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There is an edit war over the status of OOC. The IP editor wants to mark it as the "temporary" London terminus, with Euston still the planned terminus. I disagree. When Sunak announced that the scope of HS2 was being curtailed, he abandoned (a) the main spine to Manchester north of Lichfield and (b) the tunnel to Euston and the station rebuild. Both these aspects have been removed from HS2 Ltd's remit. So they are not in any current plan.
As a face-saving exercise, he left open the option for a private sector consortium to pick up the Euston link but talk is cheap. It is a wild WP:CRYSTAL violation to pretend that this is actually going to happen. No such consortium exists. If a credible proposal comes forward, we can report it at that stage but right now there is nothing. Zero. Zilch. To claim otherwise is deliberate deceit. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 13:29, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Not to open the debate again (before 2033 ) but this article in the Architects' Journal gives an objective assessment of the position and is well worth taking time to read: Clark, Tim (3 November 2023). "How do you solve HS2's Euston development riddle?". Architects' Journal. Two quotes are particularly interesting:
One senior rail consultant close to the project told the AJ: ‘Rishi wanted to scrap the whole thing – or anything that hadn’t been started yet – wipe the slate clean and chalk up the project as a learning exercise. 'He was told after he came back from the party conference that he couldn’t stop Euston, but he decided to say "get on with it but do it with private finance". This is an impossibility – it's a shambles.'
and
A DfT spokesperson said: 'As has always been planned, the line will finish at Euston. This is a world-class regeneration opportunity and there is already extensive support and interest from the private sector to invest.
Take what you will out of that. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:17, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Length of new HS2 track is 140 miles; in info box on Route section. The total length of the HS2 service network, London Euston to Glasgow, with branches to Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester is needed for info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4B00:B607:3D00:3D84:E8B2:119C:F054 ( talk) 12:12, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
If there was a need for HS2 to provide greater capacity, those interested in it will surely be interested in alternative ways of remedying the deficiencies that HS2 was originally intended to provide. I accept that Andy Burnham's and Andy Street's January meeting with Government was not about reviving high speed connections, but it clearly included increasing capacity between Handsacre Junction and the start of Northern Powerhouse Rail. [1] Perhaps this article deserves a section about proposals to remedy the capacity deficiencies that the amputated limbs were designed to meet. TedColes ( talk) 12:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Please do not shout.-- TedColes ( talk) 22:51, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Not HS2. Burnham and Street emphatically even say it is not HS2 and that they are not reviving HS2. It will be a section of the WCML. That is obvious. If anyone cannot see that they should not be editing. It is is an factual encyclopedia, not a outlet for speculation about other lines. There are dedicated rail forums for that. 137.220.74.146 ( talk) 02:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
References
West Midlands mayor Andy Street and his counterpart in Greater Manchester Andy Burnham are due to meet the transport secretary next week to discuss plans for a replacement for the cancelled HS2 leg between Birmingham and Manchester.
Hi, been a bit confused, since it was added a few months ago following the cut of the northern leg, but the lead of this article now gives a lot of attention that HS2 is "not just a railway line but also a wider network of services". Which seems off, considering as most of the article (incl. infobox) is on the railway line, even specifically stating "HS2" wouldn't extend to Scotland in a section, so bit contradictory. The company themselves only describes HS2 to be the new line, and would be comparable to describe all Eurostar services to be High Speed 1 services? In the end, AFAIAA, the services would be part the operator of the West Coast Partnership, that merely use the line. Dank Jae 22:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Yet another edit war has broken out between those of us who prefer
High Speed 2 (HS2) is a high-speed railway line which is under construction in England. The same name is used for services which are planned to run on the line and beyond.
versus those who prefer
High Speed 2 (HS2) is a planned high-speed railway line and network of passenger train services in Great Britain.
Is there any way we can reconcile these view points? AFAICS, the first version is in line with all the media analysis; the second is in line with political position. IMO, the second position was defensible when it was slated to go to Manchester and Leeds, it stretched credulity when Leeds was axed but now, when it only goes to Birmingham (apart from a spur to the WCML where HS2 trains are too long for the platforms and too slow for the track), it is just silly. A.D.Hope, you keep reinstating the second version but you appear to be in a minority of one. Can you provide a justification that cites any competent sources later than last October? -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 20:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Ordinarily a bill that does not receive royal assent by the end of the parliamentary session fails; to become an Act, it must be re-introduced in the following session.and includes multiple cases where that is true. A motion to carry-over is clearly the exception to a general rule. Either way, it is a bill, not a law. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 17:05, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Can we drop the 'network' aspect of HS2 from the lead and elsewhere? It seems to have been abandoned by the HS2 website, at least. A.D.Hope ( talk) 17:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
This discussion is beginning to drift into speculation and WP:NOTFORUM territory, so best we draw a line under it at this stage. We can report as fact that "very high speed" track is funded, contracted and under construction between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon St. Everything else is unfunded aspiration and may only be reported as such unless and until that status changes. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
High Speed 2 article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5Auto-archiving period: 90 days |
High Speed 2 received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
There is an edit war over the status of OOC. The IP editor wants to mark it as the "temporary" London terminus, with Euston still the planned terminus. I disagree. When Sunak announced that the scope of HS2 was being curtailed, he abandoned (a) the main spine to Manchester north of Lichfield and (b) the tunnel to Euston and the station rebuild. Both these aspects have been removed from HS2 Ltd's remit. So they are not in any current plan.
As a face-saving exercise, he left open the option for a private sector consortium to pick up the Euston link but talk is cheap. It is a wild WP:CRYSTAL violation to pretend that this is actually going to happen. No such consortium exists. If a credible proposal comes forward, we can report it at that stage but right now there is nothing. Zero. Zilch. To claim otherwise is deliberate deceit. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 13:29, 28 October 2023 (UTC)
Not to open the debate again (before 2033 ) but this article in the Architects' Journal gives an objective assessment of the position and is well worth taking time to read: Clark, Tim (3 November 2023). "How do you solve HS2's Euston development riddle?". Architects' Journal. Two quotes are particularly interesting:
One senior rail consultant close to the project told the AJ: ‘Rishi wanted to scrap the whole thing – or anything that hadn’t been started yet – wipe the slate clean and chalk up the project as a learning exercise. 'He was told after he came back from the party conference that he couldn’t stop Euston, but he decided to say "get on with it but do it with private finance". This is an impossibility – it's a shambles.'
and
A DfT spokesperson said: 'As has always been planned, the line will finish at Euston. This is a world-class regeneration opportunity and there is already extensive support and interest from the private sector to invest.
Take what you will out of that. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 16:17, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Length of new HS2 track is 140 miles; in info box on Route section. The total length of the HS2 service network, London Euston to Glasgow, with branches to Birmingham, Liverpool and Manchester is needed for info box. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A01:4B00:B607:3D00:3D84:E8B2:119C:F054 ( talk) 12:12, 30 October 2023 (UTC)
If there was a need for HS2 to provide greater capacity, those interested in it will surely be interested in alternative ways of remedying the deficiencies that HS2 was originally intended to provide. I accept that Andy Burnham's and Andy Street's January meeting with Government was not about reviving high speed connections, but it clearly included increasing capacity between Handsacre Junction and the start of Northern Powerhouse Rail. [1] Perhaps this article deserves a section about proposals to remedy the capacity deficiencies that the amputated limbs were designed to meet. TedColes ( talk) 12:15, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
Please do not shout.-- TedColes ( talk) 22:51, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
Not HS2. Burnham and Street emphatically even say it is not HS2 and that they are not reviving HS2. It will be a section of the WCML. That is obvious. If anyone cannot see that they should not be editing. It is is an factual encyclopedia, not a outlet for speculation about other lines. There are dedicated rail forums for that. 137.220.74.146 ( talk) 02:58, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
References
West Midlands mayor Andy Street and his counterpart in Greater Manchester Andy Burnham are due to meet the transport secretary next week to discuss plans for a replacement for the cancelled HS2 leg between Birmingham and Manchester.
Hi, been a bit confused, since it was added a few months ago following the cut of the northern leg, but the lead of this article now gives a lot of attention that HS2 is "not just a railway line but also a wider network of services". Which seems off, considering as most of the article (incl. infobox) is on the railway line, even specifically stating "HS2" wouldn't extend to Scotland in a section, so bit contradictory. The company themselves only describes HS2 to be the new line, and would be comparable to describe all Eurostar services to be High Speed 1 services? In the end, AFAIAA, the services would be part the operator of the West Coast Partnership, that merely use the line. Dank Jae 22:52, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Yet another edit war has broken out between those of us who prefer
High Speed 2 (HS2) is a high-speed railway line which is under construction in England. The same name is used for services which are planned to run on the line and beyond.
versus those who prefer
High Speed 2 (HS2) is a planned high-speed railway line and network of passenger train services in Great Britain.
Is there any way we can reconcile these view points? AFAICS, the first version is in line with all the media analysis; the second is in line with political position. IMO, the second position was defensible when it was slated to go to Manchester and Leeds, it stretched credulity when Leeds was axed but now, when it only goes to Birmingham (apart from a spur to the WCML where HS2 trains are too long for the platforms and too slow for the track), it is just silly. A.D.Hope, you keep reinstating the second version but you appear to be in a minority of one. Can you provide a justification that cites any competent sources later than last October? -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 20:44, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Ordinarily a bill that does not receive royal assent by the end of the parliamentary session fails; to become an Act, it must be re-introduced in the following session.and includes multiple cases where that is true. A motion to carry-over is clearly the exception to a general rule. Either way, it is a bill, not a law. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 17:05, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
Can we drop the 'network' aspect of HS2 from the lead and elsewhere? It seems to have been abandoned by the HS2 website, at least. A.D.Hope ( talk) 17:43, 13 April 2024 (UTC)
This discussion is beginning to drift into speculation and WP:NOTFORUM territory, so best we draw a line under it at this stage. We can report as fact that "very high speed" track is funded, contracted and under construction between Old Oak Common and Birmingham Curzon St. Everything else is unfunded aspiration and may only be reported as such unless and until that status changes. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:56, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
References