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Archive 1 |
Could someone review the section on the Hindu tradition in ethics? It might better be called Indian tradition since Moghul/Muslim emperors, Jains, etc., and other traditions had much influence, and also since Mohandas Gandhi is so prominent as an ethicists - not everyone thinks he's a Hindu. Right now that page is protected so talk:ethics is a good place to propose rewrites of that section. Thanks.
--
Also, the primary article title should be Hindu philosophy, without a capital "P". This is not a proper noun. The most prominent book by that name can be at Hindu Philosophy, and if there is no consensus, then, it must be a redirect here or at Hindu Philosophy (book). Thanks.
I'm trying to work out in my mind where
Shaiva Siddhanta tradition fits in with the other strands of Hindu philosophy. Can this be addressed?
Quartier
Latin1968
21:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
The problem isn't syntax, etc., but tone and style; the article is full of material like: "The philosophical and theological diversity of Hinduism is limitless, being nurtured by the fundamentally eclectic and liberal universalism that is its defining characteristic." It needs to be rewritten in prose that's less purple. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I copy-edited quite a bit here and reordered the schools of thought so that they matched with the text. (For example, we read about the "Yoga offshoot" and the next school mentioned is Yoga.) Where these in any particular order before - importance or something? Also, I noticed that the Mimamsa article is cut-pasted into this one - if Mimamsa won't be expanded it should probably be deleted. -- will 00:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised tantra isn't covered here. It certainly is an important part of many a Hindu tradition and should not be omitted. I'm probably not the best person to write it, but I hope somebody will. -- Snowgrouse 02:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Ans: Tantra is not classified as a philosophy. Philosophy by necessity must be a conclusion reached by argument. Tantra is a important part of tradition but not everything associated with religion can be clubbed as philosophy.
Mr. Snowgrouse, you are right. As a hindu from india i see this article as a propaganda of hindu fundamentalists such as RSS(similar to kkk), BJP, VHP. Probably their texts have been lifted & pasted here. For a critical review of hinduism see this http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/
-- Anirudh777 10:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
why there is no mention of Nastik darshans. i can claim myself an athiest and still be a hindu. if nobody else has a prob. can i add a article or two about athiestic darshans like charvak. nids 21:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
see, charvaka and jainism are under athiestic darshans of hinduism and are wrongly just listed under indian philosophy. i know about hindu philosophy because my mom is a Ph.D. in Sanskrit on the topic of Shad darshan and i still have a copy of her thiesis. i m goin to add that part here myself, but just waitin for any suggestions or objections. nids 19:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I will be editing this article off and on today, so my apologies if this causes any edit conflicts. I usually do one aspect of grammar, style, format, etc. at a time for the whole document. Shawn Fitzgibbons 19:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I have edited the article up to Advaita, and I'm done for the day. I will continue tomorrow. Shawn Fitzgibbons 22:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I've tried to make this article as consistent as possible with articles it links to in wikipedia. If you absolutely must make changes to the content of the article, please try to find references to support your contention. I'm also glad to discuss any philosophical opinions you may have on my talk page. SFinside 14:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
In the formal sense of the orthodox Yogic school, the primary text is the Yoga Sutras, which developed a lot of the strains of Upanishadic thought and the seminal teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. The Bhagavad Gita is the main text only in conjunction with the Yoga Sutras and this should be more clearly highlighted in this explanation to maintain accuracy and, additionally, proper coordination with the main Yoga article. -- 68.173.46.79 21:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and Jnana Yoga have good links and are well described. But Buddhi Yoga isn't. I removed the link to Buddhi only , because it is not explaining Buddhi Yoga at all, and it is better to have a void link than a misleading link. Perhaps Buddhi Yoga needs to be stricken? What about Raja Yoga which the other three pages do mention? Gschadow 22:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
What does this mean?
Can people please begin to critically support such datings? With the Rig Veda dated about 1500 BCE, which is 3500 years ago, how can an Upanishad, even if it's an Upanishad associated with the Rig Veda Samhita, be dated as far back as that? Thanks. Gschadow 22:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I propose that brahminism be deleted from the introduction. It is a european term unintelligible to hindus. In europe, the protestants saw catholic priests as the ones who corrupted God's true message. When these very protestants came as colonisers to India, they saw hindu religion with the same model and saw brahmins as the "priests" that corrupted God's true message and transformed hinduism into paganism. But this view makes no sense to hindus. There is no term Brahmana dharma or brahmanatva. Brahminism is just a european ideological term and not a translation of any equivalent sanskrit word. I propose to delete it under NPOV -- SV 20:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to reduce forking between this article and Indian philosophy which of necessity covers much of the same ground, being a superset of Hindu philosphy? Buddhipriya 19:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I actually don't see Indian philosophy and Hindu philosophy as forks. Rather the two articles discuss related issues at different resolutions/depths, with the latter subject being the most prominent component of the former. Continuing down the chain (or more accurately tree) are articles on individual schools of Hindu philosophy and going up, are more general articles on philosophy. This non-linear, multi-resolution structure is IMO a distinct advantage rather than a problem, since it allows the reader to choose the depth to which he/she wants to study a topic. We simply need to ensure that the "Hindu Philosophy section" of the Indian philosophy article is an accurate summary of the topic discussed in this article - but that is an issue handled regularly on wikipedia when dealing with topics of sufficient breadth. Abecedare 20:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not really convinced at having Raja Yoga as the main link under Yoga? Either the section needs to be re-written to explain things more clearly, or surely the main Yoga link is more appropriate? Anyone else think differently? Gouranga(UK) 10:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. Some of the most significant parts of the Hindu philosophical thinking are missing from the list. Is Tantra not a part of the Hindu philosophy? It is also missing in the parallel article Indian philosophy. Also, Kashmir Shaivism and other forms of Shaivism and Shaktism. Am I correct to think they should be added sometimes in the future (soon hopefully)? Visarga 16:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Shoudn't they be under the people/ancient section? 24.10.195.188 ( talk) 10:12, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Vi
Section Samkhya says:
Eeeh... "Mind" is just a rewording of "soul", and "body" shall not be interpreted literally in the phrase "mind and body". The phrase "mind and body" actually means "soul and matter", not "brain-substance and the rest of the body". ... said: Rursus ( bork²) 16:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
The article speaks of darsanas and not indian philosophy, so that requires a change of name.. Also, needs more citations and formatting. The six darsanas are traditionally accepted but needs better citation. I'll try revise some parts of the article if others don't mind. leaflord ( talk) 15:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
In looking at various Wikipedia articles on Hindu philosophy, I noticed that the dates for Aksapada Gautama range from 6th century BC (e.g., List of Hindus), to 2nd century BC (e.g., this article) to 2nd century AD (e.g., Nyāya Sūtras). The only dates that seem to be given a reference are the 2nd century AD ones. Does anyone know what the currently accepted dates are for him?
All the best. – Syncategoremata ( talk) 15:32, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Why can't we start the introduction of Samkhya with referring to Sage Kapila and his texts? We have not mentioned about anything in this Samkhya section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krish rdkb ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
This section is not written from a neutral point of view and it missed all essential teachings of "Advaita Vedanta".
1. "He saw this form as that of Vishnu."
- This point is not agreeable, if the word "Vishnu" means some particular, individual God having a form. Adi Shankracharya, always equated "Vishnu" to "Brahman". The word "Vishnu" means: "He who pervades every thing". He always negated that "Brahman" is having any particular form.
2. "Ishvara is the manifestation of Brahman to human minds under the influence of an illusionary power called Avidya."
- This is not entirely correct. Ishvara is not due to "Avidya" but due to "Maya". The difference between "Avidya" and "Maya" is: "Avidya" is individual ignorance, where as "Maya" is collective ignorance. So, when one removes his/her own "Avidya", world doesn't disappear as "Maya" still persists for others.
3. "The main confusion is that when the advaita/advaitis believe Lord Shiva as the greatest, how do they chant "Bhaja Govindam" which is in praise of Lord Vishnu."
- This is absolute non-sense. This sentence is a misfit and without any citation. It is not a piece of information but a question. Perhaps this question has been posed by a "Vaishnava follower". I do not object to any such discussions, but it should not be done in the main article. Adviata Vendanta proclaims the supremacy of "Bramhan". The names like "Siva" and "Vishnu" are synonymous (see Vishnu Sahashra naama) and point to same ultimate reality.
1. "Brahman" is the only basic principle which is "Sat", i.e. which exists independently in all the time without any change.
2. The entire world and all the dualities are due to "Maya". "Maya" is the illusionary and creative aspect of "Brahman", and it is neither existent nor non-existent, but appears to exist temporarily. As the basis of any illusionary object is a true and self-existing object, similarly the basis of "Maya" is the never changing "Brahman".
3. There is no non-existing principle or "Asat", ever exists. So, "Maya" is not "non-existent".
4. Individual soul and the supreme Brahman are one and the same. The seeming duality is because of "Avidya" or ignorance. When the ignorance is removed only one reality remains.
5. In the field of Maya, the supreme can be viewed by the individual soul as "Ishwara". Worshiping Ishwara with devotion, subsequently leads to mental purification, which is the indirect cause of removal of ignorance.
6. The only direct cause of removal of ignorance of duality is "Atma Vidya" or Self-knowledge.
Sabyasachi Mishra ( talk) 06:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC) Sabyasachi Mishra
I think we need a fresh look at the Samkya Philosophy and its semantics; The argument of disbelieving in God by Samkhya School is untenable. The said reference in the main article could be just authors interpretation of text in isolated context. The best story which I remember comes from Rudra Samhita of Shiv Purana where Goddess Parvati had a long discussion with Lord Shiv on his or her existence in this creation and their intermigling roles; this details the very existence of samkhya school and its teachings. Avid reader may verify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.101.171 ( talk) 10:25, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This is a translation of verses from the Samkhya Karika:
... these, however, do not allude to an eternal, uncaused Isvara (God), but are only eulogies of such Jivas or Incarnate Selves as are going to be freed, or of the Yogins, human as well as super-human, who have attained perfection by the practice of Yoga. (I. 95)
Neither is the existence of God as the moral governor of the world, proved; for, if God Himself produce the consequences of acts, He would do so even without the aid of Karma; on the other hand, if His agency in this respect be subsidiary to that of Karma, then let Karma itself be the cause of its consequences; what is the use of a God? (V. 2-9)
Please note how God and Isvara are used interchangeably by the translator (N. Sinha). Same is true of many other scholars. If you have a reference which does not translate Isvara as God please share it here. Otherwise, I don't see what we can do here. Correct Knowledge «৳alk» 18:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
The sentence you've removed for the fourth time [9] is reliably referenced and therefore meets Wikipedia's verifiability policy. The burden is on you to give adequate reasons for removing it. Please self–revert your last edit, there is no point in edit warring. I've tried my best to convince you with references (7 of them) and with verses from the Samkhyakarika, in my previous posts. As such, I can always provide more references for this sentence (see another one). However, I doubt this will convince you. Please note, I did not write this sentence and am open to rewording it provided you make reasonable arguments backed by reliable sources. However, if you continue to remove referenced content like this, sooner or later you'll attract stricter action. Regards. Correct Knowledge «৳alk» 07:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
I went through the entire sections of this page and related contents and found that people are posting their own researchs and opinions about Indian Philosophy and different schools of thought without heeding the real contents of the matter and context. Since philosophy is a subject of interpretations, this main page about Indian Philosophy must embrace a rationale and unbiased view of the contents and should posit the provenance of philosophy and a genesis of different schools bringing all the schools under one umbrella. 59.95.101.171 ( talk) 11:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I entirely agree with your opinion. Every contributer should write from a neutral point if view in the "Article" page. The sections should be informative and all the important aspects should be covered (in brief of course). The statements like "Dvaita is undoubtedly the greatest philosophy because after the introduction of Dvaita, there is no other philosophy which is in contrary to it."(in the section Advaita) clearly shows the biased judgement of the contributer and Wikipedia is not the right place to advocate the supremacy of one's own person belief. The article should be written in such a manner that, it can clearly convey the important aspects of all major philosophical schools of Hinduism and the similarities and the dissimilarities among them should be apparent; without saying which one is contributer's favorite. Sabyasachi Mishra ( talk) 06:23, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Could something like this be helpful for this article? Wiki-uk ( talk) 13:52, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
There has been a perennial debate (since long time) whether Hinduism is a monotheist, or polytheist or atheist religion. Hinduism is actually an 'Infinito-Theist' religion. As per Hindu texts like vedas and upanishads god is 'anaadi' and 'annant', i.e. infinite and non quantifiable. When we say God is one, or more than one , we are trying to quantify and measure the god. Even when we say there is no God or Zero God , we are doing the same. But as per original Hindu philosophy, God is non quantifiable i.e it cannot be measured. God is Infinite in terms of proportion, size, span, even in time. Infinity of God also signifies infinite possibilites of God. Thus One God, Two God, 33 Crore Gods, No God are actually various possibilites and aspects of Infinite God. As per Hindu philosophy god is also omnipresent, permeates through out the entire Universe and is present in each and every particle, space and wave present in universe (Kan Kan may Ishwar Vidyaman) i.e infinite in span. That's why Hindus can worship the entire universe. Depending on his capacity, capability and personal interest a Hindu can worship idols, animals, living persons, dead persons, as god lies in virtually everything. Thus, Hinduism is the only religion in the world to recognise monotheism, polytheism, atheism, agnosticism, animism etc. This feature makes it a mother of all religions. Thus a Hindu can be an athiest, like Kapil Muni. Hindus are permitted to dismiss, criticise or even reject any of its sacred texts and yet remain a Hindu. For example, Chaarwak rejected Vedas, yet he remained a Hindu. One more intersting thing I would like to add, that every knows Hindus have invented Zero. But only few people knows that Hindus have also invented Infinity. So, lets promote Hinduism as Infinito-Theist Religion.- Rajesh Kumar69 ( talk) 05:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Unlike semetic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are "absolutist'religions, Hinduism is Quantum-Relativisic religion. As per Hinduism, truth depends on the viewers, i.e. truth for one person can be falsehood for second person and half truth for third person, which can be called as Quantum View point.For as per Hinduism there is nothing like absolute truth or perfection. Truth or Perfection are always compartive in nature, i.e Relativistic view point. Thus as per Hinduism even God is infallible.This Quantum-Relativity of Hinduism not only make it tolerent ,but also enable it to continously redefine itself. This ability of redifine itself has made it worlds oldest surving and flourishing religion.This Quantum-Relativity also makes it an Unorganized relgion, a reilgion without central authority, numerous books, numerous contradictory ideologies and sects etc.Actually, it is not a single religion, but a cofedration or conglomeration of numerous and ever increasing religions , originated at differnt time, and amalgamated with mainstream Hinuism, while retaining thier original character. In Fact notion of mainstream Hinduism has also changed from time to time.Thus, it is World's only Unorganized Relgion, which makes it unique and great. Rajesh Kumar69 ( talk) 06:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think that the section on philosophy in Historical Vedic religion should be imported and merged into this article. CorrectKnowledge ( talk) 18:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree, it seems to fit very much with this topic. Adelle Frank ( talk) 16:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I would like to talk about the use of unambiguous Sanskrit transliteration here and in general on Wikipedia. Would this be the right place? Personally I'm very much in favour of having the IAST spelling. All over if possible, maybe not for lemmas in real general use as nirvāṇa or so, but why not? I see no reason to not have Nyāya, Vaiśeṣika, Vaiśeṣika Sūtra and other lemma's. A reference text necessarily must use precise, unambiguous transliteration, so it often even includes Devanāgarī for more options. Wakari07 ( talk) 22:00, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Could someone review the section on the Hindu tradition in ethics? It might better be called Indian tradition since Moghul/Muslim emperors, Jains, etc., and other traditions had much influence, and also since Mohandas Gandhi is so prominent as an ethicists - not everyone thinks he's a Hindu. Right now that page is protected so talk:ethics is a good place to propose rewrites of that section. Thanks.
--
Also, the primary article title should be Hindu philosophy, without a capital "P". This is not a proper noun. The most prominent book by that name can be at Hindu Philosophy, and if there is no consensus, then, it must be a redirect here or at Hindu Philosophy (book). Thanks.
I'm trying to work out in my mind where
Shaiva Siddhanta tradition fits in with the other strands of Hindu philosophy. Can this be addressed?
Quartier
Latin1968
21:29, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
The problem isn't syntax, etc., but tone and style; the article is full of material like: "The philosophical and theological diversity of Hinduism is limitless, being nurtured by the fundamentally eclectic and liberal universalism that is its defining characteristic." It needs to be rewritten in prose that's less purple. -- Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
I copy-edited quite a bit here and reordered the schools of thought so that they matched with the text. (For example, we read about the "Yoga offshoot" and the next school mentioned is Yoga.) Where these in any particular order before - importance or something? Also, I noticed that the Mimamsa article is cut-pasted into this one - if Mimamsa won't be expanded it should probably be deleted. -- will 00:41, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised tantra isn't covered here. It certainly is an important part of many a Hindu tradition and should not be omitted. I'm probably not the best person to write it, but I hope somebody will. -- Snowgrouse 02:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Ans: Tantra is not classified as a philosophy. Philosophy by necessity must be a conclusion reached by argument. Tantra is a important part of tradition but not everything associated with religion can be clubbed as philosophy.
Mr. Snowgrouse, you are right. As a hindu from india i see this article as a propaganda of hindu fundamentalists such as RSS(similar to kkk), BJP, VHP. Probably their texts have been lifted & pasted here. For a critical review of hinduism see this http://www.ambedkar.org/ambcd/
-- Anirudh777 10:41, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
why there is no mention of Nastik darshans. i can claim myself an athiest and still be a hindu. if nobody else has a prob. can i add a article or two about athiestic darshans like charvak. nids 21:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
see, charvaka and jainism are under athiestic darshans of hinduism and are wrongly just listed under indian philosophy. i know about hindu philosophy because my mom is a Ph.D. in Sanskrit on the topic of Shad darshan and i still have a copy of her thiesis. i m goin to add that part here myself, but just waitin for any suggestions or objections. nids 19:31, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I will be editing this article off and on today, so my apologies if this causes any edit conflicts. I usually do one aspect of grammar, style, format, etc. at a time for the whole document. Shawn Fitzgibbons 19:29, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I have edited the article up to Advaita, and I'm done for the day. I will continue tomorrow. Shawn Fitzgibbons 22:42, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I've tried to make this article as consistent as possible with articles it links to in wikipedia. If you absolutely must make changes to the content of the article, please try to find references to support your contention. I'm also glad to discuss any philosophical opinions you may have on my talk page. SFinside 14:08, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
In the formal sense of the orthodox Yogic school, the primary text is the Yoga Sutras, which developed a lot of the strains of Upanishadic thought and the seminal teachings of the Bhagavad Gita. The Bhagavad Gita is the main text only in conjunction with the Yoga Sutras and this should be more clearly highlighted in this explanation to maintain accuracy and, additionally, proper coordination with the main Yoga article. -- 68.173.46.79 21:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Karma Yoga, Bhakti Yoga, and Jnana Yoga have good links and are well described. But Buddhi Yoga isn't. I removed the link to Buddhi only , because it is not explaining Buddhi Yoga at all, and it is better to have a void link than a misleading link. Perhaps Buddhi Yoga needs to be stricken? What about Raja Yoga which the other three pages do mention? Gschadow 22:01, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
What does this mean?
Can people please begin to critically support such datings? With the Rig Veda dated about 1500 BCE, which is 3500 years ago, how can an Upanishad, even if it's an Upanishad associated with the Rig Veda Samhita, be dated as far back as that? Thanks. Gschadow 22:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I propose that brahminism be deleted from the introduction. It is a european term unintelligible to hindus. In europe, the protestants saw catholic priests as the ones who corrupted God's true message. When these very protestants came as colonisers to India, they saw hindu religion with the same model and saw brahmins as the "priests" that corrupted God's true message and transformed hinduism into paganism. But this view makes no sense to hindus. There is no term Brahmana dharma or brahmanatva. Brahminism is just a european ideological term and not a translation of any equivalent sanskrit word. I propose to delete it under NPOV -- SV 20:22, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone have a good suggestion on how to reduce forking between this article and Indian philosophy which of necessity covers much of the same ground, being a superset of Hindu philosphy? Buddhipriya 19:37, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
I actually don't see Indian philosophy and Hindu philosophy as forks. Rather the two articles discuss related issues at different resolutions/depths, with the latter subject being the most prominent component of the former. Continuing down the chain (or more accurately tree) are articles on individual schools of Hindu philosophy and going up, are more general articles on philosophy. This non-linear, multi-resolution structure is IMO a distinct advantage rather than a problem, since it allows the reader to choose the depth to which he/she wants to study a topic. We simply need to ensure that the "Hindu Philosophy section" of the Indian philosophy article is an accurate summary of the topic discussed in this article - but that is an issue handled regularly on wikipedia when dealing with topics of sufficient breadth. Abecedare 20:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
I'm not really convinced at having Raja Yoga as the main link under Yoga? Either the section needs to be re-written to explain things more clearly, or surely the main Yoga link is more appropriate? Anyone else think differently? Gouranga(UK) 10:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. Some of the most significant parts of the Hindu philosophical thinking are missing from the list. Is Tantra not a part of the Hindu philosophy? It is also missing in the parallel article Indian philosophy. Also, Kashmir Shaivism and other forms of Shaivism and Shaktism. Am I correct to think they should be added sometimes in the future (soon hopefully)? Visarga 16:14, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
Shoudn't they be under the people/ancient section? 24.10.195.188 ( talk) 10:12, 23 December 2007 (UTC)Vi
Section Samkhya says:
Eeeh... "Mind" is just a rewording of "soul", and "body" shall not be interpreted literally in the phrase "mind and body". The phrase "mind and body" actually means "soul and matter", not "brain-substance and the rest of the body". ... said: Rursus ( bork²) 16:56, 29 March 2009 (UTC)
The article speaks of darsanas and not indian philosophy, so that requires a change of name.. Also, needs more citations and formatting. The six darsanas are traditionally accepted but needs better citation. I'll try revise some parts of the article if others don't mind. leaflord ( talk) 15:01, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
In looking at various Wikipedia articles on Hindu philosophy, I noticed that the dates for Aksapada Gautama range from 6th century BC (e.g., List of Hindus), to 2nd century BC (e.g., this article) to 2nd century AD (e.g., Nyāya Sūtras). The only dates that seem to be given a reference are the 2nd century AD ones. Does anyone know what the currently accepted dates are for him?
All the best. – Syncategoremata ( talk) 15:32, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
Why can't we start the introduction of Samkhya with referring to Sage Kapila and his texts? We have not mentioned about anything in this Samkhya section! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Krish rdkb ( talk • contribs) 08:49, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
This section is not written from a neutral point of view and it missed all essential teachings of "Advaita Vedanta".
1. "He saw this form as that of Vishnu."
- This point is not agreeable, if the word "Vishnu" means some particular, individual God having a form. Adi Shankracharya, always equated "Vishnu" to "Brahman". The word "Vishnu" means: "He who pervades every thing". He always negated that "Brahman" is having any particular form.
2. "Ishvara is the manifestation of Brahman to human minds under the influence of an illusionary power called Avidya."
- This is not entirely correct. Ishvara is not due to "Avidya" but due to "Maya". The difference between "Avidya" and "Maya" is: "Avidya" is individual ignorance, where as "Maya" is collective ignorance. So, when one removes his/her own "Avidya", world doesn't disappear as "Maya" still persists for others.
3. "The main confusion is that when the advaita/advaitis believe Lord Shiva as the greatest, how do they chant "Bhaja Govindam" which is in praise of Lord Vishnu."
- This is absolute non-sense. This sentence is a misfit and without any citation. It is not a piece of information but a question. Perhaps this question has been posed by a "Vaishnava follower". I do not object to any such discussions, but it should not be done in the main article. Adviata Vendanta proclaims the supremacy of "Bramhan". The names like "Siva" and "Vishnu" are synonymous (see Vishnu Sahashra naama) and point to same ultimate reality.
1. "Brahman" is the only basic principle which is "Sat", i.e. which exists independently in all the time without any change.
2. The entire world and all the dualities are due to "Maya". "Maya" is the illusionary and creative aspect of "Brahman", and it is neither existent nor non-existent, but appears to exist temporarily. As the basis of any illusionary object is a true and self-existing object, similarly the basis of "Maya" is the never changing "Brahman".
3. There is no non-existing principle or "Asat", ever exists. So, "Maya" is not "non-existent".
4. Individual soul and the supreme Brahman are one and the same. The seeming duality is because of "Avidya" or ignorance. When the ignorance is removed only one reality remains.
5. In the field of Maya, the supreme can be viewed by the individual soul as "Ishwara". Worshiping Ishwara with devotion, subsequently leads to mental purification, which is the indirect cause of removal of ignorance.
6. The only direct cause of removal of ignorance of duality is "Atma Vidya" or Self-knowledge.
Sabyasachi Mishra ( talk) 06:09, 17 January 2011 (UTC) Sabyasachi Mishra
I think we need a fresh look at the Samkya Philosophy and its semantics; The argument of disbelieving in God by Samkhya School is untenable. The said reference in the main article could be just authors interpretation of text in isolated context. The best story which I remember comes from Rudra Samhita of Shiv Purana where Goddess Parvati had a long discussion with Lord Shiv on his or her existence in this creation and their intermigling roles; this details the very existence of samkhya school and its teachings. Avid reader may verify. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.101.171 ( talk) 10:25, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
This is a translation of verses from the Samkhya Karika:
... these, however, do not allude to an eternal, uncaused Isvara (God), but are only eulogies of such Jivas or Incarnate Selves as are going to be freed, or of the Yogins, human as well as super-human, who have attained perfection by the practice of Yoga. (I. 95)
Neither is the existence of God as the moral governor of the world, proved; for, if God Himself produce the consequences of acts, He would do so even without the aid of Karma; on the other hand, if His agency in this respect be subsidiary to that of Karma, then let Karma itself be the cause of its consequences; what is the use of a God? (V. 2-9)
Please note how God and Isvara are used interchangeably by the translator (N. Sinha). Same is true of many other scholars. If you have a reference which does not translate Isvara as God please share it here. Otherwise, I don't see what we can do here. Correct Knowledge «৳alk» 18:34, 18 September 2012 (UTC)
The sentence you've removed for the fourth time [9] is reliably referenced and therefore meets Wikipedia's verifiability policy. The burden is on you to give adequate reasons for removing it. Please self–revert your last edit, there is no point in edit warring. I've tried my best to convince you with references (7 of them) and with verses from the Samkhyakarika, in my previous posts. As such, I can always provide more references for this sentence (see another one). However, I doubt this will convince you. Please note, I did not write this sentence and am open to rewording it provided you make reasonable arguments backed by reliable sources. However, if you continue to remove referenced content like this, sooner or later you'll attract stricter action. Regards. Correct Knowledge «৳alk» 07:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
I went through the entire sections of this page and related contents and found that people are posting their own researchs and opinions about Indian Philosophy and different schools of thought without heeding the real contents of the matter and context. Since philosophy is a subject of interpretations, this main page about Indian Philosophy must embrace a rationale and unbiased view of the contents and should posit the provenance of philosophy and a genesis of different schools bringing all the schools under one umbrella. 59.95.101.171 ( talk) 11:11, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
I entirely agree with your opinion. Every contributer should write from a neutral point if view in the "Article" page. The sections should be informative and all the important aspects should be covered (in brief of course). The statements like "Dvaita is undoubtedly the greatest philosophy because after the introduction of Dvaita, there is no other philosophy which is in contrary to it."(in the section Advaita) clearly shows the biased judgement of the contributer and Wikipedia is not the right place to advocate the supremacy of one's own person belief. The article should be written in such a manner that, it can clearly convey the important aspects of all major philosophical schools of Hinduism and the similarities and the dissimilarities among them should be apparent; without saying which one is contributer's favorite. Sabyasachi Mishra ( talk) 06:23, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Could something like this be helpful for this article? Wiki-uk ( talk) 13:52, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
There has been a perennial debate (since long time) whether Hinduism is a monotheist, or polytheist or atheist religion. Hinduism is actually an 'Infinito-Theist' religion. As per Hindu texts like vedas and upanishads god is 'anaadi' and 'annant', i.e. infinite and non quantifiable. When we say God is one, or more than one , we are trying to quantify and measure the god. Even when we say there is no God or Zero God , we are doing the same. But as per original Hindu philosophy, God is non quantifiable i.e it cannot be measured. God is Infinite in terms of proportion, size, span, even in time. Infinity of God also signifies infinite possibilites of God. Thus One God, Two God, 33 Crore Gods, No God are actually various possibilites and aspects of Infinite God. As per Hindu philosophy god is also omnipresent, permeates through out the entire Universe and is present in each and every particle, space and wave present in universe (Kan Kan may Ishwar Vidyaman) i.e infinite in span. That's why Hindus can worship the entire universe. Depending on his capacity, capability and personal interest a Hindu can worship idols, animals, living persons, dead persons, as god lies in virtually everything. Thus, Hinduism is the only religion in the world to recognise monotheism, polytheism, atheism, agnosticism, animism etc. This feature makes it a mother of all religions. Thus a Hindu can be an athiest, like Kapil Muni. Hindus are permitted to dismiss, criticise or even reject any of its sacred texts and yet remain a Hindu. For example, Chaarwak rejected Vedas, yet he remained a Hindu. One more intersting thing I would like to add, that every knows Hindus have invented Zero. But only few people knows that Hindus have also invented Infinity. So, lets promote Hinduism as Infinito-Theist Religion.- Rajesh Kumar69 ( talk) 05:43, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
Unlike semetic religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, which are "absolutist'religions, Hinduism is Quantum-Relativisic religion. As per Hinduism, truth depends on the viewers, i.e. truth for one person can be falsehood for second person and half truth for third person, which can be called as Quantum View point.For as per Hinduism there is nothing like absolute truth or perfection. Truth or Perfection are always compartive in nature, i.e Relativistic view point. Thus as per Hinduism even God is infallible.This Quantum-Relativity of Hinduism not only make it tolerent ,but also enable it to continously redefine itself. This ability of redifine itself has made it worlds oldest surving and flourishing religion.This Quantum-Relativity also makes it an Unorganized relgion, a reilgion without central authority, numerous books, numerous contradictory ideologies and sects etc.Actually, it is not a single religion, but a cofedration or conglomeration of numerous and ever increasing religions , originated at differnt time, and amalgamated with mainstream Hinuism, while retaining thier original character. In Fact notion of mainstream Hinduism has also changed from time to time.Thus, it is World's only Unorganized Relgion, which makes it unique and great. Rajesh Kumar69 ( talk) 06:22, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
I think that the section on philosophy in Historical Vedic religion should be imported and merged into this article. CorrectKnowledge ( talk) 18:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree, it seems to fit very much with this topic. Adelle Frank ( talk) 16:57, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
I would like to talk about the use of unambiguous Sanskrit transliteration here and in general on Wikipedia. Would this be the right place? Personally I'm very much in favour of having the IAST spelling. All over if possible, maybe not for lemmas in real general use as nirvāṇa or so, but why not? I see no reason to not have Nyāya, Vaiśeṣika, Vaiśeṣika Sūtra and other lemma's. A reference text necessarily must use precise, unambiguous transliteration, so it often even includes Devanāgarī for more options. Wakari07 ( talk) 22:00, 20 September 2012 (UTC)