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So, like how do you pronounce this word? - Anon reader —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.172.163 ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 1 January 2005
Is it important for the first foot to cross a threshold in the new year be a right foot (i.e. not a left one)? Doops | talk 20:57, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The first foot is a person not a foot, so the question doesn't really make sense. The important thing about the person is not which foot they use to cross the threshold but whether they are tall, dark, rich, handsome, male and bearing the appropriate gifts (score one luck point for each of the foregoing that applies to your first foot, <grin>). -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Not that I know of. That is why the article says However none of these is more than guesswork. There is little or no evidence for any of the suggested etymologies including the "hug-me-now" one. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Where I live in Scotland it depends who says Hogmanay - there are a group who seem intent in pronouncing "O" as "U" whilst a lot of the people still pronounce the "O" as "O". It seems the group are of the same literacy level as the very plum in the mouth women who if they cannot find their VOLVO car will ask even complete strangers if they have seen the "VULVA" and usually they tend to be rather pretty ugly! The same women also don't fly in an aeroplane or aircraft they board an "Aee ru plarn." They seem to think it sound educated - it doesn't it marks them as ignorant and are of the same ilk that start a sentence with "So what we have here is ...," or "It's kind of like raining ... and I'm kind of getting wet ..." The importation of USA film "star" ignorance in to the language is deplorable. As far as I am concerned I shall continue to pronounce the word HOG MAH NAY. A TRUE SCOT from Balmedie - Trump where was your forebears at Culloden - probably alongside Salmond's hiding in the furthest bothy! Mine were alongside the Prince on his right side! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.245.95 ( talk) 11:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
so, how does one wish someone else a happy hogmanay? What is commonly said - what do cards say, etc? "Happy Hogmanay?" "Merry Hogmanay?"
What are the traditional and common greetings?
Not sure about traditional in Scotland, but my Grandfather used to follow the same ritual every Hogmanay. The first footer always brings a small bag of salt, a small piece of coal and a bottle of whiskey, and knocks on the door on the stroke of midnight. When I was a young lad, the first footer was also accompanied by a piper who would play "My Home" or some other good tune! The first footer would greet the home owner with something like:
Good sir, I bring you salt to salt your meat, and I bring you coal to keep your fire lit. From me and mine, to you an yours Happy New year, and lang may your lum reak! The first footer then hands over the salt and coal.
The home owner then responds with something like, and a happy new year to you and yours. Will you share a dram before joining us?
At this point, a nip of scotch is shared from their respective bottles, with the toast being (I don't know the spelling so I will write it phoenetically) slanjee va!
The the first footer and the home owner enter the house together and everyone in the houselhold takes a wee dram from both bottles. In our houselhold, it didn't matter if you were 5 or 50, you still got a nip.
We carry on the tradition to this day!
She also said it's roots went right back to Pagan worship of "Molec", to whom the Pagans sacrificed their childred in the fire.
there's a custom of writing your name on a stone and putting it in the fire. Any stone not in the fire or broken will indicate the death of the owner. 93.233.35.213 ( talk) 10:17, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
In answer to the original question, I've never heard 'Happy Hogmanay' or any variation of that used in Scotland. As Mr Purple says, people wish each other 'Happy New Year'; I'd add that I was told as a small child in no uncertain terms that it was something verging on bad luck to wish a Happy New Year before the bells (i.e. before midnight). If speaking to somebody you wouldn't be seeing at the turn of the year, I was taught that the done thing was to say 'have a good New Year when it comes'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.121.111.56 ( talk) 17:20, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Houl oan a meenut. just put a cite needed about that Steak pie. While it sounds delectable, dindins on the last day for anyone that I know consists of the final Xmas remnants or the first set of new mince to arrive in the fridge once Teescos has reopened! AND..shouldn't it be a mutton pie? Brendandh 03:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
1st and 2nd are bank holidays in Scotland, not the 3rd.-- Brideshead 15:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Not strictly true I'm afraid, see the section of the article entitled Ne'er day which clarifies things. Fraslet 15:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't find an article entitled ne'er day, however the Bank Holiday page states that 1st and 2nd are holidays. -- Brideshead 17:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I was referring to the section of the Hogmanay article which is entitled Ne'erday.
Fraslet
17:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If you ask most Scots nowadays how their Hogmanay was, the most common response seems to be "Oh, very quiet". It seems the first-footing custom is in danger of dying out. When I was a teenager the first-footing and parties seemed to last for days. What do others think, and maybe a paragragh on this subject would enhance the article. EdX20 21:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Whilst Hogmany is still a big thing in Scotland, the old traditions like first-footing etc. are becoming increasingly rare. I would warrant many Scottish children don't even know what first-footing is! 2.102.81.66 ( talk) 16:44, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Was this any more or less uncited and dubious than any of the others? Why single it out for deletion? 172.216.71.238 ( talk) 21:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
No, no more uncited, arguable if it's any more dubious. Uncited and dubious it is though, which is enough to ditch it. Was a new edit therefore highlighted as a change and very quick to undo. It doesn't mean I'm endorsing the rest of the article or indeed vast swathes of uncited text throughout Wikipedia. If you reckon it's credible and have a citation, by all means add it back. That whole section could do with in-text citations. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 23:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to quibble but old French is usually considered to have been replaced by early modern French around 1400 CE, long before the 16th century... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.98.159 ( talk) 16:10, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
I've never, ever heard the Spanish word aguinaldo cited as a possible origin. It should be removed in my opinion. 82.108.205.6 ( talk) 15:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
"It has become traditional for this to be sung in a circle of linked arms that are crossed over one another as the clock strikes midnight for New Year's Day." Hmm. Well yes and no. It has indeed become traditional, but properly, the arms shouldn\t be crossed until the last verse. Adding info to this effect. Tpacw ( talk) 09:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Can you explain why this is the proper way to do it and cite it please? Mutt Lunker ( talk) 14:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I would also agree, instinctively, but obviously that cuts no ice here. Was just pointing out that this kind of statement needs backed up. I reckon the Lancashire Evening Telegraph one is a good citation. Would be interesting to find more info on why arms are crossed in the last verse, when people started doing it, where they started doing it etc.. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 16:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Um, I think there was an indirect source on the Auld Lang Syne page, which mentioned the Queen crossing arms when it was sung at the millenium, and how this is 'correct practice'. I'll go and dig it up.
Tpacw (
talk)
19:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Its very simple really "And there's a hand, my trusty fiere!' You give a hand to the next guy - 'And gie's a hand o' thine!' he passes his to you. They are then crossed. I should imagine it would be difficult to verify unless there is an anthropological text on it somewhere. We were crossing arms long before the millennium but how reliable is a report on a modern Queen as an indication of past custom? Tarzanlordofthejungle ( talk) 10:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
At one time at the end of the night, regardless if it was New Year or not at every dance, wedding or any sort of party, Auld Lang Syne was sung. The arms were never crossed till the verse " and gies the hand o' thine". Auld Lang Syne sung is very rarely sung now at the end of celebrations and is normally reserved for Hogmanay.. As far as I am concerned, there is no argument. The arms are not crossed till the noted verse and never before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.35.103 ( talk) 01:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
The way I've always done it: Hold hands for first verse/chorus, not crossed, but swinging hand in and out. Second verse - cross hands. Second chorus - hands still crossed, everyone charges into the middle of the room on first line, out again on second, in again on third. Is this common? 86.169.17.77 ( talk) 20:33, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I found this 1954 cookbook which was compiled by a Miss F. Marian McNeille who (according to the text) published a work on Scottish folk-lore entitled " The Silver Bough".
It has a couple pages that discuss old Hogmanay traditions, and there are some "traditional" recipes for "Hogmanay fare" and maybe be worth looking at for material. On the other hand its suitability as a reference is up for debate.
Not being fluent in Scottish phrases I am afraid I don't understand all of the words but maybe someone here does. For example; "...the chappin' o' the Twal'..." is completely lost on me but my instinct says it ought to be mentioned in this article or the first-foot article. 66.102.205.172 ( talk) 15:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Brideshead's edit on 31st Dec 09 states that Stonehaven is in Aberdeenshire because "Kincardineshire hasn't existed for years". I would challenge that. Whilst it is true that the local government region of Kincardineshire no longer exists, the county itself quite definately does, and Stonehaven is quite definately in it. For instance, see the location information given by Google maps for Stonehaven Firechucker ( talk) 14:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Kincardineshire does still exist as a Lord Lieutenancy area but it is more common to say Stonehaven is within Aberdeenshire than Kincardineshire as Kincardineshire is purely ceremonial. Although from my experience from living nearby in Banchory post addressed as Kincardineshire still reached us. People still use it but in all the time I lived in Banchory I never used the term Kincardineshire. Micropot ( talk) 23:11, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Shouln't theacht meán oíche" be spelt theacht mean oíche - the fada over the a seems wrong, but I'm not fluent enough to be certain. Autarch ( talk) 20:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The text says of Ne'erday "When Ne'erday falls on a Sunday, 3 January becomes an additional public holiday in Scotland" but nowhere does it say when Ne'erday is normally. i am guessing that it is 2 Jan but it does not say
Jpff ( talk) 11:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Tall dark men? Could this be ambiguous? Should it be changed to "tall, dark-haired men" or, and here I'm going by a childhood memory, can the term 'dark' also cover their clothing? I seem to remember a reference to coalmen (i.e. coal merchants or miners) fitting the bill, but that may have been an adult joke at my expense! Kim Traynor ( talk) 13:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
In her memoir Voices in the Street, Growing up in Dundee (2006) Maureen Reynolds writes, "It was eight o'clock on Hogmanay, the last night of 1941, and we were all busy cleaning the house. This annual tradition had to be tackled before the start of a new year." She goes on to describe in some detail a thorough cleaning of the house with the whole family involved. Unfortunately, she does not state whether this was just a family tradition, or was also being done in other households. I assume most families would have cleaned up their houses in advance of receiving first-footing visitors, but I wonder if anyone can help confirm that this was a widespread ritual? If we receive several comments confirming it was geographically widespread, it would be worth adding to the article under the Customs section heading. Kim Traynor ( talk) 13:57, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
The opening and closing of doors used to be practiced in Edinburgh at least till the 1970's. I seem to remember the front doors were opened to let the new year in and the back doors opened to let the old year out. Can't remember the exact format but remember this being practiced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.35.103 ( talk) 01:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
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I really question the need for any pronunciation guide at all. What is the evidence that any competent English speaker finds the word difficult to pronounce? John ( talk) 14:25, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
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The opening sentence reads:
Hogmanay (Scots: [ˌhɔɡməˈneː];[1] English: /ˌhɒɡməˈneɪ/ HOG-mə-NAY[2]) is the Scots word for the last day of the year and is synonymous with the celebration of the New Year (Gregorian calendar) in the Scottish manner.
But surely it is actually an English Language word but one now applied mainly, or perhaps only, to a generally Scottish festival. It can't be a specifically or exclusively Scottish dialect word since it was also a commonplace name in the north of England (see OED). Indeed the first ever recorded use of the word was in Yorkshire in England.
So might I suggest changing the opening sentence to read:
Hogmanay (Scots: [ˌhɔɡməˈneː];[1] English: /ˌhɒɡməˈneɪ/ HOG-mə-NAY[2]) is an historic northern English and Scottish name for the last day of the year. Today it is most commonly thought of as synonymous with the celebration of the New Year specifically in Scotland or in the Scottish manner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.223.89 ( talk) 15:58, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Well strictly speaking even if 'Hogmanay' describes something which only applies to Scotland it must still be a word in the English Language, like 'loch', since it's in the OED. And this is an English Language Wikipedia. We might then mean merely that it only applies to something uniquely Scottish and not in England, but is that even true? Perhaps some folk in the northern counties of England do still call New Year's Day Hogmanay in which case it isn't obsolete in England anyway. A tricky one I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.174.63 ( talk) 19:07, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Is Hogmanay related to Ogma, a Scottish and Irish god. hmm unproven but interesting since Ogma is thought to derive from cut, like cutting a string for the new year.
I doubt references exist but it is feasible that a god comes to be a celebration, look at Germanic Easter/ Eostre. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:30, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Akerbeltz:What about a Brythoneg origin, or through it or a descendant of it, is that feasible. Mostly likely it would be on a Strathclyde/Cumbria mixing. A /g/ is prominent enough in Welsh. They is a stopping point in that records of it would be next to non-existent. It could easily have been influenced by Anglo-Norse and or Irish in someways. Northern Irish and Scottish links are strong as well as a lot of England and Scotland land swapping. Chocolateediter ( talk) 17:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I would be nice if it a resurgence in Northern England occurred. It’s died off by Saxon-ise-ing, so sad it hasn’t yet. I hope hagman-heigh does, from North Yorkshire. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
"The first-foot is supposed to set the luck for the rest of the year." Still celebrate that, most traditions must still exist in someways round here. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I know it will not be proven unless evidence is found as the section implies, Just a thought. Ogmios, Oghma and Hogmanay are so close in form.-se ending in old Northern England reference is a possible link to a s ending in Ogmios or just Northern Subject Rule. While NSR could mean it was a celebration of Ogma/Ogmios. What else would be why an s(e) existed on it, suppose NSR(thought to be inherited from Brythonic) is common enough just to be Hogmanay’s celebration? Chocolateediter ( talk) 16:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
PS:1443 Hagnonayse West Riding (forgot spelling so had to re-look at article) Chocolateediter ( talk) 16:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh well atleast I had a shot and in future if evidence is found(unlikely) then this is always here as a speculative theory. The -s was earlier, is they other spellings with -s or was it a standalone. Chocolateediter ( talk) 13:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
As far as I know, there is no actual historical evidence linking Scottish Hogmanay to any pre-Christian celebration whatsoever. It is all totally speculative, as is the supposed link between holding "Yule" and the 12 days of Christmas. In his book "The Stations of the Sun", Professor Hutton puts the origins of Hogmanay celebrations firmly down to the suppression of Christmas by puritanical protestants. ( Dmottram ( talk) 12:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC))
The Gregorian calendar is mentioned twice near the top of the article, which seems to suggest that it particularly important. The only credible alternative is the Julian calendar, which Scotland used until the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 (Westminster). As written, the text would suggest that Hogmanay never happened before 1752, which I doubt is intended? If it is just a disambig, then a footnote is plenty. Any objections to my doing that?
Does anyone have any material about response to the 1752 calendar change in Scotland? Did nobody object to New Year's Eve suddenly moving from 21 days after the solstice to just ten? The Calendar Act article has material on English complaints about Christmas being moved but nothing about any Scottish reaction.
Calendar (New Style) Act 1750#Scotland has material on the Order in Council of 1599 by which Scotland changed its New Year's Day from 25 March to 1 January. Does anything need adding?
Hidden agenda: I have been working to improve the Calendar Act article and this is a loose end that it would be nice to tie in. So suggestions will be very welcome. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 08:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
it'd be good to write something about the Biggar bonfire: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q124069141 RedAuburn ( talk) 20:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)
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So, like how do you pronounce this word? - Anon reader —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.180.172.163 ( talk • contribs) 02:11, 1 January 2005
Is it important for the first foot to cross a threshold in the new year be a right foot (i.e. not a left one)? Doops | talk 20:57, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
The first foot is a person not a foot, so the question doesn't really make sense. The important thing about the person is not which foot they use to cross the threshold but whether they are tall, dark, rich, handsome, male and bearing the appropriate gifts (score one luck point for each of the foregoing that applies to your first foot, <grin>). -- Derek Ross | Talk 02:06, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Not that I know of. That is why the article says However none of these is more than guesswork. There is little or no evidence for any of the suggested etymologies including the "hug-me-now" one. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:44, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Where I live in Scotland it depends who says Hogmanay - there are a group who seem intent in pronouncing "O" as "U" whilst a lot of the people still pronounce the "O" as "O". It seems the group are of the same literacy level as the very plum in the mouth women who if they cannot find their VOLVO car will ask even complete strangers if they have seen the "VULVA" and usually they tend to be rather pretty ugly! The same women also don't fly in an aeroplane or aircraft they board an "Aee ru plarn." They seem to think it sound educated - it doesn't it marks them as ignorant and are of the same ilk that start a sentence with "So what we have here is ...," or "It's kind of like raining ... and I'm kind of getting wet ..." The importation of USA film "star" ignorance in to the language is deplorable. As far as I am concerned I shall continue to pronounce the word HOG MAH NAY. A TRUE SCOT from Balmedie - Trump where was your forebears at Culloden - probably alongside Salmond's hiding in the furthest bothy! Mine were alongside the Prince on his right side! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.2.245.95 ( talk) 11:03, 9 November 2015 (UTC)
so, how does one wish someone else a happy hogmanay? What is commonly said - what do cards say, etc? "Happy Hogmanay?" "Merry Hogmanay?"
What are the traditional and common greetings?
Not sure about traditional in Scotland, but my Grandfather used to follow the same ritual every Hogmanay. The first footer always brings a small bag of salt, a small piece of coal and a bottle of whiskey, and knocks on the door on the stroke of midnight. When I was a young lad, the first footer was also accompanied by a piper who would play "My Home" or some other good tune! The first footer would greet the home owner with something like:
Good sir, I bring you salt to salt your meat, and I bring you coal to keep your fire lit. From me and mine, to you an yours Happy New year, and lang may your lum reak! The first footer then hands over the salt and coal.
The home owner then responds with something like, and a happy new year to you and yours. Will you share a dram before joining us?
At this point, a nip of scotch is shared from their respective bottles, with the toast being (I don't know the spelling so I will write it phoenetically) slanjee va!
The the first footer and the home owner enter the house together and everyone in the houselhold takes a wee dram from both bottles. In our houselhold, it didn't matter if you were 5 or 50, you still got a nip.
We carry on the tradition to this day!
She also said it's roots went right back to Pagan worship of "Molec", to whom the Pagans sacrificed their childred in the fire.
there's a custom of writing your name on a stone and putting it in the fire. Any stone not in the fire or broken will indicate the death of the owner. 93.233.35.213 ( talk) 10:17, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
In answer to the original question, I've never heard 'Happy Hogmanay' or any variation of that used in Scotland. As Mr Purple says, people wish each other 'Happy New Year'; I'd add that I was told as a small child in no uncertain terms that it was something verging on bad luck to wish a Happy New Year before the bells (i.e. before midnight). If speaking to somebody you wouldn't be seeing at the turn of the year, I was taught that the done thing was to say 'have a good New Year when it comes'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.121.111.56 ( talk) 17:20, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
Houl oan a meenut. just put a cite needed about that Steak pie. While it sounds delectable, dindins on the last day for anyone that I know consists of the final Xmas remnants or the first set of new mince to arrive in the fridge once Teescos has reopened! AND..shouldn't it be a mutton pie? Brendandh 03:05, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
1st and 2nd are bank holidays in Scotland, not the 3rd.-- Brideshead 15:06, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Not strictly true I'm afraid, see the section of the article entitled Ne'er day which clarifies things. Fraslet 15:11, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't find an article entitled ne'er day, however the Bank Holiday page states that 1st and 2nd are holidays. -- Brideshead 17:57, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I was referring to the section of the Hogmanay article which is entitled Ne'erday.
Fraslet
17:59, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
If you ask most Scots nowadays how their Hogmanay was, the most common response seems to be "Oh, very quiet". It seems the first-footing custom is in danger of dying out. When I was a teenager the first-footing and parties seemed to last for days. What do others think, and maybe a paragragh on this subject would enhance the article. EdX20 21:14, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Whilst Hogmany is still a big thing in Scotland, the old traditions like first-footing etc. are becoming increasingly rare. I would warrant many Scottish children don't even know what first-footing is! 2.102.81.66 ( talk) 16:44, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Was this any more or less uncited and dubious than any of the others? Why single it out for deletion? 172.216.71.238 ( talk) 21:21, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
No, no more uncited, arguable if it's any more dubious. Uncited and dubious it is though, which is enough to ditch it. Was a new edit therefore highlighted as a change and very quick to undo. It doesn't mean I'm endorsing the rest of the article or indeed vast swathes of uncited text throughout Wikipedia. If you reckon it's credible and have a citation, by all means add it back. That whole section could do with in-text citations. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 23:12, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't want to quibble but old French is usually considered to have been replaced by early modern French around 1400 CE, long before the 16th century... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.220.98.159 ( talk) 16:10, 5 December 2014 (UTC)
I've never, ever heard the Spanish word aguinaldo cited as a possible origin. It should be removed in my opinion. 82.108.205.6 ( talk) 15:43, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
"It has become traditional for this to be sung in a circle of linked arms that are crossed over one another as the clock strikes midnight for New Year's Day." Hmm. Well yes and no. It has indeed become traditional, but properly, the arms shouldn\t be crossed until the last verse. Adding info to this effect. Tpacw ( talk) 09:40, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Can you explain why this is the proper way to do it and cite it please? Mutt Lunker ( talk) 14:20, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I would also agree, instinctively, but obviously that cuts no ice here. Was just pointing out that this kind of statement needs backed up. I reckon the Lancashire Evening Telegraph one is a good citation. Would be interesting to find more info on why arms are crossed in the last verse, when people started doing it, where they started doing it etc.. Mutt Lunker ( talk) 16:42, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Um, I think there was an indirect source on the Auld Lang Syne page, which mentioned the Queen crossing arms when it was sung at the millenium, and how this is 'correct practice'. I'll go and dig it up.
Tpacw (
talk)
19:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
Its very simple really "And there's a hand, my trusty fiere!' You give a hand to the next guy - 'And gie's a hand o' thine!' he passes his to you. They are then crossed. I should imagine it would be difficult to verify unless there is an anthropological text on it somewhere. We were crossing arms long before the millennium but how reliable is a report on a modern Queen as an indication of past custom? Tarzanlordofthejungle ( talk) 10:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
At one time at the end of the night, regardless if it was New Year or not at every dance, wedding or any sort of party, Auld Lang Syne was sung. The arms were never crossed till the verse " and gies the hand o' thine". Auld Lang Syne sung is very rarely sung now at the end of celebrations and is normally reserved for Hogmanay.. As far as I am concerned, there is no argument. The arms are not crossed till the noted verse and never before. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.35.103 ( talk) 01:10, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
The way I've always done it: Hold hands for first verse/chorus, not crossed, but swinging hand in and out. Second verse - cross hands. Second chorus - hands still crossed, everyone charges into the middle of the room on first line, out again on second, in again on third. Is this common? 86.169.17.77 ( talk) 20:33, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
I found this 1954 cookbook which was compiled by a Miss F. Marian McNeille who (according to the text) published a work on Scottish folk-lore entitled " The Silver Bough".
It has a couple pages that discuss old Hogmanay traditions, and there are some "traditional" recipes for "Hogmanay fare" and maybe be worth looking at for material. On the other hand its suitability as a reference is up for debate.
Not being fluent in Scottish phrases I am afraid I don't understand all of the words but maybe someone here does. For example; "...the chappin' o' the Twal'..." is completely lost on me but my instinct says it ought to be mentioned in this article or the first-foot article. 66.102.205.172 ( talk) 15:46, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Brideshead's edit on 31st Dec 09 states that Stonehaven is in Aberdeenshire because "Kincardineshire hasn't existed for years". I would challenge that. Whilst it is true that the local government region of Kincardineshire no longer exists, the county itself quite definately does, and Stonehaven is quite definately in it. For instance, see the location information given by Google maps for Stonehaven Firechucker ( talk) 14:04, 14 January 2010 (UTC)
Kincardineshire does still exist as a Lord Lieutenancy area but it is more common to say Stonehaven is within Aberdeenshire than Kincardineshire as Kincardineshire is purely ceremonial. Although from my experience from living nearby in Banchory post addressed as Kincardineshire still reached us. People still use it but in all the time I lived in Banchory I never used the term Kincardineshire. Micropot ( talk) 23:11, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
Shouln't theacht meán oíche" be spelt theacht mean oíche - the fada over the a seems wrong, but I'm not fluent enough to be certain. Autarch ( talk) 20:13, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
The text says of Ne'erday "When Ne'erday falls on a Sunday, 3 January becomes an additional public holiday in Scotland" but nowhere does it say when Ne'erday is normally. i am guessing that it is 2 Jan but it does not say
Jpff ( talk) 11:13, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Tall dark men? Could this be ambiguous? Should it be changed to "tall, dark-haired men" or, and here I'm going by a childhood memory, can the term 'dark' also cover their clothing? I seem to remember a reference to coalmen (i.e. coal merchants or miners) fitting the bill, but that may have been an adult joke at my expense! Kim Traynor ( talk) 13:44, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
In her memoir Voices in the Street, Growing up in Dundee (2006) Maureen Reynolds writes, "It was eight o'clock on Hogmanay, the last night of 1941, and we were all busy cleaning the house. This annual tradition had to be tackled before the start of a new year." She goes on to describe in some detail a thorough cleaning of the house with the whole family involved. Unfortunately, she does not state whether this was just a family tradition, or was also being done in other households. I assume most families would have cleaned up their houses in advance of receiving first-footing visitors, but I wonder if anyone can help confirm that this was a widespread ritual? If we receive several comments confirming it was geographically widespread, it would be worth adding to the article under the Customs section heading. Kim Traynor ( talk) 13:57, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
The opening and closing of doors used to be practiced in Edinburgh at least till the 1970's. I seem to remember the front doors were opened to let the new year in and the back doors opened to let the old year out. Can't remember the exact format but remember this being practiced. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.4.35.103 ( talk) 01:03, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
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@ Zacwill: could you provide a little context for this edit? It looks like you removed some content and wikilinks without explaining why. Ibadibam ( talk) 01:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
I really question the need for any pronunciation guide at all. What is the evidence that any competent English speaker finds the word difficult to pronounce? John ( talk) 14:25, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
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The opening sentence reads:
Hogmanay (Scots: [ˌhɔɡməˈneː];[1] English: /ˌhɒɡməˈneɪ/ HOG-mə-NAY[2]) is the Scots word for the last day of the year and is synonymous with the celebration of the New Year (Gregorian calendar) in the Scottish manner.
But surely it is actually an English Language word but one now applied mainly, or perhaps only, to a generally Scottish festival. It can't be a specifically or exclusively Scottish dialect word since it was also a commonplace name in the north of England (see OED). Indeed the first ever recorded use of the word was in Yorkshire in England.
So might I suggest changing the opening sentence to read:
Hogmanay (Scots: [ˌhɔɡməˈneː];[1] English: /ˌhɒɡməˈneɪ/ HOG-mə-NAY[2]) is an historic northern English and Scottish name for the last day of the year. Today it is most commonly thought of as synonymous with the celebration of the New Year specifically in Scotland or in the Scottish manner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.210.223.89 ( talk) 15:58, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
Well strictly speaking even if 'Hogmanay' describes something which only applies to Scotland it must still be a word in the English Language, like 'loch', since it's in the OED. And this is an English Language Wikipedia. We might then mean merely that it only applies to something uniquely Scottish and not in England, but is that even true? Perhaps some folk in the northern counties of England do still call New Year's Day Hogmanay in which case it isn't obsolete in England anyway. A tricky one I think. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.108.174.63 ( talk) 19:07, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
Is Hogmanay related to Ogma, a Scottish and Irish god. hmm unproven but interesting since Ogma is thought to derive from cut, like cutting a string for the new year.
I doubt references exist but it is feasible that a god comes to be a celebration, look at Germanic Easter/ Eostre. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:30, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Akerbeltz:What about a Brythoneg origin, or through it or a descendant of it, is that feasible. Mostly likely it would be on a Strathclyde/Cumbria mixing. A /g/ is prominent enough in Welsh. They is a stopping point in that records of it would be next to non-existent. It could easily have been influenced by Anglo-Norse and or Irish in someways. Northern Irish and Scottish links are strong as well as a lot of England and Scotland land swapping. Chocolateediter ( talk) 17:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I would be nice if it a resurgence in Northern England occurred. It’s died off by Saxon-ise-ing, so sad it hasn’t yet. I hope hagman-heigh does, from North Yorkshire. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:11, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
"The first-foot is supposed to set the luck for the rest of the year." Still celebrate that, most traditions must still exist in someways round here. Chocolateediter ( talk) 18:25, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
I know it will not be proven unless evidence is found as the section implies, Just a thought. Ogmios, Oghma and Hogmanay are so close in form.-se ending in old Northern England reference is a possible link to a s ending in Ogmios or just Northern Subject Rule. While NSR could mean it was a celebration of Ogma/Ogmios. What else would be why an s(e) existed on it, suppose NSR(thought to be inherited from Brythonic) is common enough just to be Hogmanay’s celebration? Chocolateediter ( talk) 16:36, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
PS:1443 Hagnonayse West Riding (forgot spelling so had to re-look at article) Chocolateediter ( talk) 16:42, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
Oh well atleast I had a shot and in future if evidence is found(unlikely) then this is always here as a speculative theory. The -s was earlier, is they other spellings with -s or was it a standalone. Chocolateediter ( talk) 13:44, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
As far as I know, there is no actual historical evidence linking Scottish Hogmanay to any pre-Christian celebration whatsoever. It is all totally speculative, as is the supposed link between holding "Yule" and the 12 days of Christmas. In his book "The Stations of the Sun", Professor Hutton puts the origins of Hogmanay celebrations firmly down to the suppression of Christmas by puritanical protestants. ( Dmottram ( talk) 12:16, 23 November 2020 (UTC))
The Gregorian calendar is mentioned twice near the top of the article, which seems to suggest that it particularly important. The only credible alternative is the Julian calendar, which Scotland used until the Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 (Westminster). As written, the text would suggest that Hogmanay never happened before 1752, which I doubt is intended? If it is just a disambig, then a footnote is plenty. Any objections to my doing that?
Does anyone have any material about response to the 1752 calendar change in Scotland? Did nobody object to New Year's Eve suddenly moving from 21 days after the solstice to just ten? The Calendar Act article has material on English complaints about Christmas being moved but nothing about any Scottish reaction.
Calendar (New Style) Act 1750#Scotland has material on the Order in Council of 1599 by which Scotland changed its New Year's Day from 25 March to 1 January. Does anything need adding?
Hidden agenda: I have been working to improve the Calendar Act article and this is a loose end that it would be nice to tie in. So suggestions will be very welcome. -- John Maynard Friedman ( talk) 08:54, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
it'd be good to write something about the Biggar bonfire: https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q124069141 RedAuburn ( talk) 20:07, 1 January 2024 (UTC)