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It seems to me that there are several fundamental reasons for opposing this patent.
First, but not least, the fiduciary responsibility that universities have toward the taxpayers and private donors who provide their funding, and to the university researchers who actually did develop innovative education technology. As it stands, our institutions are faced with the prospect of paying royalties to a third party for their own inventions. Regardless of how one feels about software patents (and I am personally opposed to them), I hope we can all agree that if royalties are due, they should be paid to those who actually invented the technology, not to those who simply managed to bulldoze a patent examiner.
Second, scholarly responsibilities. Academics have a strong obligation to provide credit where due. Allowing Bb to claim "inventions" that were in fact the work of others is utterly inconsistent with that responsibility. This work has been going on for almost five decades; Blackboard's claim to have "invented" it all in the late 90s is repugnant. One must also consider the chilling effects on future research. If educational technology researchers must work under fear of lawsuits, it's a near-certainty that research and innovation will suffer.
Third, pedagogic responsibility. Academia is ethically bound to provide education of the highest possible quality. Does anyone believe that the current systems represent perfection? Or that this patent won't create a chilling effect on future research aimed at improving on-line education?
Most universities have IP lawyers on staff (or on retainer) to handle the genuine inventions of university researchers:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/speeches/05-18.htm
I see several institutions on that list that are well-represented in the lists of prior art that have been compiled. I urge those institutions, in particular, to have their legal staffs prepare amicus briefs in Blackboard v. Desire2Learn.
Several have noted that Bb management is backpedaling on their outrageous claims, using spin-speak with null semantic content (marketroid phrases such as "enterprise" are utterly meaningless in this context). I suggest that, in addition to the amicus briefs, the university IP staff demand a detailed explanation of what, if anything, Blackboard actually invented, and how these claimed inventions can be distinguished from the dozens of examples of prior art that have been cited. Again, this should be done for fiduciary reasons if nothing else. Given the present undefined nature of Blackboard's claims, how can a university guarantee that it won't inadvertently infringe the patent? Are we expected to get approval from Blackboard's legal staff before doing any kind of on-line teaching? Or should we merely forge ahead and wait to see if Blackboard sues? Neither prospect seems appealing. -- G. Bolstrood (who uses "another brand" for teaching, doesn't want to get sued, and, most of all, doesn't want to see his students forced to use the crapfest that Blackboard calls a course management system).
Prior art Work form NJIT efforts (Virtual Classroom) and realated work at OEP in 1971-1973, now on the web via the NJIT library. the items below have not been in electronic form before.
Those of you following the blackboard patent review might like to see some the documents now on this website. they were not in electronic format till now. they include early EIES user manuals and even manual from teh EMISARI system from the Office of the Emergency Preparedness (1971) that had roles and and similar concept in it.
http://www.library.njit.edu/cccc-materials/index.cfm
the njit library has started to put some of our old reports on the web and i asked them to put up first some of the user manuals which i think you will find clearly document things like single interface and multiple roles and linking of relevant materials. You can get the whole document from the above website.
what is there now is the following items and i have made a few quick comments under each title. If any one has looked at the prior art that blackboard submitted i would be curious to know if NJIT was included at all. I suspect not. Also i discovered a two page copy of the original trademark document for "virtual classroom" should i scan it and send it to you. (it is still held by njit)
Doc Title Date Author RR#13 Guide to the topics system Jan. 1981 Peter Johnson-Lenz, Trudy Johnson Lenz this was a system with roles for editor, indexer as well as the normal administrator roles and it linked relevant messages into a discussion thread. this was the user manual
RR#14 The evolution of a tailored communications structure : the topics system Jan. 1981 Peter Johnson-Lenz, Trudy Johnson Lenz more detail on the design
RR#25 Learning in a virtual classroom : volume 1 of a virtual classroom on EIES : final evaluation report 1988 Starr Roxanne Hiltz a major early evaluation report but did confirm that you could be a student in one conference and an instructor in another with only one sign on. also a single interface inside the class conference to link to any other material and other related conferences.
RR#26 Teaching in a virtual classroom : volume 2 of a virtual
classroom on EIES : final evaluation report 1988 Starr Roxanne Hiltz
discusses the methods of teaching and the software design to support those
methods
RR#29 Teaching lower level computer science courses via virtual classroom and video : course reports by faculty n.d. Starr Roxanne Hiltz, Fadi Deek, Maura Deek, James Geller, Ajaz Rana expeerineces by teachers in teaching
RR#30 Teaching upper level computer science courses via virtual classroom and video : course reports by faculty 1995 Starr Roxanne Hiltz, Julian M. Scher, Michael Bieber, Murray Turoff more experiences in teaching
TM-225 Conference system user's guide Assistant Director for Resource Analysis, Office of Emergency Preparedness the library put up the user guide for the system i designed in the us government in 1971 which was used through 1985 and for which quite a bit was published.
this had numerous roles that were created on the fly for people responsible for reporting different things and it also was integrated into the communications with a directory that showed what everyone role was and what they were responsible for. the concept of roles is very clear in this user manual and what constituted a role could be changed and each individual could have many roles, editing a notebook, reporting date, etc.
TM-230 EMISARI : A management information system designed to aid and involve people Feb. 1973 Assistant Director for Resource Analysis, Office of Emergency Preparedness this is an overview of the same system explaining the design. if roles were present in numerous applications over the years it is hardly something you should be able to patent as a general concept for one application.
there was a host of applications of roles under the title of hypertext systems as to could create and manipulate the different aspects of hypertext structure and this is well summarized ina thesis of one my students Usha Rao in the early 90's if you want ot get it from university microfilms. these were systems build at a great many R&D labs at places like xerox park and SRI. but emisari was the first except for the "delphi conference system" in 1969 which i build at OEP as well in 1969 and is published in the Journal of Technological Forecasting and Social Change.
the other paper i dont recall if i sent you was "party-line and discussion" computerized conferencing systems in 1972 at a conference which even included chat and IM in its capabilities. I was not sure how to break this up and stick in the main text but anyone who would like to should feel free to do so. There is also early work on the home pages of Roxanne Hiltz and Murray Turoff http://is.njit.edu/turoff and http://is.njit.edu/hiltz the above was the text of a message i sent to a number of people interested in prior art, Murray Turoff turoff@njit.edu
67.83.101.28 07:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
- 07:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 67.83.101.28
See copy of article at
http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=35542 . Note that the person who started this page, Michael Feldstein, did so partially in response to the
Blackboard patent. He has since blogged about it on
his blog. See also
http://www.WikiPatents.com/ .
This is a correction regarding one commercial computer assistead learning system. The article on the history of virtual learning environments mentions in the late 90's "The Learning Manager (TLM), from Campus America, Inc." I brought the predecessor of TLM to Laurentian University in 1991. It was then caled CML (Computer Managed Learning), later LMS (Learning nmanagement Systems) and had been in use in Alberta and Australia for some years at that point. The Company Website claims it has been operating for more than 20 years. The program was developed at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology (SAIT) beginning and it was spun off as a private company, later sold to Campus America, where it apparently failed and returned to the Learning Management Corporation.
In the late 1980's IBM had a system that ran under Novell called ICLASS for MS-DOS based, Token-Ring attached, stations in K-12. The system provided course/class management. The successor program for MS-Windows was called School Vista. I couldn't find many links, but here are a few:
http://www.gp.k12.mi.us/technology/mary/svinstructionalplans/instructionalplans.htm
www-03.ibm.com/industries/ca/en/education/k12/technical/updates/svyearend.pdf -- Igoldste 17:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
http://web.archive.org/web/20011204023947/http://dotlrn.mit.edu/
Note that for purposes of prior art against patent 6,988,138, the art must have been used or published one-year prior to the application (1-year grace period) on June 30, 2000. -- AriConsul 23:05, 3 August 2006 (PST)
The inclusion of these references does contribute to the case that states that patent 6,988,138 is obvious - see: person having ordinary skill in the art. -- Sambauers 09:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
From the article: "Serf was invented at the University of Delaware by Dr. Fred Hofstetter during the summer of 1997." Prior to Serf, Dr Hofstetter had developed a program called 'Podium'. www.udel.edu/podium
I added this is on behalf of one of the authors of the paper, who didn't have a wikipedia account. It's pre-web though, and whilst there are references to it online, we couldn't find a direct source to refer to. -- Straycat 20:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
The claims section of the patent only specifies client-server. A pre-web client-server system may count as prior art. Mfeldstein 17:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't have good information on this product, but here is a start Nils Peterson 15:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
(I think it was called PacerForum and ran on Mac. We tried it at the OU but decided in favour of FirstClass. I can find no files from the period but see http://www.pjb.co.uk/8/Exchange.htm. Paul Bacsich 12:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
There's just way too much detail on PLATO for this sort of a summary page. Some of this should be moved to PLATO's own entry, while some of it belongs in a separate, non-Wikipedia document that focuses specifically on the Blackboard prior art issue. I understand the motivation for this, but I think it goes to far in terms of turning this page from a list of historic events to specific legal documentation.
Is online testing relevant?
1995 Online multiple choice quiz script released by Eric Tachibana (Selena Sol) et al. of eXtropia, earliest download page available at the Internet Archive is from 1998 with various educational site examples [2].
1996 Quiztest inspired by Eric Tachibana (Selena Sol)'s multiple choice script above, an online testing system capable of displaying content such as a text prior to the test, was released by Kristina Pfaff-Harris.
I'm posting this because of my surprise and disgust at that appalling Blackboard patent and it's only an observation but I see mostly academic and recent stuff here, yet there was a plethora of what was called CBT (Computer Based Training) software around in the commercial mainframe computing world in the 1980s (and probably earlier) and the article looks grossly incomplete without a mention of it - to me at least. I couldn't dig up anything much from this newfangled Internet thing other than this http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n15_v8/ai_7206477 but it was a long time ago. -- Straycat 20:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Postings over the August 26-28 weekend period have broadened the scope of this article to include "distance learning". Interesting, because even without a software or algorithmic core, such approaches might have been, or might be, patentable "business methods" (in US anyway). But there are other broadenings of e-learning beyond the VLE/LMS core that are not included: quality, benchmarking, etc. Some other things creep in from time to time but not systematically, e.g. e-learning hardware. A quick scan of Wikipedia suggests that there are no "History of X" articles close to this article - and I detect no drive from elsewhere to create such. So how far should we extend this one? Presumably the working view is "keep broadening till lots of people shout"? Paul Bacsich 08:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep adding sourced encyclopedic unbiased content until it gets to the point that it makes sense to break pieces out of it. The current timeline might wind up becoming two sets of articles : one based on time (eg pre1980, 80s, 90s, 00s) and one based on conceptual subdivisions (eg benchmarking e-learning, e-learning algorithms, e-learning software suites, e-learning businesses, etc.). Then you can place a navigation box (template) at the top of each article pointing to your suite of articles. WAS 4.250 08:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Note that "Virtual Learning Environment" as defined in this article excludes the original NON-INTERACTIVE "distance learning" modality: pedagogic text. Text on paper was first primarily used to span distance in time, but eventually would typically span distance in space as easily via postal service, dispersed publication, et cetera. See Library. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.78.53.129 ( talk) 05:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC).
This article is way too long. Very few people would actually have the attention span to read this whole thing. In my opinion this article needs to be summarized with descriptions of only the most important events and also of visible trends; the more detailed information could be placed in seperate articles by decade. For info on how to do this, see WP:SIZE I'd do it myself but I don't know anything about the topic. Ahudson 18:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
The claims about the "average adult" having a "20 minute attention span" in the WP:SIZE page are dubious. No evidence is cited -- one reference is to a discussion of driving (not reading), the other two are to secondary sources that merely make this claim without providing any evidence. I think the article is fine as-is.
Breaking it into smaller articles would be fine, but please don't delete anything. I refer to this all the time. Computerhag 15:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I think refactoring the 1990s into a separate article is questionable, given that much of the discussion on prior art regarding Blackboard's patent happens to hinge on the 1999-2000 time frame. It was good, in that it halved the size of the article. However, this action could also be viewed as 'convenient'. I agree with Ahudson, that highlights should be covered in this article and details should be broken out into separate articles. Perhaps someone can start by bringing them in from the 1990's. -- Todd —Preceding comment was added at 18:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
There's no mention of the IUPUI effort that created ANGEL Learning, FYI. http://www.iupui.edu/news/angel2.htm I don't have time right now to incorporate it, but hope to come back to do it. Computerhag 15:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a new article called public participation in patent examination. I've put a link to this article as an example. Any others?-- Nowa 14:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I posted a link to this article over at "Just N examiner" blog. The topic of discussion was prior art searches. I asked the examiner community there if the format of this particular article was useful. Here is the response from a biotech patent examiner (posted with his permission):
So in short, nice work to all.
Any other patents or pending patent applications that we should develop histories for?-- Nowa 23:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Image:PLATO Davis 1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion about the nature of VLEs and LMS systems. It is increasingly being accepted that a Learning Management System is not a direct equivalent of a VLE but a larger system that could include a VLE and a host of other pieces of software or hardware. See discussion at the LMS entry. Gillorien ( talk) 16:54, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
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It seems to me that there are several fundamental reasons for opposing this patent.
First, but not least, the fiduciary responsibility that universities have toward the taxpayers and private donors who provide their funding, and to the university researchers who actually did develop innovative education technology. As it stands, our institutions are faced with the prospect of paying royalties to a third party for their own inventions. Regardless of how one feels about software patents (and I am personally opposed to them), I hope we can all agree that if royalties are due, they should be paid to those who actually invented the technology, not to those who simply managed to bulldoze a patent examiner.
Second, scholarly responsibilities. Academics have a strong obligation to provide credit where due. Allowing Bb to claim "inventions" that were in fact the work of others is utterly inconsistent with that responsibility. This work has been going on for almost five decades; Blackboard's claim to have "invented" it all in the late 90s is repugnant. One must also consider the chilling effects on future research. If educational technology researchers must work under fear of lawsuits, it's a near-certainty that research and innovation will suffer.
Third, pedagogic responsibility. Academia is ethically bound to provide education of the highest possible quality. Does anyone believe that the current systems represent perfection? Or that this patent won't create a chilling effect on future research aimed at improving on-line education?
Most universities have IP lawyers on staff (or on retainer) to handle the genuine inventions of university researchers:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/com/speeches/05-18.htm
I see several institutions on that list that are well-represented in the lists of prior art that have been compiled. I urge those institutions, in particular, to have their legal staffs prepare amicus briefs in Blackboard v. Desire2Learn.
Several have noted that Bb management is backpedaling on their outrageous claims, using spin-speak with null semantic content (marketroid phrases such as "enterprise" are utterly meaningless in this context). I suggest that, in addition to the amicus briefs, the university IP staff demand a detailed explanation of what, if anything, Blackboard actually invented, and how these claimed inventions can be distinguished from the dozens of examples of prior art that have been cited. Again, this should be done for fiduciary reasons if nothing else. Given the present undefined nature of Blackboard's claims, how can a university guarantee that it won't inadvertently infringe the patent? Are we expected to get approval from Blackboard's legal staff before doing any kind of on-line teaching? Or should we merely forge ahead and wait to see if Blackboard sues? Neither prospect seems appealing. -- G. Bolstrood (who uses "another brand" for teaching, doesn't want to get sued, and, most of all, doesn't want to see his students forced to use the crapfest that Blackboard calls a course management system).
Prior art Work form NJIT efforts (Virtual Classroom) and realated work at OEP in 1971-1973, now on the web via the NJIT library. the items below have not been in electronic form before.
Those of you following the blackboard patent review might like to see some the documents now on this website. they were not in electronic format till now. they include early EIES user manuals and even manual from teh EMISARI system from the Office of the Emergency Preparedness (1971) that had roles and and similar concept in it.
http://www.library.njit.edu/cccc-materials/index.cfm
the njit library has started to put some of our old reports on the web and i asked them to put up first some of the user manuals which i think you will find clearly document things like single interface and multiple roles and linking of relevant materials. You can get the whole document from the above website.
what is there now is the following items and i have made a few quick comments under each title. If any one has looked at the prior art that blackboard submitted i would be curious to know if NJIT was included at all. I suspect not. Also i discovered a two page copy of the original trademark document for "virtual classroom" should i scan it and send it to you. (it is still held by njit)
Doc Title Date Author RR#13 Guide to the topics system Jan. 1981 Peter Johnson-Lenz, Trudy Johnson Lenz this was a system with roles for editor, indexer as well as the normal administrator roles and it linked relevant messages into a discussion thread. this was the user manual
RR#14 The evolution of a tailored communications structure : the topics system Jan. 1981 Peter Johnson-Lenz, Trudy Johnson Lenz more detail on the design
RR#25 Learning in a virtual classroom : volume 1 of a virtual classroom on EIES : final evaluation report 1988 Starr Roxanne Hiltz a major early evaluation report but did confirm that you could be a student in one conference and an instructor in another with only one sign on. also a single interface inside the class conference to link to any other material and other related conferences.
RR#26 Teaching in a virtual classroom : volume 2 of a virtual
classroom on EIES : final evaluation report 1988 Starr Roxanne Hiltz
discusses the methods of teaching and the software design to support those
methods
RR#29 Teaching lower level computer science courses via virtual classroom and video : course reports by faculty n.d. Starr Roxanne Hiltz, Fadi Deek, Maura Deek, James Geller, Ajaz Rana expeerineces by teachers in teaching
RR#30 Teaching upper level computer science courses via virtual classroom and video : course reports by faculty 1995 Starr Roxanne Hiltz, Julian M. Scher, Michael Bieber, Murray Turoff more experiences in teaching
TM-225 Conference system user's guide Assistant Director for Resource Analysis, Office of Emergency Preparedness the library put up the user guide for the system i designed in the us government in 1971 which was used through 1985 and for which quite a bit was published.
this had numerous roles that were created on the fly for people responsible for reporting different things and it also was integrated into the communications with a directory that showed what everyone role was and what they were responsible for. the concept of roles is very clear in this user manual and what constituted a role could be changed and each individual could have many roles, editing a notebook, reporting date, etc.
TM-230 EMISARI : A management information system designed to aid and involve people Feb. 1973 Assistant Director for Resource Analysis, Office of Emergency Preparedness this is an overview of the same system explaining the design. if roles were present in numerous applications over the years it is hardly something you should be able to patent as a general concept for one application.
there was a host of applications of roles under the title of hypertext systems as to could create and manipulate the different aspects of hypertext structure and this is well summarized ina thesis of one my students Usha Rao in the early 90's if you want ot get it from university microfilms. these were systems build at a great many R&D labs at places like xerox park and SRI. but emisari was the first except for the "delphi conference system" in 1969 which i build at OEP as well in 1969 and is published in the Journal of Technological Forecasting and Social Change.
the other paper i dont recall if i sent you was "party-line and discussion" computerized conferencing systems in 1972 at a conference which even included chat and IM in its capabilities. I was not sure how to break this up and stick in the main text but anyone who would like to should feel free to do so. There is also early work on the home pages of Roxanne Hiltz and Murray Turoff http://is.njit.edu/turoff and http://is.njit.edu/hiltz the above was the text of a message i sent to a number of people interested in prior art, Murray Turoff turoff@njit.edu
67.83.101.28 07:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
- 07:51, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 67.83.101.28
See copy of article at
http://www.downes.ca/cgi-bin/page.cgi?post=35542 . Note that the person who started this page, Michael Feldstein, did so partially in response to the
Blackboard patent. He has since blogged about it on
his blog. See also
http://www.WikiPatents.com/ .
This is a correction regarding one commercial computer assistead learning system. The article on the history of virtual learning environments mentions in the late 90's "The Learning Manager (TLM), from Campus America, Inc." I brought the predecessor of TLM to Laurentian University in 1991. It was then caled CML (Computer Managed Learning), later LMS (Learning nmanagement Systems) and had been in use in Alberta and Australia for some years at that point. The Company Website claims it has been operating for more than 20 years. The program was developed at the Southern Alberta Institute of Technology (SAIT) beginning and it was spun off as a private company, later sold to Campus America, where it apparently failed and returned to the Learning Management Corporation.
In the late 1980's IBM had a system that ran under Novell called ICLASS for MS-DOS based, Token-Ring attached, stations in K-12. The system provided course/class management. The successor program for MS-Windows was called School Vista. I couldn't find many links, but here are a few:
http://www.gp.k12.mi.us/technology/mary/svinstructionalplans/instructionalplans.htm
www-03.ibm.com/industries/ca/en/education/k12/technical/updates/svyearend.pdf -- Igoldste 17:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
http://web.archive.org/web/20011204023947/http://dotlrn.mit.edu/
Note that for purposes of prior art against patent 6,988,138, the art must have been used or published one-year prior to the application (1-year grace period) on June 30, 2000. -- AriConsul 23:05, 3 August 2006 (PST)
The inclusion of these references does contribute to the case that states that patent 6,988,138 is obvious - see: person having ordinary skill in the art. -- Sambauers 09:09, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
From the article: "Serf was invented at the University of Delaware by Dr. Fred Hofstetter during the summer of 1997." Prior to Serf, Dr Hofstetter had developed a program called 'Podium'. www.udel.edu/podium
I added this is on behalf of one of the authors of the paper, who didn't have a wikipedia account. It's pre-web though, and whilst there are references to it online, we couldn't find a direct source to refer to. -- Straycat 20:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
The claims section of the patent only specifies client-server. A pre-web client-server system may count as prior art. Mfeldstein 17:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I don't have good information on this product, but here is a start Nils Peterson 15:15, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
(I think it was called PacerForum and ran on Mac. We tried it at the OU but decided in favour of FirstClass. I can find no files from the period but see http://www.pjb.co.uk/8/Exchange.htm. Paul Bacsich 12:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
There's just way too much detail on PLATO for this sort of a summary page. Some of this should be moved to PLATO's own entry, while some of it belongs in a separate, non-Wikipedia document that focuses specifically on the Blackboard prior art issue. I understand the motivation for this, but I think it goes to far in terms of turning this page from a list of historic events to specific legal documentation.
Is online testing relevant?
1995 Online multiple choice quiz script released by Eric Tachibana (Selena Sol) et al. of eXtropia, earliest download page available at the Internet Archive is from 1998 with various educational site examples [2].
1996 Quiztest inspired by Eric Tachibana (Selena Sol)'s multiple choice script above, an online testing system capable of displaying content such as a text prior to the test, was released by Kristina Pfaff-Harris.
I'm posting this because of my surprise and disgust at that appalling Blackboard patent and it's only an observation but I see mostly academic and recent stuff here, yet there was a plethora of what was called CBT (Computer Based Training) software around in the commercial mainframe computing world in the 1980s (and probably earlier) and the article looks grossly incomplete without a mention of it - to me at least. I couldn't dig up anything much from this newfangled Internet thing other than this http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0SMG/is_n15_v8/ai_7206477 but it was a long time ago. -- Straycat 20:41, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
Postings over the August 26-28 weekend period have broadened the scope of this article to include "distance learning". Interesting, because even without a software or algorithmic core, such approaches might have been, or might be, patentable "business methods" (in US anyway). But there are other broadenings of e-learning beyond the VLE/LMS core that are not included: quality, benchmarking, etc. Some other things creep in from time to time but not systematically, e.g. e-learning hardware. A quick scan of Wikipedia suggests that there are no "History of X" articles close to this article - and I detect no drive from elsewhere to create such. So how far should we extend this one? Presumably the working view is "keep broadening till lots of people shout"? Paul Bacsich 08:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Keep adding sourced encyclopedic unbiased content until it gets to the point that it makes sense to break pieces out of it. The current timeline might wind up becoming two sets of articles : one based on time (eg pre1980, 80s, 90s, 00s) and one based on conceptual subdivisions (eg benchmarking e-learning, e-learning algorithms, e-learning software suites, e-learning businesses, etc.). Then you can place a navigation box (template) at the top of each article pointing to your suite of articles. WAS 4.250 08:49, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Note that "Virtual Learning Environment" as defined in this article excludes the original NON-INTERACTIVE "distance learning" modality: pedagogic text. Text on paper was first primarily used to span distance in time, but eventually would typically span distance in space as easily via postal service, dispersed publication, et cetera. See Library. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.78.53.129 ( talk) 05:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC).
This article is way too long. Very few people would actually have the attention span to read this whole thing. In my opinion this article needs to be summarized with descriptions of only the most important events and also of visible trends; the more detailed information could be placed in seperate articles by decade. For info on how to do this, see WP:SIZE I'd do it myself but I don't know anything about the topic. Ahudson 18:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
The claims about the "average adult" having a "20 minute attention span" in the WP:SIZE page are dubious. No evidence is cited -- one reference is to a discussion of driving (not reading), the other two are to secondary sources that merely make this claim without providing any evidence. I think the article is fine as-is.
Breaking it into smaller articles would be fine, but please don't delete anything. I refer to this all the time. Computerhag 15:04, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
I think refactoring the 1990s into a separate article is questionable, given that much of the discussion on prior art regarding Blackboard's patent happens to hinge on the 1999-2000 time frame. It was good, in that it halved the size of the article. However, this action could also be viewed as 'convenient'. I agree with Ahudson, that highlights should be covered in this article and details should be broken out into separate articles. Perhaps someone can start by bringing them in from the 1990's. -- Todd —Preceding comment was added at 18:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
There's no mention of the IUPUI effort that created ANGEL Learning, FYI. http://www.iupui.edu/news/angel2.htm I don't have time right now to incorporate it, but hope to come back to do it. Computerhag 15:16, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
There is a new article called public participation in patent examination. I've put a link to this article as an example. Any others?-- Nowa 14:02, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
I posted a link to this article over at "Just N examiner" blog. The topic of discussion was prior art searches. I asked the examiner community there if the format of this particular article was useful. Here is the response from a biotech patent examiner (posted with his permission):
So in short, nice work to all.
Any other patents or pending patent applications that we should develop histories for?-- Nowa 23:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
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BetacommandBot ( talk) 14:42, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
There is an ongoing discussion about the nature of VLEs and LMS systems. It is increasingly being accepted that a Learning Management System is not a direct equivalent of a VLE but a larger system that could include a VLE and a host of other pieces of software or hardware. See discussion at the LMS entry. Gillorien ( talk) 16:54, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
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