This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The edits by user Sam Spade have two problems
1. Hinduism does not constitute an ethnic group. There are lots of ethnic groups among Hindus. Even if one holds with a broad concept that ethnic group refers to shared culture, it is incorrect to use the term ethnic group because culture refers to it better. The comparison to Jews is not parallel to the situation. Indian culture and society are heterogenous. Maybe in today's context the word 'Indian' can refer to ethnicity, however Hindu and Hinduism cannot refer to ethnicity. I hope the difference can be understood.
2. Caste(varna) and race are contentious issues and there is no final word on this subject. What is written about this constitutes POV because it assumes that Hindus accept the caste system as final. If one is familiar with current India related issues then one would be aware that caste issues cause more political and social unrest than religious community issues. So when this still an open-ended situation - in terms of how it evolved, whether it is right or wrong, the motors for changes, and so on, it is not correct to state categorically that Hindus accept everything in a fatalistic manner- that implies an underlying assumption that everything about Hinduism is status quo, which is not the case.
I will wait for the counter for a day before I make any change. KRS 12:12, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I just read this article, because it was nominated to be a featured article. I very much enjoyed it. :) I did notice this sentence which needs fixing though: "God, or Brahman as is commonly referred to, exists in every living being." (I would have done it myself, but I didn't know if I could say "God, or Brahaman as he is commonly referred to, ..." or if it should be rephrased to avoid the pronoun, "God, commonly referred to as Brahamam, ..."). fabiform | talk 03:51, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Hey... I am the unknown user whose new additions/deletions have peppered much of Wikipedia Hindu-related pages recently. My id (ip) was 66.207.39.62, just for reference. Regarding the changes: First off, when we ask "What is Hinduism," Is it fair to represent it first off by caste system? It almost looks like: What is Hinduism: it is said to be a way of life and is largely defined by caste. Wrong. It is a way of life, system of six Vedic philosophies and a variety of practices. One unfortunate offshoot was a communal system created based on largely deliberate misreadings of varna-ashram concepts (that advocated social mobility). This has become caste, but is not a defining factor of Hinduism, but rather a defining factor of Hindu Society. There's a big difference. Rather, we should define it based on the broader theology and belief system and later move on to societal norms. I have addressed caste system later, but the prelude to Hinduism seems to paint it solely as caste system. Equivalent treatment of Christianity would start out with mention of its often overzealous missionary ideas that have resulted in centuries of slavery, adverse colonialism and then a quick reminder of how the desire to spread God's word was the motive force for this. For the moment, I have moved the caste system quotation to the bottom of the section "What is Hinduism," so as to allow for readers to first appraise the RELIGION itself and then perhaps learn of one of its societal ramifications.
I agree, with NPOV conditions. First and foremost caste must not be covered up, and must be explained from differeing POV's, but I do agree it is not necessary to include it in 'what is Hinduism', so long as we can find another way to explain how sometimes the word Hindu is used to refer to a race, and how the word originally was used to describe a certain ethnicity (those on the other side of a river). As for the murtis, you are correct, but there must also be mention of how other religions have viewed these as idols, with clear and unfavorable results. I welcome your additions and changes, be bold!. Sam Spade 18:44, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
As for the comparisons: when you compare the different systems of religions, using analagous ideas or trends, to explain the other, that's fine. For instance, I have mentioned that Hinduism is what is known as a "Dharma" religion, and is related to Buddhism and Jainism not only as their forebearer but also since all three are Dharma-based. They all believe in varying ideas regarding dharma, or universal harmony in consciousness and being. This RELATIONSHIP is just like that among Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are all based on the Abrahaminic tradition of obeying the will of God under a certain lineage of teachings.
The difference between this comparison and that which you have drawn between the Hindu trinity and the Christian trinity is that using one to explain the other shows nothing but the coincidental use of the number three. Whereas the relationship of mutually connective ideas of philosophy among Dharma religions and Abrahamnic religions is similar, Christian and Hindu trilogies are entirely different.
Let me explain why - The Hindu trinity is based on a group of three equal manifestations of a Supreme ONE. Thus, three is subsumed into one. This is represented by AUM (which also represents other trinities at the same time). The roles of creator, preserver and destroyer are all interlinked and dependent on another, each leading to the other and cycling around. When the One subsuming factor is known, these three are transcended. This has little in common with the Christian trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. One is the True and Only God. The second is the representative or issuing of God on earth. The third is the all-pervasive essence of that God. Thus, the latter two are ultimately subservient or, in more neutral terms, reliant on the first, the Father, while the Father is the source of the other two.
In the Hindu trinity, we see that such reliance is not existent. Shaivaite or Vaishnav sects have often used stories to intimate that one God arose from the other, but these are motivated by sectarian ideologies. It is accepted that the Hindu trinity is a level plane of three from One.
Thus, if someone only versed in Christian scriptures, or who knows something about the Christian trinity, were to see your comparison left unexplained, he/she would come away with a wrong-headed understanding of the Hindu trinity dynamic. Your comparison is unfortunately rather random, since unlike the common flood stories of Hinduism and the Abrahaminic traditions, the two trinities don't share anything meaningful or show ANY signs of having arisen from a common root. The Hindu trinity predated that of Christianity by many a century, and its philosophical and theological significance is based on an entirely different framework of thought than the Christian one. I suggest that if Comparative studies be explored, they a) should be put at the end of the page as non-central issues and b) be explained more thoroughly to dispell any potential misconceptions, misreadings or misunderstandings. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:29, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
We need something on this.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:36, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
Works of art, literature and the whole system of Indian music (which is derived entirely from Vedic / Hindu conceptions of sound and philosophy) should be, at least somewhat, mentioned. Like Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost, the spin-off epic poetry of Tulsidas' "Ramcharitmanas" (which is every bit Milton's equal in highfalutin Sanskritized Bengali) and Michael Madhusudan Dutta's "Meghnadh Bodh Kabbo" (The Slaying of Meghnadh) have had great influence on modern conceptions of God. Then, of course, there are classes of devotional songs that are worth exploring, like Krishna Bhajans, Shakta songs (like Ramprasad Sen songs) and others that really capture the Bhakti ethos of Hinduism, which is truly unique and beautiful.
Vedic conceptions of sound have governed everything about what is today called Indian classical music (Hindustani and Carnatic). While the former was certainly influenced by Mughals, the whole system of Sa-Re-Ga, the raagaa and taal conceptions, are all Vedic philosophy. They should be mentioned as they bear heavily on Hindu life.
You removed some writing regarding Brahmans who supposedly focus on Brahman. That is not true. Brahmans do not worship Brahman. Brahmins are PRIESTS or members of the priest caste. It is not a term for their belief. That is why Brahmin, meaning the people, is spelled with an -in to avoid confusion with the formless concept of Divine Truth which is spelled with -an.
Secondly, as for the idol thing, you just went ahead and removed everything I wrote. The representation of murti worship is horribly biased and insulting, moreover WRONG. Unfortunately, you insist that Western views of Hinduism have to be included in the main body, whereas I feel they should be put in a comparative section in the end. It is clearly biased and in addition gives an incorrect view of Hindu beliefs. I have tried to address Western views of HIndu murti worship with NPOV.
OLD While the Brahman Hindus focus mainly on Brahman, and different sects have their own particular patron (such as Krishna), most Hindus worship many Gods, largely through murtis ( idols). Hindus see these Gods as being various manifestations of the one true Brahman (principle, Divine Ground). Thus, Hinduism is alike kabalistic Judaism in being pantheistic. They differ however in that Judaism is seen to be monotheistic, rejecting other gods, while Hinduism interprets its many lesser deities as aspects of God. Note that this is quite different from how Hinduism is general viewed by other faiths, which have traditionally viewed Hinduism as polytheistic.
NEW Hindus who worship the attributeless Brahman are known as nondualists, or Advaitists. Different sects, especially devotional ones, have their own particular supreme godhead (such as Vishnu or [[Shiva, Krishna or Devi). Most Hindus, based on belief of many as one, will often worship many Gods and Goddesses. They are seen as different aspects of the same manifested reality. This worship is largely done through the use of murtis. Murtis are statues or images used as windows or points of devotional and meditational focus. They are sometimes abstract, but more often representations of Gods and Goddesses like Shiva or Ganesh, Ram or Krishna, Saraswati or Kali. The idea that deities are powerful conduits of faith and representations of Truth is known as ishta-devata, or chosen deity. Since the mind is in turbulence (vritti) and unable to focus on the formless God, God is seen in form. Hindus see these Gods as either being various manifestations of the one true formless Brahman (principle, Divine Ground) or ultimate personality of god (seen as Vishnu or Shiva, etc.). Devotional (Bhakti) practices are very centered on cultivating a deep and personal bond of love with god through one of his or her forms, and often makes use of murtis. Thus, Hinduism is alike kabalistic Judaism in being pantheistic. They differ however in that Judaism is seen to be purely monotheistic, rejecting other gods or multiple manifestations of the same God, while Hinduism interprets its many deities as many aspects of the one God. Note that this is quite different from how Hinduism is general viewed by other faiths, which have traditionally viewed Hinduism as polytheistic. Often, murti worship has been construed by Abrahaminic faiths, namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as idolatrous. This view of murtis' being idols implies many erroneous ideas about Hinduism, chiefly that Hindus view the physical statues themselves as being God and thus limit God to a gross, physical format. This is not the case, as Hindus see murtis, like the human body, to be very much material and limited, and understand that they are pathways to finding God, not God him/her/itself. The charge of idolism by largely Western critics has been rebutted with citations of the predominant Hindu belief that world and universe are ultimately finite and limited, and that everything is pervaded by God. Murtis are but one aspect of Hindu modes of worship that see God as everything, whether living or inanimate.
I don't mind your edits at all on first inspection, it looks like you did rather well, but we will need to NPOV the section on caste, which is a bit exaggerated in its renounciation of caste, which is clearly still a powerful force in hindu society. Sam Spade 21:00, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Soon, when I am not as tired, I will start adding sections about the major works of Hinduism, which is important. Works like the Gita Govinda (which as had a huge impact all over India), the Brahma Sutras, the Ramayana and Mahabharata should at least have their own abbreviated section. Major figures are important too, and need more work. People like Adi Shankaracharya, Shri Chaitanya Mahabprabhu, Shri Ramakrishna (and Swami Vivekananda), Mahatma Gandhi, Shri Aurobindo Ghosh, S. Radhakrishnan, etc. have molded modern Hinduism, fleshed it out and reexamined its philosophies, put them into action, in ways that have really affected the faith. They are as central to Hinduism as St. Augustine and Martin Luther were to Christianity. If others could contribute succinct (one fat paragraph?) on these people it would help greatly. Tantric, Shaiva-Shakta traditions. The whole South Indian tradition! We need to have a lot more on these. And need I mention the deeper philosophical and narrative depth of the Puranas? Could someone (I will start slowly) work on talking about THE HUGE importance of Puranic stories and Hindu mythology and how it plays into the faith of Hindus today? Hinduism is a massive faith. It needs more than what we have, which is an excellent but still lacking beginning. I am not a member of Wikipedia, per se, but I have written extensively for it. I can be e-mailed at writetosurya@email.com.
I have removed the comparison of the Hindu trinity to the Christian Trinity. This is not a comparative religion page, nor does Christianity have any connection to Hinduism. Moreover, one does not find references to this parallel in the Christianity page, and it thus seems like a biased, Western-centric view.
Fine... that's great... but rather than delete everything I did and just revert back, change what you don't like and leave the rest in. I have also redone the organization of the "What is Hinduism" section, culling it without taking out anything you wrote but adding alternative views. If you revert to previous formats, could you retain new text and edit gradually?
Also, explain yourself about caste: what would you have? Could you write it here as well and say what you think is exaggerated?
-- LordSuryaofShropshire 21:34, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
"generally not used today except as a racial slur since classing all South Asians, whose faiths include Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism, as Hindoo is baseless stereotyping. Needless to say, the usage of Hindoo as any one of South Asian ancestry is non-existent in the subcontinent itself."
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The edits by user Sam Spade have two problems
1. Hinduism does not constitute an ethnic group. There are lots of ethnic groups among Hindus. Even if one holds with a broad concept that ethnic group refers to shared culture, it is incorrect to use the term ethnic group because culture refers to it better. The comparison to Jews is not parallel to the situation. Indian culture and society are heterogenous. Maybe in today's context the word 'Indian' can refer to ethnicity, however Hindu and Hinduism cannot refer to ethnicity. I hope the difference can be understood.
2. Caste(varna) and race are contentious issues and there is no final word on this subject. What is written about this constitutes POV because it assumes that Hindus accept the caste system as final. If one is familiar with current India related issues then one would be aware that caste issues cause more political and social unrest than religious community issues. So when this still an open-ended situation - in terms of how it evolved, whether it is right or wrong, the motors for changes, and so on, it is not correct to state categorically that Hindus accept everything in a fatalistic manner- that implies an underlying assumption that everything about Hinduism is status quo, which is not the case.
I will wait for the counter for a day before I make any change. KRS 12:12, 20 Mar 2004 (UTC)
I just read this article, because it was nominated to be a featured article. I very much enjoyed it. :) I did notice this sentence which needs fixing though: "God, or Brahman as is commonly referred to, exists in every living being." (I would have done it myself, but I didn't know if I could say "God, or Brahaman as he is commonly referred to, ..." or if it should be rephrased to avoid the pronoun, "God, commonly referred to as Brahamam, ..."). fabiform | talk 03:51, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Hey... I am the unknown user whose new additions/deletions have peppered much of Wikipedia Hindu-related pages recently. My id (ip) was 66.207.39.62, just for reference. Regarding the changes: First off, when we ask "What is Hinduism," Is it fair to represent it first off by caste system? It almost looks like: What is Hinduism: it is said to be a way of life and is largely defined by caste. Wrong. It is a way of life, system of six Vedic philosophies and a variety of practices. One unfortunate offshoot was a communal system created based on largely deliberate misreadings of varna-ashram concepts (that advocated social mobility). This has become caste, but is not a defining factor of Hinduism, but rather a defining factor of Hindu Society. There's a big difference. Rather, we should define it based on the broader theology and belief system and later move on to societal norms. I have addressed caste system later, but the prelude to Hinduism seems to paint it solely as caste system. Equivalent treatment of Christianity would start out with mention of its often overzealous missionary ideas that have resulted in centuries of slavery, adverse colonialism and then a quick reminder of how the desire to spread God's word was the motive force for this. For the moment, I have moved the caste system quotation to the bottom of the section "What is Hinduism," so as to allow for readers to first appraise the RELIGION itself and then perhaps learn of one of its societal ramifications.
I agree, with NPOV conditions. First and foremost caste must not be covered up, and must be explained from differeing POV's, but I do agree it is not necessary to include it in 'what is Hinduism', so long as we can find another way to explain how sometimes the word Hindu is used to refer to a race, and how the word originally was used to describe a certain ethnicity (those on the other side of a river). As for the murtis, you are correct, but there must also be mention of how other religions have viewed these as idols, with clear and unfavorable results. I welcome your additions and changes, be bold!. Sam Spade 18:44, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
As for the comparisons: when you compare the different systems of religions, using analagous ideas or trends, to explain the other, that's fine. For instance, I have mentioned that Hinduism is what is known as a "Dharma" religion, and is related to Buddhism and Jainism not only as their forebearer but also since all three are Dharma-based. They all believe in varying ideas regarding dharma, or universal harmony in consciousness and being. This RELATIONSHIP is just like that among Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are all based on the Abrahaminic tradition of obeying the will of God under a certain lineage of teachings.
The difference between this comparison and that which you have drawn between the Hindu trinity and the Christian trinity is that using one to explain the other shows nothing but the coincidental use of the number three. Whereas the relationship of mutually connective ideas of philosophy among Dharma religions and Abrahamnic religions is similar, Christian and Hindu trilogies are entirely different.
Let me explain why - The Hindu trinity is based on a group of three equal manifestations of a Supreme ONE. Thus, three is subsumed into one. This is represented by AUM (which also represents other trinities at the same time). The roles of creator, preserver and destroyer are all interlinked and dependent on another, each leading to the other and cycling around. When the One subsuming factor is known, these three are transcended. This has little in common with the Christian trinity. The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. One is the True and Only God. The second is the representative or issuing of God on earth. The third is the all-pervasive essence of that God. Thus, the latter two are ultimately subservient or, in more neutral terms, reliant on the first, the Father, while the Father is the source of the other two.
In the Hindu trinity, we see that such reliance is not existent. Shaivaite or Vaishnav sects have often used stories to intimate that one God arose from the other, but these are motivated by sectarian ideologies. It is accepted that the Hindu trinity is a level plane of three from One.
Thus, if someone only versed in Christian scriptures, or who knows something about the Christian trinity, were to see your comparison left unexplained, he/she would come away with a wrong-headed understanding of the Hindu trinity dynamic. Your comparison is unfortunately rather random, since unlike the common flood stories of Hinduism and the Abrahaminic traditions, the two trinities don't share anything meaningful or show ANY signs of having arisen from a common root. The Hindu trinity predated that of Christianity by many a century, and its philosophical and theological significance is based on an entirely different framework of thought than the Christian one. I suggest that if Comparative studies be explored, they a) should be put at the end of the page as non-central issues and b) be explained more thoroughly to dispell any potential misconceptions, misreadings or misunderstandings. -- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:29, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
We need something on this.-- LordSuryaofShropshire 17:36, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
Works of art, literature and the whole system of Indian music (which is derived entirely from Vedic / Hindu conceptions of sound and philosophy) should be, at least somewhat, mentioned. Like Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost, the spin-off epic poetry of Tulsidas' "Ramcharitmanas" (which is every bit Milton's equal in highfalutin Sanskritized Bengali) and Michael Madhusudan Dutta's "Meghnadh Bodh Kabbo" (The Slaying of Meghnadh) have had great influence on modern conceptions of God. Then, of course, there are classes of devotional songs that are worth exploring, like Krishna Bhajans, Shakta songs (like Ramprasad Sen songs) and others that really capture the Bhakti ethos of Hinduism, which is truly unique and beautiful.
Vedic conceptions of sound have governed everything about what is today called Indian classical music (Hindustani and Carnatic). While the former was certainly influenced by Mughals, the whole system of Sa-Re-Ga, the raagaa and taal conceptions, are all Vedic philosophy. They should be mentioned as they bear heavily on Hindu life.
You removed some writing regarding Brahmans who supposedly focus on Brahman. That is not true. Brahmans do not worship Brahman. Brahmins are PRIESTS or members of the priest caste. It is not a term for their belief. That is why Brahmin, meaning the people, is spelled with an -in to avoid confusion with the formless concept of Divine Truth which is spelled with -an.
Secondly, as for the idol thing, you just went ahead and removed everything I wrote. The representation of murti worship is horribly biased and insulting, moreover WRONG. Unfortunately, you insist that Western views of Hinduism have to be included in the main body, whereas I feel they should be put in a comparative section in the end. It is clearly biased and in addition gives an incorrect view of Hindu beliefs. I have tried to address Western views of HIndu murti worship with NPOV.
OLD While the Brahman Hindus focus mainly on Brahman, and different sects have their own particular patron (such as Krishna), most Hindus worship many Gods, largely through murtis ( idols). Hindus see these Gods as being various manifestations of the one true Brahman (principle, Divine Ground). Thus, Hinduism is alike kabalistic Judaism in being pantheistic. They differ however in that Judaism is seen to be monotheistic, rejecting other gods, while Hinduism interprets its many lesser deities as aspects of God. Note that this is quite different from how Hinduism is general viewed by other faiths, which have traditionally viewed Hinduism as polytheistic.
NEW Hindus who worship the attributeless Brahman are known as nondualists, or Advaitists. Different sects, especially devotional ones, have their own particular supreme godhead (such as Vishnu or [[Shiva, Krishna or Devi). Most Hindus, based on belief of many as one, will often worship many Gods and Goddesses. They are seen as different aspects of the same manifested reality. This worship is largely done through the use of murtis. Murtis are statues or images used as windows or points of devotional and meditational focus. They are sometimes abstract, but more often representations of Gods and Goddesses like Shiva or Ganesh, Ram or Krishna, Saraswati or Kali. The idea that deities are powerful conduits of faith and representations of Truth is known as ishta-devata, or chosen deity. Since the mind is in turbulence (vritti) and unable to focus on the formless God, God is seen in form. Hindus see these Gods as either being various manifestations of the one true formless Brahman (principle, Divine Ground) or ultimate personality of god (seen as Vishnu or Shiva, etc.). Devotional (Bhakti) practices are very centered on cultivating a deep and personal bond of love with god through one of his or her forms, and often makes use of murtis. Thus, Hinduism is alike kabalistic Judaism in being pantheistic. They differ however in that Judaism is seen to be purely monotheistic, rejecting other gods or multiple manifestations of the same God, while Hinduism interprets its many deities as many aspects of the one God. Note that this is quite different from how Hinduism is general viewed by other faiths, which have traditionally viewed Hinduism as polytheistic. Often, murti worship has been construed by Abrahaminic faiths, namely Judaism, Christianity and Islam, as idolatrous. This view of murtis' being idols implies many erroneous ideas about Hinduism, chiefly that Hindus view the physical statues themselves as being God and thus limit God to a gross, physical format. This is not the case, as Hindus see murtis, like the human body, to be very much material and limited, and understand that they are pathways to finding God, not God him/her/itself. The charge of idolism by largely Western critics has been rebutted with citations of the predominant Hindu belief that world and universe are ultimately finite and limited, and that everything is pervaded by God. Murtis are but one aspect of Hindu modes of worship that see God as everything, whether living or inanimate.
I don't mind your edits at all on first inspection, it looks like you did rather well, but we will need to NPOV the section on caste, which is a bit exaggerated in its renounciation of caste, which is clearly still a powerful force in hindu society. Sam Spade 21:00, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Soon, when I am not as tired, I will start adding sections about the major works of Hinduism, which is important. Works like the Gita Govinda (which as had a huge impact all over India), the Brahma Sutras, the Ramayana and Mahabharata should at least have their own abbreviated section. Major figures are important too, and need more work. People like Adi Shankaracharya, Shri Chaitanya Mahabprabhu, Shri Ramakrishna (and Swami Vivekananda), Mahatma Gandhi, Shri Aurobindo Ghosh, S. Radhakrishnan, etc. have molded modern Hinduism, fleshed it out and reexamined its philosophies, put them into action, in ways that have really affected the faith. They are as central to Hinduism as St. Augustine and Martin Luther were to Christianity. If others could contribute succinct (one fat paragraph?) on these people it would help greatly. Tantric, Shaiva-Shakta traditions. The whole South Indian tradition! We need to have a lot more on these. And need I mention the deeper philosophical and narrative depth of the Puranas? Could someone (I will start slowly) work on talking about THE HUGE importance of Puranic stories and Hindu mythology and how it plays into the faith of Hindus today? Hinduism is a massive faith. It needs more than what we have, which is an excellent but still lacking beginning. I am not a member of Wikipedia, per se, but I have written extensively for it. I can be e-mailed at writetosurya@email.com.
I have removed the comparison of the Hindu trinity to the Christian Trinity. This is not a comparative religion page, nor does Christianity have any connection to Hinduism. Moreover, one does not find references to this parallel in the Christianity page, and it thus seems like a biased, Western-centric view.
Fine... that's great... but rather than delete everything I did and just revert back, change what you don't like and leave the rest in. I have also redone the organization of the "What is Hinduism" section, culling it without taking out anything you wrote but adding alternative views. If you revert to previous formats, could you retain new text and edit gradually?
Also, explain yourself about caste: what would you have? Could you write it here as well and say what you think is exaggerated?
-- LordSuryaofShropshire 21:34, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
"generally not used today except as a racial slur since classing all South Asians, whose faiths include Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity and Zoroastrianism, as Hindoo is baseless stereotyping. Needless to say, the usage of Hindoo as any one of South Asian ancestry is non-existent in the subcontinent itself."