![]() | History of the Constitution of the Roman Empire was nominated as a good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 11, 2008). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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Why does this article stop at the accession of Diocletian (284 AD)? The earliest obvious stopping point would be when the succession arrangements for the Western and Eastern halves diverged. Although Diocletian's division of the empire implied such a divergence, Constantine I ("the Great") re-united the empire and then set up a similar "2+2" division of authority. I suggest the earliest reasonable stopping point would be either the death of Diocletian, with a description of his constitutional arrangements, or the death of Constantine I, with a description of his constitutional arrangements. Personally I'd go for Constantine I, and outline the history of the Empire up to the point where the split between Western and Eastern became permanent - and link to articles on the separate successor empires. However I notice that History of the Constitution of the Late Roman Empire mentions the "abolition of the Principate around 300 AD" (11 years before Diocletian's death), so an explanation of this change and its effects (i.e. why it marks the transition from the "the Roman Empire" to "the Late Roman Empire") might be a suitable stopping point. All of this material is covered any any decent book on the history of the Empire. BTW the current stopping point struck me as odd simply on the basis of my background knoweldge, without any research.
Diocletian should be linked.
OTOH congratulations on highlighting the importance of the succession issue. -- Philcha ( talk) 12:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Are these two articles related? They seem to be on the same subject. — Mattisse ( Talk) 21:56, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The article lists many sources at the end but every single footnote in the text goes to one book: Abbott, Frank Frost (1901). A History and Description of Roman Political Institutions, Elibron Classics. ISBN 0-543-92749-0. What material is drawn from the other sources? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I will be reviewing this article. MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 20:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok...I'm afraid it's a fail, for this primary reason: the article does not really focus enough on the "Constitution of the Roman Empire". It is basically a history of Roman Emperors under the Principate, with notes referring to constitutional changes. A substantial amount of the information which is described here is nothing to do with the constitution. For instance:
What does that have to do with the constitution?
Furthermore, is there such thing as the "Constitution of the Roman Empire"? As far as I'm aware, the constitution was essentially the same as the Republican consitution, albiet modified by subsequent emperors. Crucially, the office of 'Emperor' did not even legally exist! Whilst the drastic reforms of the Dominate probably do qualify that as a new constitution, I'm not sure the Romans during the Principate would have thought they were under a seperate 'imperial' constitution. Regardless, the article needs to focus much more on the actual changes (when, what, why); the surrounding history is not important in this article.
I don't really see that this subject requires a separate article from Constitution of the Roman Empire and History of the Roman Constitution; I think all the changes that are described in this article can quite happily be described elsewhere; there is an over-proliferation of articles here. I just don't think there is a lot to talk about here that isn't already discussed elsewhere. If this article is purged of irrelevant information, there won't be a lot of it left.
Anyway, besides these general questions, there are several major problems with the article.
"176, Marcus Aurelius made his son, L. Aurelius Commodus, his new co-emperor. This arrangement was revived more than a century later, when the emperor Diocletian established the Tetrarchy"
"The most significant constitutional development that occurred during the reign of Marcus Aurelius was the revival of the republican principle of collegiality,[24] as he made his brother, L. Aelius, his co-emperor. Marcus Aurelius ruled the western half of the empire, while his brother ruled the eastern half of the empire"
And so on.
"Domitian, ultimately, was a tyrant with the character which always makes tyranny repulsive,[21] and this derived in part from his own paranoia." (This also has nothing to do with the constitution)
Whilst the article is generally well written, I feel that this article needs a re-write so that it corresponds to its title. For that reason, I'm not going to put it on hold. If the article is modified as suggested, it will need a new review. MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 21:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
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![]() | History of the Constitution of the Roman Empire was nominated as a good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 11, 2008). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
|
Why does this article stop at the accession of Diocletian (284 AD)? The earliest obvious stopping point would be when the succession arrangements for the Western and Eastern halves diverged. Although Diocletian's division of the empire implied such a divergence, Constantine I ("the Great") re-united the empire and then set up a similar "2+2" division of authority. I suggest the earliest reasonable stopping point would be either the death of Diocletian, with a description of his constitutional arrangements, or the death of Constantine I, with a description of his constitutional arrangements. Personally I'd go for Constantine I, and outline the history of the Empire up to the point where the split between Western and Eastern became permanent - and link to articles on the separate successor empires. However I notice that History of the Constitution of the Late Roman Empire mentions the "abolition of the Principate around 300 AD" (11 years before Diocletian's death), so an explanation of this change and its effects (i.e. why it marks the transition from the "the Roman Empire" to "the Late Roman Empire") might be a suitable stopping point. All of this material is covered any any decent book on the history of the Empire. BTW the current stopping point struck me as odd simply on the basis of my background knoweldge, without any research.
Diocletian should be linked.
OTOH congratulations on highlighting the importance of the succession issue. -- Philcha ( talk) 12:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
Are these two articles related? They seem to be on the same subject. — Mattisse ( Talk) 21:56, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The article lists many sources at the end but every single footnote in the text goes to one book: Abbott, Frank Frost (1901). A History and Description of Roman Political Institutions, Elibron Classics. ISBN 0-543-92749-0. What material is drawn from the other sources? ·:· Will Beback ·:· 20:46, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I will be reviewing this article. MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 20:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok...I'm afraid it's a fail, for this primary reason: the article does not really focus enough on the "Constitution of the Roman Empire". It is basically a history of Roman Emperors under the Principate, with notes referring to constitutional changes. A substantial amount of the information which is described here is nothing to do with the constitution. For instance:
What does that have to do with the constitution?
Furthermore, is there such thing as the "Constitution of the Roman Empire"? As far as I'm aware, the constitution was essentially the same as the Republican consitution, albiet modified by subsequent emperors. Crucially, the office of 'Emperor' did not even legally exist! Whilst the drastic reforms of the Dominate probably do qualify that as a new constitution, I'm not sure the Romans during the Principate would have thought they were under a seperate 'imperial' constitution. Regardless, the article needs to focus much more on the actual changes (when, what, why); the surrounding history is not important in this article.
I don't really see that this subject requires a separate article from Constitution of the Roman Empire and History of the Roman Constitution; I think all the changes that are described in this article can quite happily be described elsewhere; there is an over-proliferation of articles here. I just don't think there is a lot to talk about here that isn't already discussed elsewhere. If this article is purged of irrelevant information, there won't be a lot of it left.
Anyway, besides these general questions, there are several major problems with the article.
"176, Marcus Aurelius made his son, L. Aurelius Commodus, his new co-emperor. This arrangement was revived more than a century later, when the emperor Diocletian established the Tetrarchy"
"The most significant constitutional development that occurred during the reign of Marcus Aurelius was the revival of the republican principle of collegiality,[24] as he made his brother, L. Aelius, his co-emperor. Marcus Aurelius ruled the western half of the empire, while his brother ruled the eastern half of the empire"
And so on.
"Domitian, ultimately, was a tyrant with the character which always makes tyranny repulsive,[21] and this derived in part from his own paranoia." (This also has nothing to do with the constitution)
Whilst the article is generally well written, I feel that this article needs a re-write so that it corresponds to its title. For that reason, I'm not going to put it on hold. If the article is modified as suggested, it will need a new review. MinisterForBadTimes ( talk) 21:39, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on History of the Constitution of the Roman Empire. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:34, 3 April 2017 (UTC)