![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 12, 2020. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article suffers from some of the same problems as that for Robert Harley, 1st Earl of Oxford and Mortimer, being written from a strongly Whiggish POV and thus deprecating Tory politicians like St John.
Wouldn't Henry St John (or Henry St. John) be sufficient for a title? -- Zoe
Bolingbroke is a common name used for him. Susan Mason
I agree. I would know him as Bolingbroke rather than Henry St. John, however he should be in as St. John rather than St John, which is not how it is normally written. STÓD/ÉÍRE
Are you sure you are ok Jtdirl/Zoe?
Susan Mason
So then why not Viscount Bolingbroke? -- Zoe
Naming conventions, my dear Zoe, naming conventions. STÓD/ÉÍRE 03:03 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
Not for a long time. The formula used for ages now is {name), {ordinal if known or needed} {title}. This is named exactly as agreed in a discussion ages ago, which is:
On the other hand, the titles are supposed to be something which a user would commonly write within text, and "Henry St John, Viscount Bolingbroke, was known for being a Viscount" is not exactly a good sentence. Susan Mason
The point is that the title of this article should be changed. Stop being hypercritical, its a waste. Susan Mason
No it shouldn't. It is following the naming conventions, Adam, so it stays here. STÓD/ÉÍRE 21:39 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
My name isn't Adam, Zoe. Susan Mason
Whatever, Lir/Vera/Susan/Dietary. BTW the naming convention was agreed because people with titles are often known to some people by name, some people by title and others by a mixture of both. STÓD/ÉÍRE 22:25 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
Regarding "...In Britain the name St John is pronounced Sinj'n ..."; my understanding is that it is pronounced "sinj'n" in the case of a middle name or hyphenation, as in the James Bond movie where Rodger Moore uses the pseudonym "St.John-Smythe", but that it's "Saint John", same as in the States, when just a surname. Any Brit care to confirm? Thanks. Pete St.John 16:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
The introduction says that Bolingbroke was 'an intellectual leader of the "Country" party, attacking the corruption of the "Court party,"'. Later the article says he was a Tory (which aligns with my understanding of the matter). But the Whig article says this: 'The Whigs were originally also known as the "Country Party" (as opposed to the Tories, the "Court Party").'
Only one can be correct, and since Wikipedia shouldn't cite itself, I don't know which is correct. Maybe someone could sort this out? -- Sapphire Wyvern 05:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
There ought to be mention of the fact that Bolingbroke wrote a book advocating atheism, which he didn't dare publish in his lifetime but left to be published by one of his minions, to whom he left money to do it. Dr Johnson attacks him for this in Boswell. Roger Pearse 17:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't Lord Bolingbroke involved in negotiations with James III before the abortive '15 rising, and why is this not mentioned if so?
Jaguarjaguar ( talk) 09:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Recently the file File:Henry St John, 1st Viscount Bolingbroke by Jonathan Richardson.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 23:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
The viscountcy is still in existence today, so many generations of collateral descendants are listed in Debrett's Peerage etc. Is there any reason why the following deserve a place in this article? I do not believe this list to be relevant to this article so have removed it to here: "Desecendants include : Gordon St John : born: 24/10/'34; Sylvia St John, (wife of Gordon), born :27/08/'35; their sons, Carl St John, born: 21/08/'61; and Heath St John; born: 31/08/'66; and Christopher St John, (son of Carl), born: 12/09/'95."( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 18:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC))
"Bolingbroke did a service to the United Kingdom and democracy by stating the need and outlining the machinery of a systematic parliamentary opposition."
I put a "POV" tag on this, but maybe "peacock term" would have been more correct. While I personally approve of democracy and think that opposition parties are generally a good idea, it's not the only way to run a government and it does have its flaws. Actually ... I'm not sure, come to think of it, that an "opposition party" is such a hot idea: dividing things up into rugby teams and dismissing possible solutions because they came from the wrong side of the house.
So: POV. "did a service", not necessarily. Paul Murray ( talk) 03:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Was Bolingbroke an atheist? There is a short sentence in the beginning that says he is, but needs a citation. I have tried to find something else online to cite this, but I cannot find anything.
I actually came to this article because I thought he was an atheist. The ending sentence of Baron d'Holbach's (who was an outspoken atheist and wrote many atheistic works) 'Good Sense' quotes Lord Bolingbroke. This quote is not just crictizing the church, but the entire concept of theology (divinity). Though atheism was virtually unheard of at this time, few did critize the church, or state deism rather (such as Thomas Paine). I am not sure if this quote is enough to call Lord Bolingbroke an atheist. If it is, I will use it as a citation. Brainboy109 27 July 2012
From 'Good Sense' 'Let us observe with the celebrated Lord Bolingbroke, that "theology is the box of Pandora; and if it is impossible to shut it, it is at least useful to inform men, that this fatal box is open."' * Good Sense
It might be helpful to place Bolingbroke relative to other well-known figures, including Baron d'Holbach, who were connected with or influenced by him.
sections on Wiki are almost always uncurated and a waste of time, tending to bloat and without any guidelines.
Kindly restore these sources as they are used for citations by the article or with some notes as to their importance or relevance:
Thanks, — LlywelynII 00:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Why the title Viscount Bolingbroke? Did he choose it himself? If not, who did? In English history the name 'Bolingbroke', without further explanation, would usually be taken to refer to King Henry IV, son of John of Gaunt. Henry was born at Bolingbroke castle in Lincolnshire, which provides some basis for the name, though as far as I know he never had a formal title including the word. In the case of Henry St John, what reason could there be for the choice of the name? On the face of it, it would be presumptuous (or satirical), for someone to take (or be given) the name of a former king. 2A00:23C8:7907:4B01:A5D0:3C45:1CDF:F28 ( talk) 21:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on December 12, 2020. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article suffers from some of the same problems as that for Robert Harley, 1st Earl of Oxford and Mortimer, being written from a strongly Whiggish POV and thus deprecating Tory politicians like St John.
Wouldn't Henry St John (or Henry St. John) be sufficient for a title? -- Zoe
Bolingbroke is a common name used for him. Susan Mason
I agree. I would know him as Bolingbroke rather than Henry St. John, however he should be in as St. John rather than St John, which is not how it is normally written. STÓD/ÉÍRE
Are you sure you are ok Jtdirl/Zoe?
Susan Mason
So then why not Viscount Bolingbroke? -- Zoe
Naming conventions, my dear Zoe, naming conventions. STÓD/ÉÍRE 03:03 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
Not for a long time. The formula used for ages now is {name), {ordinal if known or needed} {title}. This is named exactly as agreed in a discussion ages ago, which is:
On the other hand, the titles are supposed to be something which a user would commonly write within text, and "Henry St John, Viscount Bolingbroke, was known for being a Viscount" is not exactly a good sentence. Susan Mason
The point is that the title of this article should be changed. Stop being hypercritical, its a waste. Susan Mason
No it shouldn't. It is following the naming conventions, Adam, so it stays here. STÓD/ÉÍRE 21:39 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
My name isn't Adam, Zoe. Susan Mason
Whatever, Lir/Vera/Susan/Dietary. BTW the naming convention was agreed because people with titles are often known to some people by name, some people by title and others by a mixture of both. STÓD/ÉÍRE 22:25 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
Regarding "...In Britain the name St John is pronounced Sinj'n ..."; my understanding is that it is pronounced "sinj'n" in the case of a middle name or hyphenation, as in the James Bond movie where Rodger Moore uses the pseudonym "St.John-Smythe", but that it's "Saint John", same as in the States, when just a surname. Any Brit care to confirm? Thanks. Pete St.John 16:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
The introduction says that Bolingbroke was 'an intellectual leader of the "Country" party, attacking the corruption of the "Court party,"'. Later the article says he was a Tory (which aligns with my understanding of the matter). But the Whig article says this: 'The Whigs were originally also known as the "Country Party" (as opposed to the Tories, the "Court Party").'
Only one can be correct, and since Wikipedia shouldn't cite itself, I don't know which is correct. Maybe someone could sort this out? -- Sapphire Wyvern 05:32, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
There ought to be mention of the fact that Bolingbroke wrote a book advocating atheism, which he didn't dare publish in his lifetime but left to be published by one of his minions, to whom he left money to do it. Dr Johnson attacks him for this in Boswell. Roger Pearse 17:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Wasn't Lord Bolingbroke involved in negotiations with James III before the abortive '15 rising, and why is this not mentioned if so?
Jaguarjaguar ( talk) 09:44, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
Recently the file File:Henry St John, 1st Viscount Bolingbroke by Jonathan Richardson.jpg (right) was uploaded and it appears to be relevant to this article and not currently used by it. If you're interested and think it would be a useful addition, please feel free to include it. Dcoetzee 23:08, 19 April 2009 (UTC)
The viscountcy is still in existence today, so many generations of collateral descendants are listed in Debrett's Peerage etc. Is there any reason why the following deserve a place in this article? I do not believe this list to be relevant to this article so have removed it to here: "Desecendants include : Gordon St John : born: 24/10/'34; Sylvia St John, (wife of Gordon), born :27/08/'35; their sons, Carl St John, born: 21/08/'61; and Heath St John; born: 31/08/'66; and Christopher St John, (son of Carl), born: 12/09/'95."( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 18:36, 7 December 2010 (UTC))
"Bolingbroke did a service to the United Kingdom and democracy by stating the need and outlining the machinery of a systematic parliamentary opposition."
I put a "POV" tag on this, but maybe "peacock term" would have been more correct. While I personally approve of democracy and think that opposition parties are generally a good idea, it's not the only way to run a government and it does have its flaws. Actually ... I'm not sure, come to think of it, that an "opposition party" is such a hot idea: dividing things up into rugby teams and dismissing possible solutions because they came from the wrong side of the house.
So: POV. "did a service", not necessarily. Paul Murray ( talk) 03:43, 4 April 2011 (UTC)
Was Bolingbroke an atheist? There is a short sentence in the beginning that says he is, but needs a citation. I have tried to find something else online to cite this, but I cannot find anything.
I actually came to this article because I thought he was an atheist. The ending sentence of Baron d'Holbach's (who was an outspoken atheist and wrote many atheistic works) 'Good Sense' quotes Lord Bolingbroke. This quote is not just crictizing the church, but the entire concept of theology (divinity). Though atheism was virtually unheard of at this time, few did critize the church, or state deism rather (such as Thomas Paine). I am not sure if this quote is enough to call Lord Bolingbroke an atheist. If it is, I will use it as a citation. Brainboy109 27 July 2012
From 'Good Sense' 'Let us observe with the celebrated Lord Bolingbroke, that "theology is the box of Pandora; and if it is impossible to shut it, it is at least useful to inform men, that this fatal box is open."' * Good Sense
It might be helpful to place Bolingbroke relative to other well-known figures, including Baron d'Holbach, who were connected with or influenced by him.
sections on Wiki are almost always uncurated and a waste of time, tending to bloat and without any guidelines.
Kindly restore these sources as they are used for citations by the article or with some notes as to their importance or relevance:
Thanks, — LlywelynII 00:38, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Why the title Viscount Bolingbroke? Did he choose it himself? If not, who did? In English history the name 'Bolingbroke', without further explanation, would usually be taken to refer to King Henry IV, son of John of Gaunt. Henry was born at Bolingbroke castle in Lincolnshire, which provides some basis for the name, though as far as I know he never had a formal title including the word. In the case of Henry St John, what reason could there be for the choice of the name? On the face of it, it would be presumptuous (or satirical), for someone to take (or be given) the name of a former king. 2A00:23C8:7907:4B01:A5D0:3C45:1CDF:F28 ( talk) 21:49, 6 November 2023 (UTC)