This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Holy Royal Arch article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
I am slowly filling up the section of history, but I could do with some help on the histry of how it became part of York Rite Boooooom ( talk) 07:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
The language and vocab used throughout this article is very specialised and inaccessible to the general public. I have added the {{ technical}}template here to indicate that. Crispness ( talk) 06:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
The list of Chapter officers has sat here very happily until the last couple of days, when the office of Janitor has twice been removed by American editors. With respect, this is why we have two seperate articles. The American version of the Royal Arch, as practiced within the York Rite, has an article at Royal Arch Masonry. In the United Kingdom, and throughout the nations of 'British influence' (including the Commonwealth, former British Empire nations, western Europe, and the (masonically) developing constitutions of Eastern Europe) Royal Arch masonry functions independently as "the completion of pure, ancient, masonry" in Royal Arch Chapters attached to Craft Lodges. In British English there is no common use of the word "Janitor". We understand that this is a common term in American English and that every school, library, and public building has a 'Janitor' who maintains the site, cleans the buildings, etc, etc. In British English we call such a person a "Caretaker". The only places that you will commonly hear the word 'Janitor' in England are on American TV programmes and in Royal Arch Chapters. Every Chapter has a Janitor, who serves the equivalent office of the Tyler in a Craft Lodge. Similarly, there is a Provincial Grand Janitor in every Province (or Metropolitan Grand Janitor in London), and a Grand Janitor in the Grand Chapter. The same applies in a majority of non-USA nations worldwide! Just as the final toast on a Lodge night is the "Tyler's Toast", so the final toast on a Chapter night is the "Janitor's Toast".
All this is apparently known to Americans, as shown here on the website of the Grand Chapter of New York. You may read of the office in the ritual exposure here at Bilderberg. Here are model bylaws for Chapters, issued by the Provincial Grand Chapter of Cheshire, with the Janitor covered at by-law 3. Here is the current list of officers of the Grand Chapter of Western Australia (the Grand Janitor is the last named on the list, at the bottom). Here is a similar list for the Grand Chapter of Ireland (Grand Janitor is fourth from bottom of the list). Here are the Constitutions of the Grand Chapter of England, with the Grand Janitor listed at line 50 on page 203, and again on page 219, and Janitors of private Chapters listed on page 232. This article at Pietre-Stones documents the establishing of the first Grand Chapter of Canada, ending with a list of the first Grand Officers, including the Janitor. A quick check on eBay will show you Janitor's regalia for sale, such as this jewel recently sold there.
With the greatest of respect to our American cousins, a quick Google search would have produced literally thousands of examples of the Masonic Royal Arch Janitor for you, and would have avoided the unfortunate impression (yet again) that certain American editors are incapable of co-existing with their older cousins on this side of the Atlantic, and the language and traditions of original (British) English. It was a genuine error by the first editor to remove the term, but I'm amazed that a second editor did the same thing, without bothering to check. Timothy Titus Talk To TT 03:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I appreciate that I'm in Chapter in Scotland (we just call it Royal Arch here), so things might be different where you all are, but doesn't anyone think the Triple Tau roundel given here looks a wee bit squashed? I mean, the encircling red line looks Stewie Griffin's head, instead of a circle. Can that be right? Is it actually supposed to look like that? Or is it just my browser? Nuttyskin ( talk) 18:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
It is incorrect to say that the Excellent Master Degree i.e. the Passing of the Veils is not practised in England i.e the English Consitution (EC). Bristol is the only Province in the EC that is allowed to include this degree as part of the exaltation ceremony in Bristol Royal Arch Chapters, which was introduced in 1904, and is based upon the Irish Constitution Excellent Masters degree ceremony. At a Supreme Grand Chapter meeting in London in November 2009, which I attended along with a number of others, a team from Bristol demonstrated the Excellent Masters Degree. It is also worth noting that a number of Chapters in the EC have demonstration teams that perform the Excellent Masters degree on an annual basis. Aquizard ( talk) 23:00, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Holy Royal Arch article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
I am slowly filling up the section of history, but I could do with some help on the histry of how it became part of York Rite Boooooom ( talk) 07:33, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
The language and vocab used throughout this article is very specialised and inaccessible to the general public. I have added the {{ technical}}template here to indicate that. Crispness ( talk) 06:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
The list of Chapter officers has sat here very happily until the last couple of days, when the office of Janitor has twice been removed by American editors. With respect, this is why we have two seperate articles. The American version of the Royal Arch, as practiced within the York Rite, has an article at Royal Arch Masonry. In the United Kingdom, and throughout the nations of 'British influence' (including the Commonwealth, former British Empire nations, western Europe, and the (masonically) developing constitutions of Eastern Europe) Royal Arch masonry functions independently as "the completion of pure, ancient, masonry" in Royal Arch Chapters attached to Craft Lodges. In British English there is no common use of the word "Janitor". We understand that this is a common term in American English and that every school, library, and public building has a 'Janitor' who maintains the site, cleans the buildings, etc, etc. In British English we call such a person a "Caretaker". The only places that you will commonly hear the word 'Janitor' in England are on American TV programmes and in Royal Arch Chapters. Every Chapter has a Janitor, who serves the equivalent office of the Tyler in a Craft Lodge. Similarly, there is a Provincial Grand Janitor in every Province (or Metropolitan Grand Janitor in London), and a Grand Janitor in the Grand Chapter. The same applies in a majority of non-USA nations worldwide! Just as the final toast on a Lodge night is the "Tyler's Toast", so the final toast on a Chapter night is the "Janitor's Toast".
All this is apparently known to Americans, as shown here on the website of the Grand Chapter of New York. You may read of the office in the ritual exposure here at Bilderberg. Here are model bylaws for Chapters, issued by the Provincial Grand Chapter of Cheshire, with the Janitor covered at by-law 3. Here is the current list of officers of the Grand Chapter of Western Australia (the Grand Janitor is the last named on the list, at the bottom). Here is a similar list for the Grand Chapter of Ireland (Grand Janitor is fourth from bottom of the list). Here are the Constitutions of the Grand Chapter of England, with the Grand Janitor listed at line 50 on page 203, and again on page 219, and Janitors of private Chapters listed on page 232. This article at Pietre-Stones documents the establishing of the first Grand Chapter of Canada, ending with a list of the first Grand Officers, including the Janitor. A quick check on eBay will show you Janitor's regalia for sale, such as this jewel recently sold there.
With the greatest of respect to our American cousins, a quick Google search would have produced literally thousands of examples of the Masonic Royal Arch Janitor for you, and would have avoided the unfortunate impression (yet again) that certain American editors are incapable of co-existing with their older cousins on this side of the Atlantic, and the language and traditions of original (British) English. It was a genuine error by the first editor to remove the term, but I'm amazed that a second editor did the same thing, without bothering to check. Timothy Titus Talk To TT 03:26, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
I appreciate that I'm in Chapter in Scotland (we just call it Royal Arch here), so things might be different where you all are, but doesn't anyone think the Triple Tau roundel given here looks a wee bit squashed? I mean, the encircling red line looks Stewie Griffin's head, instead of a circle. Can that be right? Is it actually supposed to look like that? Or is it just my browser? Nuttyskin ( talk) 18:40, 29 November 2011 (UTC)
It is incorrect to say that the Excellent Master Degree i.e. the Passing of the Veils is not practised in England i.e the English Consitution (EC). Bristol is the only Province in the EC that is allowed to include this degree as part of the exaltation ceremony in Bristol Royal Arch Chapters, which was introduced in 1904, and is based upon the Irish Constitution Excellent Masters degree ceremony. At a Supreme Grand Chapter meeting in London in November 2009, which I attended along with a number of others, a team from Bristol demonstrated the Excellent Masters Degree. It is also worth noting that a number of Chapters in the EC have demonstration teams that perform the Excellent Masters degree on an annual basis. Aquizard ( talk) 23:00, 16 December 2012 (UTC)