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Does anyone else think the picture of Shōwa Tennō meeting Reagan should be moved down the article, out of the WWII section? elvenscout742 20:49, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why does the picture of Hirohito in the issue of Time Magazine have to be deleted? It seems to be a perfectly legitimate fair use context. Dr mindbender 05:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
dose anyoen know this infomation.... if yes please write it here... thank you
Can I rename the title to just Hirohito? Hirohito is just a name. The title sounds like John F. Kennedy of the United States. You got idea. -- Taku 16:23 Feb 24, 2003 (UTC)
I don't think Hirohito is a ruler's name in the first place. His name as ruler should be Showa not hirohito. Hirohito is just a his given name and he has no family name. -- Taku 00:17 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
I think the article should be renamed Emperor Showa of Japan and Hirohito should redirect to it. Danny 00:19 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
I do too, and I just did. - 'Vert
Taku, you are Japanese, right? If you pick up the Manichi Shimbun and on the front page it has an article about the former Emperor, what name does it give him? Tannin 06:40 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
You mean today or something. I don't have Mainichi Shimbun. Anyway, the convention in Japan is irrelevant. Google gives much more hits with Hirohito than with Showa emperor. I believe Showa emperor or former emperor is a common referring in Japan, but in English-speaking, hirohito is probably common. There are also many books with title with Hirohito. I am quite sure about this. Besides, anyone has justification to favor showa emperor over hirohito? I don't see one yet. -- Taku 06:48 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
Well, as long as "Hirohito" is a good, solid redirect here, whats the problem?- 'Vert
There is no such enlightment perpose on the title of an article. Wide-recognized convensions say the title should be the most familiar one to English-speaking. No more no less. -- Taku 15:51 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
OK, at least we have a little more content now to argue about. :)
I'm done for tonight (it's 2:45AM here) and will expect to see that some kind Wikipedian has corrected all my spelling errors by the time I take another look at this in the morning. :)
I still need to do a few more paras (well, about 8 to 10 I guess) on Hirohito's role in the surrender - it was a very complex situation and is probably impossible to explain in much less space than that, and critically important, I feel.
To restore balance in the depth of coverage, someone needs to do some more on his earlier life and post-war events - especially his transition to his modern role during the MacArthur administration. (Not me! I'll stick to 1940 to '45 where I know what I'm talking about.)
The account I've given accords with all the modern histories I have read, and even quite a few of the older ones if we make allowance for the evidence that was not available in, say, 1951. I don't think this stuff is controversial anymore. the passions of the war generation have cooled, and a consensus view has emerged from them. While the general thrust of the section I've added is pretty standard stuff these days, it's worth mentioning that I've followed closely in the footsteps of two of the best histories of the period that I am aware of. (Both American, as it happens.)
Tannin 15:45 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
To date there has been a dispute about whether Hirohito should be considered monarch or simply a citizen after he abandoned his divinity. That view determines whether Japan is a democratic republic or a constitutional monarchary.
Removed the above ludicrous line. According to law, the emperor is the Japanese head of state. An emperor by definition is a monarch. A country with a monarch can no more be a republic than a sheep can be a cow. This stuff about being a monarch or a citizen is rubbish. I guess whoever wrote that is mixing up his or her terms and is confused. What they probably mean is for 'monarch' - old style divine Japanese monarch, for 'citizen' - non divine standard monarch. But every single sourcebook in existence states categorically and unreservedly, as does the Japanese government, that Japan is a constitutional monarchy. It could only be a republic if the monarchy was abolished. It has not been. Otherwise there would not be an emperor. STÓD/ÉÍRE 05:46 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
It is the view, Taku, of 100% of dictionaries, 100% of encyclopædias, 100% of lawyers, 100% of the government. You are mixing up terms and coming out with a meaning you may not intend but what you say there perhaps inadvertly is utter garbage would be laughed at if read. Read the page on Constitutional monarchy or any law textbook. Don't make a laughing stock of an otherwise good page.
Taku:
The Japanese constitution says no such thing. Article 1 of the Japanese constitution states that the Emperor of Japan is the symbol of state and derives his power from the will of the people. This phrasing was *deliberately* made ambigious, and efforts to amend the constitution to name the emperor as head of state have been defeated.
Article 3 of the Japanese Constitution states that the power of the Emperor to perform acts of state is dependent on Cabinet approval. This turns the standard relationship between cabinets and head of state on its head, and means that the Japanese cabinet could remove the power of the Emperor to receive ambassadors.
Except it is far from clear that the emperor *is* head of state. There are people who argue that the Japanese emperor is not head of state, that they powers of the head of state belong to the prime minister and cabinet who have delegated them to the emperor. The Constitution and Japanese law has been structured specifically so that this interpretation is not ruled out. This ambuigity is intentional.
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200112/26/20011226p2a00m0oa010000c.html
A head of state is the person in whom legal symbolic authority for representing a state on the diplomatic curcuit is vested. This involves the receipt of credentials, the signing of credentials, the meeting of diplomats, the making of state visits, etc. All these roles are fulfilled by the Emperor of Japan, according to international diplomatic usage. If he wasn't the head of state, heads of state from around the world would not have attended his enthronement.
They would not sign letters of credence to him. he and his family could not carry out state visits. He would not meet with the diplomatic corp and sent a formal new year message to other heads of state. His functions are explicitly called head of state functions. If a head of state is elected/selected, then the state is a republic.
If it is through interitance then it cannot be a republic and is by definition a monarchy.
Executive authority may be vested in the prime minister (the same is true in Ireland, where it is vested in the cabinet) but if diplomatic functions are vested in the emperor he is head of state and the prime minister cannot be. Until 1949, those functions were not vested in the President of ireland, so even though he was president, he was not head of state and did not become so until 1st April 1949. Heads of state can only accredit ambassadors to other heads of state, no one else. Ambassadors are accredited to the emperor so in legal and diplomatic theory, in the eyes of the UN and the world, he and he alone is head of state. No one else can be. See the relevant articles on wiki and elsewhere STÓD/ÉÍRE 07:01 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
I did a little (=not much) research on this. The short answer to constitutional monarch question seems to be yes. Above reasons pointed by STÓD/ÉÍRE explain it well.
(this indented part is not mine, Tomos)
At the same time, many Japanese people, including scholars, recognize this categorization/labeling as a strange thing, since Emperor is "the symbol" of the state not "the head."
Here are some Japanese sources (including some report on discussion in the Diet) addressing that strangeness. [1], [2], [3]
Maybe it is a good idea to explain that feeling of strangeness. (And I'm hoping Taku would do it...would you? :-) Tomos
Addendum: One of the recently debated issue was the public vote to elect the prime minister. Under the existing system, prime minister of japan is selected in the Diet. And some suggested that public election is against constitution because constitutional monarchy cannot go with the presidency-like system of publicly electing the head of the government. And others said the existing emperor-as-symbol system indeed permit such political system. Here is the report on this thing issued by some discussion group commissioned (?) by private minister (Koizumi), [4]
In the section 1, it refers to the ambiguous status of the emperor in that sytem, also saying this could develop into a source of further disagreements among scholars. Tomos 08:00 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
Just let me clarify one thing - I'm not an expert on this thing. So I expect that some experts may say those discussions Japanese has is still silly and there is absolutely no doubt that Japan is a constitutional monarchy and the emperor is the head of state. So rather than asserting that there is a ground to question those things, it would be better to say that some have no doubt at all about those matters while at least in Japan there are some debates. Without really implying which position is better. Well, maybe too obvious to say, but just in case.. Tomos
Changed statement about Hirohito's involvement in World War II. The statement makes it sound like there is consensus among historians about his involvement in the war, whereas every history book I've read gives a different view of the subject, and I don't detect a consensus at all -- Roadrunner
In the immediate aftermath of the war, many Westerners believed that Hirohito bore a direct responsibility for the conflict, while others claimed that he was simply a powerless figurehead. The latter view was promoted by Allied occupation authorities, who refused to place Hirohito on trial for war crimes. The role of Hirohito in World War II remains a controversial topic with some historians arguing that his role in the war was minimal, and others, such as Herbert Bix, arguing that Hirohito was directly involved in promoting Japanese expansionism, personally approved the creation of Unit 731, which committed war crimes, and was personally culpable for hesitation in accepting unconditional surrender.
I'm moving this here for now. Roadrunner, there is ample consensus that neither of the two extreme views is justified: no-one of any stature still argues that Hirohito was the Evil Mastermind behind the war and planned the whole thing. Bix himself regards Hirohito as "the one individual whose very existence manifested the deepest political dilemmas of modern Japan", and as neither "an arch conspirator nor a dictator". Equally, no-one who knows anything about it claims that Hirohito had nothing to do with the war or that he was a powerless puppet. I've restored the previous balanced summary: Modern historians take the view that neither statement is justified. (i.e., neither dictator nor puppet.)
Now there is plenty of room still left for historical argument somewhere in between those two discredited extremes (as we both know), but the basic thrust of the modern view is very clear.
Here is a quote from a very rational review I stumbled across just now, which sets out the current consensus view as clearly as you like:
The place to discuss individual items from the broad historical canvas, such as the Pearl Harbor decision, the surrender decision, and so on, is in their correct historical order within the entry as a whole. We already have a fairly comprehensive coverage of Pear Harbour, and the first half of the surrender period (I'll try to get back and do the second half of it soon), but there remain some gaping holes - nothing on Hirohito's reign prior to 1939, nothing on his actions through the middle part of the war.
It's silly to suddenly interupt the flow of a biographical entry, before it even gets properly started, to interject with a summary of the views of one single historian before we have even begun to lay out the bare facts so that the reader may draw his own conclusions. By all means mention Bix - you don't win a Pulitzer for being a monkey with a typewriter, after all - and if you don't reinsert him at a more appropriate place then no doubt I will - please don't go inserting stuff way out of historical context. Tannin 10:12 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
room.
Tried to tweak that paragraph some more. One problem was that "direct responsibility for the war" was a bit less extreme that "evil mastermind behind the war." I think that one could argue that even if Hirohito didn't plan out the entire war that he bears "direct responsibility for the war" in the sense that he could have avoided the war if he had made different decisions. Roadrunner
I think we are in agreement. Certainly no historian I know of argues that Hirohito was analogous to Adolf Hitler or Benito Mussolini. Germany without Hitler would have been completely different, while Japan without Hirohito would have been different in detail, but it would have still likely done something like Pearl Harbor.
I think the big problem I have with the original statement was that "bore direct responsibility" didn't capture the extremeness of the "Hirohito was the evil mastermind" view.
Japanese history around WWII is fascinating because people disagree about the basic facts. Every narrative of the Marco Polo Bridge incident or the Japanese decision to surrender seems to be completely different. The thing that always fascinated me about Japanese decision making pre-WWII is how apparently rational people can make such obviously stupid and counterproductive decisions, and decisions which a large fraction of the decision makers think are stupid and counterproductive.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels between the Japanese decision to attack Pearl Harbor and the United States policy toward Iraq. -- Roadrunner
The article has been referring to Hirohito's "divinity" as if he actually was a god or a divine being. Since this POV is widely disputed (at least outside of Japan :-) may I suggest we refer to his "claim of divinity"?
Otherwise, it sounds like he was really a god until after WWII, whereupon like an immortal elf from the Lord of the Rings he became a mere mortal like the rest of us. -- Uncle Ed
What does the Divinity section add that wasn't already said earlier? RickK 22:47 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I was wondering, my History teacher told me of his rule as being stated a "revival of Shintoism" and he combined religion w/ military/government affairs. Is this veritable? And If so, how and in what ways? -- User: KidNovelist
From November 10 and 1928:
But this article says this happened in December 1926. Which is correct? Or maybe the official ceremony happened in November 1928.... --- mav 07:29, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hirohito/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs inline citations plange 05:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 05:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Does anyone else think the picture of Shōwa Tennō meeting Reagan should be moved down the article, out of the WWII section? elvenscout742 20:49, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Why does the picture of Hirohito in the issue of Time Magazine have to be deleted? It seems to be a perfectly legitimate fair use context. Dr mindbender 05:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
dose anyoen know this infomation.... if yes please write it here... thank you
Can I rename the title to just Hirohito? Hirohito is just a name. The title sounds like John F. Kennedy of the United States. You got idea. -- Taku 16:23 Feb 24, 2003 (UTC)
I don't think Hirohito is a ruler's name in the first place. His name as ruler should be Showa not hirohito. Hirohito is just a his given name and he has no family name. -- Taku 00:17 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
I think the article should be renamed Emperor Showa of Japan and Hirohito should redirect to it. Danny 00:19 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
I do too, and I just did. - 'Vert
Taku, you are Japanese, right? If you pick up the Manichi Shimbun and on the front page it has an article about the former Emperor, what name does it give him? Tannin 06:40 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
You mean today or something. I don't have Mainichi Shimbun. Anyway, the convention in Japan is irrelevant. Google gives much more hits with Hirohito than with Showa emperor. I believe Showa emperor or former emperor is a common referring in Japan, but in English-speaking, hirohito is probably common. There are also many books with title with Hirohito. I am quite sure about this. Besides, anyone has justification to favor showa emperor over hirohito? I don't see one yet. -- Taku 06:48 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
Well, as long as "Hirohito" is a good, solid redirect here, whats the problem?- 'Vert
There is no such enlightment perpose on the title of an article. Wide-recognized convensions say the title should be the most familiar one to English-speaking. No more no less. -- Taku 15:51 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
OK, at least we have a little more content now to argue about. :)
I'm done for tonight (it's 2:45AM here) and will expect to see that some kind Wikipedian has corrected all my spelling errors by the time I take another look at this in the morning. :)
I still need to do a few more paras (well, about 8 to 10 I guess) on Hirohito's role in the surrender - it was a very complex situation and is probably impossible to explain in much less space than that, and critically important, I feel.
To restore balance in the depth of coverage, someone needs to do some more on his earlier life and post-war events - especially his transition to his modern role during the MacArthur administration. (Not me! I'll stick to 1940 to '45 where I know what I'm talking about.)
The account I've given accords with all the modern histories I have read, and even quite a few of the older ones if we make allowance for the evidence that was not available in, say, 1951. I don't think this stuff is controversial anymore. the passions of the war generation have cooled, and a consensus view has emerged from them. While the general thrust of the section I've added is pretty standard stuff these days, it's worth mentioning that I've followed closely in the footsteps of two of the best histories of the period that I am aware of. (Both American, as it happens.)
Tannin 15:45 Feb 25, 2003 (UTC)
To date there has been a dispute about whether Hirohito should be considered monarch or simply a citizen after he abandoned his divinity. That view determines whether Japan is a democratic republic or a constitutional monarchary.
Removed the above ludicrous line. According to law, the emperor is the Japanese head of state. An emperor by definition is a monarch. A country with a monarch can no more be a republic than a sheep can be a cow. This stuff about being a monarch or a citizen is rubbish. I guess whoever wrote that is mixing up his or her terms and is confused. What they probably mean is for 'monarch' - old style divine Japanese monarch, for 'citizen' - non divine standard monarch. But every single sourcebook in existence states categorically and unreservedly, as does the Japanese government, that Japan is a constitutional monarchy. It could only be a republic if the monarchy was abolished. It has not been. Otherwise there would not be an emperor. STÓD/ÉÍRE 05:46 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
It is the view, Taku, of 100% of dictionaries, 100% of encyclopædias, 100% of lawyers, 100% of the government. You are mixing up terms and coming out with a meaning you may not intend but what you say there perhaps inadvertly is utter garbage would be laughed at if read. Read the page on Constitutional monarchy or any law textbook. Don't make a laughing stock of an otherwise good page.
Taku:
The Japanese constitution says no such thing. Article 1 of the Japanese constitution states that the Emperor of Japan is the symbol of state and derives his power from the will of the people. This phrasing was *deliberately* made ambigious, and efforts to amend the constitution to name the emperor as head of state have been defeated.
Article 3 of the Japanese Constitution states that the power of the Emperor to perform acts of state is dependent on Cabinet approval. This turns the standard relationship between cabinets and head of state on its head, and means that the Japanese cabinet could remove the power of the Emperor to receive ambassadors.
Except it is far from clear that the emperor *is* head of state. There are people who argue that the Japanese emperor is not head of state, that they powers of the head of state belong to the prime minister and cabinet who have delegated them to the emperor. The Constitution and Japanese law has been structured specifically so that this interpretation is not ruled out. This ambuigity is intentional.
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/archive/200112/26/20011226p2a00m0oa010000c.html
A head of state is the person in whom legal symbolic authority for representing a state on the diplomatic curcuit is vested. This involves the receipt of credentials, the signing of credentials, the meeting of diplomats, the making of state visits, etc. All these roles are fulfilled by the Emperor of Japan, according to international diplomatic usage. If he wasn't the head of state, heads of state from around the world would not have attended his enthronement.
They would not sign letters of credence to him. he and his family could not carry out state visits. He would not meet with the diplomatic corp and sent a formal new year message to other heads of state. His functions are explicitly called head of state functions. If a head of state is elected/selected, then the state is a republic.
If it is through interitance then it cannot be a republic and is by definition a monarchy.
Executive authority may be vested in the prime minister (the same is true in Ireland, where it is vested in the cabinet) but if diplomatic functions are vested in the emperor he is head of state and the prime minister cannot be. Until 1949, those functions were not vested in the President of ireland, so even though he was president, he was not head of state and did not become so until 1st April 1949. Heads of state can only accredit ambassadors to other heads of state, no one else. Ambassadors are accredited to the emperor so in legal and diplomatic theory, in the eyes of the UN and the world, he and he alone is head of state. No one else can be. See the relevant articles on wiki and elsewhere STÓD/ÉÍRE 07:01 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
I did a little (=not much) research on this. The short answer to constitutional monarch question seems to be yes. Above reasons pointed by STÓD/ÉÍRE explain it well.
(this indented part is not mine, Tomos)
At the same time, many Japanese people, including scholars, recognize this categorization/labeling as a strange thing, since Emperor is "the symbol" of the state not "the head."
Here are some Japanese sources (including some report on discussion in the Diet) addressing that strangeness. [1], [2], [3]
Maybe it is a good idea to explain that feeling of strangeness. (And I'm hoping Taku would do it...would you? :-) Tomos
Addendum: One of the recently debated issue was the public vote to elect the prime minister. Under the existing system, prime minister of japan is selected in the Diet. And some suggested that public election is against constitution because constitutional monarchy cannot go with the presidency-like system of publicly electing the head of the government. And others said the existing emperor-as-symbol system indeed permit such political system. Here is the report on this thing issued by some discussion group commissioned (?) by private minister (Koizumi), [4]
In the section 1, it refers to the ambiguous status of the emperor in that sytem, also saying this could develop into a source of further disagreements among scholars. Tomos 08:00 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
Just let me clarify one thing - I'm not an expert on this thing. So I expect that some experts may say those discussions Japanese has is still silly and there is absolutely no doubt that Japan is a constitutional monarchy and the emperor is the head of state. So rather than asserting that there is a ground to question those things, it would be better to say that some have no doubt at all about those matters while at least in Japan there are some debates. Without really implying which position is better. Well, maybe too obvious to say, but just in case.. Tomos
Changed statement about Hirohito's involvement in World War II. The statement makes it sound like there is consensus among historians about his involvement in the war, whereas every history book I've read gives a different view of the subject, and I don't detect a consensus at all -- Roadrunner
In the immediate aftermath of the war, many Westerners believed that Hirohito bore a direct responsibility for the conflict, while others claimed that he was simply a powerless figurehead. The latter view was promoted by Allied occupation authorities, who refused to place Hirohito on trial for war crimes. The role of Hirohito in World War II remains a controversial topic with some historians arguing that his role in the war was minimal, and others, such as Herbert Bix, arguing that Hirohito was directly involved in promoting Japanese expansionism, personally approved the creation of Unit 731, which committed war crimes, and was personally culpable for hesitation in accepting unconditional surrender.
I'm moving this here for now. Roadrunner, there is ample consensus that neither of the two extreme views is justified: no-one of any stature still argues that Hirohito was the Evil Mastermind behind the war and planned the whole thing. Bix himself regards Hirohito as "the one individual whose very existence manifested the deepest political dilemmas of modern Japan", and as neither "an arch conspirator nor a dictator". Equally, no-one who knows anything about it claims that Hirohito had nothing to do with the war or that he was a powerless puppet. I've restored the previous balanced summary: Modern historians take the view that neither statement is justified. (i.e., neither dictator nor puppet.)
Now there is plenty of room still left for historical argument somewhere in between those two discredited extremes (as we both know), but the basic thrust of the modern view is very clear.
Here is a quote from a very rational review I stumbled across just now, which sets out the current consensus view as clearly as you like:
The place to discuss individual items from the broad historical canvas, such as the Pearl Harbor decision, the surrender decision, and so on, is in their correct historical order within the entry as a whole. We already have a fairly comprehensive coverage of Pear Harbour, and the first half of the surrender period (I'll try to get back and do the second half of it soon), but there remain some gaping holes - nothing on Hirohito's reign prior to 1939, nothing on his actions through the middle part of the war.
It's silly to suddenly interupt the flow of a biographical entry, before it even gets properly started, to interject with a summary of the views of one single historian before we have even begun to lay out the bare facts so that the reader may draw his own conclusions. By all means mention Bix - you don't win a Pulitzer for being a monkey with a typewriter, after all - and if you don't reinsert him at a more appropriate place then no doubt I will - please don't go inserting stuff way out of historical context. Tannin 10:12 Mar 13, 2003 (UTC)
room.
Tried to tweak that paragraph some more. One problem was that "direct responsibility for the war" was a bit less extreme that "evil mastermind behind the war." I think that one could argue that even if Hirohito didn't plan out the entire war that he bears "direct responsibility for the war" in the sense that he could have avoided the war if he had made different decisions. Roadrunner
I think we are in agreement. Certainly no historian I know of argues that Hirohito was analogous to Adolf Hitler or Benito Mussolini. Germany without Hitler would have been completely different, while Japan without Hirohito would have been different in detail, but it would have still likely done something like Pearl Harbor.
I think the big problem I have with the original statement was that "bore direct responsibility" didn't capture the extremeness of the "Hirohito was the evil mastermind" view.
Japanese history around WWII is fascinating because people disagree about the basic facts. Every narrative of the Marco Polo Bridge incident or the Japanese decision to surrender seems to be completely different. The thing that always fascinated me about Japanese decision making pre-WWII is how apparently rational people can make such obviously stupid and counterproductive decisions, and decisions which a large fraction of the decision makers think are stupid and counterproductive.
Unfortunately, I see a lot of parallels between the Japanese decision to attack Pearl Harbor and the United States policy toward Iraq. -- Roadrunner
The article has been referring to Hirohito's "divinity" as if he actually was a god or a divine being. Since this POV is widely disputed (at least outside of Japan :-) may I suggest we refer to his "claim of divinity"?
Otherwise, it sounds like he was really a god until after WWII, whereupon like an immortal elf from the Lord of the Rings he became a mere mortal like the rest of us. -- Uncle Ed
What does the Divinity section add that wasn't already said earlier? RickK 22:47 13 Jul 2003 (UTC)
I was wondering, my History teacher told me of his rule as being stated a "revival of Shintoism" and he combined religion w/ military/government affairs. Is this veritable? And If so, how and in what ways? -- User: KidNovelist
From November 10 and 1928:
But this article says this happened in December 1926. Which is correct? Or maybe the official ceremony happened in November 1928.... --- mav 07:29, 11 Nov 2003 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Hirohito/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
needs inline citations plange 05:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC) |
Last edited at 05:22, 30 July 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 20:31, 3 May 2016 (UTC)