Please can Andy Mabbett explain why he keeps deleting two relevant links to graffiti art in Birmingham? Thanks Nick Boulevard 17:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
- I don't. HTH. Andy Mabbett 08:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I am guessing that Andy is implying that the links are irrelevant, and I think that he has a point in that UKGraffiti.com is too broad to be a useful link here. Links directly to images of Birmingham graffiti within the site would work, however. Whilst I am here, I will just note that I have copyt edited the article but I think that it could use some inline source citation. Nick, since you created the original article, could you flicker through citing your sources? I can help you with the syntax if you want to go through first putting the sources in as comments like this: <!--comment here-->. — Theo (Talk) 19:42, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Cheers Theo, this one is going to be interesting as I wrote this article from my own life experiences, my brother and I have been a part of this scene ever since the early eighties, this is where wikipedia is a strange affair, if I said that x happened in 1986 but it doesn't exist on the net then it cannot be used, and yet if I were to start a website stating the same info and then cited that website as my source it is less likely to be challenged, I would like to think that people here trust my opinion, if I have taken what I believe to be a fact from the net and it is proved wrong then I will look into it myself but I would never prolong the life of a
netpoo!
Nick Boulevard
23:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Sources need not be net-based. The principle here is that the contents of any article must be verifiable from reputable published sources. So, you can cite newspapers, magazines, and books as well as websites. And not all websites are considered reputable; for example, personal blogs are not credible unless you are reporting _about_ the blog. — Theo (Talk) 00:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Cheers Theo, this one is going to be interesting as I wrote this article from my own life experiences, my brother and I have been a part of this scene ever since the early eighties, this is where wikipedia is a strange affair, if I said that x happened in 1986 but it doesn't exist on the net then it cannot be used, and yet if I were to start a website stating the same info and then cited that website as my source it is less likely to be challenged, I would like to think that people here trust my opinion, if I have taken what I believe to be a fact from the net and it is proved wrong then I will look into it myself but I would never prolong the life of a
netpoo!
Nick Boulevard
23:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you Nick Boulevard 01:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Theo, re the links: firstly Chu is a Walsall born Graffiti artist who has grown up in and around Birmingham, he is one of the best known local Graffiti artists with most of his artwork between Birmingham and Walsall. He claims to be one of the first truly 3D graffiti artists, IMO his work is now of the highest quality to be found anywhere in the world. Here is an independent site with a few of his pieces. He is fairly unique in that he turned his wall art into digital graffiti and now earns a living sometimes by creating flyers for many Hip Hop nights in London and Birmingham. This is his own site which I believe is relevant to Birmingham graffiti as he is one of the city's finest exports, one of his recent commissions was for world famous Selfridges in the Birmingham Bullring. Nick Boulevard 22:59, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- In which case, put this in the article (without the promotional tone) and cite the site as a reference. — Theo (Talk) 00:10, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Do you know what... after reading my post I thought the same thing but was too tired to be bpthered to edit my post last night, thanks Theo I will do just that. Nick Boulevard 17:37, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
This website is based in Stourbridge, West Midlands and features mainly Birmingham artists like Zuki (who I have met), Chrome (whome I know through a friend), Crise, Corsa and many others whom I do not know of. It is the main UK graffiti website from searching on Google Results 1 - 10 of about 1,090,000 for graffiti uk. (0.03 seconds) it is to my knowledge the most extensive example of Birmingham graffiti art online and thus acts as a great source for my citing of Birmingham as a city with an extensive Graffiti art culture. Nick Boulevard 23:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- The site presents itself as a nationwide resource with aspirations to go international. The main page does not make it clear which material is Brummie. That is why I think that we should link to specific elements within the site. — Theo (Talk) 00:08, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the suggestion, it's a very good idea and as you say will provide a more direct route to the specifically Birmingham Graffiti. Nick Boulevard 17:39, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Although I concur with [ Andy's edit] in general, I have one key concern: The deletion of the word "rapidly" from the second paragraph undermines its sense. Could Nick (or some else with subject knowledge) quantify this even approximately? To be informative it needs to say something like "<stuff> spread throughout <region> within x years". — Theo (Talk) 14:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Ok I will try this, I know of early Graffiti art in the region and I can think of two friends who actually have the photos. I will ask one of them for help as a nice Graffiti art picture could add nicely to the article. The Rapper that is mentioned in the article was an early MC by UK standards. Nick Boulevard 17:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
In my opinion, the para about graffiti as faith art added by User:Nick Boulevard and deleted by User:Pigsonthewind is better suited to the Graffiti article than this one. I say this because I see the Hip hop scene being inextricably tied to music; the associated graffiti is relevant here but graffiti unrelated to a music scene is a step too far removed. — Theo (Talk) 00:56, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
- I sort of see what you are saying, I guess there have been Christian graffiti artists anyway, his art was a bit poor IMO. Nick Boulevard 01:15, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Please can Andy Mabbett explain why he keeps deleting two relevant links to graffiti art in Birmingham? Thanks Nick Boulevard 17:52, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
- I don't. HTH. Andy Mabbett 08:28, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
I am guessing that Andy is implying that the links are irrelevant, and I think that he has a point in that UKGraffiti.com is too broad to be a useful link here. Links directly to images of Birmingham graffiti within the site would work, however. Whilst I am here, I will just note that I have copyt edited the article but I think that it could use some inline source citation. Nick, since you created the original article, could you flicker through citing your sources? I can help you with the syntax if you want to go through first putting the sources in as comments like this: <!--comment here-->. — Theo (Talk) 19:42, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Cheers Theo, this one is going to be interesting as I wrote this article from my own life experiences, my brother and I have been a part of this scene ever since the early eighties, this is where wikipedia is a strange affair, if I said that x happened in 1986 but it doesn't exist on the net then it cannot be used, and yet if I were to start a website stating the same info and then cited that website as my source it is less likely to be challenged, I would like to think that people here trust my opinion, if I have taken what I believe to be a fact from the net and it is proved wrong then I will look into it myself but I would never prolong the life of a
netpoo!
Nick Boulevard
23:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Sources need not be net-based. The principle here is that the contents of any article must be verifiable from reputable published sources. So, you can cite newspapers, magazines, and books as well as websites. And not all websites are considered reputable; for example, personal blogs are not credible unless you are reporting _about_ the blog. — Theo (Talk) 00:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Cheers Theo, this one is going to be interesting as I wrote this article from my own life experiences, my brother and I have been a part of this scene ever since the early eighties, this is where wikipedia is a strange affair, if I said that x happened in 1986 but it doesn't exist on the net then it cannot be used, and yet if I were to start a website stating the same info and then cited that website as my source it is less likely to be challenged, I would like to think that people here trust my opinion, if I have taken what I believe to be a fact from the net and it is proved wrong then I will look into it myself but I would never prolong the life of a
netpoo!
Nick Boulevard
23:28, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- Thank you Nick Boulevard 01:11, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks Theo, re the links: firstly Chu is a Walsall born Graffiti artist who has grown up in and around Birmingham, he is one of the best known local Graffiti artists with most of his artwork between Birmingham and Walsall. He claims to be one of the first truly 3D graffiti artists, IMO his work is now of the highest quality to be found anywhere in the world. Here is an independent site with a few of his pieces. He is fairly unique in that he turned his wall art into digital graffiti and now earns a living sometimes by creating flyers for many Hip Hop nights in London and Birmingham. This is his own site which I believe is relevant to Birmingham graffiti as he is one of the city's finest exports, one of his recent commissions was for world famous Selfridges in the Birmingham Bullring. Nick Boulevard 22:59, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- In which case, put this in the article (without the promotional tone) and cite the site as a reference. — Theo (Talk) 00:10, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Do you know what... after reading my post I thought the same thing but was too tired to be bpthered to edit my post last night, thanks Theo I will do just that. Nick Boulevard 17:37, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
This website is based in Stourbridge, West Midlands and features mainly Birmingham artists like Zuki (who I have met), Chrome (whome I know through a friend), Crise, Corsa and many others whom I do not know of. It is the main UK graffiti website from searching on Google Results 1 - 10 of about 1,090,000 for graffiti uk. (0.03 seconds) it is to my knowledge the most extensive example of Birmingham graffiti art online and thus acts as a great source for my citing of Birmingham as a city with an extensive Graffiti art culture. Nick Boulevard 23:17, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
- The site presents itself as a nationwide resource with aspirations to go international. The main page does not make it clear which material is Brummie. That is why I think that we should link to specific elements within the site. — Theo (Talk) 00:08, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Thanks for the suggestion, it's a very good idea and as you say will provide a more direct route to the specifically Birmingham Graffiti. Nick Boulevard 17:39, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
Although I concur with [ Andy's edit] in general, I have one key concern: The deletion of the word "rapidly" from the second paragraph undermines its sense. Could Nick (or some else with subject knowledge) quantify this even approximately? To be informative it needs to say something like "<stuff> spread throughout <region> within x years". — Theo (Talk) 14:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
- Ok I will try this, I know of early Graffiti art in the region and I can think of two friends who actually have the photos. I will ask one of them for help as a nice Graffiti art picture could add nicely to the article. The Rapper that is mentioned in the article was an early MC by UK standards. Nick Boulevard 17:42, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
In my opinion, the para about graffiti as faith art added by User:Nick Boulevard and deleted by User:Pigsonthewind is better suited to the Graffiti article than this one. I say this because I see the Hip hop scene being inextricably tied to music; the associated graffiti is relevant here but graffiti unrelated to a music scene is a step too far removed. — Theo (Talk) 00:56, 31 July 2005 (UTC)
- I sort of see what you are saying, I guess there have been Christian graffiti artists anyway, his art was a bit poor IMO. Nick Boulevard 01:15, 2 August 2005 (UTC)