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Alwasys wearing black, his cape is a horcrux or he himself is a horcrux? He can kill himself and ensure that Voldemort does not rise.
A possible horcrus is Harry's Advance Potions Book which he origionally borrowed from Professor Slughorn. It is said to be the property of the Half-Blood Prince, and the most likely wizard to refer to himself as a prince is Voldemort, and he himself is half-blood.
I just edited the Harry and Voldemort section because someone had put in their own editorial opinion regarding the idea of Harry being a horcrux. Although I think I agree with what they said, this is not the place to say it. I don't actually know how to say what I edited on the history page, so I am saying it here. Also, can someone kindly contact 68.230.107.245 and tell them this, they may be new to wiki (so am I, hence my lack of knowledge on technical workings of pages)
This is "68.230.107.245" here, "BrennaCeDria" (finally remembered to log myself in), the one adding the "Riddle's Award is the horcrux" items a few weeks ago. I've got some text from chapter 13 to follow it up with--about as vague and hidden as the locket was the first time we all read book 5--and I was wondering if my entry can be left more or less intact now that I've got a source? I'll put it up and see what you guys think. *thanks*
Could someone please research on where Rowling might have gotten this term?
I agree on the 'hor' as in horror part but couln't 'crux' just mean what it says in the dictionary: "an essential, basic, crucial, or pivotal point." (wordsmyth)? 'Seems to me this Horcrux idea is pretty mutch the essence of the whole Harry Potter series.
What if crux had the most simple of its latin translations and it just meant cross. As the cross is a siginicant symbol today people put great value in. Like an an icon.
Is a Horcrux a total invention of JKR or is there some mythological basis?
How's this: The fake locket is the real horcrux and Voldemort concieved the "decoy" and note as a final protection to the horcrux. Why? R.A.B was alone when he wrote the note, he knew about Voldemort, he somehow got around the potion, he detected the trace of Tom Riddle's magic, yet he was in Riddle's and Dumbledore's time. Would not the wizarding world have heard of this man who was more powerful than Dumbledore? JKR said there won't be any new major characters in HP7, so R.A.B has few potential matches. Those who do match the name are certainly inferior to Dumbledore in power, yet whoever R.A.B was, he was composed enough to write a note after taking the potion (or used stronger spells than Dumbledore had to banish it). These seem implausible. More likely is that Voldemort kept the real Locket for himself and tricked Harry into thinking that the real one had already been destroyed (so said the note); thus, if and when Harry destroys the rest, he has one left in his possession.
Is Sirius' brother R.A.B?
Besides Regulus Black (middle name unknown), no one else has been mentioned in the books with the initials R.B. It is entirely possible that J.K.R. is introducing another character, but I feel this is unlikely at this late time in the series. -StaceyV2220
Definition of Crux - The basic, central, or critical point or feature: the crux of the matter; the crux of an argument.
Sounds like a soul to me.
- Zinnober
Somehow the last paragraph or two feel like speculation. Any agreement? SujinYH 21:11, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
How about this for speculation. Is it at all conceivable that Harry Potter will destroy Voldemort and become a Dark Lord himself. He is interested in the Dark Arts and wants to become an Auror. Potentially gamekeeper turned poacher!!! Love does not conquer all. And R.A.B. has to be Regulus.
As further speculation with Regulus, remember that his brother and friends all became Animagi, so the theory would be known to him. And Peter Pettigrew successfully hid-out as Scabbers for years, and Rita Skeeter likewise has hidden her Animagus status. Plus, with judicious use of the Polyjuice Potion, a wizard on the run could hide out for years as something other than just a kid's familiar.
Regulus's reappearance would also solve the problem of the Black family inheritance.
With the false horcrux, while Tom Riddle got Slytherin's locket early-on in his reign of terror, he hadn't as yet racked up a body count large enough to fill a lake of Inferi. One would also assume he didn't sully his wand doing it all himself, but might have taken some of his Death Eaters along with him, if just to cart the bodies of the murdered Muggles. What better way for Regulus to get around the green potion than to swap out the locket beforehand?
I believe that we have seen all the horcruxes so far. i don't see J.K adding a new one in during the last book since Harry will be so busy looking for and destroying them all... Book 1- vold book 2- the diary book 3- ? book 4- nagini book 5- the locket book 6- the ring, the hufflepuff cup...so as you can see i have "found" one to two in each book but book 3 so i think there could be some merrit in this theory. I am new here so I am not sure about posting this but after reading some other posts i saw alot of them are theories to so I hope this is o.k. If it is and anyone can think of one from book 3, please put it down. 69.40.22.45 03:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC) merrick21
Regulus Black could have the middle name "Alphard". This "Alphard" being the late uncle struck from the family tree for bequeathing his entire fortune to Sirius, allowing him to live with James Potter's parents. This was explained in Grimmauld Place in The Order of the Phoenix. - Kyus.
Also explained, during the Grimmauld Place cleanup operation, is a locket that no-one could open. This could be completely unrelated, but I highly doubt this.
1. It was found in the Black Family home. 2. The whole Mundungus-stealing-from-the-Black-household idea seemed too random, and we all know JK Rowling likes to introduce seemingly uninteresting things that are opened up further in later books. I believe he stole this locket and therefore knows the whereabouts of the Horcrux.
-Kyus.
I deleted this final paragraph
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS PURLY FICTION. IT IS ON NO ACCOUNT REAL...
But wait just one second. If a horcrux is a soul, It's living. If it's living, by destroying it you kill a part of Voldemort, which would make YOU a murderer. So Harry Potter has a horcrux from killing Tom Riddle's Diary, and Dumbledore killed on too. Would that mean that, for instance, TOM RIDDLE'S DIARY IS HARRY'S HORCRUX?????
As it is unencylclopaedic and makes little sense. Any objections? -- Cruci 13:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, because you have to specifically want to make one at the time. Thanos6 16:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Moreover, it doesn't split your soul to kill a horcurx. You have to kill a person, not a part of one 129.170.202.34 19:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
And you have to recite a specific spell to do it. Nightscream 16:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
As Voldemort's killing curse on the baby Harry rebounded onto him, wouldn't that mean one of his horcruxes had to have been destroyed? I mean surely you need to have part of the soul within the body. As I understand a horcrux removes part of your soul from your body to place in another vessel. It doesn't remove the soul entirely from the body. 210.50.216.161 14:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Harry could not have created a horcrux at that moment because he did not make th incantation nor intend to rip his soul apart at the time. No intention, no crime, no horcrux!!!!!!
CC to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Harry Potter
I'm glad that I wasn't the only person to think that the Horcrux is like a lich's phylactery. What do you think about possibly expanding this mention to other articles? I find it interesting that what Voldemort does to himself (and its subsequent results on the soul and the wizard's physical body) seems very similar to what a wizard does to attain lichhood in the D&D universe. -- Death phoenix 15:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
If anyone has read Inuyasha: Volume One - Yura of the Hair sorta uses her comb as a "safegaurd" for her soul. The only difference is that she keeps her ENTIRE soul in her Comb, while her own body is soul-less.
But Voldemort CHOOSES his horcruxes. (Also, Harry does not have a horcrux exactly for this reason, it seems you have to actively decide to have a horcrux). Dumbledore said Voldemort was one short when he went to the Potter's and I don't think Voldemort planned to put part of himself into his nemesis. He would have marked the great killing with something else afterwards.
However, what do people think about accidental horcruxes? It seems a bit farfetched but this seems to be the only way Harry could be a horcrux...unless the "Flesh, blood and bone" ceremony in book four has anything to do with it...
Is there some similarity between the fact that Voldemort has split his soul into seven peices and that there are seven years at Hogwarts? Anonymous
Well, they do mention in the book that Seven is a very magical number.
When Voldemort's speaking to Slughorn about making Horcruxes he said that in magic seven is the most powerful number. There might be seven years at Hogwarts simply because of the number's power.
As you have to perform a spell to produce a horcrux, there are no "accidental horcruxes". That makes it also very unlikely that Harry is one.
But part of Voldemort did transfer into Harry, and some kind of linkage did established between Harry's Soul and voldemort's soul. So we do not know how much of Voldemort's soul is placed in him, and if we do, is that sufficicent to make Harry into an accidental Horcrux.
I agree - I think it is unlikely that Harry is Voldemort's Horcrux. In HBP Dumbledore makes a point of saying that it is impossible for Voldemort to possess Harry because Harry has a pure soul. If Harry was his horcrux this would probably not be the case...
"Accidental" here means that Voldemort meant to create the sixth and final horcrux (an unknown object) with the murder of Harry, but thanks to Lily's protection, he failed to kill him and the soul fragment entered Harry instead, who should have been dead. Hence the "accidental": Voldemort meant for something else, and not Harry, to become a Horcrux. Also, maybe Voldemort's soul had already been divided by the murder of James or Lily, so failing to kill Harry would be irrelevant in that respect. Sinistro 11:10, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Voldemort has seemingly killed so many people - many more than seven - which means that a horcrux is not automatically created after each kill. I still think it would have to be a conscious parting of the soul on Voldemort's behalf meaning that it is unlikely Harry is a horcrux. HOWEVER - the final horcrux mentioned by Dumbledore is supposed to be an important representation of Griffindor or Ravenclaw...what if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor??? This could tie in making him the final horcrux (I hope not!)...HB
My idea of an accidental Horcrux implies that the spell creating the Horcrux has been performed at the same time as the try to murder Harry. (brf)
Flesh, bone, and BLOOD could very well make Harry a horcrux, someone correct me if i'm wrong, just going on memory here. But in the Goblet of Fire, Voldemort needed Harry's blood to be reborn, am i right? Could this mean Harry being a horcrux was used.... i can't really remember.... Or might have something to do with Lily Potter's love she left with Harry as protection and Voldemort having his blood is immune to harry's protection now... someone help me out here please (BLH)
Voldemort wanted to use Harry's blood because of Lily's protection; Voldemort himself said that he could have used any enemy wizard's blood, but wanted Harry's because of the lingering protection. I agree that it doesn't seem likely that Harry is an accidental Horcrux, mostly because it doesn't make sense that a piece of Voldemort's soul would be able to stay, undiscovered, inside of Harry for years, while Voldemort himself can't stand to reside in Harry's body for very long.
After reader reread the book, they will realize that the vanishing cabinet is there by the chapter of Sectumsempra. So perhaps, one of the horcrux is stored in there? Things mentioned in relative detail:
I suspect that the bloodstained axe can be the one that chopped Nearly headless Nick... and if so, by using it as Horcrux, it will be somethign belong to Gryfindor (in a way) The tiara could belong to Ravenclaw.
There are two ways to protect something: one is to protect it in the midst of powerful magic, as in the locket and the ring, the other is to hide it in junks, such as the diary, which can be excellent if one have souls to spare... And as you can see, one do not spend too much time in this version of Room of Requirement, since all they want to focus is their own stuff. Combined with so much junks, the chance of finding it, unless one know that it is indeed in there, would be difficult.
Although it is very likely that the bloodstained axe is the one used to nearly behead Nearly Headless Nick, that does not necessarily make it Gryfindor property. More importantly, to our knowledge there is no connection between Voldermort and Nick, making the axe insignificant to Voldermort and an awful horcrux. -aMeerHuman
this looked like fanciful vanity original research, so i ditched it: Friday 18:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
The etymology of the name "horcrux" was traced by Deco Ribeiro, who carefuly read the very word: horcrux = hor crux = Hor Cross, Horus Cross, The Cross of Horus.
Hor (or Horus, in latin) was the Egyptian Sky God, one of the majors gods in Egypt. His story is told in the “Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever” (sounds like a book Lord Voldemort would love to read) over 3,000 years before the birth of Christ. One of Horus' representations is Harmachis (Heru-Em-Akhet, Harmakis): " Horus in the horizon". It's Horus as a symbol of resurrection, linked with the setting sun. When his father, the god Osiris, was killed and had his soul torn in several pieces, it was Horus and his mother, Isis, who put the parts together so Osiris could ressurect.
The ankh, another major egyptian symbol, was also called the Cross of Horus and Key of Life. It represents eternal life, rebirth, and the life-giving power of the sun. The (now) infamous swastika, used by the Nazis in their flags, is also called Horus Cross. JKR herself compared the Death Eaters to the Nazis in an interview. The swastika, though, was an ancient representation of the sun as well, used in many cultures (from India to Native Americans) as a symbol of good luck. Hitler just stole it - and corrupted its meaning. Swastika is sanscrit for "little thing associated with well-being", corresponding roughly to "lucky charm", and it's believed to have been used originaly as an amulet.
An amulet of eternal life, rebirth, torn souls, ressurection. Maybe an amulet to store part of your soul so you can live forever. Here's JKR's horcrux.
The swastika is a variation of the solar cross, one of the oldest religious symbol in history. It has appeared in various religions including Asian, American, European, and Indian. It's a cross in a circle basically, and it supposed to represent the movements of the sun.
James Joyce said of his book Ulysses that he had put enough puzzles to keep the critics going for decades - which was the only way to keep immortal: perhaps the same could be said of any artwork (including books) that persists.
Perhaps the building itself is a Horcrux: it was the only place that Tom Riddle felt safe/happy/whatever.
Did the Sorting Hat know of the prophecy - which is why it offered Harry Potter the choice of house? (Anyone wish to create a list of objects that are sentient/capable of initiating action in others - the Sorting Hat,
Michael Moorcock's Runestone and Stormbringer, the
Monolith from
2001: A Space Odyssey etc?)
It's been a while since i've read the first book, but if I remember correctly, the sorting hat really didn't give Harry a choice, but rather put him in Gryffindor because Harry specifically asked not to be put in Slytherin. If anything the sorting hat places the student into the house they consciously chose to be in, as Hermione proved when she reveald that she asked the hat to put her in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw. As for the Hat knowing the prophecy, Dumbledore was the only person to know the full contents of the prophecy until he told Harry, because he didn't discuss it with anyone it's doubtful that the Hat overheard anything about the prophecy until book 5.
The article says that one of the horcruxes might not have been created because Voldemort might have wanted to create the final horcrux from his murder of Harry Potter, but that he failed. Dumbledore tells Harry that in failing to kill Harry, the final horcrux could not be created, but that Voldemort did make his final horcrux from the murder of a muggle man, Frank Bryce, mentioned in the first chapter of the fourth book.
yeah, but i think one has to consciously choose to create a horcrux.
I am removing all original research from the article. When describing ideas or facts not specifically stated in the books, it is necessary to cite a source who developed the theory. You can't create it yourself then put it in the article. Superm401 | Talk 02:42, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
Is it possible that the silvery hand that Voldemort made for Peter Pettigrew is the final horcrux? After all, Cedric had just been murdered, albeit, not by Lord Voldemort himself, but by Peter Pettigrew. However, Voldemort's wand was the wand used to kill Cedric, so, with murder fresh on his wand, could he have potientially made his final horcrux Wormtail's hand? I also find it odd that Wormtail's hand (silvery and strong) and Dumbledore's (in the 6th book - black and weak) are opposites.
Perhaps Lord V was setting up the Horcrux creation and Lily's activities "diverted" the deposition into something/somewhere unexpected.
There is a possibility that R.A.B. is dead and/or the object taken has been destroyed - the message could be so interpreted.
How ambiguous is the prophecy - is HP only half alive and will develop should Lord V die?
First of all I try to lay my thoughts down about how a Horcrux is created. This should build up a little theory to find out if Harry himself could be a Horcrux.
It is said that some kind of spell/magic is necessary to create the horcrux "at the moment" the acting person is committing murder. My theory would be:
Just a theory. Now back to Harry and the possibility of him being a Horcrux. Actually nobody knew exactly what happend at Godric's Hollow on October 31st 1981. What was found at the scene of crime, probably was, according to how the story is set up: - a dead James Potter - a dead Lily Potter - a living Harry Potter with a lightning scar - a corpse of Lord Voldemort As there is no witness of the scene except little Harry the story which is around was founded on what was found at the scene of crime.
What follows now is of what is partly revealed in the books containing assumption of the characters there, as well as some of my assumption: Lord Voldemort moved to Godric's Hollow to kill little Harry. James Potter crossed his way so he "Avada Kedavrad" him away. Now LV enters the house. He pushes aways the mother Lily telling her that he only wants to kill little Harry. Now let us assume he wanted to create another Horcrux. Maybe putting a part of his soul into "something" from Gryffindor. As the name Godric's Hollow anounces there is something from Godric (Gryfindor) there. Maybe a cave (hollow), maybe his grave, who knows. As LV did not find something better (or get it, e.g. the sword) he thought of using the "thing" where Godric's Hollow has its name from. Back to action. LV issues the Avada Kedavra to kill Harry. Focuses on the object to apparate his split soul into (the something there). At that moment Lily Potter sacrifices herself by throwing herself into the Avada Kedavra spell. LV is surprised because he cannot understand the motives of that fact (often cited by Dumbledore). This surprise leads to an unconcentrated moment in which LV thinks "I wanted to kill Harry" and at that moment Lily Potter dies. This act then would create the Horcrux Harry Potter because LV lost concentration, which is essential for correct apparition. This Avada Kedavra would create the Lightning scar (I come back to this later) on Harrys forehead. LV now thinks well, let's have another try on Harry. Now he tries to Avada Kedavra Harry. As Harry is actually now a Horcrux (withour LV knowing) this would mean to destroy his own Horcrux and therefore a part of his own soul. So basically it would mean suicide. That is exactly what happened. Instead of Harry, LV's body was stopped to live.
So lets sum it up. Where are the pros and where are the cons of this theory:
Pros:
Cons:
3) However the biggest argument on my side against this theory would be that LV definetely did not want to create a Horcrux in this situation. Why should he? Born in 1926, he finished Hogwarts in 1945. He probably had his first Horcrux at that time already, or at least 4 of them shortly after (diary, ring, cup, locket). He wanted to have seven. He rose to the Evil Dark Lord at around 1970. If he thought that seven is the perfect number it would be unwise of having the seven part of the souls (six Horcruxes) not ready at that time and putting himself in the position of being the most wanted. Remember that the prophecy was done in 1980, ten years after his "outing"!
Revival from a Horcrux'
I am also not sure if a Horcrux has to be destroyed, meaning the part of the soul has to be used which is in a certain Horcrux, in order to revive (Horcrux-store-model). If yes, this would reduce the amount of existing Horcruxes everytime the being is ressurecting. So they would be used up. Of course there could be created new ones afterwards. Actually I like this way of reviving much more then the idea that just the soul is somehow copied from a Horcrux to a new "body carrier" (Horcrux-anchor-model). However that would mean that Peter Pettigrew had to find and use a Horcrux in Albania to move it into that ugly baby. By using Harrys blood LV could have used a second one to join the first one in the baby either without knowing it, or by intention (to make Harry killable by him). According to the Horcrux-store-model-theory the following Horcruxes are used up:
Horcrux-1 (unknown item) ==> used up through weak and greedy Quirrel
Horcrux-2 (diary) ==> destroyed
Horcrux-3 (unknown item) Albania, used to revive through the baby ==> used up
Horcrux-4 (Harry, if it is, accidental horcrux) ==> ?used up by LV through blood infusion
Horcrux-5 (Ring) => destroyed by dumbledore
Horcrux-6 (locket) => fate unknown
The biggest problem with the Horcruxes seems to be that no one (except) the Dark Lord knows for sure how many are supposed to be around. I would guess that the Dark Lord would try to recreate used up Horcruxes ASAP in order to reach the magic number again. So there would still be the task of destroying six of his Horcruxes without letting him know. However if it is like this, the diary does not count.
One last thing, which makes me worry. The message with the false locket says: "I stole the real Horcrux". Why the name "real"? Does R.A.B. indicate that this Horcrux has a special meaning above all other Horcruxes? Or does he mean with "real" only the one he took. Maybe R.A.B. was a witness of a murder Voldemort commited having the lock with him. He might have just wondered why Voldemort carries the Lock with him. -- 84.57.12.124 19:50, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
When Dumbledore died, a portrait of him was created in his office. Does this mean that if Harry needed to consult Dumbledore, he could just talk to the portrait?
the horcrux magical item seems to me to be very similar to a trick used by Neil Gaiman in his book Neverwhere where the one of the main characters(The Marquis de Carabas)alows himself to be killed only because he knows that his soul is locked in an egg, he is later revived with this egg by a friend(Old Bailey).
-This is an interesting speculation. It would not be the first time JKR is suspected of being "inspired" by Neil Gaiman ;)
But then you might as well say Gaiman ripped off X-men, as Jean Grey was stored in an egg-sort-of thing underwater when she died as the Phoenix. Yeah, Jean Grey herself. Not a piece of her soul.
Much like the Dante's inferno refrences in the first Harry Potter book. Just out of curiosity, what references were these? Nightscream 16:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know how much relevance this has, but think about this: Each time he makes a horcrux, Voldemort's soul is divided in half. That would mean the horcrux gets half and he keeps the other half. The second horcrux would get half of the half that remained within him, thus making two 1/4 portions of his soul. If he made 6 horcruxes (the final and 7th portion remaining in his body) the final one would contain 1/64 of his soul and the peice that was left within him would be the same. This means that both Voldemort himself (at least before his body was destroyed due to his botched killing curse) and the final horcrux contain a pretty small fraction of his soul. Being that it is such a tiny portion, is it unreasonable to think that it somehow became a part of Harry? Harry could be the final horcrux, but also he could have somehow absorbed the small part of the soul that would have come from Voldemort's body upon his destruction, meaning that the now resurrected Voldemort would have no part of his own soul within him.
Here's a formula you can use regarding horcruxes: S = 1 /(2^(D-1)) when D>=2. D = the desired number of soul peices. S = the portion of the soul that is left within the body and subsequently the portion that is held within the final horcrux.
I see I'm not the only one who noticed that Dumbledore "forgot" about the sorting hat as one of Godric's relics, though, knowing JKR it could be on purpose
Even with the citation to the text, I find this part of the article very weak. The fact that Gryphindor at one time wore the hat does not constitute ownership, being as tons of other people have at one time worn the hat (e.g. every student who enters Hogwarts). Additionally, the sorting hat was in Dumbledore's office and he seems to know a lot about it. I find it improbable that the hat would let something slip in one of its songs which indicates that it belonged to Godric but that Dumbledore would have no idea about this. I think we should decide what constitutes original reserach for this article: i.e. whether we will only include things which the text directly applies to the subject of Horcruxes or if ideas which have been floating around fansites and forums should be included (IDK if we should do this, but if we do, such speculation should be earmarked) 129.170.202.34 19:36, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Seems to me it would fit better there, if it should be anywhere, though it probably is worth mentioning since it's such a prevalent fan theory. Seems rather superfluous here when there's a separate R.A.B. article, and in any case the huge paragraph on the locket is unwieldy and spoils the flow of the article. Thoughts? -- Guybrush 17:16, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the Lord of the Rings text from "Horcrux precedents" here. The previous two are very similar to what a horcrux does, but this one is admittedly very different:
Since it's so different, I don't think it belongs in this section. -- Death phoenix 15:36, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I re-added the One Ring, and only saw this Talk section afterwards. I really think it belongs here, since the similarities are far greater than the (nuance) difference (soul put into an object); but I am going to re-add the difference paragraph.
I added mention of James Frazer's 1890 book The Golden Bough which contains a chapter on myths involving someone surviving death by removing their soul or part of it from their body. I think the section on "Horcrux precedents" could do with a edit away form a bullet list and towards a paragraph approach. Since the book in question is in the public domain (and available on wikibooks) we might do well to incorporate some of the information there. I would do it myself but I am not especially good at such things. Dalf | Talk 00:58, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I ask this because there seems to be a double standard- the theory that Harry is a Horcrux is usually deleted from the article, while the theory that R.A.B. is Regulus Black has been there for a long time and is apparently allowed. Each is speculation, however. I sense that people's own personal prejudices are getting in the way- the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory is perhaps the most prevalent on the internet, and there should probably be a reference to it, at least as an idea that has gathered popular support.
I have a couple of quibbles over the Tolkien stuff in this article. I'm unsure of my ideas for changes, so I thought I'd talk now and edit in a few days.
First, "The Ring could only be destroyed by throwing it into the pit of the volcanic Mount Doom in which it had originally been forged." is quite misleading. This was the only option open to Elrond and company, but the statement implies that the fires of Mount Doom were the only force that could destroy the ring (which is demonstrably false). Given the tangential nature of Sauron's ring to this article I suggest simply removing the details of the means of its destruction. (The One Ring article shares this flaw, but that's a different kettle of fish.)
Second, the explanation that Sauron forged the ring "to magnify his own power" is correct only in the most abstract and vague sense. It would take little more space and be infinitely more accurate to say "to dominate the wearers of the other rings of power".
I am dubious of some of the other information in the section (e.g. the cutting of the hand), but I'm not enough of a Tolken scholar to question it outright. Peterhutnick 13:37, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
I've removed some speculation and what I see as original research from the Possible Horcruxes section. I cut out a sentence stating that Marvolo Gaunt's ring was made into a horcrux with the murder of Voldemort's father and grandparents. This can't be true because Tom was wearing the ring before he even asked Slughorn about the horcruxes. He killed them before he even knew how to make a horcrux. I've also removed a sentence stating that Riddle's diary was made into a horcrux with Moaning Myrtle's death. This is just an assumption; there is no canon proof. Also, Tom didn't kill her, the basilisk did. I removed speculation that Tom made his Hogwarts Award for Special Services to the school into a horcrux, and that he used the murder of Bertha Jorkins to make Nagini a horcrux. The Award horcrux idea seems like original research, and Dumbledore said that the murder of Frank Bryce was probably used to make Nagini a horcrux. -- WhyBeNormal 03:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
I'm adding back my entry about Riddle's Award in the Trophy Room with references; when I initially put it in it technically was original spec. but I just *knew* it's it. Now, I've got a chapter to back me up, so back my entry's going. ~BrennaCeDria
I just removed a large section of OR called "Tracking Horcruxes". Friday (talk) 17:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why we want the "Horcrux precedents" section, which was just put back in Friday (talk) 13:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
I disagree that this article is about any and every item which holds the soul. The title is "Horcrux", to me this makes the topic pretty clear. If someone wanted to write an article on soul-holding items in general, they could certainly try to do so, altho it could easily become just another "List of something" article, which IMO aren't very encyclopedic. To try to say that this isn't a Harry Potter article is fairly ridiculous, IMO. Friday (talk) 21:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I find it disturbing that people would intentionally remove pertinent information from articles. The point of mentioning precedents is to provide context for JKR's universe, showing how it fits into the larger realm of history, mythology, and fantasy. Like all modern creators, JKR stands on the shoulders of giants. Those who willfully conceal such clear points of reference are doing her (and the public at large) a great disservice. Frankie 15:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I like the newly added bit to the intro text much better than the old "precedents" section. It fits into the article better this way, and doesn't seem strangely irrelevant anymore. Friday (talk) 18:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I just removed this section again, for the same reasons given above, plus the fact that Frankie already worked this idea into the article in a much better way than having a whole section devoted to it. If any feels the long section belongs back in there, I'd appreciate some discussion here about why. Friday (talk) 14:18, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have added an "Other theories include:" to the List of possible Horcruxes for those with there own theories (I did this at school, hence the different IP). Obviously, stick to the personal opinion rule when you add to it, it's there to mention that other people have those opinions, not saying that the opinions are correct.
Nagini's status as a Horcrux is uncertain. Dumbledore suggests the snake as a possibility based on the assumption that Voldemort had not found two other horcruxes at the time. If, for example, Harry were to be a horcrux, it is possible that nagini is not 129.170.202.34 08:39, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I removed a new theory I've never seen before (along with the old Harry is a horcrux theory): Peter Pettigrew's hand. Unless I haven't been paying attention, this is never mentioned in the book, therefore, it doesn't belong here. -- D e ath phoenix 16:32, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be horcruces? 70.26.109.236 01:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
I've deleted speculations in the "Voldemort and Harry Potter" Section because the do not belong there. There is already a section called "Possible Horcruces". Please, people, stop putting in speculation that has no literary evidence in the books. If you have a theory, at least back it up with excerpts from the text. I personally think that the last section of this article is unnecessary as it only re-states what is already said. I did not want to delete it without some sort of consensus though, so I ask, Yay or Nay? Vanessa kelly 23:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
This page has become completely about the specific Horcruxes that Lord Voldemort has created. I think it should be split into two. This page should just talk about what a Horcrux is and a new page should be created for Lord Voldemort's Horcruxes. Long term this makes a lot more sense, especially because once the final book comes out, pretty much all the speculation will disappear. VanJoe 17:33, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
Persuant to comments in the above section, I removed the Harry's scar as a Horcrux theory. I let it stand because I wasn't sure if it was mentioned in any official channels. However, I haven't seen any proper citation for this theory, either in the books, or through official channels, and therefore I have removed this as uncited fan speculation. -- D e ath phoenix 19:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to handle some of the points in this section. 12 Grimmauld Place & Godric's Hollow are fine there, and "Death Eaters" might be acceptable. I'm not sure about the other points because they don't really rely on possible items that are mentioned in the books and aren't put forward by anyone in the books. Therefore, these rely on analysis and/or some speculation. OTOH, these other points are fairly well written, don't really detract from the quality of this article, and aren't as wildly speculative as other locations. Thoughts? -- D e ath phoenix 18:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I've accomplished in seven edits what I probably should have done in two, thus artificially inflating my edit count by five. Since I unilaterally removed a few items that might be disputed, I thought I should mention them here. As mentioned in the above section, I removed stuff that's pure speculation and unsupported by anything in the books:
This edit was an attempt to fix part of my major edit, however, this actually re-introduces the passive voice that I've been trying to remove somewhat from the article. Since I can fix this passive voice and still retain all the information in a meaningful way, I have decided to restore the active voice. -- D e ath phoenix 13:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
You can get the word "horcrux" by taking 3 letters of each word from "crumple horned snorcacks".
crumple horned snorcacks -> cru, hor, cks -> horcrucks -> horcrux
-- Muhaha 19:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
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Archive 1 Archive 2 Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5 |
Alwasys wearing black, his cape is a horcrux or he himself is a horcrux? He can kill himself and ensure that Voldemort does not rise.
A possible horcrus is Harry's Advance Potions Book which he origionally borrowed from Professor Slughorn. It is said to be the property of the Half-Blood Prince, and the most likely wizard to refer to himself as a prince is Voldemort, and he himself is half-blood.
I just edited the Harry and Voldemort section because someone had put in their own editorial opinion regarding the idea of Harry being a horcrux. Although I think I agree with what they said, this is not the place to say it. I don't actually know how to say what I edited on the history page, so I am saying it here. Also, can someone kindly contact 68.230.107.245 and tell them this, they may be new to wiki (so am I, hence my lack of knowledge on technical workings of pages)
This is "68.230.107.245" here, "BrennaCeDria" (finally remembered to log myself in), the one adding the "Riddle's Award is the horcrux" items a few weeks ago. I've got some text from chapter 13 to follow it up with--about as vague and hidden as the locket was the first time we all read book 5--and I was wondering if my entry can be left more or less intact now that I've got a source? I'll put it up and see what you guys think. *thanks*
Could someone please research on where Rowling might have gotten this term?
I agree on the 'hor' as in horror part but couln't 'crux' just mean what it says in the dictionary: "an essential, basic, crucial, or pivotal point." (wordsmyth)? 'Seems to me this Horcrux idea is pretty mutch the essence of the whole Harry Potter series.
What if crux had the most simple of its latin translations and it just meant cross. As the cross is a siginicant symbol today people put great value in. Like an an icon.
Is a Horcrux a total invention of JKR or is there some mythological basis?
How's this: The fake locket is the real horcrux and Voldemort concieved the "decoy" and note as a final protection to the horcrux. Why? R.A.B was alone when he wrote the note, he knew about Voldemort, he somehow got around the potion, he detected the trace of Tom Riddle's magic, yet he was in Riddle's and Dumbledore's time. Would not the wizarding world have heard of this man who was more powerful than Dumbledore? JKR said there won't be any new major characters in HP7, so R.A.B has few potential matches. Those who do match the name are certainly inferior to Dumbledore in power, yet whoever R.A.B was, he was composed enough to write a note after taking the potion (or used stronger spells than Dumbledore had to banish it). These seem implausible. More likely is that Voldemort kept the real Locket for himself and tricked Harry into thinking that the real one had already been destroyed (so said the note); thus, if and when Harry destroys the rest, he has one left in his possession.
Is Sirius' brother R.A.B?
Besides Regulus Black (middle name unknown), no one else has been mentioned in the books with the initials R.B. It is entirely possible that J.K.R. is introducing another character, but I feel this is unlikely at this late time in the series. -StaceyV2220
Definition of Crux - The basic, central, or critical point or feature: the crux of the matter; the crux of an argument.
Sounds like a soul to me.
- Zinnober
Somehow the last paragraph or two feel like speculation. Any agreement? SujinYH 21:11, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
How about this for speculation. Is it at all conceivable that Harry Potter will destroy Voldemort and become a Dark Lord himself. He is interested in the Dark Arts and wants to become an Auror. Potentially gamekeeper turned poacher!!! Love does not conquer all. And R.A.B. has to be Regulus.
As further speculation with Regulus, remember that his brother and friends all became Animagi, so the theory would be known to him. And Peter Pettigrew successfully hid-out as Scabbers for years, and Rita Skeeter likewise has hidden her Animagus status. Plus, with judicious use of the Polyjuice Potion, a wizard on the run could hide out for years as something other than just a kid's familiar.
Regulus's reappearance would also solve the problem of the Black family inheritance.
With the false horcrux, while Tom Riddle got Slytherin's locket early-on in his reign of terror, he hadn't as yet racked up a body count large enough to fill a lake of Inferi. One would also assume he didn't sully his wand doing it all himself, but might have taken some of his Death Eaters along with him, if just to cart the bodies of the murdered Muggles. What better way for Regulus to get around the green potion than to swap out the locket beforehand?
I believe that we have seen all the horcruxes so far. i don't see J.K adding a new one in during the last book since Harry will be so busy looking for and destroying them all... Book 1- vold book 2- the diary book 3- ? book 4- nagini book 5- the locket book 6- the ring, the hufflepuff cup...so as you can see i have "found" one to two in each book but book 3 so i think there could be some merrit in this theory. I am new here so I am not sure about posting this but after reading some other posts i saw alot of them are theories to so I hope this is o.k. If it is and anyone can think of one from book 3, please put it down. 69.40.22.45 03:00, 3 October 2005 (UTC) merrick21
Regulus Black could have the middle name "Alphard". This "Alphard" being the late uncle struck from the family tree for bequeathing his entire fortune to Sirius, allowing him to live with James Potter's parents. This was explained in Grimmauld Place in The Order of the Phoenix. - Kyus.
Also explained, during the Grimmauld Place cleanup operation, is a locket that no-one could open. This could be completely unrelated, but I highly doubt this.
1. It was found in the Black Family home. 2. The whole Mundungus-stealing-from-the-Black-household idea seemed too random, and we all know JK Rowling likes to introduce seemingly uninteresting things that are opened up further in later books. I believe he stole this locket and therefore knows the whereabouts of the Horcrux.
-Kyus.
I deleted this final paragraph
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS PURLY FICTION. IT IS ON NO ACCOUNT REAL...
But wait just one second. If a horcrux is a soul, It's living. If it's living, by destroying it you kill a part of Voldemort, which would make YOU a murderer. So Harry Potter has a horcrux from killing Tom Riddle's Diary, and Dumbledore killed on too. Would that mean that, for instance, TOM RIDDLE'S DIARY IS HARRY'S HORCRUX?????
As it is unencylclopaedic and makes little sense. Any objections? -- Cruci 13:22, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, because you have to specifically want to make one at the time. Thanos6 16:21, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Moreover, it doesn't split your soul to kill a horcurx. You have to kill a person, not a part of one 129.170.202.34 19:28, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
And you have to recite a specific spell to do it. Nightscream 16:48, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
As Voldemort's killing curse on the baby Harry rebounded onto him, wouldn't that mean one of his horcruxes had to have been destroyed? I mean surely you need to have part of the soul within the body. As I understand a horcrux removes part of your soul from your body to place in another vessel. It doesn't remove the soul entirely from the body. 210.50.216.161 14:39, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Harry could not have created a horcrux at that moment because he did not make th incantation nor intend to rip his soul apart at the time. No intention, no crime, no horcrux!!!!!!
CC to Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Harry Potter
I'm glad that I wasn't the only person to think that the Horcrux is like a lich's phylactery. What do you think about possibly expanding this mention to other articles? I find it interesting that what Voldemort does to himself (and its subsequent results on the soul and the wizard's physical body) seems very similar to what a wizard does to attain lichhood in the D&D universe. -- Death phoenix 15:36, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
If anyone has read Inuyasha: Volume One - Yura of the Hair sorta uses her comb as a "safegaurd" for her soul. The only difference is that she keeps her ENTIRE soul in her Comb, while her own body is soul-less.
But Voldemort CHOOSES his horcruxes. (Also, Harry does not have a horcrux exactly for this reason, it seems you have to actively decide to have a horcrux). Dumbledore said Voldemort was one short when he went to the Potter's and I don't think Voldemort planned to put part of himself into his nemesis. He would have marked the great killing with something else afterwards.
However, what do people think about accidental horcruxes? It seems a bit farfetched but this seems to be the only way Harry could be a horcrux...unless the "Flesh, blood and bone" ceremony in book four has anything to do with it...
Is there some similarity between the fact that Voldemort has split his soul into seven peices and that there are seven years at Hogwarts? Anonymous
Well, they do mention in the book that Seven is a very magical number.
When Voldemort's speaking to Slughorn about making Horcruxes he said that in magic seven is the most powerful number. There might be seven years at Hogwarts simply because of the number's power.
As you have to perform a spell to produce a horcrux, there are no "accidental horcruxes". That makes it also very unlikely that Harry is one.
But part of Voldemort did transfer into Harry, and some kind of linkage did established between Harry's Soul and voldemort's soul. So we do not know how much of Voldemort's soul is placed in him, and if we do, is that sufficicent to make Harry into an accidental Horcrux.
I agree - I think it is unlikely that Harry is Voldemort's Horcrux. In HBP Dumbledore makes a point of saying that it is impossible for Voldemort to possess Harry because Harry has a pure soul. If Harry was his horcrux this would probably not be the case...
"Accidental" here means that Voldemort meant to create the sixth and final horcrux (an unknown object) with the murder of Harry, but thanks to Lily's protection, he failed to kill him and the soul fragment entered Harry instead, who should have been dead. Hence the "accidental": Voldemort meant for something else, and not Harry, to become a Horcrux. Also, maybe Voldemort's soul had already been divided by the murder of James or Lily, so failing to kill Harry would be irrelevant in that respect. Sinistro 11:10, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
Voldemort has seemingly killed so many people - many more than seven - which means that a horcrux is not automatically created after each kill. I still think it would have to be a conscious parting of the soul on Voldemort's behalf meaning that it is unlikely Harry is a horcrux. HOWEVER - the final horcrux mentioned by Dumbledore is supposed to be an important representation of Griffindor or Ravenclaw...what if Harry is the heir of Gryffindor??? This could tie in making him the final horcrux (I hope not!)...HB
My idea of an accidental Horcrux implies that the spell creating the Horcrux has been performed at the same time as the try to murder Harry. (brf)
Flesh, bone, and BLOOD could very well make Harry a horcrux, someone correct me if i'm wrong, just going on memory here. But in the Goblet of Fire, Voldemort needed Harry's blood to be reborn, am i right? Could this mean Harry being a horcrux was used.... i can't really remember.... Or might have something to do with Lily Potter's love she left with Harry as protection and Voldemort having his blood is immune to harry's protection now... someone help me out here please (BLH)
Voldemort wanted to use Harry's blood because of Lily's protection; Voldemort himself said that he could have used any enemy wizard's blood, but wanted Harry's because of the lingering protection. I agree that it doesn't seem likely that Harry is an accidental Horcrux, mostly because it doesn't make sense that a piece of Voldemort's soul would be able to stay, undiscovered, inside of Harry for years, while Voldemort himself can't stand to reside in Harry's body for very long.
After reader reread the book, they will realize that the vanishing cabinet is there by the chapter of Sectumsempra. So perhaps, one of the horcrux is stored in there? Things mentioned in relative detail:
I suspect that the bloodstained axe can be the one that chopped Nearly headless Nick... and if so, by using it as Horcrux, it will be somethign belong to Gryfindor (in a way) The tiara could belong to Ravenclaw.
There are two ways to protect something: one is to protect it in the midst of powerful magic, as in the locket and the ring, the other is to hide it in junks, such as the diary, which can be excellent if one have souls to spare... And as you can see, one do not spend too much time in this version of Room of Requirement, since all they want to focus is their own stuff. Combined with so much junks, the chance of finding it, unless one know that it is indeed in there, would be difficult.
Although it is very likely that the bloodstained axe is the one used to nearly behead Nearly Headless Nick, that does not necessarily make it Gryfindor property. More importantly, to our knowledge there is no connection between Voldermort and Nick, making the axe insignificant to Voldermort and an awful horcrux. -aMeerHuman
this looked like fanciful vanity original research, so i ditched it: Friday 18:41, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
The etymology of the name "horcrux" was traced by Deco Ribeiro, who carefuly read the very word: horcrux = hor crux = Hor Cross, Horus Cross, The Cross of Horus.
Hor (or Horus, in latin) was the Egyptian Sky God, one of the majors gods in Egypt. His story is told in the “Book of Vivifying the Soul Forever” (sounds like a book Lord Voldemort would love to read) over 3,000 years before the birth of Christ. One of Horus' representations is Harmachis (Heru-Em-Akhet, Harmakis): " Horus in the horizon". It's Horus as a symbol of resurrection, linked with the setting sun. When his father, the god Osiris, was killed and had his soul torn in several pieces, it was Horus and his mother, Isis, who put the parts together so Osiris could ressurect.
The ankh, another major egyptian symbol, was also called the Cross of Horus and Key of Life. It represents eternal life, rebirth, and the life-giving power of the sun. The (now) infamous swastika, used by the Nazis in their flags, is also called Horus Cross. JKR herself compared the Death Eaters to the Nazis in an interview. The swastika, though, was an ancient representation of the sun as well, used in many cultures (from India to Native Americans) as a symbol of good luck. Hitler just stole it - and corrupted its meaning. Swastika is sanscrit for "little thing associated with well-being", corresponding roughly to "lucky charm", and it's believed to have been used originaly as an amulet.
An amulet of eternal life, rebirth, torn souls, ressurection. Maybe an amulet to store part of your soul so you can live forever. Here's JKR's horcrux.
The swastika is a variation of the solar cross, one of the oldest religious symbol in history. It has appeared in various religions including Asian, American, European, and Indian. It's a cross in a circle basically, and it supposed to represent the movements of the sun.
James Joyce said of his book Ulysses that he had put enough puzzles to keep the critics going for decades - which was the only way to keep immortal: perhaps the same could be said of any artwork (including books) that persists.
Perhaps the building itself is a Horcrux: it was the only place that Tom Riddle felt safe/happy/whatever.
Did the Sorting Hat know of the prophecy - which is why it offered Harry Potter the choice of house? (Anyone wish to create a list of objects that are sentient/capable of initiating action in others - the Sorting Hat,
Michael Moorcock's Runestone and Stormbringer, the
Monolith from
2001: A Space Odyssey etc?)
It's been a while since i've read the first book, but if I remember correctly, the sorting hat really didn't give Harry a choice, but rather put him in Gryffindor because Harry specifically asked not to be put in Slytherin. If anything the sorting hat places the student into the house they consciously chose to be in, as Hermione proved when she reveald that she asked the hat to put her in Gryffindor rather than Ravenclaw. As for the Hat knowing the prophecy, Dumbledore was the only person to know the full contents of the prophecy until he told Harry, because he didn't discuss it with anyone it's doubtful that the Hat overheard anything about the prophecy until book 5.
The article says that one of the horcruxes might not have been created because Voldemort might have wanted to create the final horcrux from his murder of Harry Potter, but that he failed. Dumbledore tells Harry that in failing to kill Harry, the final horcrux could not be created, but that Voldemort did make his final horcrux from the murder of a muggle man, Frank Bryce, mentioned in the first chapter of the fourth book.
yeah, but i think one has to consciously choose to create a horcrux.
I am removing all original research from the article. When describing ideas or facts not specifically stated in the books, it is necessary to cite a source who developed the theory. You can't create it yourself then put it in the article. Superm401 | Talk 02:42, July 21, 2005 (UTC)
Is it possible that the silvery hand that Voldemort made for Peter Pettigrew is the final horcrux? After all, Cedric had just been murdered, albeit, not by Lord Voldemort himself, but by Peter Pettigrew. However, Voldemort's wand was the wand used to kill Cedric, so, with murder fresh on his wand, could he have potientially made his final horcrux Wormtail's hand? I also find it odd that Wormtail's hand (silvery and strong) and Dumbledore's (in the 6th book - black and weak) are opposites.
Perhaps Lord V was setting up the Horcrux creation and Lily's activities "diverted" the deposition into something/somewhere unexpected.
There is a possibility that R.A.B. is dead and/or the object taken has been destroyed - the message could be so interpreted.
How ambiguous is the prophecy - is HP only half alive and will develop should Lord V die?
First of all I try to lay my thoughts down about how a Horcrux is created. This should build up a little theory to find out if Harry himself could be a Horcrux.
It is said that some kind of spell/magic is necessary to create the horcrux "at the moment" the acting person is committing murder. My theory would be:
Just a theory. Now back to Harry and the possibility of him being a Horcrux. Actually nobody knew exactly what happend at Godric's Hollow on October 31st 1981. What was found at the scene of crime, probably was, according to how the story is set up: - a dead James Potter - a dead Lily Potter - a living Harry Potter with a lightning scar - a corpse of Lord Voldemort As there is no witness of the scene except little Harry the story which is around was founded on what was found at the scene of crime.
What follows now is of what is partly revealed in the books containing assumption of the characters there, as well as some of my assumption: Lord Voldemort moved to Godric's Hollow to kill little Harry. James Potter crossed his way so he "Avada Kedavrad" him away. Now LV enters the house. He pushes aways the mother Lily telling her that he only wants to kill little Harry. Now let us assume he wanted to create another Horcrux. Maybe putting a part of his soul into "something" from Gryffindor. As the name Godric's Hollow anounces there is something from Godric (Gryfindor) there. Maybe a cave (hollow), maybe his grave, who knows. As LV did not find something better (or get it, e.g. the sword) he thought of using the "thing" where Godric's Hollow has its name from. Back to action. LV issues the Avada Kedavra to kill Harry. Focuses on the object to apparate his split soul into (the something there). At that moment Lily Potter sacrifices herself by throwing herself into the Avada Kedavra spell. LV is surprised because he cannot understand the motives of that fact (often cited by Dumbledore). This surprise leads to an unconcentrated moment in which LV thinks "I wanted to kill Harry" and at that moment Lily Potter dies. This act then would create the Horcrux Harry Potter because LV lost concentration, which is essential for correct apparition. This Avada Kedavra would create the Lightning scar (I come back to this later) on Harrys forehead. LV now thinks well, let's have another try on Harry. Now he tries to Avada Kedavra Harry. As Harry is actually now a Horcrux (withour LV knowing) this would mean to destroy his own Horcrux and therefore a part of his own soul. So basically it would mean suicide. That is exactly what happened. Instead of Harry, LV's body was stopped to live.
So lets sum it up. Where are the pros and where are the cons of this theory:
Pros:
Cons:
3) However the biggest argument on my side against this theory would be that LV definetely did not want to create a Horcrux in this situation. Why should he? Born in 1926, he finished Hogwarts in 1945. He probably had his first Horcrux at that time already, or at least 4 of them shortly after (diary, ring, cup, locket). He wanted to have seven. He rose to the Evil Dark Lord at around 1970. If he thought that seven is the perfect number it would be unwise of having the seven part of the souls (six Horcruxes) not ready at that time and putting himself in the position of being the most wanted. Remember that the prophecy was done in 1980, ten years after his "outing"!
Revival from a Horcrux'
I am also not sure if a Horcrux has to be destroyed, meaning the part of the soul has to be used which is in a certain Horcrux, in order to revive (Horcrux-store-model). If yes, this would reduce the amount of existing Horcruxes everytime the being is ressurecting. So they would be used up. Of course there could be created new ones afterwards. Actually I like this way of reviving much more then the idea that just the soul is somehow copied from a Horcrux to a new "body carrier" (Horcrux-anchor-model). However that would mean that Peter Pettigrew had to find and use a Horcrux in Albania to move it into that ugly baby. By using Harrys blood LV could have used a second one to join the first one in the baby either without knowing it, or by intention (to make Harry killable by him). According to the Horcrux-store-model-theory the following Horcruxes are used up:
Horcrux-1 (unknown item) ==> used up through weak and greedy Quirrel
Horcrux-2 (diary) ==> destroyed
Horcrux-3 (unknown item) Albania, used to revive through the baby ==> used up
Horcrux-4 (Harry, if it is, accidental horcrux) ==> ?used up by LV through blood infusion
Horcrux-5 (Ring) => destroyed by dumbledore
Horcrux-6 (locket) => fate unknown
The biggest problem with the Horcruxes seems to be that no one (except) the Dark Lord knows for sure how many are supposed to be around. I would guess that the Dark Lord would try to recreate used up Horcruxes ASAP in order to reach the magic number again. So there would still be the task of destroying six of his Horcruxes without letting him know. However if it is like this, the diary does not count.
One last thing, which makes me worry. The message with the false locket says: "I stole the real Horcrux". Why the name "real"? Does R.A.B. indicate that this Horcrux has a special meaning above all other Horcruxes? Or does he mean with "real" only the one he took. Maybe R.A.B. was a witness of a murder Voldemort commited having the lock with him. He might have just wondered why Voldemort carries the Lock with him. -- 84.57.12.124 19:50, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
When Dumbledore died, a portrait of him was created in his office. Does this mean that if Harry needed to consult Dumbledore, he could just talk to the portrait?
the horcrux magical item seems to me to be very similar to a trick used by Neil Gaiman in his book Neverwhere where the one of the main characters(The Marquis de Carabas)alows himself to be killed only because he knows that his soul is locked in an egg, he is later revived with this egg by a friend(Old Bailey).
-This is an interesting speculation. It would not be the first time JKR is suspected of being "inspired" by Neil Gaiman ;)
But then you might as well say Gaiman ripped off X-men, as Jean Grey was stored in an egg-sort-of thing underwater when she died as the Phoenix. Yeah, Jean Grey herself. Not a piece of her soul.
Much like the Dante's inferno refrences in the first Harry Potter book. Just out of curiosity, what references were these? Nightscream 16:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't know how much relevance this has, but think about this: Each time he makes a horcrux, Voldemort's soul is divided in half. That would mean the horcrux gets half and he keeps the other half. The second horcrux would get half of the half that remained within him, thus making two 1/4 portions of his soul. If he made 6 horcruxes (the final and 7th portion remaining in his body) the final one would contain 1/64 of his soul and the peice that was left within him would be the same. This means that both Voldemort himself (at least before his body was destroyed due to his botched killing curse) and the final horcrux contain a pretty small fraction of his soul. Being that it is such a tiny portion, is it unreasonable to think that it somehow became a part of Harry? Harry could be the final horcrux, but also he could have somehow absorbed the small part of the soul that would have come from Voldemort's body upon his destruction, meaning that the now resurrected Voldemort would have no part of his own soul within him.
Here's a formula you can use regarding horcruxes: S = 1 /(2^(D-1)) when D>=2. D = the desired number of soul peices. S = the portion of the soul that is left within the body and subsequently the portion that is held within the final horcrux.
I see I'm not the only one who noticed that Dumbledore "forgot" about the sorting hat as one of Godric's relics, though, knowing JKR it could be on purpose
Even with the citation to the text, I find this part of the article very weak. The fact that Gryphindor at one time wore the hat does not constitute ownership, being as tons of other people have at one time worn the hat (e.g. every student who enters Hogwarts). Additionally, the sorting hat was in Dumbledore's office and he seems to know a lot about it. I find it improbable that the hat would let something slip in one of its songs which indicates that it belonged to Godric but that Dumbledore would have no idea about this. I think we should decide what constitutes original reserach for this article: i.e. whether we will only include things which the text directly applies to the subject of Horcruxes or if ideas which have been floating around fansites and forums should be included (IDK if we should do this, but if we do, such speculation should be earmarked) 129.170.202.34 19:36, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
Seems to me it would fit better there, if it should be anywhere, though it probably is worth mentioning since it's such a prevalent fan theory. Seems rather superfluous here when there's a separate R.A.B. article, and in any case the huge paragraph on the locket is unwieldy and spoils the flow of the article. Thoughts? -- Guybrush 17:16, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
I've removed the Lord of the Rings text from "Horcrux precedents" here. The previous two are very similar to what a horcrux does, but this one is admittedly very different:
Since it's so different, I don't think it belongs in this section. -- Death phoenix 15:36, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
I re-added the One Ring, and only saw this Talk section afterwards. I really think it belongs here, since the similarities are far greater than the (nuance) difference (soul put into an object); but I am going to re-add the difference paragraph.
I added mention of James Frazer's 1890 book The Golden Bough which contains a chapter on myths involving someone surviving death by removing their soul or part of it from their body. I think the section on "Horcrux precedents" could do with a edit away form a bullet list and towards a paragraph approach. Since the book in question is in the public domain (and available on wikibooks) we might do well to incorporate some of the information there. I would do it myself but I am not especially good at such things. Dalf | Talk 00:58, 5 August 2005 (UTC)
I ask this because there seems to be a double standard- the theory that Harry is a Horcrux is usually deleted from the article, while the theory that R.A.B. is Regulus Black has been there for a long time and is apparently allowed. Each is speculation, however. I sense that people's own personal prejudices are getting in the way- the "Harry is a Horcrux" theory is perhaps the most prevalent on the internet, and there should probably be a reference to it, at least as an idea that has gathered popular support.
I have a couple of quibbles over the Tolkien stuff in this article. I'm unsure of my ideas for changes, so I thought I'd talk now and edit in a few days.
First, "The Ring could only be destroyed by throwing it into the pit of the volcanic Mount Doom in which it had originally been forged." is quite misleading. This was the only option open to Elrond and company, but the statement implies that the fires of Mount Doom were the only force that could destroy the ring (which is demonstrably false). Given the tangential nature of Sauron's ring to this article I suggest simply removing the details of the means of its destruction. (The One Ring article shares this flaw, but that's a different kettle of fish.)
Second, the explanation that Sauron forged the ring "to magnify his own power" is correct only in the most abstract and vague sense. It would take little more space and be infinitely more accurate to say "to dominate the wearers of the other rings of power".
I am dubious of some of the other information in the section (e.g. the cutting of the hand), but I'm not enough of a Tolken scholar to question it outright. Peterhutnick 13:37, 12 August 2005 (UTC)
I've removed some speculation and what I see as original research from the Possible Horcruxes section. I cut out a sentence stating that Marvolo Gaunt's ring was made into a horcrux with the murder of Voldemort's father and grandparents. This can't be true because Tom was wearing the ring before he even asked Slughorn about the horcruxes. He killed them before he even knew how to make a horcrux. I've also removed a sentence stating that Riddle's diary was made into a horcrux with Moaning Myrtle's death. This is just an assumption; there is no canon proof. Also, Tom didn't kill her, the basilisk did. I removed speculation that Tom made his Hogwarts Award for Special Services to the school into a horcrux, and that he used the murder of Bertha Jorkins to make Nagini a horcrux. The Award horcrux idea seems like original research, and Dumbledore said that the murder of Frank Bryce was probably used to make Nagini a horcrux. -- WhyBeNormal 03:46, August 17, 2005 (UTC)
I'm adding back my entry about Riddle's Award in the Trophy Room with references; when I initially put it in it technically was original spec. but I just *knew* it's it. Now, I've got a chapter to back me up, so back my entry's going. ~BrennaCeDria
I just removed a large section of OR called "Tracking Horcruxes". Friday (talk) 17:51, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why we want the "Horcrux precedents" section, which was just put back in Friday (talk) 13:36, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
I disagree that this article is about any and every item which holds the soul. The title is "Horcrux", to me this makes the topic pretty clear. If someone wanted to write an article on soul-holding items in general, they could certainly try to do so, altho it could easily become just another "List of something" article, which IMO aren't very encyclopedic. To try to say that this isn't a Harry Potter article is fairly ridiculous, IMO. Friday (talk) 21:12, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
I find it disturbing that people would intentionally remove pertinent information from articles. The point of mentioning precedents is to provide context for JKR's universe, showing how it fits into the larger realm of history, mythology, and fantasy. Like all modern creators, JKR stands on the shoulders of giants. Those who willfully conceal such clear points of reference are doing her (and the public at large) a great disservice. Frankie 15:31, 26 October 2005 (UTC)
I like the newly added bit to the intro text much better than the old "precedents" section. It fits into the article better this way, and doesn't seem strangely irrelevant anymore. Friday (talk) 18:47, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I just removed this section again, for the same reasons given above, plus the fact that Frankie already worked this idea into the article in a much better way than having a whole section devoted to it. If any feels the long section belongs back in there, I'd appreciate some discussion here about why. Friday (talk) 14:18, 11 November 2005 (UTC)
I have added an "Other theories include:" to the List of possible Horcruxes for those with there own theories (I did this at school, hence the different IP). Obviously, stick to the personal opinion rule when you add to it, it's there to mention that other people have those opinions, not saying that the opinions are correct.
Nagini's status as a Horcrux is uncertain. Dumbledore suggests the snake as a possibility based on the assumption that Voldemort had not found two other horcruxes at the time. If, for example, Harry were to be a horcrux, it is possible that nagini is not 129.170.202.34 08:39, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
I removed a new theory I've never seen before (along with the old Harry is a horcrux theory): Peter Pettigrew's hand. Unless I haven't been paying attention, this is never mentioned in the book, therefore, it doesn't belong here. -- D e ath phoenix 16:32, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be horcruces? 70.26.109.236 01:53, 30 November 2005 (UTC)
I've deleted speculations in the "Voldemort and Harry Potter" Section because the do not belong there. There is already a section called "Possible Horcruces". Please, people, stop putting in speculation that has no literary evidence in the books. If you have a theory, at least back it up with excerpts from the text. I personally think that the last section of this article is unnecessary as it only re-states what is already said. I did not want to delete it without some sort of consensus though, so I ask, Yay or Nay? Vanessa kelly 23:09, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
This page has become completely about the specific Horcruxes that Lord Voldemort has created. I think it should be split into two. This page should just talk about what a Horcrux is and a new page should be created for Lord Voldemort's Horcruxes. Long term this makes a lot more sense, especially because once the final book comes out, pretty much all the speculation will disappear. VanJoe 17:33, 7 Dec 2005 (UTC)
Persuant to comments in the above section, I removed the Harry's scar as a Horcrux theory. I let it stand because I wasn't sure if it was mentioned in any official channels. However, I haven't seen any proper citation for this theory, either in the books, or through official channels, and therefore I have removed this as uncited fan speculation. -- D e ath phoenix 19:00, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
I'm not sure how to handle some of the points in this section. 12 Grimmauld Place & Godric's Hollow are fine there, and "Death Eaters" might be acceptable. I'm not sure about the other points because they don't really rely on possible items that are mentioned in the books and aren't put forward by anyone in the books. Therefore, these rely on analysis and/or some speculation. OTOH, these other points are fairly well written, don't really detract from the quality of this article, and aren't as wildly speculative as other locations. Thoughts? -- D e ath phoenix 18:30, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I've accomplished in seven edits what I probably should have done in two, thus artificially inflating my edit count by five. Since I unilaterally removed a few items that might be disputed, I thought I should mention them here. As mentioned in the above section, I removed stuff that's pure speculation and unsupported by anything in the books:
This edit was an attempt to fix part of my major edit, however, this actually re-introduces the passive voice that I've been trying to remove somewhat from the article. Since I can fix this passive voice and still retain all the information in a meaningful way, I have decided to restore the active voice. -- D e ath phoenix 13:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
You can get the word "horcrux" by taking 3 letters of each word from "crumple horned snorcacks".
crumple horned snorcacks -> cru, hor, cks -> horcrucks -> horcrux
-- Muhaha 19:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)