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Hohhot means Green City, not Blue City. Also the mountains to the north are the Great Green Mountains. I was born there and also worked as tour guide so I know this very well. [Zhao Jiyan 28 April 2007]
Wow. Well, good example of why WP:V and WP:RS are a thing.
The article has been wrong for 20+ years now since Zhao Jiyan was right: If anyone had bothered to check an actual source on Mongolian colors in placenames (e.g., here although sure this is a 2023 paper), (a) Mongolians freakin' love colors in placenames and use them all the time; (b) early placenames absolutely use khökh, köke, höh, &c. to mean both dark blue and grassy green exactly the same way as historic Chinese 青 (cf. blue-green distinction); and (c) that had nothing to do with Chinese wuxing theory, although by the time Hohhot was founded sure it might've been an influence. Just like modern Chinese easily mix up old references to 青 with the word's modern use for fresh-growth light green, Mongolians themselves get confused by the much newer nogoon and sharply distinguish it from khökh &c. even though their ancestors didn't. That said, sure, it may have referred to blue and certainly does now. It simply isn't "mistaken" that people alternatively translate it as green.
The first 1572 Hohhot (Kökekhota, Kuku-khoto, &c.) was Altan Khan's palace and monastery Mayidari Juu near the Yellow River ( 1, 2) outside modern Baotou ( 3). The reason isn't explained but presumably the second settlement (built by the same guy shortly thereafter to function as its replacement) was named after the first & not for the Daqing Mountains or the local grass.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned but should be is the change from köke, kuku, &c. to höh. What was the timing for any official shift? and is the Chinese name so off because it was based on the previous form of the name or because Chinese can't help but add some more vowels to terminal consonants since it has so few itself? — LlywelynII 12:23, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
The transcription Kökeqota switches from front to back vocalic mid word. Since it is two words this is ok I guess, but then shouldnt the Mongolian word be written with a space and an initial Q rather than a medial Q? Tibetologist ( talk) 00:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I believe the name of city refers both Deep Blue and Eternal. Kokhe also means generous or plain.-- Enerelt ( talk) 02:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Nope. See above. — LlywelynII 12:23, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
The official page says Huhhot: http://www.huhhot.gov.cn/home/index.asp-- 89.14.109.76 ( talk) 13:11, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Is Mongolian "eternal blue" synonymous with a metallic tint perhaps perceived through the impression of the firmament (aura of Neptune) rather than green (turquoise) or black (navy)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.148 ( talk) 02:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Is the literal color of the sky not a metallic hue? Be that the case, would it not be a color of the west. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.134 ( talk) 03:40, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
The article begibs "Hohhot (.....), abbreviated Hushi....". However am I right that Hushi is not an abbreviation of Hohhot? Rather it is an abbreviation of the Chinese name 呼和浩特; pinyin: Hūhéhàotè)? If so, it would be better to put the abbreviation after the Chinese name, and inside the brackets. The current drafting suggests the abbreviation is of Hohhot. Schnackal ( talk) 19:36, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
My impression is that the first capital of the Inner Mongolia autonomous region was Wangyemiao/Ulanhot. Zhangjiakou was never(?) part of the IMAR, and this makes me wonder how Hohhot is supposed to have replaced it. It had been the capital of Mengjiang, but whether IMAR is supposed to be a successor of this regime is probably questionable. "Common knowledge" doesn't really seem to help here. And I don't think it's asking too much to provide a reliable source to when Hohhot became capital of the IMAR, when this was decided, what were the other candidates etc. Yaan ( talk) 12:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Question about the Culture section: how significant is "Muslim architecture" in Hohhot? Which buildings or neighborhoods are being referred to? - Ferronier ( talk) 08:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
The city's old town's main street, I believe it is called Hulun Buir Road, is entirely muslim themed. The city has a muslim district, Huimin District. I used to live there. Colipon+( T) 10:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you mean Hulun Buir or Tongdao? Tongdao is the one pictured at the top of the article, where the Great Mosque is. Hulun Buir is about two blocks to the east of there, running just west of the Xincheng Hotel and Nei Da. - Ferronier ( talk) 03:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well I'm going there this weekend I think. I can check for you and maybe even take a few more pictures. But is Tongdao the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen? Huimin District has a bunch of halal (qingzhen) muslim restaurants as far as I can remember. The rest of the city is basically like any other Chinese city with Mongolian writing on all signs.
That being said, the Muslim architecture was a municipal project designed to make the city look nicer. I don't know if it was actually meant to reflect the city's demographics. I think only about 3% of the city is Muslim. Colipon+( T) 02:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your responses. Yes, Tongdao is the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen. My point is that the Muslim "architecture" along there is just facades, put up around 2006 for the 60th anniversary celebration. A municipal project, as you said. And "Muslim-themed" is definitely the word for it. (Right before the celebration, in summer 2007, they added astonishing Mongolian-themed facades along the north leg of Tongdao street.) Besides the facades I'm sure you know the centuries-old Great Mosque itself, which is not in that Islamicate style at all, but built much like a Chinese temple, though with different colors and different symbols painted on the walls. So...just checking that you weren't referring to any other building besides the two kinds above.
The Hui people themselves are certainly a presence in Hohhot, regardless of architecture.
If you or anyone is interested in a (not terribly recent) published source about Hohhot culture, the following book has been recommended to me, though I haven't gotten access to it yet myself:
- Ferronier ( talk) 06:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Flights from Hohhot to Ulaanbaatar have been stopped since the provider, Aero Mongolia, had its license suspended last fall. Here is a news video (Mongolian with English subtitles) covering the suspension. – Ferronier ( talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Aero Mongolia Suspension (MediaScrape)
The lack of citations in this article has been bothering me for some time, especially when it comes to straightforward things like statistics and historical names and dates that could be easily looked up. In fact I bet people did look them up before adding them. Please share your sources with the rest of us!
The fact tags I've just put in are in no way meant to challenge the veracity of the information. They are more of a to-do list for myself and anyone else interested in tracking down sources. – Ferronier ( talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Note on population figures: the book I cite has the most complete breakdown of the ethnic groups in Hohhot that I've found so far, but it would be better to cite an official statistical report if anyone can get one. Better still if it's in English.... – Ferronier ( talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
[List of bare URLs commented out below] Rajmaan ( talk) 03:59, 1 February 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hohhot means Green City, not Blue City. Also the mountains to the north are the Great Green Mountains. I was born there and also worked as tour guide so I know this very well. [Zhao Jiyan 28 April 2007]
Wow. Well, good example of why WP:V and WP:RS are a thing.
The article has been wrong for 20+ years now since Zhao Jiyan was right: If anyone had bothered to check an actual source on Mongolian colors in placenames (e.g., here although sure this is a 2023 paper), (a) Mongolians freakin' love colors in placenames and use them all the time; (b) early placenames absolutely use khökh, köke, höh, &c. to mean both dark blue and grassy green exactly the same way as historic Chinese 青 (cf. blue-green distinction); and (c) that had nothing to do with Chinese wuxing theory, although by the time Hohhot was founded sure it might've been an influence. Just like modern Chinese easily mix up old references to 青 with the word's modern use for fresh-growth light green, Mongolians themselves get confused by the much newer nogoon and sharply distinguish it from khökh &c. even though their ancestors didn't. That said, sure, it may have referred to blue and certainly does now. It simply isn't "mistaken" that people alternatively translate it as green.
The first 1572 Hohhot (Kökekhota, Kuku-khoto, &c.) was Altan Khan's palace and monastery Mayidari Juu near the Yellow River ( 1, 2) outside modern Baotou ( 3). The reason isn't explained but presumably the second settlement (built by the same guy shortly thereafter to function as its replacement) was named after the first & not for the Daqing Mountains or the local grass.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned but should be is the change from köke, kuku, &c. to höh. What was the timing for any official shift? and is the Chinese name so off because it was based on the previous form of the name or because Chinese can't help but add some more vowels to terminal consonants since it has so few itself? — LlywelynII 12:23, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
The transcription Kökeqota switches from front to back vocalic mid word. Since it is two words this is ok I guess, but then shouldnt the Mongolian word be written with a space and an initial Q rather than a medial Q? Tibetologist ( talk) 00:02, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
I believe the name of city refers both Deep Blue and Eternal. Kokhe also means generous or plain.-- Enerelt ( talk) 02:56, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Nope. See above. — LlywelynII 12:23, 29 June 2024 (UTC)
The official page says Huhhot: http://www.huhhot.gov.cn/home/index.asp-- 89.14.109.76 ( talk) 13:11, 8 September 2013 (UTC)
Is Mongolian "eternal blue" synonymous with a metallic tint perhaps perceived through the impression of the firmament (aura of Neptune) rather than green (turquoise) or black (navy)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.148 ( talk) 02:51, 30 January 2015 (UTC)
Is the literal color of the sky not a metallic hue? Be that the case, would it not be a color of the west. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.203.140.134 ( talk) 03:40, 3 October 2014 (UTC)
The article begibs "Hohhot (.....), abbreviated Hushi....". However am I right that Hushi is not an abbreviation of Hohhot? Rather it is an abbreviation of the Chinese name 呼和浩特; pinyin: Hūhéhàotè)? If so, it would be better to put the abbreviation after the Chinese name, and inside the brackets. The current drafting suggests the abbreviation is of Hohhot. Schnackal ( talk) 19:36, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
My impression is that the first capital of the Inner Mongolia autonomous region was Wangyemiao/Ulanhot. Zhangjiakou was never(?) part of the IMAR, and this makes me wonder how Hohhot is supposed to have replaced it. It had been the capital of Mengjiang, but whether IMAR is supposed to be a successor of this regime is probably questionable. "Common knowledge" doesn't really seem to help here. And I don't think it's asking too much to provide a reliable source to when Hohhot became capital of the IMAR, when this was decided, what were the other candidates etc. Yaan ( talk) 12:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Question about the Culture section: how significant is "Muslim architecture" in Hohhot? Which buildings or neighborhoods are being referred to? - Ferronier ( talk) 08:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
The city's old town's main street, I believe it is called Hulun Buir Road, is entirely muslim themed. The city has a muslim district, Huimin District. I used to live there. Colipon+( T) 10:30, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Do you mean Hulun Buir or Tongdao? Tongdao is the one pictured at the top of the article, where the Great Mosque is. Hulun Buir is about two blocks to the east of there, running just west of the Xincheng Hotel and Nei Da. - Ferronier ( talk) 03:18, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Well I'm going there this weekend I think. I can check for you and maybe even take a few more pictures. But is Tongdao the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen? Huimin District has a bunch of halal (qingzhen) muslim restaurants as far as I can remember. The rest of the city is basically like any other Chinese city with Mongolian writing on all signs.
That being said, the Muslim architecture was a municipal project designed to make the city look nicer. I don't know if it was actually meant to reflect the city's demographics. I think only about 3% of the city is Muslim. Colipon+( T) 02:59, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your responses. Yes, Tongdao is the one that leads to Jiucheng Beimen. My point is that the Muslim "architecture" along there is just facades, put up around 2006 for the 60th anniversary celebration. A municipal project, as you said. And "Muslim-themed" is definitely the word for it. (Right before the celebration, in summer 2007, they added astonishing Mongolian-themed facades along the north leg of Tongdao street.) Besides the facades I'm sure you know the centuries-old Great Mosque itself, which is not in that Islamicate style at all, but built much like a Chinese temple, though with different colors and different symbols painted on the walls. So...just checking that you weren't referring to any other building besides the two kinds above.
The Hui people themselves are certainly a presence in Hohhot, regardless of architecture.
If you or anyone is interested in a (not terribly recent) published source about Hohhot culture, the following book has been recommended to me, though I haven't gotten access to it yet myself:
- Ferronier ( talk) 06:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Flights from Hohhot to Ulaanbaatar have been stopped since the provider, Aero Mongolia, had its license suspended last fall. Here is a news video (Mongolian with English subtitles) covering the suspension. – Ferronier ( talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC) Aero Mongolia Suspension (MediaScrape)
The lack of citations in this article has been bothering me for some time, especially when it comes to straightforward things like statistics and historical names and dates that could be easily looked up. In fact I bet people did look them up before adding them. Please share your sources with the rest of us!
The fact tags I've just put in are in no way meant to challenge the veracity of the information. They are more of a to-do list for myself and anyone else interested in tracking down sources. – Ferronier ( talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
Note on population figures: the book I cite has the most complete breakdown of the ethnic groups in Hohhot that I've found so far, but it would be better to cite an official statistical report if anyone can get one. Better still if it's in English.... – Ferronier ( talk) 07:38, 21 August 2008 (UTC)
[List of bare URLs commented out below] Rajmaan ( talk) 03:59, 1 February 2014 (UTC)