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The result of the move request was: moved ( non-admin closure) Mdaniels5757 ( talk) 00:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
– By WP:DEFINITE and WP:CONCISE, the use of "the" should be dropped from these titles because it simply is not necessary to convey the topics of the articles. Additionally, the use of the definite article in these cases is clunky and should not be in use per WP:NATURALNESS. For now, we can disregard the "political correctness" argument that using the definite article to refer to ethnic groups in certain cases is "othering" and a social wrong. While I personally think this argument is compelling, the true test of whether referring to "Italians" with "the" is acceptable can simply be conducted by looking at the wider media: In 2019, news articles mentioning "the Italians" were a minority (30.7%) of articles mentioning "Italians". While that may sound like a lot, consider that this rudimentary search overrepresents usage of "the Italians" because it counts all articles that use "the Italians" as if they only use "the Italians", even if just "Italians" is used more throughout the article. Usage is also skewed in favor of "the Italians" by counting qualified usages ("The Italians who live down the street..."), proper nouns ("In a recent episode of 'Cultures of Las Vegas: The Italians'..."), and other usages which require use of an article. Despite all of this, "Italians" beats out "the Italians" in the media by a 2-to-1 ratio. By WP:COMMONNAME, the titles of the articles should be changed to reflect this usage by the media. Mysterymanblue ( talk) 23:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the move request was: moved ( non-admin closure) Mdaniels5757 ( talk) 00:37, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
– By WP:DEFINITE and WP:CONCISE, the use of "the" should be dropped from these titles because it simply is not necessary to convey the topics of the articles. Additionally, the use of the definite article in these cases is clunky and should not be in use per WP:NATURALNESS. For now, we can disregard the "political correctness" argument that using the definite article to refer to ethnic groups in certain cases is "othering" and a social wrong. While I personally think this argument is compelling, the true test of whether referring to "Italians" with "the" is acceptable can simply be conducted by looking at the wider media: In 2019, news articles mentioning "the Italians" were a minority (30.7%) of articles mentioning "Italians". While that may sound like a lot, consider that this rudimentary search overrepresents usage of "the Italians" because it counts all articles that use "the Italians" as if they only use "the Italians", even if just "Italians" is used more throughout the article. Usage is also skewed in favor of "the Italians" by counting qualified usages ("The Italians who live down the street..."), proper nouns ("In a recent episode of 'Cultures of Las Vegas: The Italians'..."), and other usages which require use of an article. Despite all of this, "Italians" beats out "the Italians" in the media by a 2-to-1 ratio. By WP:COMMONNAME, the titles of the articles should be changed to reflect this usage by the media. Mysterymanblue ( talk) 23:26, 4 June 2020 (UTC)