This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Heiligenbeil Pocket article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 29, 2013 and March 29, 2015. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Most English sources I have seen refer to the encirclement as either the Heiligenbeil Kessel (e.g. Beevor; 300 Google results) or the Heiligenbeil Cauldron (e.g. Duffy; 81 Google results). The latter is, of course, simply a translation of the former (in German it's usually given as Heiligenbeiler Kessel or Kessel von Heiligenbeil). Very occasionally Braunsberg will be mentioned in Heiligenbeil, but the title seems fairly clear to me...? Esdrasbarnevelt ( talk) 09:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
A Google Book search:
A Google Scholar search:
A web Foogle web search (has errors so one has to look at the last page returned):
Some of the pages returned for "Heiligenbeil Kessel" are in reality wikipedia mirrors like this one, so given these numbers I see no reason to move the article from Heiligenbeil Pocket. -- Philip Baird Shearer ( talk) 22:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
A pocket is usually something you are safe in. A cauldron is something you are usually in trouble in. The troops being slaughtered probably felt they were more in a "cauldron" than a "pocket", which might explain why some people chose that translation. North Americans tend to be a little less poetic, and "pocket" is easily understandable as a military term to me. It also benefits from being a neutral point of view, from either inside, or outside, the pocket. I would be interested to know how German speakers view this. Billyshiverstick ( talk) 17:01, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
There are some occasional differences between English and American and I suspect this is one of them: what in the world does "...in full numbers around..." mean? 138.162.128.52 ( talk) 14:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
From its title, through most of its detail, to its climax, this article hinges on geography. Without even a general map, this article is very hard to understand. Sorry I don't have the Wiki chops to add one. best regards Billyshiverstick ( talk) 16:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Heiligenbeil Pocket article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 29, 2013 and March 29, 2015. |
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Most English sources I have seen refer to the encirclement as either the Heiligenbeil Kessel (e.g. Beevor; 300 Google results) or the Heiligenbeil Cauldron (e.g. Duffy; 81 Google results). The latter is, of course, simply a translation of the former (in German it's usually given as Heiligenbeiler Kessel or Kessel von Heiligenbeil). Very occasionally Braunsberg will be mentioned in Heiligenbeil, but the title seems fairly clear to me...? Esdrasbarnevelt ( talk) 09:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
A Google Book search:
A Google Scholar search:
A web Foogle web search (has errors so one has to look at the last page returned):
Some of the pages returned for "Heiligenbeil Kessel" are in reality wikipedia mirrors like this one, so given these numbers I see no reason to move the article from Heiligenbeil Pocket. -- Philip Baird Shearer ( talk) 22:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
A pocket is usually something you are safe in. A cauldron is something you are usually in trouble in. The troops being slaughtered probably felt they were more in a "cauldron" than a "pocket", which might explain why some people chose that translation. North Americans tend to be a little less poetic, and "pocket" is easily understandable as a military term to me. It also benefits from being a neutral point of view, from either inside, or outside, the pocket. I would be interested to know how German speakers view this. Billyshiverstick ( talk) 17:01, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
There are some occasional differences between English and American and I suspect this is one of them: what in the world does "...in full numbers around..." mean? 138.162.128.52 ( talk) 14:10, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
From its title, through most of its detail, to its climax, this article hinges on geography. Without even a general map, this article is very hard to understand. Sorry I don't have the Wiki chops to add one. best regards Billyshiverstick ( talk) 16:53, 29 March 2015 (UTC)