that it was the Légion des Volontaires Français or the 33rd Waffen Grenadier Division of the SS Charlemagne (1st French) who sung this. -- Jean Po ( talk) 16:18, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused by the recent edits. As far as I know "Die Not" can be all kinds of hardship and "äußerste Not" or similar would convey extreme poverty. Pinkbeast ( talk) 17:04, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
So, ah, which is it? Unless Weidemann had escaped Germany - my German is insufficient for the cite - in which case that might usefully be noted. Pinkbeast ( talk) 01:59, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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The article states that "Wessel's funeral was elaborately staged to be as provocative to the Communists as possible". Can somebody elaborate on this? What does this mean? I would like to request some extra information on this funeral, and for someone to add that information to the article. In the meantime, I added a {{ clarify}} template. Duivelwaan ( talk) 01:11, 21 June 2017 (UTC)
After changing Strasse to Straße, I got this interesting feedback by User:Beyond My Ken. I prefer to continue the discussion here. -- Nillurcheier ( talk) 16:12, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Copied from my talk page: Unless you want to brought up on the noticeboards for admninistrator sanctioning, I would suggest that you do not replace English-langauge spelling with German-language spelling again. This is English-language Wikipedia, and the "ß" is nota feature of the English language. If you want to use that, I would suggest you go and edit German Wikipedia. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 10:30, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
Well, BMK does have another supporter, but unfortunately I didn't see this thread in a timely manner; otoh it doesn't seem to be closed, either. There is no letter eszett in English. As someone who reads and translates articles from German, I'd say that this is en-wiki, and we should write German loanwords using the English alphabet unless the preponderance of reliable sources in English use the German spelling. So, " gummi bear" (not * Gummibär); " muesli" (not * Müsli), and "Strasse" not Straße. I can certainly see introducing the eszett in a foreign-spelling parenthetical appositive in the first sentence as suggested by MOS:FORLANG, but I see no reason to use eszett in the title just because they do so in German, unless, of course, that's what the preponderance of English language sources do, which does not (yet?) appear to be the case with Straße. Mathglot ( talk) 02:34, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The lyrics were recently changed and then reverted with an edit summary "see talk". I see no discussion which declares the previous version better. Here is a comparison:
Previous | Recent | |
---|---|---|
Die Fahne hoch! Die Reihen fest geschlossen! |
Raise the flag! The ranks tightly closed! |
Our flag is high! Ours ranks are in formation! |
There is no special imprimatur for the previous version. I think the recent version has a better flow and metre and should be restored. -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 12:59, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
There is a clear consensus to exclude this article from Category:Obscenity controversies in music.
Should this article be included in Category:Obscenity controversies in music? Beyond My Ken ( talk) 05:25, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
The Horst-Wessel-Lied was never the (or a) national anthem of nazi Germany. It was always played after the anthem (on Hitler orders) and is therefore confused, but it only was the anthem of NSDAP. It is correcly described in the main article, but not in the intro above the contents section. Please check and change. 47.71.27.83 ( talk) 07:09, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
Removed part about the lyrics being ambigious about whether the "kameraden" got shot by communists/"the reaction" or whether they were shooting them.
There is no controversy there, since the next line in the song is "march with us in spirit/as ghosts".
The "SA men are shooting communists/the reaction" interpretation therefore only makes sense, if Wessel believed that the SA men were aided by an army of bolshevik-shooting ghosts.
I have seen no reference to this belief in any reliable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.38.137.160 ( talk) 20:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:22, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
@ Beyond My Ken:, since you wanna discuss. As i commented the reduction: nor text or rhythm allows a parody in that way. the song belongs to the militaria in the third reich as whole.
The most notable English-language parody [1] was written by Oliver Wallace to a similar melody and titled " Der Fuehrer's Face" for the 1942 Donald Duck cartoon of the same name. It was the first hit record for Spike Jones. The opening lyrics give the flavor of the song: When der Fuehrer says we is de master race We "Heil!" (pffft), "Heil!" (pffft) right in der Fuehrer's face Not to love der Fuehrer is a great disgrace So we "Heil!" (pffft), "Heil!" (pffft) right in der Fuehrer's face<ref> "Der Fuehrer's Face", songlyrics.com</ref Each "Heil!" is followed by a Bronx cheer.
To be clear: I don't doubt the sentences, I just don't see that they are at the right point in this lemma. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 13:38, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
References
The Infobox stated:
Former co-national anthem of Germany Also known as "Die Fahne hoch" (English: "Raise the Flag") Lyrics Horst Wessel, 1929 Published 1929 Adopted 1933 Relinquished 1945 Preceded by "Deutschlandlied" (as sole national anthem) Succeeded by "Ich hab' mich ergeben" and "Hymne an Deutschland" (by West Germany) "Auferstanden aus Ruinen" (by East Germany) "Bundeshymne der Republik Österreich" (by Austria)
That's wrong in more than one way. First of all, that song was a song of the SA not Germany or third reich. Also theres no Co-Anthem. Nor it was succeed by any song, since theres different countries. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 14:31, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The city Konigsberg was a german city and region at the baltic sea. The text corresponds that. Which mind accocciates a boat with the time at the beach and can write this (sorry for this) brainfart down and get it in for so long. -- [[User:Gunnar.offel|Gunnar]] <sup>[[User talk:Gunnar.offel|💬]]</sup> ( talk) 14:37, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:16, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Apokrif ( talk) 16:39, 25 February 2021 (UTC)
§ 86 StGB Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations
Whoever domestically disseminates or produces, stocks, imports or exports or makes publicly accessible through data storage media for dissemination domestically or abroad, means of propaganda: of a party which has been declared to be unconstitutional by the Federal Constitutional Court or a party or organization, as to which it has been determined, no longer subject to appeal, that it is a substitute organization of such a party; ... means of propaganda, the contents of which are intended to further the aims of a former National Socialist organization, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. ... Subsection (1) shall not be applicable if the means of propaganda or the act serves to further civil enlightenment, to avert unconstitutional aims, to promote art or science, research or teaching, reporting about current historical events or similar purposes. § 86a StGB Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations
Whoever: domestically distributes or publicly uses, in a meeting or in writings (§ 11 subsection (3)) disseminated by him, symbols of one of the parties or organizations indicated in § 86 subsection (1), nos. 1, 2 and 4; or produces, stocks, imports or exports objects which depict or contain such symbols for distribution or use domestically or abroad, in the manner indicated in number 1, shall be punished with imprisonment for not more than three years or a fine. Symbols, within the meaning of subsection (1), shall be, in particular, flags, insignia, uniforms, slogans and forms of greeting. Symbols which are so similar as to be mistaken for those named in sentence 1 shall be deemed to be equivalent thereto. The exceptions from §86 subsection (3) and (4) apply accordingly.
Also, please acknowledge that even some Jews payed the third reich actively. These people abuse their minors, just as well as actual Satanist occultists, other pedocrimers in general and therefore, they should be hopelessly unindexed in the Wikipedia for this reason, if the audio in question is not and never also containing any thoughtful social distancing from this crap. Crap is crap.
Is it possible please to condone thoughtful unindexation of anything antidemocracy-related without such as sentimenting added up to it here? Thx in advance here.
-- 94.134.91.54 ( talk) 05:02, 20 January 2022 (UTC)
Why is the Austrian anthem listed as a successor? Adrianolusius ( talk) 22:47, 16 April 2022 (UTC)
I removed all copyrighted lyrics which are not public domain, similar to this removal per consensus in The Internationale after 18 years. 14.228.138.192 ( talk) 13:55, 25 September 2022 (UTC)
No 179.53.28.255 ( talk) 22:31, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
@ En Ali 179.53.28.255 ( talk) 22:32, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Should we include as "Party anthem of the NSDAP", unlike Taiwanese national anthem article. 49.150.0.134 ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2023 (UTC)