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I have a novel published in 1802 by Eleanor Sleath entitled 'Who's the Murderer?' Surely this must be the first whodunnit?
John Pine johnno@globalnet.co.uk
This article is on historical whodunnits - that is, whodunnits with a historical setting, not whodunnits written in the past. To be a historical whodunnit, a story has to fit some guideline such as being set before the author's birthdate (not everyone agrees on the guideline). Otherwise, every whodunnit ever written would become a historical whodunnit at some point in time, making the distinction between contemporary fiction and historical fiction essentially meaningless. Margaret Donsbach ( talk) 18:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
You get the impression that Carr just wrote "The bride in Newgate" and then never entered the historical whodunnit again. He wrote a string of novels in the 50-ties and 60-ties. Also it doesn't even mention Peter Lovesey who made himself a name in the 70-ties with novels of a sgt. Cribb, a victorian detective. It is from them Peters and the rest got the torch and carried it on. Also, it does not do not to mention Carrs The murder of Sir Edmund Berry Godfrey which is admittedly based on a real crime but written as if it were a novel. It arrived in 1936. Kurben 11:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Which of Anna Katherine Green's stories/novels are supposed to be historical? I checked a couple of these, including The Mystery of the Hasty Arrow, and they all appear to be set around the time that Green wrote them in the late 1800s - in other words, contemporary settings, not historical. If she did indeed write a historical whodunnit, it would be helpful to include the title(s). If not, the reference to her should be removed. Margaret Donsbach ( talk) 18:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
If it is, can I add CJ Sansom, Susannah Gregory, James Mcgee, Andrew Pepper... I could go on. Jake Arnott writes crime novels set in the 60s. Does that count? - Streona 00:35, September 27, 2012
The result of the move request was: Move to Historical mystery. Cúchullain t/ c 16:05, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Historical whodunnit →
Historical whodunit – The one-N spelling is the first-used spelling from the 1930s
[1]
[2] and the
Google Ngram viewer library scan shows it to be the most-used. The main article
whodunit also uses one N, presumably for these reasons. —
TAnthony
Talk
09:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Upon further research improving the article, most external sources I'm finding and Google Ngram viewer prefer Historical mystery to Historical whodunit. I'm also finding that "historical mystery" is either already being used in some form or fits better/feels less clunky (to me) in author and novel articles referring to the genre. Admittedly I have been adding links to this effect when appropriate articles refer to "mystery" but leaving "whodunit" where it exists. I'd like to steer this move request in the direction of:
I should also note that "historical whodunnit" (2 Ns) does not come up at all on the Google Ngram. My previous search had been without the word "historical."— TAnthony Talk 05:32, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
This article seems a list, with some original viewpoint text, not reporting any discussion among the literati that this is a genre. Why keep this article?
The references support the notion of mystery stories, but not this oddly named genre. There is a link to the etymology of the cute term whodunit or whodunnit. If there are no essays or articles to support this notion of an actual genre beyond this Wikipedia entry, why write this at all? Agatha Christie was a mystery writer, not the paragon for this article, as the choice of the book cover image suggest. Without serious references on the genre itself, this article stands on sand. If there are arenas in which this is described, beyond this shaky list, then bring those in. Otherwise, these are all mystery stories or novels set in a time period other than when the author was living. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 01:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
A Morbid Taste for Bones is a medieval mystery novel by Ellis Peters set in May 1137.
This article has the right name now! Excellent. The text is so much better, explaining the meaning and relating it to other genres as well. Thanks TAnthony! -- Prairieplant ( talk) 04:36, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Why did User: Bshong0520 add this to the end of the article, among the categories?
Using google translate after zh: was added History Mystery followed by # Reasoning.
I do not know what zh: means in Wikipedia editing. Nothing seems to show up on the Edit tab or the article itself from this addition.
Is this a way to link the article to the Chinese Wikipedia? Ever curious, -- Prairieplant ( talk) 14:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
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Historical mystery. Please take a moment to review
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There were some examples of this historical whodunit in the Czech literature. One of the most famous Czech writers Karel Čapek wrote in his “Stories from a Pocket and Stories from Another Pocket” (book of detective stories; translated to English as “Tales from Two Pockets” … highly recommended, it is just a pure delight to read) also a story “Fall of the Smiřický family”, which is similar in its setting to Josephine Tay’s The Daughter of Time: confused historian comes to the police detective asking for help with solving a medieval triple murder.
Another story, which is now pure novel, is one of the candidates of the earliest member of this class. Radovan Šimáček who wrote in 1940 novel “Crime at the Zlenice castle AD 1318” Zločin na Zlenicích hradě L. P. 1318, which is completely set in the Middle Ages and an ad hoc detective (he is accused of murder of his father) solves the mystery of locked room.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I have a novel published in 1802 by Eleanor Sleath entitled 'Who's the Murderer?' Surely this must be the first whodunnit?
John Pine johnno@globalnet.co.uk
This article is on historical whodunnits - that is, whodunnits with a historical setting, not whodunnits written in the past. To be a historical whodunnit, a story has to fit some guideline such as being set before the author's birthdate (not everyone agrees on the guideline). Otherwise, every whodunnit ever written would become a historical whodunnit at some point in time, making the distinction between contemporary fiction and historical fiction essentially meaningless. Margaret Donsbach ( talk) 18:42, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
You get the impression that Carr just wrote "The bride in Newgate" and then never entered the historical whodunnit again. He wrote a string of novels in the 50-ties and 60-ties. Also it doesn't even mention Peter Lovesey who made himself a name in the 70-ties with novels of a sgt. Cribb, a victorian detective. It is from them Peters and the rest got the torch and carried it on. Also, it does not do not to mention Carrs The murder of Sir Edmund Berry Godfrey which is admittedly based on a real crime but written as if it were a novel. It arrived in 1936. Kurben 11:57, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
Which of Anna Katherine Green's stories/novels are supposed to be historical? I checked a couple of these, including The Mystery of the Hasty Arrow, and they all appear to be set around the time that Green wrote them in the late 1800s - in other words, contemporary settings, not historical. If she did indeed write a historical whodunnit, it would be helpful to include the title(s). If not, the reference to her should be removed. Margaret Donsbach ( talk) 18:49, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
If it is, can I add CJ Sansom, Susannah Gregory, James Mcgee, Andrew Pepper... I could go on. Jake Arnott writes crime novels set in the 60s. Does that count? - Streona 00:35, September 27, 2012
The result of the move request was: Move to Historical mystery. Cúchullain t/ c 16:05, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Historical whodunnit →
Historical whodunit – The one-N spelling is the first-used spelling from the 1930s
[1]
[2] and the
Google Ngram viewer library scan shows it to be the most-used. The main article
whodunit also uses one N, presumably for these reasons. —
TAnthony
Talk
09:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Upon further research improving the article, most external sources I'm finding and Google Ngram viewer prefer Historical mystery to Historical whodunit. I'm also finding that "historical mystery" is either already being used in some form or fits better/feels less clunky (to me) in author and novel articles referring to the genre. Admittedly I have been adding links to this effect when appropriate articles refer to "mystery" but leaving "whodunit" where it exists. I'd like to steer this move request in the direction of:
I should also note that "historical whodunnit" (2 Ns) does not come up at all on the Google Ngram. My previous search had been without the word "historical."— TAnthony Talk 05:32, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
This article seems a list, with some original viewpoint text, not reporting any discussion among the literati that this is a genre. Why keep this article?
The references support the notion of mystery stories, but not this oddly named genre. There is a link to the etymology of the cute term whodunit or whodunnit. If there are no essays or articles to support this notion of an actual genre beyond this Wikipedia entry, why write this at all? Agatha Christie was a mystery writer, not the paragon for this article, as the choice of the book cover image suggest. Without serious references on the genre itself, this article stands on sand. If there are arenas in which this is described, beyond this shaky list, then bring those in. Otherwise, these are all mystery stories or novels set in a time period other than when the author was living. -- Prairieplant ( talk) 01:35, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
A Morbid Taste for Bones is a medieval mystery novel by Ellis Peters set in May 1137.
This article has the right name now! Excellent. The text is so much better, explaining the meaning and relating it to other genres as well. Thanks TAnthony! -- Prairieplant ( talk) 04:36, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Why did User: Bshong0520 add this to the end of the article, among the categories?
Using google translate after zh: was added History Mystery followed by # Reasoning.
I do not know what zh: means in Wikipedia editing. Nothing seems to show up on the Edit tab or the article itself from this addition.
Is this a way to link the article to the Chinese Wikipedia? Ever curious, -- Prairieplant ( talk) 14:23, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 5 external links on
Historical mystery. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 12:33, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Historical mystery. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:15, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
There were some examples of this historical whodunit in the Czech literature. One of the most famous Czech writers Karel Čapek wrote in his “Stories from a Pocket and Stories from Another Pocket” (book of detective stories; translated to English as “Tales from Two Pockets” … highly recommended, it is just a pure delight to read) also a story “Fall of the Smiřický family”, which is similar in its setting to Josephine Tay’s The Daughter of Time: confused historian comes to the police detective asking for help with solving a medieval triple murder.
Another story, which is now pure novel, is one of the candidates of the earliest member of this class. Radovan Šimáček who wrote in 1940 novel “Crime at the Zlenice castle AD 1318” Zločin na Zlenicích hradě L. P. 1318, which is completely set in the Middle Ages and an ad hoc detective (he is accused of murder of his father) solves the mystery of locked room.