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Just came across this old Daily Telegraph article about the horse Warrior ( Jack Seely's charger) which survived WWI, apparently regarded as a national hero, and lived to the age of 33 in 1941, when unfortunately WWII rationing led to him being put down http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1582562/The-mighty-Warrior-who-led-one-of-historys-last-ever-cavalry-charges.html. An interesting sidelight on the horses of World War I? David Underdown ( talk) 14:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Potential new source, for when I get back to this article: Book discussing chemical warfare and horses. Dana boomer ( talk) 16:04, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
This is a Google Maps street view of the monument in Minneapolis, a mention of which I added to the article. Michael Hardy ( talk) 20:41, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I was reading through the article, and it says Britain lost 120% of its equine forces in the Boer war? Is this possible - to lose everything you have, plus an extra 20% that you didn't? A table of equine losses is available in the following article supplied by the Australian military : www.army.gov.au/ahu/docs/The_Boer_War_Spence.pdf . Survivors of 150,000 were quoted by the Australian military source ... so it definitely did not look like 100%. By doing out the math, I came to a loss rate of 69.4%. It's a very nasty number, but it's more realistic and probable than the quoted "120%" in the Wiki article. Since this article is featured, and I have only done my limited research - I strongly suggest that others join me in verifying the 120% number. Incorrect information should definitely not be in an article, a featured one no less. I'm trying to puzzle out how a loss of 120% could be figured ... but I'm having a tough time here.
I will attempt to find the cited source to verify the validity of the numbers provided in this article. Assistance in this task, would be appreciated. -- Kyanwan ( talk) 21:17, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
The source cited unfortunately overlooked a number of operations fought during the Palestine, Jordanian and Syrian campaigns. Is there some way the following, including links to two Wikipedia good articles, can be incorporated into the Horses in World War 1 article?
The Anzac Mounted Division formed in Egypt in 1916 and was composed of four Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) mounted brigades from the Australian Light Horse and the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade. All had fought at Gallipoli as infantry. Members of the division engaged Turkish troops at the Suez Canal in mid-1916. They successfully stopped a major German led Ottoman advance at the Battle of Romani and captured major Turkish strongholds at Magdhaba in August and December 1916 and at the Rafah in early 1917. Along with British infantry, they participated mounted in the First, dismounted in the Second and mounted in the Third Battles of Gaza. As a result of casualties the Anzac Mounted Division was reformed with three brigades and the Australian Mounted Division was formed about this time with three brigades. These two divisions were, along with the Yeomanry Mounted Division were formed into Desert Mounted Corps and along with British infantry participated mounted and dismounted in the Battle of Mughar Ridge and dismounted in the Battle of Jerusalem (1917) in 1917. In February 1918 along with British infantry Jericho; the Anzac Mounted Division and 60th (London) Infantry Division participating in the First Transjordan attack on Amman (1918). These two divisions along with the Australian Mounted Division participated in the Second Transjordan attack on Shunet Nimrin and Es Salt across the Jordan River. The Desert Mounted Corps occupied the Jordan Valley during the summer. In mid September as part of the Battle of Megiddo the Anzac Mounted Division captured Amman (capturing 10,300 prisoners in nine days), while the Australian and Yeomanry Mounted Divisions along with the XXth and XXIst Infantry Corps, participated in the main attack on Ottoman positions on the coast which led to the capture of Damascus. After the armistice troopers reoccupied Gallipoli in December 1918. [1] -- Rskp ( talk) 03:57, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
References
Hello, do you have something about this picture : ? Nothing about The Blue Cross Fund in the article. -- Tsaag Valren ( talk) 15:42, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just had my attention drawn to The War Horses: The Tragic Fate of a Million Horses Sacrificed in the First World War, Simon Butler, ISBN 978-0857040848, according to the Amzon bumph it "concentrates upon those groups of animals who were requisitioned rather than those `professionally' employed by the cavalry, in other words the horses, mules and donkeys who took on the drudgery of heaving rations, guns and munitions up to the front line, returning with wounded and maimed men. The author draws upon over 200 photographs and eye-witness accounts to illustrate the actuality of war and the vital role played by the horse on the Western Front. Poignant memoirs reveal the bond formed between the fighting men and the animals in their care; remarkable stories of compassion and kindness set against the harrowing background of `The War to End All Wars'." David Underdown ( talk) 14:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Can you tell me what operations 'Members of the division engaged Turkish troops at the Suez Canal in mid-1916,' refers to? As far as I know Ottoman troops only actually reached the Suez Canal in 1915 when they were fought off (from memory) by Indian Imperial Service troops. -- Rskp ( talk) 03:51, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
'The division carried rifles, bayonets and machine guns, generally using horses as swift transport and dismounting to fight.' For a particularly good example of this fighting style in action, so to speak, see ' Battle of Mughar Ridge Aftermath 4.1 14 November - Action of Ayun Kara.' Do you think it might be possible to add a link? -- Rskp ( talk) 05:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The Brooke Hospital for Animals had its inception in a lady coming to Cairo in 1930 and seeing lots of ill-treated ex-warhorses. Refs Brooke website, recent magazine article mentioning it. The article also mentions a warhorse-related exhibition starting in October at the National Army Museum in London (not the IWM), ref here NAM 86.138.46.203 ( talk) 08:13, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I know that there is sensitivity about changes to an FA standard article but a minor error does appear in the introduction sentence which reads: "The Central Powers, Germany and Austria–Hungary, stopped using them (horses) on the Western Front soon after the war began". In fact no Austro-Hungarian units of any branch served in France or Belgium during the War and the k.u.k. cavalry saw action only on the Eastern Front, against Russia and Serbia (though on an extensive scale during the opening weeks of the conflict). Just being pedantic. Buistr ( talk) 06:07, 4 November 2011 (UTC)no
While I like the new images that were added, Montanabw is correct that proper licensing is especially important for images being placed in a article that is FA-status. Here are the images:
If you have any questions regarding these images, please let me know. I'm searched long and hard for the images that are currently in the article, and I'm always on the lookout for more varied, informative and better-quality images to add in. Thanks, Dana boomer ( talk) 00:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Hey! Lookee what I found! Cool? Should we add it if there is a place and licensing is OK?? File:USArmyVetHospitalWWIOperationInProgress.jpg Montanabw (talk) 17:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
I tossed this, at least temporarily, from the article mainspace until we can review sources and edit the text, which doesn't flow real well with the rest of the article. Montanabw (talk) 06:40, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
The Second Army returned from the Italian front in May 1918 to the Ypres salient, subsequently advancing through to the Rhine during the final offensive. [1] Veterinary sections were tested during these advances and pursuits when their access to the railway may remain the same, resulting in conducting parties convoying sick animals over extended distances. [2] Among the plans made prior to the final advance were the evacuation of sick and wounded animals. Marching cases were to be sent along unfrequented road, when a series of short stages of "sick-horse halts" were arranged for the animals from each division, on their march to the reception veterinary hospital at St. Omer administered by the DDVS Second Army (formerly No. 23 Advanced Veterinary Hospital). River transport was also planned while rail was reserved for more serious cases. [3] During the final offensive, a large proportion of the casualties suffered by the Second Army; 431 (260 fatal) from enemy shellfire and 69 (44) fatal) from bombs were "evacuated by the barges under ideal conditions for this type of cases." [4]
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help)@ Dana boomer: not sure if we can add anything from this, but interesting. Montanabw (talk) 03:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
References
It seems to me that the line "In 1914, estimates put Britain's horse population at between 20,000 and 25,000. This shortfall required the US to help with remount efforts, even before it had formally entered the war" is incorrect, at least according to the source quoted at the end of the next sentence. The archived website linked to (the International Museum of the Horse) states "By 1914, the British had only 20,000 horses and the United States was called upon to supply the allied forces with remounts". I think the person who originally wrote it may have mistaken "the British" for "Britain" whereas it is much more likely to be referring to "the British armed forces".
Am I correct in saying that or am I, in fact, the one misinterpreting it? - Asthmastronaut ( talk) 19:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
The article notes that "Germany initially made extensive use of cavalry" citing several clashes with British mounted troops in 1914. While highly publicized by British media who still expected wars to begin in the traditional style with horses and sabers (see almost any issue of the Illustrated London News for August-September 1914) these were little more than skirmishes, involving squadrons or less on either side. A recently published book "'The last Great Cavalry Charge" ( ISBN 978-1-78155-183-7) details the "Battle of the Silver Helmets" at Halen in Belgium on 12 August 1914 when two German cavalry brigades lost 492 men and 843 horses in repeated charges against dismounted Belgian lancers and infantry. The lesson was learnt and no more large-scale cavalry actions were attempted on the Western Front. Buistr ( talk) 08:17, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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Having just read "Horsemen in No Man's Land" by David Kenyon I am armed with the means to challenge the commonly held belief that cavalry were of no use to the British Armies in France and the Low Countries 1915-1918. I intend to spend some time on this, and other, articles to correct the inaccuracies which originated as a result of comments made by Brigadier-General Sir James Edmonds and others in the official British history of WW1 - and other authors. I have placed a dispute notice on the page to make other editors aware. Leitrim Lad ( talk) 16:33, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
I have started to remove the inaccurate and unbalanced comments by some authors concerning the performance of cavalry. As a relatively inexperienced editor this is quite a large undertaking for me so if anyone feels they have advice to offer I would appreciate it.
Leitrim Lad ( talk) 16:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
It is unpopular 92.207.179.162 ( talk) 14:27, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
The entire content is duplicated 2600:1700:EA50:AC30:7DFD:FCF1:A324:2683 ( talk) 04:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
Horses in World War I is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on July 30, 2011. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by a media organization:
|
Just came across this old Daily Telegraph article about the horse Warrior ( Jack Seely's charger) which survived WWI, apparently regarded as a national hero, and lived to the age of 33 in 1941, when unfortunately WWII rationing led to him being put down http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1582562/The-mighty-Warrior-who-led-one-of-historys-last-ever-cavalry-charges.html. An interesting sidelight on the horses of World War I? David Underdown ( talk) 14:45, 19 October 2010 (UTC)
Potential new source, for when I get back to this article: Book discussing chemical warfare and horses. Dana boomer ( talk) 16:04, 14 July 2011 (UTC)
This is a Google Maps street view of the monument in Minneapolis, a mention of which I added to the article. Michael Hardy ( talk) 20:41, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
I was reading through the article, and it says Britain lost 120% of its equine forces in the Boer war? Is this possible - to lose everything you have, plus an extra 20% that you didn't? A table of equine losses is available in the following article supplied by the Australian military : www.army.gov.au/ahu/docs/The_Boer_War_Spence.pdf . Survivors of 150,000 were quoted by the Australian military source ... so it definitely did not look like 100%. By doing out the math, I came to a loss rate of 69.4%. It's a very nasty number, but it's more realistic and probable than the quoted "120%" in the Wiki article. Since this article is featured, and I have only done my limited research - I strongly suggest that others join me in verifying the 120% number. Incorrect information should definitely not be in an article, a featured one no less. I'm trying to puzzle out how a loss of 120% could be figured ... but I'm having a tough time here.
I will attempt to find the cited source to verify the validity of the numbers provided in this article. Assistance in this task, would be appreciated. -- Kyanwan ( talk) 21:17, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
The source cited unfortunately overlooked a number of operations fought during the Palestine, Jordanian and Syrian campaigns. Is there some way the following, including links to two Wikipedia good articles, can be incorporated into the Horses in World War 1 article?
The Anzac Mounted Division formed in Egypt in 1916 and was composed of four Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) mounted brigades from the Australian Light Horse and the New Zealand Mounted Rifles Brigade. All had fought at Gallipoli as infantry. Members of the division engaged Turkish troops at the Suez Canal in mid-1916. They successfully stopped a major German led Ottoman advance at the Battle of Romani and captured major Turkish strongholds at Magdhaba in August and December 1916 and at the Rafah in early 1917. Along with British infantry, they participated mounted in the First, dismounted in the Second and mounted in the Third Battles of Gaza. As a result of casualties the Anzac Mounted Division was reformed with three brigades and the Australian Mounted Division was formed about this time with three brigades. These two divisions were, along with the Yeomanry Mounted Division were formed into Desert Mounted Corps and along with British infantry participated mounted and dismounted in the Battle of Mughar Ridge and dismounted in the Battle of Jerusalem (1917) in 1917. In February 1918 along with British infantry Jericho; the Anzac Mounted Division and 60th (London) Infantry Division participating in the First Transjordan attack on Amman (1918). These two divisions along with the Australian Mounted Division participated in the Second Transjordan attack on Shunet Nimrin and Es Salt across the Jordan River. The Desert Mounted Corps occupied the Jordan Valley during the summer. In mid September as part of the Battle of Megiddo the Anzac Mounted Division captured Amman (capturing 10,300 prisoners in nine days), while the Australian and Yeomanry Mounted Divisions along with the XXth and XXIst Infantry Corps, participated in the main attack on Ottoman positions on the coast which led to the capture of Damascus. After the armistice troopers reoccupied Gallipoli in December 1918. [1] -- Rskp ( talk) 03:57, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
References
Hello, do you have something about this picture : ? Nothing about The Blue Cross Fund in the article. -- Tsaag Valren ( talk) 15:42, 14 August 2011 (UTC)
I've just had my attention drawn to The War Horses: The Tragic Fate of a Million Horses Sacrificed in the First World War, Simon Butler, ISBN 978-0857040848, according to the Amzon bumph it "concentrates upon those groups of animals who were requisitioned rather than those `professionally' employed by the cavalry, in other words the horses, mules and donkeys who took on the drudgery of heaving rations, guns and munitions up to the front line, returning with wounded and maimed men. The author draws upon over 200 photographs and eye-witness accounts to illustrate the actuality of war and the vital role played by the horse on the Western Front. Poignant memoirs reveal the bond formed between the fighting men and the animals in their care; remarkable stories of compassion and kindness set against the harrowing background of `The War to End All Wars'." David Underdown ( talk) 14:19, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Can you tell me what operations 'Members of the division engaged Turkish troops at the Suez Canal in mid-1916,' refers to? As far as I know Ottoman troops only actually reached the Suez Canal in 1915 when they were fought off (from memory) by Indian Imperial Service troops. -- Rskp ( talk) 03:51, 19 August 2011 (UTC)
'The division carried rifles, bayonets and machine guns, generally using horses as swift transport and dismounting to fight.' For a particularly good example of this fighting style in action, so to speak, see ' Battle of Mughar Ridge Aftermath 4.1 14 November - Action of Ayun Kara.' Do you think it might be possible to add a link? -- Rskp ( talk) 05:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)
The Brooke Hospital for Animals had its inception in a lady coming to Cairo in 1930 and seeing lots of ill-treated ex-warhorses. Refs Brooke website, recent magazine article mentioning it. The article also mentions a warhorse-related exhibition starting in October at the National Army Museum in London (not the IWM), ref here NAM 86.138.46.203 ( talk) 08:13, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I know that there is sensitivity about changes to an FA standard article but a minor error does appear in the introduction sentence which reads: "The Central Powers, Germany and Austria–Hungary, stopped using them (horses) on the Western Front soon after the war began". In fact no Austro-Hungarian units of any branch served in France or Belgium during the War and the k.u.k. cavalry saw action only on the Eastern Front, against Russia and Serbia (though on an extensive scale during the opening weeks of the conflict). Just being pedantic. Buistr ( talk) 06:07, 4 November 2011 (UTC)no
While I like the new images that were added, Montanabw is correct that proper licensing is especially important for images being placed in a article that is FA-status. Here are the images:
If you have any questions regarding these images, please let me know. I'm searched long and hard for the images that are currently in the article, and I'm always on the lookout for more varied, informative and better-quality images to add in. Thanks, Dana boomer ( talk) 00:13, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Hey! Lookee what I found! Cool? Should we add it if there is a place and licensing is OK?? File:USArmyVetHospitalWWIOperationInProgress.jpg Montanabw (talk) 17:34, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
I tossed this, at least temporarily, from the article mainspace until we can review sources and edit the text, which doesn't flow real well with the rest of the article. Montanabw (talk) 06:40, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
The Second Army returned from the Italian front in May 1918 to the Ypres salient, subsequently advancing through to the Rhine during the final offensive. [1] Veterinary sections were tested during these advances and pursuits when their access to the railway may remain the same, resulting in conducting parties convoying sick animals over extended distances. [2] Among the plans made prior to the final advance were the evacuation of sick and wounded animals. Marching cases were to be sent along unfrequented road, when a series of short stages of "sick-horse halts" were arranged for the animals from each division, on their march to the reception veterinary hospital at St. Omer administered by the DDVS Second Army (formerly No. 23 Advanced Veterinary Hospital). River transport was also planned while rail was reserved for more serious cases. [3] During the final offensive, a large proportion of the casualties suffered by the Second Army; 431 (260 fatal) from enemy shellfire and 69 (44) fatal) from bombs were "evacuated by the barges under ideal conditions for this type of cases." [4]
{{
cite book}}
: Unknown parameter |editors=
ignored (|editor=
suggested) (
help)@ Dana boomer: not sure if we can add anything from this, but interesting. Montanabw (talk) 03:02, 26 March 2014 (UTC)
References
It seems to me that the line "In 1914, estimates put Britain's horse population at between 20,000 and 25,000. This shortfall required the US to help with remount efforts, even before it had formally entered the war" is incorrect, at least according to the source quoted at the end of the next sentence. The archived website linked to (the International Museum of the Horse) states "By 1914, the British had only 20,000 horses and the United States was called upon to supply the allied forces with remounts". I think the person who originally wrote it may have mistaken "the British" for "Britain" whereas it is much more likely to be referring to "the British armed forces".
Am I correct in saying that or am I, in fact, the one misinterpreting it? - Asthmastronaut ( talk) 19:39, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
The article notes that "Germany initially made extensive use of cavalry" citing several clashes with British mounted troops in 1914. While highly publicized by British media who still expected wars to begin in the traditional style with horses and sabers (see almost any issue of the Illustrated London News for August-September 1914) these were little more than skirmishes, involving squadrons or less on either side. A recently published book "'The last Great Cavalry Charge" ( ISBN 978-1-78155-183-7) details the "Battle of the Silver Helmets" at Halen in Belgium on 12 August 1914 when two German cavalry brigades lost 492 men and 843 horses in repeated charges against dismounted Belgian lancers and infantry. The lesson was learnt and no more large-scale cavalry actions were attempted on the Western Front. Buistr ( talk) 08:17, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 22:31, 7 January 2018 (UTC)
Having just read "Horsemen in No Man's Land" by David Kenyon I am armed with the means to challenge the commonly held belief that cavalry were of no use to the British Armies in France and the Low Countries 1915-1918. I intend to spend some time on this, and other, articles to correct the inaccuracies which originated as a result of comments made by Brigadier-General Sir James Edmonds and others in the official British history of WW1 - and other authors. I have placed a dispute notice on the page to make other editors aware. Leitrim Lad ( talk) 16:33, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
I have started to remove the inaccurate and unbalanced comments by some authors concerning the performance of cavalry. As a relatively inexperienced editor this is quite a large undertaking for me so if anyone feels they have advice to offer I would appreciate it.
Leitrim Lad ( talk) 16:48, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
It is unpopular 92.207.179.162 ( talk) 14:27, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
The entire content is duplicated 2600:1700:EA50:AC30:7DFD:FCF1:A324:2683 ( talk) 04:46, 31 October 2022 (UTC)