Helena, Montana was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 4, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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The collage is not clockwise.-- Manfariel ( talk) 14:14, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I removed a link: ( http://www.weelempowers.org/) from the external links, as it contains no relevant information about Helena.
I added Gary Cooper and Myrna Loy as notable residents and also made the meaningless text "Montana Governors" a link.
Capitol image added per Wikipedia:Requested_pictures#U.S._State_Capitals. I had to re-align the other images to get good text flow. The 1870 image was moved up the page to reflect the 'History' text that it should have been with. The Capitol photo was placed at the bottom of that section, where the text refers to "Being the state capital".
The 750x186 photo [1] is, artistically, not that good IMHO, in that it lacks a subject (it's treetops, mountains and sky!). It could be anywhere. If it highlighted the Sleeping Giant, it might be better; or if there were some other recognizable feature (a prominent local building, for example). I left it in so as not to upset Daniel, but I really feel it should be deleted or replaced. JanesDaddy 16:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
To the right you can see Carroll College (Montana). I believe the building just left of center is the train station. Hyacinth 09:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, the images are really sucking now! A dead end with THE CATHEDRAL IN THE BACKGROUND! Let's have a Cathedral in the foreground! A random house WITH THE CAPITOL IN THE BACKGROUND! I'm getting rid of it. There's already a capitol photo. We don't need to clutter this page with useless photos. The residential area isn't identified or identifiable, so I'm removing it too. -- JanesDaddy 10:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
The photo of the dead end with the cathedral did stand to be improved. I replaced it with a photo of the cathedral from Mt. Helena. SWD 17:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
This photo (left), however, did document the sentence of the article: "However, most streets follow the chaotic paths of the miners, going around claims and following the winding streambed. As a result, few city blocks match the ideal of 30 x 60, rather they have an irregular variety of shapes and size causing many major streets to end abruptly." -- Alex1011 14:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed David Sirota who is a totally NON-notable politcal hack with his own vanity page here. I'm not sure who added him (it was probably DS himself - that's his MO!) -- JanesDaddy 21:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't really understand how a township of 25,000 could be considered a city. There are towns in New Jersey with close to 100,000 residents and they're considered townships. Does someone have clarification on the definition of "city?" Jolb
Oops, I lose. [2]. Supposedly in Montana, anything above 10,000 people is considered a first-class city. This system is ludicrous. By that definition, the entire strip of land from Boston to Washington D.C. must be a city. Jolb
I guess it's not up to us. Hyacinth ( talk) 19:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Someone please add this: Urban Deer Culled in Montana Capital VZakharov ( talk) 16:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
If someone proposes that American Indians care whether non-Indians call themselves native Helenans or Montanans please cite a source. Hyacinth ( talk) 06:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It looks like this list is long enough that it should be changed to prose per WP:USCITY#Notable natives and residents, as that cuts down on vandalism and improves the article quality per good and featured article criteria. Hyacinth ( talk) 06:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations? Hyacinth ( talk) 06:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it is a city; I have to chuckle at some of the Eastern comments above. However, the city was not named after St. Helena, MN. There is no St. Helena, MN, and looking at old maps, there never was one. The city in MT was named after Helena, MN
http://www.montanahistory.net/placenames/indexd.htm
This is how I learned it as a kid, this is what the Montana Historical Society has verified and this is what Montana History dot Net claims. The Montana fishing website that 'you' are using as a citation is getting this incorrect information from the tourism site. It's a common misunderstanding that there must have been some kind of St. Helena somewhere, because the city later has/had links to Saint Helena --as in the name of the diocese/cathedral. However, the gold camp was named after Helena, Minnesota, plain and simple. No saints. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.182.57 ( talk) 15:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Good point, but your logic is backwards actually, if you think about it. The state tourism site is linked to the government by name, but in practice IT is a commercial site --it's marketing something: Montana. Virtually all tourism brochures and sites will 'talk up' a place, and often include half-true information. The saint business concerning the naming of the capital city (where I grew up and where my parents worked for the federal and state government for decades) is folk history, plain and simple. In contrast, the montana history dot net site is devoted to history; the manager of the site is not making a profit and has no reason to stretch the truth or use folk history. In fact, the author(s) of the site even cite historical materials in some places, which the tourism site does not do. I contacted a Zoe Ann Stoltz at the Montana Historical Society. She warned me to beware of information on line--even at 'official' websites of which you speak. I also contacted the Minnesota Historical Society. I was told to check out their place name 'function' of the site. It's a search engine and will bring up the names (and their histories) of places, past and present. There are only TWO Helena anythings in MN, past or present. One was a lake by Wadena, I believe it was, and the other is Helena, Minnesota, in Scott County, south of Minneapolis and Shakopee. I was assured that the database is complete. If something is not there, past or present, it did not exist. There is no St. Helena, MN and never was. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.182.57 ( talk) 03:44, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
I am just wondering does the introductory paragraph of this page really seem like the right place for the sports teams to be listed. This is the capital city of the fourth largest state in the union and a couple of minor league teams are the most important things about the city? I find that hard to believe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sara goth ( talk • contribs) 18:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I find Helena to be a wonderful fun town but personally I don’t have enough interest in Helena to want to take on the task of fixing and enhancing this page. Out of 70 some thousand people there must be someone with enough civic pride to want to fix the Helena page. Come on, there must be a government worker with some time to kill on the computer. Sara goth ( talk) 21:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Helena, Montana's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "NOAA":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 14:19, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm wondering why there is no mention of Fort William Henry Harrison on this page, not even in the economy section. Fort Harrison and the VA hospital are both prominent figures in the community. I would like to add a mention of this somewhere, with a link to the Fort Harrison article, but I'm open to suggestion as to where to place it. Any suggestions before I proceed? Pistongrinder ( talk) 23:23, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
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I removed a claim that it has snowed in every month, which was linked to the front page of a NOAA site which may or may not have snow data in it somewhere. I replaced it with a link to a DRI data page showing that it has snowed in June and August, but never in July. Given that the record low temperature for July is 36F, the claim that it has snowed in July is almost certainly false. But hiding it behind a general-purpose weather page makes it difficult or impossible to find out if there ever was such a claim in the original source. So I think what's best is to just report what the data says directly. — Soap — 17:19, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Howdy folks, just removed the image of the purported flag of Helena; I cannot find any official record of the flag ever being officially adopted by the city council, nor can I find images of it flying outside of the Montana State Capitol or anywhere, for that matter. The "flag" is being sold by various flag websites but the city code makes no reference to it at all. If anyone feels like sleuthing and definitively proving that this is, indeed, the official flag of Helena, MT, feel free to let me know and I will restore it. JohnHawkinsBois ( talk) 15:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
Helena, Montana was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (August 4, 2020). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The collage is not clockwise.-- Manfariel ( talk) 14:14, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
I removed a link: ( http://www.weelempowers.org/) from the external links, as it contains no relevant information about Helena.
I added Gary Cooper and Myrna Loy as notable residents and also made the meaningless text "Montana Governors" a link.
Capitol image added per Wikipedia:Requested_pictures#U.S._State_Capitals. I had to re-align the other images to get good text flow. The 1870 image was moved up the page to reflect the 'History' text that it should have been with. The Capitol photo was placed at the bottom of that section, where the text refers to "Being the state capital".
The 750x186 photo [1] is, artistically, not that good IMHO, in that it lacks a subject (it's treetops, mountains and sky!). It could be anywhere. If it highlighted the Sleeping Giant, it might be better; or if there were some other recognizable feature (a prominent local building, for example). I left it in so as not to upset Daniel, but I really feel it should be deleted or replaced. JanesDaddy 16:22, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
To the right you can see Carroll College (Montana). I believe the building just left of center is the train station. Hyacinth 09:19, 14 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, the images are really sucking now! A dead end with THE CATHEDRAL IN THE BACKGROUND! Let's have a Cathedral in the foreground! A random house WITH THE CAPITOL IN THE BACKGROUND! I'm getting rid of it. There's already a capitol photo. We don't need to clutter this page with useless photos. The residential area isn't identified or identifiable, so I'm removing it too. -- JanesDaddy 10:38, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
The photo of the dead end with the cathedral did stand to be improved. I replaced it with a photo of the cathedral from Mt. Helena. SWD 17:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
This photo (left), however, did document the sentence of the article: "However, most streets follow the chaotic paths of the miners, going around claims and following the winding streambed. As a result, few city blocks match the ideal of 30 x 60, rather they have an irregular variety of shapes and size causing many major streets to end abruptly." -- Alex1011 14:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed David Sirota who is a totally NON-notable politcal hack with his own vanity page here. I'm not sure who added him (it was probably DS himself - that's his MO!) -- JanesDaddy 21:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't really understand how a township of 25,000 could be considered a city. There are towns in New Jersey with close to 100,000 residents and they're considered townships. Does someone have clarification on the definition of "city?" Jolb
Oops, I lose. [2]. Supposedly in Montana, anything above 10,000 people is considered a first-class city. This system is ludicrous. By that definition, the entire strip of land from Boston to Washington D.C. must be a city. Jolb
I guess it's not up to us. Hyacinth ( talk) 19:58, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Someone please add this: Urban Deer Culled in Montana Capital VZakharov ( talk) 16:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
If someone proposes that American Indians care whether non-Indians call themselves native Helenans or Montanans please cite a source. Hyacinth ( talk) 06:02, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It looks like this list is long enough that it should be changed to prose per WP:USCITY#Notable natives and residents, as that cuts down on vandalism and improves the article quality per good and featured article criteria. Hyacinth ( talk) 06:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations? Hyacinth ( talk) 06:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
Yes, it is a city; I have to chuckle at some of the Eastern comments above. However, the city was not named after St. Helena, MN. There is no St. Helena, MN, and looking at old maps, there never was one. The city in MT was named after Helena, MN
http://www.montanahistory.net/placenames/indexd.htm
This is how I learned it as a kid, this is what the Montana Historical Society has verified and this is what Montana History dot Net claims. The Montana fishing website that 'you' are using as a citation is getting this incorrect information from the tourism site. It's a common misunderstanding that there must have been some kind of St. Helena somewhere, because the city later has/had links to Saint Helena --as in the name of the diocese/cathedral. However, the gold camp was named after Helena, Minnesota, plain and simple. No saints. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.182.57 ( talk) 15:27, 4 February 2010 (UTC)
Good point, but your logic is backwards actually, if you think about it. The state tourism site is linked to the government by name, but in practice IT is a commercial site --it's marketing something: Montana. Virtually all tourism brochures and sites will 'talk up' a place, and often include half-true information. The saint business concerning the naming of the capital city (where I grew up and where my parents worked for the federal and state government for decades) is folk history, plain and simple. In contrast, the montana history dot net site is devoted to history; the manager of the site is not making a profit and has no reason to stretch the truth or use folk history. In fact, the author(s) of the site even cite historical materials in some places, which the tourism site does not do. I contacted a Zoe Ann Stoltz at the Montana Historical Society. She warned me to beware of information on line--even at 'official' websites of which you speak. I also contacted the Minnesota Historical Society. I was told to check out their place name 'function' of the site. It's a search engine and will bring up the names (and their histories) of places, past and present. There are only TWO Helena anythings in MN, past or present. One was a lake by Wadena, I believe it was, and the other is Helena, Minnesota, in Scott County, south of Minneapolis and Shakopee. I was assured that the database is complete. If something is not there, past or present, it did not exist. There is no St. Helena, MN and never was. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.182.57 ( talk) 03:44, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
I am just wondering does the introductory paragraph of this page really seem like the right place for the sports teams to be listed. This is the capital city of the fourth largest state in the union and a couple of minor league teams are the most important things about the city? I find that hard to believe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sara goth ( talk • contribs) 18:15, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I find Helena to be a wonderful fun town but personally I don’t have enough interest in Helena to want to take on the task of fixing and enhancing this page. Out of 70 some thousand people there must be someone with enough civic pride to want to fix the Helena page. Come on, there must be a government worker with some time to kill on the computer. Sara goth ( talk) 21:15, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Helena, Montana's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "NOAA":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)
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Cheers. — cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 14:19, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
I'm wondering why there is no mention of Fort William Henry Harrison on this page, not even in the economy section. Fort Harrison and the VA hospital are both prominent figures in the community. I would like to add a mention of this somewhere, with a link to the Fort Harrison article, but I'm open to suggestion as to where to place it. Any suggestions before I proceed? Pistongrinder ( talk) 23:23, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
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I removed a claim that it has snowed in every month, which was linked to the front page of a NOAA site which may or may not have snow data in it somewhere. I replaced it with a link to a DRI data page showing that it has snowed in June and August, but never in July. Given that the record low temperature for July is 36F, the claim that it has snowed in July is almost certainly false. But hiding it behind a general-purpose weather page makes it difficult or impossible to find out if there ever was such a claim in the original source. So I think what's best is to just report what the data says directly. — Soap — 17:19, 7 October 2018 (UTC)
Howdy folks, just removed the image of the purported flag of Helena; I cannot find any official record of the flag ever being officially adopted by the city council, nor can I find images of it flying outside of the Montana State Capitol or anywhere, for that matter. The "flag" is being sold by various flag websites but the city code makes no reference to it at all. If anyone feels like sleuthing and definitively proving that this is, indeed, the official flag of Helena, MT, feel free to let me know and I will restore it. JohnHawkinsBois ( talk) 15:12, 18 May 2023 (UTC)