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I find this to be perhaps the most legit article on such a practice ever. absolutely no reason for speedy deletion. is it distasteful? yes. but how much of wikipedia and urbandictionary is? it does not change the fact that this is an active pastime for degenerates. should we censor knowledge of it though? no. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.126.160.60 ( talk • contribs) .
I agree with the above -- if you take this page down the terrorists will have won. JJG —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.36.123.162 ( talk • contribs) .
I also agree with the first poster. This article is legit and is an extension of knowledge. Why delete such an article if it pertains to a legitimate pursuit of knowledge? 130.160.232.43 21:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I feel similarly. Just because this page has been posted on collegehumor.com and is getting constant vandalism is no reason to delete it. I do feel it doesn't hold up to wiki standards, though, on issues such as the "examples" given. Archtemplar 22:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an urban dictionary. It's tagged for deletion because it's unsourced. OhNo itsJamie Talk 23:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
True, examples are going to be personal and therefore hard to come by (as we usually hope all sexual encounters are), but links are now included to hogging related websites with stories and reasoning for such activities. This article should be untagged for deletion as of now. Calbearspolo 18:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC) Calbearspolo
It is absolutely pathetic that a once-solid article on this topic not only has been taken down but has been removed from the history section as well. That is shameful, irrational, indefensible, fearful censorship on the part of people whose agenda has less to do with informative articles appearing on Wikipedia and more to do with their own personal preferences and dislikes. For shame.
This article has been previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hogging. I've tagged it for speedy deletion. If this article is created again in the future, speedy deletion will be appropriate. Brian G. Crawford 02:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Why should the article be deleted? It refers to something real. Why should it be deleted when Wikipedia is full of articles about minor Star Trek characters and other things that are fictional with no impact on anyone's lives and of far less relevance than this topic?
I have recreated this article as a completely different article from what was previously here [1]. Please note the numerous sources and mentions in mainstream and academic publications, and try to keep this article clean. -- badlydrawnjeff ( WP:MEMES?) 04:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure this article qualifies as well-sourced. I have read the sources provided -- they are few in number, the academic reference is actually based ON the original 2003 MSM article, and the original article is based solely on interview, and on second- and third-hand storytelling (which the article's author herself admits is questionable.) I question the notability of this article. Specifically because, as the general notability guideline states: "Wikipedia is not a news source: it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute evidence of sufficient notability." 99.231.184.87 ( talk) 23:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone came along and edited out categories "Intimate relationships" and "Hobbies". Keep your biases and prejudices to yourself. Hogging is an intimate relationship. You may disapprove of it but it is still an intimate relationship and your dislike is not reason to erase an appropriate category. Hogging is also a hobby to those who do it and your dislike for that pastime is not a decent reason to edit out that category.
Likewise your edit of those categories to "Sexism" and "Abuse" are inappropriate. Hogging is not sexist; it involves discrimination based on obesity, not on gender. Likewise it is not abuse; both participants are willing.
Keep the article NPOV and keep your own angry biases out of it.
(unindent) Advertising and telemarketing are considered abuse by some. The reason that hogging is more easily classified as such is that unlike either of these two, it is an immediate interpersonal interaction. From this article:
This doesn't sound like abuse to you? (Abuse can be consensual if the person hates themself.) Joie de Vivre T 02:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I've hogged 8) D-Fluff has had E-Nuff 18:22, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I have added refimprove and notability tags to the article for reasons stated below, questioning the notability of the subject itself, and the reliability of the article's sources.
One of the sources (the book Get Off your Butt, America!) is self-published, which is not considered acceptable for verifiability: "Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable." I am removing it from the references for this reason.
Similarly, the article from pointsincase.com (a humour/entertainment website consisting of opinion pieces) does not meet the verifiability standard, because, again quoting from Wikipedia's policy, it is a questionable source: "Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Such sources include websites and publications that express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, are promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions. Questionable sources should only be used in articles about themselves." (Emphasis mine.)
Within the Wikipedia article, there is a reference for "An unofficial study by Dr. Judith A. Sanders of the California State Polytechnic University Communications Department in Pomona" which has no in-line citation, and which, if none is provided, I will delete, as it is totally unsubstatiated. I even checked Google Scholar briefly myself to see if I could find the reference by that author, but came up empty-handed.
The paper from Deviant Behavior is from a reliable source, however, it is based mainly on the Cleve Scene article by Sarah Fenske and may not constitute notability. Indeed, because it is a qualitative research and not quantitative research, it cannot demonstrate the prevalence of this practice, which is one factor that would lend proper notability. If this is an isolated practice, or one whose reports cannot be proven to be more than urban legend, then one qualitative paper based on interviews does not establish the practice as notable or even as existing. The Wikipedia notability general notability guideline states that "it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute evidence of sufficient notability."
What we really have here is a topic described in one "human interest" article, based entirely on interviews of people who claimed to indulge in the practice, and then subsequent articles and references (some questionable, some reliable) were based on that single article. Sarah Fenske herself, in that article, writes: "One universal truth: The boldest hogging stories always happened to someone else. The more savage the act, the better the chance that the guy telling the story didn't do it -- his buddy did. And the buddy, just as frequently, is impossible to track down." She also briefly touches on the impossibility of finding 'victims' of the practice -- either because they were unaware, or simply don't exist. She says, in the article, "It's temping to attribute all hogging to braggadocio and the fine art of BS. Indeed, even some guys who've hogged insist that it's no more than a way to justify drunken actions the morning after."
The bottom line is, simply because multiple references sprung up after one article was published, does not mean this practice is verifiable, even if it does exist. And Wikipedia states that "the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiability" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." Therefore, even if the practice does exist, it does not merit inclusion in Wikipedia unless it can be verified by reliable sources. I don't think we've demonstrated that here in the article.
I myself thought this was a legitimate phenomenon after reading the Fenske article two years ago, mainly because I did not look any further than that article. When I found this Wikipedia page and read the sources listed, and hunted for more sources, I realized that none of it was verifiable, and all of it gives off a strong odour of urban legend. Furthermore, even if it could be considered verifiable based on the Fenske article and the Deviant Behavior paper, I question whether these are enough to establish notability.
This article was voted for deletion, and then recreated two years ago, and doesn't appear to have improved since then. If more reliable sources cannot be added, I would propose this article for deletion again. Peggynature ( talk) 00:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
You won't find such rubbish in a reference encyclopaedia.
109.150.239.76 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
If this is going to be a legitimate Wikipedia article, we need better sources. I am starting to expand the article using the sources referenced here. I also removed Get Off Your Butt, America!, because that is not a reliable source. -- Iamozy ( talk) 01:44, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Explain the practice, not the reasoning behind it. Especially not reasoning as explained by opinion pieces and biased theses. predcon ( talk) 12:41, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I find this to be perhaps the most legit article on such a practice ever. absolutely no reason for speedy deletion. is it distasteful? yes. but how much of wikipedia and urbandictionary is? it does not change the fact that this is an active pastime for degenerates. should we censor knowledge of it though? no. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 130.126.160.60 ( talk • contribs) .
I agree with the above -- if you take this page down the terrorists will have won. JJG —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.36.123.162 ( talk • contribs) .
I also agree with the first poster. This article is legit and is an extension of knowledge. Why delete such an article if it pertains to a legitimate pursuit of knowledge? 130.160.232.43 21:55, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I feel similarly. Just because this page has been posted on collegehumor.com and is getting constant vandalism is no reason to delete it. I do feel it doesn't hold up to wiki standards, though, on issues such as the "examples" given. Archtemplar 22:08, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is not an urban dictionary. It's tagged for deletion because it's unsourced. OhNo itsJamie Talk 23:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
True, examples are going to be personal and therefore hard to come by (as we usually hope all sexual encounters are), but links are now included to hogging related websites with stories and reasoning for such activities. This article should be untagged for deletion as of now. Calbearspolo 18:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC) Calbearspolo
It is absolutely pathetic that a once-solid article on this topic not only has been taken down but has been removed from the history section as well. That is shameful, irrational, indefensible, fearful censorship on the part of people whose agenda has less to do with informative articles appearing on Wikipedia and more to do with their own personal preferences and dislikes. For shame.
This article has been previously deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hogging. I've tagged it for speedy deletion. If this article is created again in the future, speedy deletion will be appropriate. Brian G. Crawford 02:21, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
Why should the article be deleted? It refers to something real. Why should it be deleted when Wikipedia is full of articles about minor Star Trek characters and other things that are fictional with no impact on anyone's lives and of far less relevance than this topic?
I have recreated this article as a completely different article from what was previously here [1]. Please note the numerous sources and mentions in mainstream and academic publications, and try to keep this article clean. -- badlydrawnjeff ( WP:MEMES?) 04:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure this article qualifies as well-sourced. I have read the sources provided -- they are few in number, the academic reference is actually based ON the original 2003 MSM article, and the original article is based solely on interview, and on second- and third-hand storytelling (which the article's author herself admits is questionable.) I question the notability of this article. Specifically because, as the general notability guideline states: "Wikipedia is not a news source: it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute evidence of sufficient notability." 99.231.184.87 ( talk) 23:33, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
Someone came along and edited out categories "Intimate relationships" and "Hobbies". Keep your biases and prejudices to yourself. Hogging is an intimate relationship. You may disapprove of it but it is still an intimate relationship and your dislike is not reason to erase an appropriate category. Hogging is also a hobby to those who do it and your dislike for that pastime is not a decent reason to edit out that category.
Likewise your edit of those categories to "Sexism" and "Abuse" are inappropriate. Hogging is not sexist; it involves discrimination based on obesity, not on gender. Likewise it is not abuse; both participants are willing.
Keep the article NPOV and keep your own angry biases out of it.
(unindent) Advertising and telemarketing are considered abuse by some. The reason that hogging is more easily classified as such is that unlike either of these two, it is an immediate interpersonal interaction. From this article:
This doesn't sound like abuse to you? (Abuse can be consensual if the person hates themself.) Joie de Vivre T 02:07, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I've hogged 8) D-Fluff has had E-Nuff 18:22, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
I have added refimprove and notability tags to the article for reasons stated below, questioning the notability of the subject itself, and the reliability of the article's sources.
One of the sources (the book Get Off your Butt, America!) is self-published, which is not considered acceptable for verifiability: "Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, newsletters, personal websites, open wikis, blogs, forum postings, and similar sources are largely not acceptable." I am removing it from the references for this reason.
Similarly, the article from pointsincase.com (a humour/entertainment website consisting of opinion pieces) does not meet the verifiability standard, because, again quoting from Wikipedia's policy, it is a questionable source: "Questionable sources are those with a poor reputation for fact-checking. Such sources include websites and publications that express views that are widely acknowledged as extremist, are promotional in nature, or rely heavily on rumors and personal opinions. Questionable sources should only be used in articles about themselves." (Emphasis mine.)
Within the Wikipedia article, there is a reference for "An unofficial study by Dr. Judith A. Sanders of the California State Polytechnic University Communications Department in Pomona" which has no in-line citation, and which, if none is provided, I will delete, as it is totally unsubstatiated. I even checked Google Scholar briefly myself to see if I could find the reference by that author, but came up empty-handed.
The paper from Deviant Behavior is from a reliable source, however, it is based mainly on the Cleve Scene article by Sarah Fenske and may not constitute notability. Indeed, because it is a qualitative research and not quantitative research, it cannot demonstrate the prevalence of this practice, which is one factor that would lend proper notability. If this is an isolated practice, or one whose reports cannot be proven to be more than urban legend, then one qualitative paper based on interviews does not establish the practice as notable or even as existing. The Wikipedia notability general notability guideline states that "it takes more than just a short burst of news reports about a single event or topic to constitute evidence of sufficient notability."
What we really have here is a topic described in one "human interest" article, based entirely on interviews of people who claimed to indulge in the practice, and then subsequent articles and references (some questionable, some reliable) were based on that single article. Sarah Fenske herself, in that article, writes: "One universal truth: The boldest hogging stories always happened to someone else. The more savage the act, the better the chance that the guy telling the story didn't do it -- his buddy did. And the buddy, just as frequently, is impossible to track down." She also briefly touches on the impossibility of finding 'victims' of the practice -- either because they were unaware, or simply don't exist. She says, in the article, "It's temping to attribute all hogging to braggadocio and the fine art of BS. Indeed, even some guys who've hogged insist that it's no more than a way to justify drunken actions the morning after."
The bottom line is, simply because multiple references sprung up after one article was published, does not mean this practice is verifiable, even if it does exist. And Wikipedia states that "the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiability" in this context means that readers should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source." Therefore, even if the practice does exist, it does not merit inclusion in Wikipedia unless it can be verified by reliable sources. I don't think we've demonstrated that here in the article.
I myself thought this was a legitimate phenomenon after reading the Fenske article two years ago, mainly because I did not look any further than that article. When I found this Wikipedia page and read the sources listed, and hunted for more sources, I realized that none of it was verifiable, and all of it gives off a strong odour of urban legend. Furthermore, even if it could be considered verifiable based on the Fenske article and the Deviant Behavior paper, I question whether these are enough to establish notability.
This article was voted for deletion, and then recreated two years ago, and doesn't appear to have improved since then. If more reliable sources cannot be added, I would propose this article for deletion again. Peggynature ( talk) 00:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
You won't find such rubbish in a reference encyclopaedia.
109.150.239.76 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:44, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
If this is going to be a legitimate Wikipedia article, we need better sources. I am starting to expand the article using the sources referenced here. I also removed Get Off Your Butt, America!, because that is not a reliable source. -- Iamozy ( talk) 01:44, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
Explain the practice, not the reasoning behind it. Especially not reasoning as explained by opinion pieces and biased theses. predcon ( talk) 12:41, 4 June 2016 (UTC)