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The articles now are split. JoergenB 09:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Since most of my comments concerned the song, not the film, I move them from Talk:Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush (film) to this page: JoergenB 10:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Right now, this article is about two separate items: (Originally) a film, and (as an afterthought) a song. I do not think this is a good idea. (Incidently, I found the article by means of an interwiki link about the song.)
The song is the older item in this case. The novel was written with a title the author thought all would recognise; and there are several references around, of the type "To the tune of 'Here we go round the mulberry bush'". (That includes a couple of references to this article!) Personally, I've heard about the song, but not the movie; but I'm a Swede and have some interests in folklore, whence I might not be representative. However, if indeed the song, game, or nursery rhyme indeed is more well-known than the film, or they are more or less equally well-known, I'd recommend the song article to retain the main name. In either case, the articles should be split; but the precise manner should preferrably be done by people knowing which item our readers are most likely to search for under this name.
Please, also note that there are several books with this title; not only Hunter Davies's; vide infra! JoergenB 17:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Right now, the text contains the following claim (and protest):
This is a statement I doubt, to put it mildly. It is more or less quoted from our article Wakefield, where this is stated as a fact. There a reference is given to a subpage of the official Wakefield webpage, with information and perhaps a touch of advertising. However, this source does not at all go as far as to claim this to be correct; what they write is (my boldface):
This is speculative, but clearly not just their own speculation; there is an indirect reference to a book about the history of the prison, with a suggestive title:
According to the reference, seemingly, at that time Duncan was prison governor, and wrote the book to commemorate an anniversary. This means that Duncan probably isn't a folklorist in the first place, and might not have checked up the existence of parallels in other languages. Indeed, similar songs and an associated game is found in Danish, Norwegian (cf. no:Så går vi rundt om en enebærbusk), and Swedish; and according to the Norwegian article also in Belgium and the Netherlands. In the Scandinavian variants, "the mulberry bush" is replaced by "a juniper bush" - or vice versa, depending on which language group version of the song and game is the older.
I may do an injustice to Mr./Ms. Duncan, who might be well versed in folklore studies and/or may have quoted other and more professional books. I suspect that it might be a bit hard to find the book outside Wakefield and its vicinity, though. However, it would be nice, if some wikipedian is able to find a copy and to decide whether this is just a speculative idea yielding a nice book title, or has some substance. Pending this, I think that we should mention this as as "a suggestion" and nothing more.
Anyhow, the wakefield interest produced a nice link to the full text (which really is very close to the song I and a million other Swedes know from childhood, and often sing at Christmas time). JoergenB 17:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that the origin of the rhyme is the murder of the Saint Thomas a Beckett at Canterbury.The assassins chasing him around the mulberry bush! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intalok ( talk • contribs) 10:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Found it! See http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/becket2gerv.html my first contribution to wiki ! Intalok ( talk) 01:10, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi again, I've been digging around. I found a reference in a parish magazine referring to a talk at Ulcombe History Society (see page 20 of http://www.boughtonmalherbepc.kentparishes.gov.uk/userfiles/File/MMMay2006issue.pdf) Quote "On Tuesday 16 May (2006) Dr Reuthen will be talking about the History of Nursery Rhymes...and Here we go round the mulberry bush relates to the murder of Thomas a Becket..." . sorry not to be more definite, can anyone else help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Intalok ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC) Intalok ( talk) 15:28, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
The article says:
The tune is similar to that of the Christmas carol I Saw Three Ships.
Compare the tunes. They don't appear to have much in common:
Mulberry Bush:
I Saw Three Ships:
D, G-G-A-B, D-B-A-C, B-G-G-B, A-F♯-D-D, G-G-A-B, D-B-A-C, B-G-G-A-B, A-G
Checking the tunes, lining up the notes:
Georgia guy ( talk) 22:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I found the actual tune on kididdles.com, here. Angie Y. ( talk) 20:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Where are they? 2.25.135.200 ( talk) 22:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
I disagree that specific set of verses is the most famous, at least not in North America. The verses most American children learned had to do with homemaking skills, not personal grooming. You can view those lyrics here. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/rhymes/Mulberry.shtml and here http://bussongs.com/songs/here-we-go-round-the-mulberry-bush.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.90.98 ( talk) 15:56, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth ( talk) 10:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the following section, which has no references:
The Merry-Go-Round is a song with the same tune as "Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush", but some notes are removed. The song tells the story of several children on a merry-go-round that—in a sadistic twist—collapses because so many children are riding it. The circle game that accompanies it is similar to the one for Ring Around the Rosie, as described below.
The merry-go-round goes 'round and 'round,
The children laughed and laughed and laughed,
So many were going 'round and 'round,
That the merry-go-round collapsed.The verse is usually repeated a second time.
The circle singing game that accompanies these verses also changes by region, but the most common form consists of participants standing in a circle and holding hands, followed by skipping in one direction as they sing the tune that accompanies these verses. As the word collapsed in the second verse is sung, the group usually falls down into a heap.
~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 18:15, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Plays the young girl who believes Barry Evans is her “daddy” 80.4.49.163 ( talk) 04:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The articles now are split. JoergenB 09:32, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Since most of my comments concerned the song, not the film, I move them from Talk:Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush (film) to this page: JoergenB 10:50, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
Right now, this article is about two separate items: (Originally) a film, and (as an afterthought) a song. I do not think this is a good idea. (Incidently, I found the article by means of an interwiki link about the song.)
The song is the older item in this case. The novel was written with a title the author thought all would recognise; and there are several references around, of the type "To the tune of 'Here we go round the mulberry bush'". (That includes a couple of references to this article!) Personally, I've heard about the song, but not the movie; but I'm a Swede and have some interests in folklore, whence I might not be representative. However, if indeed the song, game, or nursery rhyme indeed is more well-known than the film, or they are more or less equally well-known, I'd recommend the song article to retain the main name. In either case, the articles should be split; but the precise manner should preferrably be done by people knowing which item our readers are most likely to search for under this name.
Please, also note that there are several books with this title; not only Hunter Davies's; vide infra! JoergenB 17:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
Right now, the text contains the following claim (and protest):
This is a statement I doubt, to put it mildly. It is more or less quoted from our article Wakefield, where this is stated as a fact. There a reference is given to a subpage of the official Wakefield webpage, with information and perhaps a touch of advertising. However, this source does not at all go as far as to claim this to be correct; what they write is (my boldface):
This is speculative, but clearly not just their own speculation; there is an indirect reference to a book about the history of the prison, with a suggestive title:
According to the reference, seemingly, at that time Duncan was prison governor, and wrote the book to commemorate an anniversary. This means that Duncan probably isn't a folklorist in the first place, and might not have checked up the existence of parallels in other languages. Indeed, similar songs and an associated game is found in Danish, Norwegian (cf. no:Så går vi rundt om en enebærbusk), and Swedish; and according to the Norwegian article also in Belgium and the Netherlands. In the Scandinavian variants, "the mulberry bush" is replaced by "a juniper bush" - or vice versa, depending on which language group version of the song and game is the older.
I may do an injustice to Mr./Ms. Duncan, who might be well versed in folklore studies and/or may have quoted other and more professional books. I suspect that it might be a bit hard to find the book outside Wakefield and its vicinity, though. However, it would be nice, if some wikipedian is able to find a copy and to decide whether this is just a speculative idea yielding a nice book title, or has some substance. Pending this, I think that we should mention this as as "a suggestion" and nothing more.
Anyhow, the wakefield interest produced a nice link to the full text (which really is very close to the song I and a million other Swedes know from childhood, and often sing at Christmas time). JoergenB 17:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
My understanding is that the origin of the rhyme is the murder of the Saint Thomas a Beckett at Canterbury.The assassins chasing him around the mulberry bush! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Intalok ( talk • contribs) 10:07, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Found it! See http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/becket2gerv.html my first contribution to wiki ! Intalok ( talk) 01:10, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Hi again, I've been digging around. I found a reference in a parish magazine referring to a talk at Ulcombe History Society (see page 20 of http://www.boughtonmalherbepc.kentparishes.gov.uk/userfiles/File/MMMay2006issue.pdf) Quote "On Tuesday 16 May (2006) Dr Reuthen will be talking about the History of Nursery Rhymes...and Here we go round the mulberry bush relates to the murder of Thomas a Becket..." . sorry not to be more definite, can anyone else help? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Intalok ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC) Intalok ( talk) 15:28, 10 May 2011 (UTC)
The article says:
The tune is similar to that of the Christmas carol I Saw Three Ships.
Compare the tunes. They don't appear to have much in common:
Mulberry Bush:
I Saw Three Ships:
D, G-G-A-B, D-B-A-C, B-G-G-B, A-F♯-D-D, G-G-A-B, D-B-A-C, B-G-G-A-B, A-G
Checking the tunes, lining up the notes:
Georgia guy ( talk) 22:48, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
I found the actual tune on kididdles.com, here. Angie Y. ( talk) 20:34, 3 April 2008 (UTC)
Where are they? 2.25.135.200 ( talk) 22:23, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
I disagree that specific set of verses is the most famous, at least not in North America. The verses most American children learned had to do with homemaking skills, not personal grooming. You can view those lyrics here. http://www.enchantedlearning.com/rhymes/Mulberry.shtml and here http://bussongs.com/songs/here-we-go-round-the-mulberry-bush.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.78.90.98 ( talk) 15:56, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth ( talk) 10:57, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I've removed the following section, which has no references:
The Merry-Go-Round is a song with the same tune as "Here We Go Round the Mulberry Bush", but some notes are removed. The song tells the story of several children on a merry-go-round that—in a sadistic twist—collapses because so many children are riding it. The circle game that accompanies it is similar to the one for Ring Around the Rosie, as described below.
The merry-go-round goes 'round and 'round,
The children laughed and laughed and laughed,
So many were going 'round and 'round,
That the merry-go-round collapsed.The verse is usually repeated a second time.
The circle singing game that accompanies these verses also changes by region, but the most common form consists of participants standing in a circle and holding hands, followed by skipping in one direction as they sing the tune that accompanies these verses. As the word collapsed in the second verse is sung, the group usually falls down into a heap.
~dom Kaos~ ( talk) 18:15, 6 October 2019 (UTC)
Plays the young girl who believes Barry Evans is her “daddy” 80.4.49.163 ( talk) 04:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)