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(archived 19 April 2005)
I moved facts about home-schooling to the front, and moved the for and against sections to the rear, since they are not substantive, i.e. do not describe the substance of the subject at hand. Describing the subject is not advocacy.
I tried to move advocacy so that for and against are clearly labelled, and a summary of the critics' values is prepended to each section. Please add counter-arguments to the appropriate section, rather than immediately following an opposing argument.
The NPOV turn of phrase is "This person says X."
I've actually read the supreme court opinion, as well as summaries by uninvolved (i.e. not affiliated with the Home School Legal Defense Association) constitutional scholars. It's not a controversy, it's the law. So, I changed the text to reflect that, but I left it in advocacy because it necessarily reflects some degree of approval of the activity, even though the official approval is rather grudging, and almost unintentional.
Since the article is substantively organized, and advocacy is better-labelled, I removed the not NPOV warning.
The article probably needs a more careful reading for advocacy, and more editing to move (not REmove) advocacy and rephrase it in NPOV.
Here is an edited version that 213.122.165.xxx reduced the original article to:
213.122.165.xxx , you probably don't realize that it is considered extremely impolite on Wikipedia to delete large amounts of content without explanation on the /Talk page. We really need to make this policy clearer in a few different places. -- LMS
Unit studies are not just found in home schools. I had to suffer through them in middle school. Perhaps it should just be given its own page. -- Eean
Given that this is almost entirely about the US, would a move to Home schooling in the US or similar be a good idea? jimfbleak 08:58 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I know this is going to ruffle a few feathers, but I deleted significant portions of text from the External Links section. There was a huge paragraph summarizing the first web site: information which can be found on the site itself. I trimmed all the entries to make them conform to Wikipedia guideline. The links are just that links—not propaganda sections for individual organizations. If you feel the need to discuss each links at length, do it in the article proper. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Just a reminder, if you're going to start a new topic here, use a title (like this section does) so user's can contribute to just that discussion instead of having to edit the entire Talk page. — Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I removed the addition by 128.172.208.126 of:
It is highly POV and sounds like a conspiracy theory. It is not backed up by any references whatsoever. The facts about Jefforson and Lincoln are fairly benign, but the rest is speculative. Unless someone can back it up with facts (not more speculation), I vote to leave it out. Actually, I'll re-add the first two sentences, but the rest will need some facts to back it up. — Frecklefoot 15:30, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I'm up with that. It could be NPOV'ed and put in the "support" section, e.g. "Some homeschoolers beleive that public schools were not created by our government to further the education of Americans..." I'm not a big fan of this subject, so someone else may want to NPOV and re-add it. — Frecklefoot 15:59, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The Robinson Curriculum is premised on the idea that ALL schoolwork can be homework. That is, after the kids are mature enough to keep going without adult supervision, learning just becomes another chore for them to do on their own.
This article needs a lot of work.... -- Uncle Ed 16:11, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I removed the following comment: "Like any industry, the home education world suffers its own fashions," leaving it here if anyone wants it back. IMO, this comment relegates unschooling to being a less-valuable "fashion" or "fad" that is currently taking the homeschooling world by storm by may fade away tomorrow to be replaced with the next best thing. That's not NPOV.
It would be better to clean up the article and make a section on different approaches to homeschooling, including arguments for and against. There's plenty of arguments for and against unschooling, as well as classical education, school-at-home, unit-study approaches, Montessori (why is there no link to Montessori in this article), and others I can't remember at the moment. Each method deserves its own section in this article.
In case someone from outside the homeschool mindset reads this, be aware that in addition to the friction between "the homeschooling community" and the rest of the world, there is also friction within "the homeschooling community" between proponents of different methods.
Jdavidb 17:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I find it conspicuously lacking a figure of homeschoolers. How many homeschoolers are in the US (since it seems the only place with enough drive)? 0,1%, 1%, 10%? Even a wide margin would be better than nothing.
Is there a increase or decrease of the percentage as grades increase? Why? Do parents feel that some ages are better suited for a certain kind of schooling than others? Or do they think that homeschooling works for every age? We only have a mention of pre-scholars.
I moved this - can we say who predicted this, and when this is anticipated? I'm a littel uncomfortable otherwise. Mark Richards 20:00, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC) It is predicted that by the end of the Culture Wars, the better parts of unschooling will be synthesized into more traditional methodologies.
I've placed an NPOV header, as I don't feel that this article follows Wikipedia:NPOV. Someone more knowledgeable than I needs to fix it. Best, [[User:Meelar| Meelar (talk)]] 19:11, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The section titled "Homeschooling from a homeschooler's point of view" doesn't belong here, it's essentially an anonymous opinion. Rhobite 01:28, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
This article has more external links than I've ever seen in any other article. Do we really need a list of homeschooling sites for every friggin' state? How about every nation and every town too? Wikipedia is not a collection of just links. If someone really wants these links, let them make their own web site with them. I don't think this article should have so many of 'em. It should have information on homeschooling, thorough and NPOV. The links belong elsewhere on the web. Just MHO. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:32, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)
This article does need a lot of work, so I've created a draft outline for what it might eventually look like. Please feel free to revise, improve, extend.
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
(archived 19 April 2005)
I moved facts about home-schooling to the front, and moved the for and against sections to the rear, since they are not substantive, i.e. do not describe the substance of the subject at hand. Describing the subject is not advocacy.
I tried to move advocacy so that for and against are clearly labelled, and a summary of the critics' values is prepended to each section. Please add counter-arguments to the appropriate section, rather than immediately following an opposing argument.
The NPOV turn of phrase is "This person says X."
I've actually read the supreme court opinion, as well as summaries by uninvolved (i.e. not affiliated with the Home School Legal Defense Association) constitutional scholars. It's not a controversy, it's the law. So, I changed the text to reflect that, but I left it in advocacy because it necessarily reflects some degree of approval of the activity, even though the official approval is rather grudging, and almost unintentional.
Since the article is substantively organized, and advocacy is better-labelled, I removed the not NPOV warning.
The article probably needs a more careful reading for advocacy, and more editing to move (not REmove) advocacy and rephrase it in NPOV.
Here is an edited version that 213.122.165.xxx reduced the original article to:
213.122.165.xxx , you probably don't realize that it is considered extremely impolite on Wikipedia to delete large amounts of content without explanation on the /Talk page. We really need to make this policy clearer in a few different places. -- LMS
Unit studies are not just found in home schools. I had to suffer through them in middle school. Perhaps it should just be given its own page. -- Eean
Given that this is almost entirely about the US, would a move to Home schooling in the US or similar be a good idea? jimfbleak 08:58 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I know this is going to ruffle a few feathers, but I deleted significant portions of text from the External Links section. There was a huge paragraph summarizing the first web site: information which can be found on the site itself. I trimmed all the entries to make them conform to Wikipedia guideline. The links are just that links—not propaganda sections for individual organizations. If you feel the need to discuss each links at length, do it in the article proper. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
Just a reminder, if you're going to start a new topic here, use a title (like this section does) so user's can contribute to just that discussion instead of having to edit the entire Talk page. — Frecklefoot 15:56, 30 Jan 2004 (UTC)
I removed the addition by 128.172.208.126 of:
It is highly POV and sounds like a conspiracy theory. It is not backed up by any references whatsoever. The facts about Jefforson and Lincoln are fairly benign, but the rest is speculative. Unless someone can back it up with facts (not more speculation), I vote to leave it out. Actually, I'll re-add the first two sentences, but the rest will need some facts to back it up. — Frecklefoot 15:30, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I'm up with that. It could be NPOV'ed and put in the "support" section, e.g. "Some homeschoolers beleive that public schools were not created by our government to further the education of Americans..." I'm not a big fan of this subject, so someone else may want to NPOV and re-add it. — Frecklefoot 15:59, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
The Robinson Curriculum is premised on the idea that ALL schoolwork can be homework. That is, after the kids are mature enough to keep going without adult supervision, learning just becomes another chore for them to do on their own.
This article needs a lot of work.... -- Uncle Ed 16:11, 6 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I removed the following comment: "Like any industry, the home education world suffers its own fashions," leaving it here if anyone wants it back. IMO, this comment relegates unschooling to being a less-valuable "fashion" or "fad" that is currently taking the homeschooling world by storm by may fade away tomorrow to be replaced with the next best thing. That's not NPOV.
It would be better to clean up the article and make a section on different approaches to homeschooling, including arguments for and against. There's plenty of arguments for and against unschooling, as well as classical education, school-at-home, unit-study approaches, Montessori (why is there no link to Montessori in this article), and others I can't remember at the moment. Each method deserves its own section in this article.
In case someone from outside the homeschool mindset reads this, be aware that in addition to the friction between "the homeschooling community" and the rest of the world, there is also friction within "the homeschooling community" between proponents of different methods.
Jdavidb 17:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I find it conspicuously lacking a figure of homeschoolers. How many homeschoolers are in the US (since it seems the only place with enough drive)? 0,1%, 1%, 10%? Even a wide margin would be better than nothing.
Is there a increase or decrease of the percentage as grades increase? Why? Do parents feel that some ages are better suited for a certain kind of schooling than others? Or do they think that homeschooling works for every age? We only have a mention of pre-scholars.
I moved this - can we say who predicted this, and when this is anticipated? I'm a littel uncomfortable otherwise. Mark Richards 20:00, 2 Mar 2004 (UTC) It is predicted that by the end of the Culture Wars, the better parts of unschooling will be synthesized into more traditional methodologies.
I've placed an NPOV header, as I don't feel that this article follows Wikipedia:NPOV. Someone more knowledgeable than I needs to fix it. Best, [[User:Meelar| Meelar (talk)]] 19:11, 20 Jun 2004 (UTC)
The section titled "Homeschooling from a homeschooler's point of view" doesn't belong here, it's essentially an anonymous opinion. Rhobite 01:28, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
This article has more external links than I've ever seen in any other article. Do we really need a list of homeschooling sites for every friggin' state? How about every nation and every town too? Wikipedia is not a collection of just links. If someone really wants these links, let them make their own web site with them. I don't think this article should have so many of 'em. It should have information on homeschooling, thorough and NPOV. The links belong elsewhere on the web. Just MHO. Peace. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 19:32, Jul 8, 2004 (UTC)
This article does need a lot of work, so I've created a draft outline for what it might eventually look like. Please feel free to revise, improve, extend.