![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Please see RE BC & Pacific Northwest History Forum re: Talk:List of United States military history events#Border Commission troops in the Pacific Northwest. If you think maybe I should also move some or copy some of my other stuff from NW history and BC history pages and various Indigenous peoples project article/talk pages let me know; I never mean to blog, but I'm voluble and to me everything's interconnected; never meaning to dominate a page so have made this area to post my historical rambles on. Thoughts? Skookum1 03:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's a draft for the 1st 4 decades of the 20th century, still needs work, though. Could be organized better, and it reflects my own interest in this history, so it could probably use some balancing out. And its probably too long for this period, especially once a postwar history gets added in there. But, its something to work with. Bobanny 22:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking prohibition (including, by extension, the temperance and women's movements) should be incorporated in the vice section (echoing Skookum, methinks), and also maybe the free speech fights. Maybe have more comprehensive categories (economics, politics, immigration, that sort of thing) and maybe make this part into its own page (like Seattle's does. Bobanny 05:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Those would all be "Politics" wouldn't they? Of course, in BC, crime is politics, and the politicians are just a bunch of criminals who haven't tripped up yet, but that's beside the point: termperance and suffrage are interlinked, as is Prohibition and also veteran's rights; and free speech rights is definitely politics, but speaking your mind remains a faux pas socially here, even though not necessarily any longer a crime...just wanted to add, relative to the "association with vice" thing on Chinatown and Japantown is that the whorehouses were already established on Dupont Street (E. Pender) when the Chinese moved back from China Creek, where they had fled in the winter riots of 1885-86 (early 1886 I think; don't have the date handy), and Chinese merchants chose to set up shop alongside the whorehouses, as there was a lot of "custom" (consumer traffic in the old merchandising slogan) because of the life generated by a bawdyhouse district; they also didn't have the same qualms and pretentiousness towards prostitution of the Protestant establishment (the post-railway establishment, as pre-railway Gastown was very live-and-let-live). Ditto with those officially-sanctioned bordellos that were built out on Alexander Street, where the Dupont girls moved when the city finally kicked them out of there (and it became more available for Chinese businesses to settle in/expand...); can't remember what year that got going (Alexander St) but I don't think Japantown was all that large yet; if it was the '20s, OK, but really that area of Alexander Street in the '90s (when I think the "project" got going) was a remote area, maybe close to the beginnings of what became Japantown, but again the working girls were there before the ethnic community had become all that established; and again the Japanese are more practical towards certain things that Protestant values condemn as "vice". The first whorehouses in Gastown were around where the remaining chunk of Woodward's is - really a bunch of shack-tents, and it happened that this was the same area that a few Chinese had chosen to put their tents.....gee, I wonder why? It's also worth mentioning that, especially in early Gastown, whoring was a multicultural business, girls and madams alike; I'm not sure of the ethnicity of the oldest Hastings area (Woodward's) group, but it quite probably including Asian and Polynesian girls as well as Indian and what few whites there were (probably transplanted San Franciscans or otherwise via the US); but the reason wasn't racism, but as with the labour force, Asia and Polynesia and the like were a lot easier to get talent in than from, say, London's East End. As for opium, gambling, and other vice, yeah, there's obvoius reasons Chinatowns get that rap - essentially Chinese business people being more willing to provide what more "righteous" operators would not, whether it's girls, opium, booze (although everyone served booze in those days, including the banks or gambling games, which the Chinese themselves were fond of); blaming it on "racism" is just more of the knee-jerk stuff. As for Hogan's Alley, that's a different story and a different era, and between L.D. Taylor and Grandma Hendrix it's a different tale altogether. The last vestige of that community I remember, by the way, was Vie's Steak House, on Union about seven doors east of Main, and of course the bar next to the Ivanhoe that was for a while re-named Hogan's Alley in tribute to its forebears (it was a jazz/r&b joint). Skookum1 17:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
And re my pending reply to Bobanny above, time has slipped away these last few days and last night I wound up pre-occupied cribbing from Teit to write Nicola (chief), still not quite done and needs expansion from other sources. I'm gone to the mountains (round Lillooet) for the next week as of this afternoon and won't be wiki'ing, but I have been meaning to reply and will once I'm back. Skookum1 17:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
One thing I did want to suggest was the dates on chapter sections should be more like 1880s-1918 (or 1914), 1914/18-1929, 1930-1945, and so on; 1900 as a cutoff date is in the middle of a period in Vancouver, not the beginning or end of one....(IMO; although there were significant shifts because of the Klondike but that's throughout North America). Skookum1 17:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
As of [1], the article during the review, I failed this article for Good Article status for the following reasons:
Therefore the article is not yet ready for GA at the moment. A lot of copyediting is needed. I'd suggest to find other copyeditors that are unknown about the subject to copyedit this article. When it is ready, the article can be renominated back. As always, if you feel disagree about this review, you may ask for re-review. — Indon ( reply) — 15:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I uploaded a booklet from 1946 with a pretty comprehensive history of Vancouver. It's got it's flaws (a promo for the city), but it also has some interesting material you won't see in many other places, such as sport and aviation history, and it's loaded with photos (a lot of which can be found on the City of Van archives website. I had technical problems with it; I tried to upload it as a pdf, but that didn't work so I made it a .djvu file, which I had to download a browser plug-in to work. Hopefully others can access; it's 100 pages and has a lot of detail. Image:VanJubileeSouvenir.djvu bobanny 20:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Please see RE BC & Pacific Northwest History Forum re: Talk:List of United States military history events#Border Commission troops in the Pacific Northwest. If you think maybe I should also move some or copy some of my other stuff from NW history and BC history pages and various Indigenous peoples project article/talk pages let me know; I never mean to blog, but I'm voluble and to me everything's interconnected; never meaning to dominate a page so have made this area to post my historical rambles on. Thoughts? Skookum1 03:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Here's a draft for the 1st 4 decades of the 20th century, still needs work, though. Could be organized better, and it reflects my own interest in this history, so it could probably use some balancing out. And its probably too long for this period, especially once a postwar history gets added in there. But, its something to work with. Bobanny 22:46, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm thinking prohibition (including, by extension, the temperance and women's movements) should be incorporated in the vice section (echoing Skookum, methinks), and also maybe the free speech fights. Maybe have more comprehensive categories (economics, politics, immigration, that sort of thing) and maybe make this part into its own page (like Seattle's does. Bobanny 05:03, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
Those would all be "Politics" wouldn't they? Of course, in BC, crime is politics, and the politicians are just a bunch of criminals who haven't tripped up yet, but that's beside the point: termperance and suffrage are interlinked, as is Prohibition and also veteran's rights; and free speech rights is definitely politics, but speaking your mind remains a faux pas socially here, even though not necessarily any longer a crime...just wanted to add, relative to the "association with vice" thing on Chinatown and Japantown is that the whorehouses were already established on Dupont Street (E. Pender) when the Chinese moved back from China Creek, where they had fled in the winter riots of 1885-86 (early 1886 I think; don't have the date handy), and Chinese merchants chose to set up shop alongside the whorehouses, as there was a lot of "custom" (consumer traffic in the old merchandising slogan) because of the life generated by a bawdyhouse district; they also didn't have the same qualms and pretentiousness towards prostitution of the Protestant establishment (the post-railway establishment, as pre-railway Gastown was very live-and-let-live). Ditto with those officially-sanctioned bordellos that were built out on Alexander Street, where the Dupont girls moved when the city finally kicked them out of there (and it became more available for Chinese businesses to settle in/expand...); can't remember what year that got going (Alexander St) but I don't think Japantown was all that large yet; if it was the '20s, OK, but really that area of Alexander Street in the '90s (when I think the "project" got going) was a remote area, maybe close to the beginnings of what became Japantown, but again the working girls were there before the ethnic community had become all that established; and again the Japanese are more practical towards certain things that Protestant values condemn as "vice". The first whorehouses in Gastown were around where the remaining chunk of Woodward's is - really a bunch of shack-tents, and it happened that this was the same area that a few Chinese had chosen to put their tents.....gee, I wonder why? It's also worth mentioning that, especially in early Gastown, whoring was a multicultural business, girls and madams alike; I'm not sure of the ethnicity of the oldest Hastings area (Woodward's) group, but it quite probably including Asian and Polynesian girls as well as Indian and what few whites there were (probably transplanted San Franciscans or otherwise via the US); but the reason wasn't racism, but as with the labour force, Asia and Polynesia and the like were a lot easier to get talent in than from, say, London's East End. As for opium, gambling, and other vice, yeah, there's obvoius reasons Chinatowns get that rap - essentially Chinese business people being more willing to provide what more "righteous" operators would not, whether it's girls, opium, booze (although everyone served booze in those days, including the banks or gambling games, which the Chinese themselves were fond of); blaming it on "racism" is just more of the knee-jerk stuff. As for Hogan's Alley, that's a different story and a different era, and between L.D. Taylor and Grandma Hendrix it's a different tale altogether. The last vestige of that community I remember, by the way, was Vie's Steak House, on Union about seven doors east of Main, and of course the bar next to the Ivanhoe that was for a while re-named Hogan's Alley in tribute to its forebears (it was a jazz/r&b joint). Skookum1 17:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
And re my pending reply to Bobanny above, time has slipped away these last few days and last night I wound up pre-occupied cribbing from Teit to write Nicola (chief), still not quite done and needs expansion from other sources. I'm gone to the mountains (round Lillooet) for the next week as of this afternoon and won't be wiki'ing, but I have been meaning to reply and will once I'm back. Skookum1 17:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
One thing I did want to suggest was the dates on chapter sections should be more like 1880s-1918 (or 1914), 1914/18-1929, 1930-1945, and so on; 1900 as a cutoff date is in the middle of a period in Vancouver, not the beginning or end of one....(IMO; although there were significant shifts because of the Klondike but that's throughout North America). Skookum1 17:14, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
As of [1], the article during the review, I failed this article for Good Article status for the following reasons:
Therefore the article is not yet ready for GA at the moment. A lot of copyediting is needed. I'd suggest to find other copyeditors that are unknown about the subject to copyedit this article. When it is ready, the article can be renominated back. As always, if you feel disagree about this review, you may ask for re-review. — Indon ( reply) — 15:50, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I uploaded a booklet from 1946 with a pretty comprehensive history of Vancouver. It's got it's flaws (a promo for the city), but it also has some interesting material you won't see in many other places, such as sport and aviation history, and it's loaded with photos (a lot of which can be found on the City of Van archives website. I had technical problems with it; I tried to upload it as a pdf, but that didn't work so I made it a .djvu file, which I had to download a browser plug-in to work. Hopefully others can access; it's 100 pages and has a lot of detail. Image:VanJubileeSouvenir.djvu bobanny 20:21, 29 April 2007 (UTC)