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I tried the external link http://www.irishslang.co.za/ and today (2020-11-26@17:18 CST) it’s dead. Matt Insall ( talk) 23:18, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Wolfdog reverted my removal of what I consider to be trivial and poorly verified. To take the last point first, proving that Christine Bleakley, Jamie Dornan, Rory McIlroy, and Liam Neeson are somehow "lifelong native speakers" is done by a link to a newspaper article, which states, in full, "The dulcet tones of Liam Neeson, Jamie Dornan, Christine Bleakley and Rory McIlroy helped ensure the accent came top of the popularity charts when it comes to 'sweet talk'." So that's a no-no already, and the sourcing for the others is no better. But Wolfdog claims that "It's a commonplace on multiple WP dialect pages"--even if that were true, that wouldn't make it right for this article; in addition, how is it true? In the move discussion, above, Wolfdog lists a few Englishes ( Texan English, Scottish English, Indian English)--none of them have it. I'll list a couple that I know, none of which have it: West Frisian Dutch, Limburgish, Brabantian dialect, Gronings dialect, South Guelderish, West Flemish, Southern American English--and The Banner knows some of these too. In addition, other sections in this article (Dublin English, Standard (Southern) Irish English) don't have it either. Wolfdog, you may be attached to this content because you added it, so I'm sorry, but you didn't add it to other articles you edited: Jamaican English, Western New England English, Canadian English, New England English, and while that undermines your "commonplace" argument, it's a good thing that you didn't.
I'm not the first one to have problems with this content: Ceoil thought it was "silly" too, and you reverted him with a simple "reverting material removal". So I'm sorry, but the arguments you provided don't hold water, and the content should be removed. Drmies ( talk) 14:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Shane Walshe who wrote ISBN 9783631586822 has a doctorate in Linguistics, for example. Try reading what xe has to say, for starters. And then you can look to Angela McCarthy in ISBN 9781851829576 and elsewhere observing how Charlotte Godley is an example of how New Zealanders and Australians once commonly conflated Irish and Scots accents, quoting this letter. I suspect that you'll get a lot less resistance to genuine scholarship than to "Staff Writer" at the Belfast Telegraph and a poll run by a supermarket as a publicity stunt for Valentine's Day.
As noted at User:Uncle G/Cargo cult encyclopaedia article writing good content keeps out the bad somewhat. This is currently the latter, though.
I agree with the removal. Arbitrary and poorly sourced. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 10:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Messages for doing the shopping, is that exclusively Irish. It's used in Scotland too. And might come from the Dutch "boodschappen" (messages), which is used in the Netherlands as the word for doing the shopping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.174.48.97 ( talk) 21:21, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page not moved. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 02:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Hiberno-English → Irish English – The proposed name fulfills all 5 WP:CRITERIA. Importantly, it fufills WP:COMNAME and WP:CONSISTENCY, which the last RM didn't take into account. Its also the overwhelming WP:PRITOP. 90.252.42.166 ( talk) 19:38, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Please discuss ... - Alison talk 20:20, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
My edits have been reverted, could someone explain why? If you look at pages such as International Phonetic Alphabet chart for English dialects, American English or Barbadian English the keywords of lexical sets are in small all caps. Monophthongs and diphthongs don’t need to be seperate sections, as they aren’t in most English dialect pages, and particularly in the case of Irish English since it realises a lot of the "diphthongs" as monophthongs. I removed came, gave, any and many since they are irrelevant to the section, they are irregular dialectal pronunciations that don’t represent any phonemic mergers or splits. I also restored a link and organised the footnotes. Any feedback on what was unconstructive would be appreciated. 2A01:B340:86:6AA:B025:530E:91C4:78F6 ( talk) 00:08, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
There was some editwarring recently about some material that an anon kept adding (to the section on grammar, where it clearly doesn't belong). A cleaned-up version would look something like this, though needs proper citations not pasted-in bare URLs:
In 1591, a German traveler, Ludolf von Münchhausen, visited Dublin, and wrote of the Pale: "Little Irish is spoken; there are even some people here who cannot speak Irish at all." [1] Albert Jouvin de Rochefort of France traveled to Ireland in 1668, and wrote: "In the inland parts of Ireland, they speak a particular language, but in the greatest part of the towns and villages on the [eastern] sea coast, only English is spoken." [2]
My edit makes it into a single paragraph, fixes up the grammar, and removes editorialising/supposition ( WP:OR). This seems reasonable to include somewhere, after the cites are fleshed out. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 10:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hiberno-English article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1,
2,
3Auto-archiving period: 180 days
![]() |
![]() | Hiberno-English received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
![]() | This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
![]() | This article is written in Hiberno-English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, realise, travelled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Hiberno-English be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in Ireland may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I tried the external link http://www.irishslang.co.za/ and today (2020-11-26@17:18 CST) it’s dead. Matt Insall ( talk) 23:18, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Wolfdog reverted my removal of what I consider to be trivial and poorly verified. To take the last point first, proving that Christine Bleakley, Jamie Dornan, Rory McIlroy, and Liam Neeson are somehow "lifelong native speakers" is done by a link to a newspaper article, which states, in full, "The dulcet tones of Liam Neeson, Jamie Dornan, Christine Bleakley and Rory McIlroy helped ensure the accent came top of the popularity charts when it comes to 'sweet talk'." So that's a no-no already, and the sourcing for the others is no better. But Wolfdog claims that "It's a commonplace on multiple WP dialect pages"--even if that were true, that wouldn't make it right for this article; in addition, how is it true? In the move discussion, above, Wolfdog lists a few Englishes ( Texan English, Scottish English, Indian English)--none of them have it. I'll list a couple that I know, none of which have it: West Frisian Dutch, Limburgish, Brabantian dialect, Gronings dialect, South Guelderish, West Flemish, Southern American English--and The Banner knows some of these too. In addition, other sections in this article (Dublin English, Standard (Southern) Irish English) don't have it either. Wolfdog, you may be attached to this content because you added it, so I'm sorry, but you didn't add it to other articles you edited: Jamaican English, Western New England English, Canadian English, New England English, and while that undermines your "commonplace" argument, it's a good thing that you didn't.
I'm not the first one to have problems with this content: Ceoil thought it was "silly" too, and you reverted him with a simple "reverting material removal". So I'm sorry, but the arguments you provided don't hold water, and the content should be removed. Drmies ( talk) 14:34, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Shane Walshe who wrote ISBN 9783631586822 has a doctorate in Linguistics, for example. Try reading what xe has to say, for starters. And then you can look to Angela McCarthy in ISBN 9781851829576 and elsewhere observing how Charlotte Godley is an example of how New Zealanders and Australians once commonly conflated Irish and Scots accents, quoting this letter. I suspect that you'll get a lot less resistance to genuine scholarship than to "Staff Writer" at the Belfast Telegraph and a poll run by a supermarket as a publicity stunt for Valentine's Day.
As noted at User:Uncle G/Cargo cult encyclopaedia article writing good content keeps out the bad somewhat. This is currently the latter, though.
I agree with the removal. Arbitrary and poorly sourced. Bastun Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 10:18, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Messages for doing the shopping, is that exclusively Irish. It's used in Scotland too. And might come from the Dutch "boodschappen" (messages), which is used in the Netherlands as the word for doing the shopping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.174.48.97 ( talk) 21:21, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page not moved. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 02:28, 19 April 2023 (UTC)
Hiberno-English → Irish English – The proposed name fulfills all 5 WP:CRITERIA. Importantly, it fufills WP:COMNAME and WP:CONSISTENCY, which the last RM didn't take into account. Its also the overwhelming WP:PRITOP. 90.252.42.166 ( talk) 19:38, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
Please discuss ... - Alison talk 20:20, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
My edits have been reverted, could someone explain why? If you look at pages such as International Phonetic Alphabet chart for English dialects, American English or Barbadian English the keywords of lexical sets are in small all caps. Monophthongs and diphthongs don’t need to be seperate sections, as they aren’t in most English dialect pages, and particularly in the case of Irish English since it realises a lot of the "diphthongs" as monophthongs. I removed came, gave, any and many since they are irrelevant to the section, they are irregular dialectal pronunciations that don’t represent any phonemic mergers or splits. I also restored a link and organised the footnotes. Any feedback on what was unconstructive would be appreciated. 2A01:B340:86:6AA:B025:530E:91C4:78F6 ( talk) 00:08, 22 October 2023 (UTC)
There was some editwarring recently about some material that an anon kept adding (to the section on grammar, where it clearly doesn't belong). A cleaned-up version would look something like this, though needs proper citations not pasted-in bare URLs:
In 1591, a German traveler, Ludolf von Münchhausen, visited Dublin, and wrote of the Pale: "Little Irish is spoken; there are even some people here who cannot speak Irish at all." [1] Albert Jouvin de Rochefort of France traveled to Ireland in 1668, and wrote: "In the inland parts of Ireland, they speak a particular language, but in the greatest part of the towns and villages on the [eastern] sea coast, only English is spoken." [2]
My edit makes it into a single paragraph, fixes up the grammar, and removes editorialising/supposition ( WP:OR). This seems reasonable to include somewhere, after the cites are fleshed out. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 10:30, 3 February 2024 (UTC)