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Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
RMCD bot 05:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Consider the material here, from a conversation with IZAK, for inclusion, modifying some text
Dear IZAK. I only checked one datum in one article (Angola), and the source you used, that on
Paulo Dias de Novais, of whom you write that historians say he was "Jewish" , adding in brackets a
WP:OR gloss '(probably meaning "Crypto-Jewish" or a Converso of some sort). Some historians turns out to be one historian, David Birmingham. Since the suggestion that a
fidalgo of the Portuguese court, accompanying a Jesuit mission, and known to be a godfather at baptism of Angolan indigenous royalty, was a crypto-Jew was interesting, I looked into it also because there's a fine distinction, often appallingly ignored, to be made between a
crypto-Jew and the
Cristão-Novo. I checked the
Portuguese wikibio, and there is no mention of this. Many in the Atlantic trade were either 'crypto-Jews' or practicing Catholics of Jewish descent, an important distinction. At least one of the men Dias de Novais brought with him was a 'new Christian' (Duarte Lopez), which can't be glossed as a crypto-Jew unless there is proof. These new Christians (not crypto-Jews) were the primary merchants in the Atlantic trade at that time (Jared Staller , Converging on Cannibals: Terrors of Slaving in Atlantic Africa, 1509–1670,Ohio University Press 2019 p.60). So I read a chapter in Linda M. Heywood's Njinga of Angola (HUP)2017, and there is no mention of it there either. She has him crediting his military victories to the 'Blessed Virgin Mary', and states nothing he did was undertaken without first consulting the Jesuit priests. His whole campaign, among his own troops, and the Africans was infused with the usual Catholic intensities (pp.30-33)
This to illustrate that just googling Jews+country to get stuff (unpaginated) is parlous. I'm glad you wrote those articles, but the method used leaves a large number of problems that could have easily been avoided by the usual multiple source control of each and every datum. People out there rely on us to do this pernickety legwork. I hope you can use this to correct the error.
Nishidani (
talk) 14:48, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Jewish history on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related articles
There is a move discussion in progress on
Talk:History of the Jews in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —
RMCD bot 05:03, 5 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Consider the material here, from a conversation with IZAK, for inclusion, modifying some text
Dear IZAK. I only checked one datum in one article (Angola), and the source you used, that on
Paulo Dias de Novais, of whom you write that historians say he was "Jewish" , adding in brackets a
WP:OR gloss '(probably meaning "Crypto-Jewish" or a Converso of some sort). Some historians turns out to be one historian, David Birmingham. Since the suggestion that a
fidalgo of the Portuguese court, accompanying a Jesuit mission, and known to be a godfather at baptism of Angolan indigenous royalty, was a crypto-Jew was interesting, I looked into it also because there's a fine distinction, often appallingly ignored, to be made between a
crypto-Jew and the
Cristão-Novo. I checked the
Portuguese wikibio, and there is no mention of this. Many in the Atlantic trade were either 'crypto-Jews' or practicing Catholics of Jewish descent, an important distinction. At least one of the men Dias de Novais brought with him was a 'new Christian' (Duarte Lopez), which can't be glossed as a crypto-Jew unless there is proof. These new Christians (not crypto-Jews) were the primary merchants in the Atlantic trade at that time (Jared Staller , Converging on Cannibals: Terrors of Slaving in Atlantic Africa, 1509–1670,Ohio University Press 2019 p.60). So I read a chapter in Linda M. Heywood's Njinga of Angola (HUP)2017, and there is no mention of it there either. She has him crediting his military victories to the 'Blessed Virgin Mary', and states nothing he did was undertaken without first consulting the Jesuit priests. His whole campaign, among his own troops, and the Africans was infused with the usual Catholic intensities (pp.30-33)
This to illustrate that just googling Jews+country to get stuff (unpaginated) is parlous. I'm glad you wrote those articles, but the method used leaves a large number of problems that could have easily been avoided by the usual multiple source control of each and every datum. People out there rely on us to do this pernickety legwork. I hope you can use this to correct the error.
Nishidani (
talk) 14:48, 16 June 2020 (UTC)reply