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Could somebody please elaborate on the emergence of modern Hebrew? I assume there were very few native speakers. How did it happen that millions speak the language now? How did it happen that many persons lay to rest their mother language and switched to Hebrew? Thanks.
read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Ben-Yehuda —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.110.219.188 (
talk)
22:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
How about links to English-Hebrew dictionaries which render the Hebrew words in Roman letters? Unless one knows the Hebrew alphabet, the existing links are useless. Tmangray 18:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Here is an English-Hebrew dictionary which has transliterations (Hebrew words in Roman letters) for many words and also has an option for viewing Hebrew words without having Hebrew fonts installed: http://www.dictionary.co.il . None of the dictionaries in the External Links have this option. Would this be a good addition to the list of External Links? Samjordan1968 ( talk) 17:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
A list of respected school teaching ancient Hebrew:
(Please help in filling out this list.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 22:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I keep trying to add the standard books about the history of Hebrew ( ISBN 0521556341, ISBN 0814736904, etc.) and someone or some 'bot keeps removing them. Why?
The first couple of paragraphs could use some citations as well- perhaps just one per paragraph even if it all came from the same place. Bots should be illegal. Swatpig 00:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
i deleted this text:
this is linguistic nonsense, especially the bit about "judeo-sorbian". neither of these are even close to being mainstream linguistic views or appear in any journal. references from personal websites are not credible sources.
Benwing 07:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
You can call it what you like, but just because you don't agree with (or don't understand) Paul Wexler does not give you the right to censor his opinion. And he is not a personal web site. -- Redaktor 00:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
massive relexification/decreolization is not a generally accepted linguistic theory. we don't need to include every fringy idea just because someone said it. Benwing 06:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The mentions of Wexler and Zuckermann were there to raise the question of Europeanization, rather than to advocate their views, and the original paragraph made it clear that they were in a minority (and Zuckermann is less extreme than Wexler). Both are bona fide linguistic scholars: Wexler is cited with respect by Saenz-Badillos and Zuckermann's essay flags a forthcoming book: it is not a question of some lone unscientific crank with a website.
The point is not whether their theories are "true" or "false": they agree with everyone else on questions of verifiable fact, and the issue is one of characterization. All agree that both the vocabulary and the nuts and bolts of accidence are derived from classical Hebrew. The point being made is that a speaker of modern Hebrew sounds less like a native speaker of a live Semitic language such as Arabic than like a foreigner trying to translate into such a language out of a European language, so that you can "hear" the German, Yiddish, English or Polish through it. Whether that affects the "Semitic" categorization of the language is not a question of fact but of point of view. In the same way, no one would deny that French is a Romance language, but there is a strong argument for saying that structurally it is not so much an organic derivative of Vulgar Latin as a creole in which Latin is calqued on Celtic.
I'm clearly not going to win on this; but perhaps we can restore the mention of Zuckermann when his book comes out. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
this is fine with me. mostly what i object to are people who do not have a linguistic background inserting ideas that seem interesting to them in an attempt to give them more credence. i don't know what your background is, but i'm a linguistics grad student, and among most linguists that i know, creolization theories of latin, arabic and the like have a very bad reputation, and they would not agree with your claim that there "is a strong argument" for Latin being a creole. to the extent that linguistics is a science, is is *NOT* just a "point of view" whether a language is a creole; the term "creole" implies a specific sort of historical development, and to argue for such a development you have to present specific evidence showing that this is true. the reason why creolization theories have such a bad reputation is that most of the people making these assertions (e.g. Versteegh for Arabic) have presented limited and often questionable evidence that anything like creolization ever actually happened, and seem to be basing their theories mostly on romantic notions of how things must have proceeded when speakers of different languages came together. Benwing 02:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Now done. I hope you think the current version an improvement. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 10:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Wexler is a credible scholar who has put his views and research into book form at academic presses. This makes him far more credible than the blogosphere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.213.96.171 ( talk) 04:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
do we need to publish every theory out there, regardless of how little support it has? - Yes. As long as it is published. Let not paradigms hold you in tunnelvision. Accept all. Mallerd ( talk) 20:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Someone asked why I believed that German, as opposed to Yiddish, was a significant influence on modern Hebrew, given that so few of the early settlers were German speakers (and many of these did not learn Hebrew). This is largely a matter of impression: especially in the case of academic Hebrew, I can often "hear" the German through it; I may also be biased by the fact that I used to live in Haifa! I think the reason is that, even for the Yiddish-speakers, German was the important academic language, in which a lot of the scholarship about Hebrew and Wissenschaft des Judentums was written; and the tendency of the Haskalah was to bring Yiddish closer to standard German. It's true that in many respects (such as the occasional use of min by older speakers to mean "about") the influence of the two languages is indistinguishable, as they use identical constructions and would be calqued into Hebrew in the same way. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in Zuckermann and was indeed the person who first inserted the mention of him into this article. However, the account of his views is now far too long, as it is twice as long as the account of Wexler and the mainstream put together. I also notice that the article about him has been deleted as non-notable (I personally regret this, but it was after full discussion). Isn't it enough to say that he believes "Israeli" to be a hybrid because of the linguistic background of its founders, and then give links to sites and articles where his view is explained in full? -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 11:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Romantic scholars further contributed to the Aryan myth. Identifying commonalities among Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, and other European languages, Friedrich Schlegel fashioned a misguided linguistic theory that Sanskrit was the shared ancestral language of India and Europe and claimed that this heritage gave the two a foundational unity of thought and worldview. In a similar vein, Max Muller drew from the Rig Veda and other Sanskrit texts then available to derive a linguistic ideal of the Aryan as the founder of European languages, dismissing Jews and the Hebrew language as cut off from European development. For Voltaire, Schlegel, Muller, and other European scholars who contributed to the Aryan fantasy, Jews, along with the Hebrew language, became categorized as "not Aryan," the paramount exemplar of an Aristotelian "not A." Thus, as Figueira astutely observes, mythologizing the Aryan was the culminating move in mythologizing the Jews for European history. Jews became classified as a discarded but necessary Other, against whom the self-striving to live up to the Aryan ideal was defined. Figueira emphasizes that Muller, who figured significantly in popularizing rhe Aryan myth beyond academic circles, strove to distance himself from the racialization of Aryan mythology, but his attempts came too late. Aryan idealization intersected and merged wirh racial theories then spreading throughout Europe, with disastrous consequences for European Jews. Friedrich Nietzsche's contribution to the Aryan myth stands apart in this history. This is in part because, according to Figueira, he used as his principal source a copy of the Laws of Manu, which he was told and erroneously believed ro be the oldest sourcebook of the Aryan world. Like others before him, Nietzsche posited an ancestral Aryan ideal, but he went further than they did to champion the creation of a master race. Still, unlike the explicit anti-Jewish strains of earlier contributors to Aryan mythology, Nietzsche wanted to include Jews in the breeding initiatives that would produce his Ubermensch. Although he charged certain aspects of Jewish history and practice with contributing to cultural degeneracy in the West, Nietzsche admired much about the Jewish people of his day and stood staunchly against German Anti-Semitism.--HIZKIAH ( User • Talk) 11:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
In the lead of the article it says that Hebrew is spoken by over seven million people, but then on the side bar it lists the number of speakers as around 15 million. So technically the first sentence is true, but there's an obvious discrepancy. Joshdboz 20:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
When I first saw "15 million" speakers I thought, no way. Upon further consideration, I wonder. Through the late sixties, more people left Israel than moved there. While many of them were immigrants who never really learned Hebrew well, many of them were 'veteran' Israelis, who moved back to the US or Europe. So, maybe 10 or even 11 million isn't so off.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimwell ( talk • contribs) 03:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The early estimation is not correct. Non-Jews who live in Israel are estimated as 20% of the Israeli population. A large group of them is the group of non-Jews who immigrated to Israel with a Jewish family member and they may speak Hebrew very well. Out of Israel, Hebrew is spoken by as a foreign language also by Palestinians in the Palestinian authority and by Bedouin in Sinai.
I suggest not giving a one number estimation to the number of Hebrew speakers. You cannot estimate it properly. Eddau ( talk) 20:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
It's not clear to me how this article earned the accolade of 'good article'. A lot of microanalyzing, but unfortunately fails to deliver the big picture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.68.95.65 ( talk) 23:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC).
What about Mexico? it should be listed in the Considerably Minorities List like Panama or Uruguay for example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.16.159.13 ( talk) 21:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC).
I noticed the article lists only four types of liturgical Hebrew. There are more, and Galitzianer Hebrew is the most commonly used pronunciation among Ashkenazim, not what is commonly called Ashkenazi Hebrew. (Going by number of people affiliated with groups that use it in synagogue.) Also, to say Ashkenazi Hebrew was influenced by Yiddish is very simplistic and overlooks the fact that there are 3 or more dialects of Yiddish, and 3 or more pronunciations of Hebrew used by ashkenazim. In the case of SOuthern Yiddish, their Yiddish was "corrupted" by their Hebrew pronunciation, making it far more unintelligable to German speakers than Litvishik Yiddish. Then ther is Dutch Hebrew which pronounces the aying as a NG. Basejumper 18:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Should there logically be two separate articles - one on Ancient Hebrew and one on Modern? Obviously Modern Hebrew is related to Ancient, but it's not the same language.-- Jack Upland 19:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought they were the same language, i.e. Ancient Hebrew words are the same in modern Hebrew but more modern words have been added. If you are a native Hebrew speaker, can't you read the Torah and understand it without having a modern translation? I always thought it was like Ancient vs. modern Greek. Same language, with just a more limited vocabulary. Is this not the case? I agree with the person before, old English which was way way different than modern English today and they are the same article. Ancient Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are the same I see no difference with them. They use the same grammar, punctuation, etc. The only difference is that Modern Hebrew has more vocabulary to fit modern times, that is it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elleng ( talk • contribs) 15:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Very true: if one read the Song of Songs in modern Hebrew one would think that the woman was declaring undying love for her uncle, rejoicing that the autumn has passed (so it is now midwinter!) and begging to be comforted with potatoes. But that is only the same sort of misunderstanding as when modern English people read Chaucer (for example, in Chaucer "girl" means a young person of either sex.)
Nevertheless, the differences between Biblical and modern Hebrew are nothing like those between Ancient and Modern Greek. Modern Greek has lost a great deal of the ancient inflectional system, and many very basic words are different (enas instead of eis for "one", ine instead of esti for "is"): the differences are almost as great as between Latin and Italian, or Sanskrit and Hindi. Absolutely nothing like that has happened in modern Hebrew, which was a conscious revival of the ancient language, albeit with many vocabulary items and turns of phrase borrowed from European languages. The different views on the characterisation of modern Hebrew (including Wexler and Zuckermann) are fairly set out in this article: splitting the article would be to concede that theirs is the only correct view and that the question is no longer open for discussion. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree on the split, because it confuses people who are not familiar with the Hebrew language case in Israel. -- Mahmudmasri ( talk) 08:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I heard that Hebrew means from the other side, other side referring to the other side of the Euphrates. But I don't understand from which side one must look, the mediterranean side or the Iranian side if you will. Can someone help me? Mallerd 16:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, in which language? the Hebrew word for hebrew, Ivrit,does not mean from the other side in hebrew. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.53.54 ( talk) 16:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your explanation :) it is a shame that I can't remember where I've heard it :( I'll put it in wiktionary :) Mallerd ( talk) 18:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh my god, it turns out that it was wiktionary itself that confused me. It was not euphrate, but jordan river,
referring to the Ibri people, known in the Middle East for their place of origin relative to the major culture of the time, they were called Ibri meaning the people from over on the other side of the Jordan river
So, who gave the Ibri people their name? Mallerd ( talk) 18:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Ibri is an exonym. But it also probably referred to a larger group than just the Israelites: hence the laws about a "Hebrew slave" (who, being from an associated group, was treated more favourably than a "Canaanite slave"). Similarly in Roman law "Latins" was a wider category than "Romans", and was used specifically for related Italian peoples who had some but not all of the privileges of citizenship. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 09:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
"Hebrew" (עברית) in Hebrew DOES mean "from the other side" (מעבר). Other side referring to the other side of the Euphrates. This was the language Abraham brought with him when he immigrated from the other side of the Euphrates to Hevron. Moreover, if you remember Joseph story, when Joseph was a slave, his lady master referred to him as "that Hebrew slave" (העבד העברי הזה).
If you have any question about Hebrew, ask it in English on the Hebrew Wikipedia's Help desk. 99.135.92.223 ( talk) 23:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Sirmy, are you suggesting that Ibri could be a term devised by their sovereigns? Many sources about etymology go no further back than Hebrew language (they do say that the Ibri people crossed the Jordan river and not the Euphrates, so perhaps the sovereigns are the Phoenicians, like Stephen G. Brown said). I accept your apology, Dan Pelleg. I am certainly aware of the possibility that a name or any other word for that matter has only the meaning it has today. It is useful however, if you are reading old texts, which I do. see this entry I created, nowadays it is much broader: economy. I still think it's strange that the Ibri people used an exonym to identify themselves. Anonymous contributor, it is certain now that Hebrew does mean "from the other side", my question was who gave the Hebrews their name. Mallerd ( talk) 14:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The word eth should be discussed.
It is said to denote the accusative of the sentence. However, Gesenius (or his editor) in one of his lexicons says on page XCII, he had previously supposed it to be a sign of the accusative, but now thinks it had the significance of 'self' and could be translated in Greek as 'autos'. "The Theological Word Book of the Old Testament" (1980) Harris et al. Moody p83 says 'More important than indicating the accusative the function of 'et is to emphasize the word to which it is attached'.
Equating 'autos' and 'eth seems to be what some manuscipts of Mark 10:7 did in translating the passage from Genesis where 'et is used before 'faher' and 'mother'; some manuscipts have 'autos' in both places.
To go back to Gesenius; he says (pXCII) the word was preserved in the language of common life (and it would be harder to imagine that this is a sign of the accusative; but easy to imagine each speaker adding subjective value to something by emphasising it).
A reference in the index to the Babylonian Talmud, claims that a certain Rabbi was very couragous in saying he didn't know what the word meant. The Babylonian Talmud / translated into English with notes, glossary, and indices, under the editorship of I. Epstein. Publisher London : Soncino Press, [1961] Please see index under eth for the quotation of the brave rabi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.251.66 ( talk) 15:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC) 203.10.59.12 00:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
165.228.160.56 07:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC) In 'Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament scriptures/ translated with additions and corrections from te author's thesaurus and other works by Samuel Prideaux Tregelles', London, Bagster, 1846 p XCII Gesennius or his editor, says, (I think):
"In the Arabic these answer to ,,, ayat(?) ... used reflectively 'I have beaten myself'..." and (this must be Tragelles) this is more probable than that which I lately supposed that et, ot ... are i.q. 'a sign', which however is the opinion of Ewald ...
My own motive is that 'et' is placed before many things (including nominatives) and if it is emphatic it implies value. For example Cain uses it of himself, Daniel uses it of the trouble Israel has received. If we can see value in these things: 'It's all good'. But I am a novice.
In consulting "An introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax" by Bruce K Waltke and M O'Connor, Eisenbrauns, Winona Lake Indiana, 1990 pp177-178; there is the following passage: "...(1) ...sign of the accusative ... (2) More recent grammarians regard it as a marker of emphasis used most often which definite nouns in the accusative role. The apparent occurrences with the nominative are most problematic ... AM Wilson late in the nineteenth century concluded from his exhaustive study of all the occurrences of the debated particle that it had an intensive or reflexive force in some of its occurences. Many grammarians have followed his lead. (reference lists studies of 1955, 1964, 1964, 1973, 1965, 1909, 1976.) On such a view, eth is a weakened emphatic particle corresponding to the English pronoun 'self' ... It resembles Greek 'autos' and latin 'ipse' both sometimes used for emphasis, and like them it can be omitted from the text, without obscuring the grammar. This explanation of the particle's meaning harmonizes well with the facts that the particle is used in Michnaic Hebrew as a demonstrative and is found almost exclusively with determinate nouns."
(I am not a student of this college) 165.228.114.24 01:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
To do with the etemology of the word, Gesennius' Lexicon is available on-line at the 'Blue Letter Bible' and he makes a note at the end of strong's number 834 asher in which he says d and t are often used in demonstratives, wometimes with an added first vowel. Blue Letter Bible. "Dictionary and Word Search for 'aher (Strong's 0834)". Blue Letter Bible. 1996-2007. < http:// cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm? Strongs=H834&Version=KJV >
165.228.114.24
03:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This article does not seem to meet the good article criteria at this time, specifically criteria 2 (b) seems to be lacking. Many parts of this article have unverifiable statements which are not supported by inline citations where they seem to need them. Please see comments at good article reassessment if you would like to improve this article. -- Jayron32| talk| contribs 04:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I want to ad the link www.JewStrong.org but it was removed. I do not understand how this is not relevant to an article about Hebrew...it contains many many more sources that can help with ones research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbabrams2 ( talk • contribs) 23:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
There is definatly something wrong with this section heading (grammatically) but I'm not sure what to change it to. Prior to it's current title, 'Similar to an the adopted Semitic, Canaanite dialect', it was called 'Canaanite dialect' and before that it was known as 'Hebrew as a distinct Canaanite dialect'. What should it changed to? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RMFan1 ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It should remain the same. Since the origin of Hebrew is debated. No one can truly prove that Hebrew was a Canaanite dialect. Some it from: - Aramiac. - Akkadian/Sumerian. - Arabic. According to the Biblical view, it came from older Hebrew, and was the first tongue thus Akkadian/Sumerian were dialects of Hebrew.
We as profession scholars sometimes forget to say netural, when speaking secularally of history, and that we only state the fact, not things that just assumed by most scholars even.
Phoenicans originally spoke a Hamitic (Afro). Here one reference says:
Canaanite Language. Although the Bible record clearly shows the Canaanites to be Hamitic, the majority of reference works speak of them as of Semitic origin. This classification is based on the evidence of a Semitic language spoken by the Canaanites. The evidence most frequently appealed to is the large number of texts found at Ras Shamra (Ugarit) written in a Semitic language or dialect and considered to date from as far back as the 14th century B.C.E. However, Ugarit apparently did not come within the Biblical boundaries of Canaan. An article by A. F. Rainey in The Biblical Archaeologist (1965, p. 105) states that on ethnic, political, and, probably, linguistic bases “it is now clearly a misnomer to call Ugarit a ‘Canaanite’ city.” He gives further evidence to show that “Ugarit and the land of Canaan were separate and distinct political entities.” Hence, these tablets provide no clear rule by which to determine the language of the Canaanites.
Many of the Amarna Tablets found in Egypt do proceed from cities in Canaan proper, and these tablets, predating the Israelite conquest, are written mainly in cuneiform Babylonian, a Semitic language. This, however, was the diplomatic language of the entire Middle East at that time, so that it was used even when writing to the Egyptian court. Thus, it is of considerable interest to note the statement in The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 495) that “the Amarna Letters contain evidence for the opinion that non-Semitic ethnic elements settled in Palestine and Syria at a rather early date, for a number of these letters show a remarkable influence of non-Semitic tongues.” (Italics ours.) The facts are that there is still uncertainty as to the original language spoken by the first inhabitants of Canaan.
It is true, however, that the Bible account itself appears to show that Abraham and his descendants were able to converse with the people of Canaan without the need of an interpreter, and it may also be noted that, while some place-names of a non-Semitic type were used, most of the towns and cities captured by the Israelites already bore Semitic names. Still, Philistine kings in Abraham’s time and also, evidently, David’s time, were called “Abimelech” (Ge 20:2; 21:32; Ps 34:Sup), a thoroughly Semitic name (or title), whereas it is nowhere contended that the Philistines were a Semitic race. So, it would appear that the Canaanite tribes, over a period of some centuries from the time of the confusion of tongues at Babel (Ge 11:8, 9), apparently changed over to a Semitic tongue from their original Hamitic language. This may have been because of their close association with the Aramaic-speaking peoples of Syria, as a result of Mesopotamian domination for a period of time, or for other reasons not now apparent. Such a change would be no greater than that of other ancient nations, such as the ancient Persians, who, though of Indo-European (Japhetic) stock, later adopted the Semitic Aramaean language and writing.
“The language of Canaan” referred to at Isaiah 19:18 would by then (eighth century B.C.E.) be the Hebrew language, the principal language of the land. --
I can understand Hebrew without education .. Hebrew are like Arabic language ...-- 89.138.198.96 ( talk) 04:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanx for ur valuable insight! Xevorim ( talk) 18:42, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a logical flaw in this paragraph: "For example, the word ochlah, her food, is written in the same way as āchěla, she ate, but meteg on the first syllable shows that āchěla is intended" and then "These signs are used, if at all, only in texts with niqqud" – if "meteg" is only used with niqqud, then according to this explanation there's obviously no need for it at all, since the niqqud makes the pronunciation of each word unequivocal. Dan Pelleg ( talk) 23:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Off topic, but worth noting: I have never heard the word ochlah being used as "her food". The inflection is theoretically correct, but it just isn't used in that way. Rather, it would probably be understood as "her eater" or even "(going to) eat her"... (: If you want to say "her food", you can use "mezonah" or simply "ha'ochel shela". -- 87.68.144.37 ( talk) 17:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I think the main article could be improved if there were a sentence or two describing how questions are framed in the Hebrew language. Is the whole sentence uttered at a different tone or pitch, or is it just the last word that is said differently? Does tone, pitch, or intonation have a role in uttering a question whose answer is yes/no, or is there a particle of some kind for that sort of thing? 198.177.27.15 ( talk) 01:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
You should emphasize certian syllable, called syllable stress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 01:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Did Hebrew really cease to be spoken as a native language? I have never understood if this is the case. Aaker ( talk) 21:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
No not really, it more of an adapted language then revived reconstructed. It use allot for and rabbiac rituals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.144.241 ( talk) 20:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the "Dead Language" issue needs to be addressed in this article. It is a common myth that Hebrew was/is a "Dead Language": [ Hebrew and "Dead Language"]. In some cases this myth is almost to the level of anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish propaganda. Is Shakespearean English "dead English"? If not, then even biblical Hebrew (and yes, biblical Hebrew for the modern Israeli is no more difficult than Shakespearean English for the modern English speaker) is not a dead language. Hebrew was constantly written in and developed over the last 2000 years, before the State of Israel. Maybe not spoken, but does that make it a one-time "dead language"? Jimhoward72 ( talk) 11:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know(and I'm a native speaker) there is no uvular trill in standard hebrew (except foreign speakers who mispronounce the uvular fricative). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.130.19.24 ( talk) 13:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
1. Newcastle (presumably upon Tyne, UK) is not a country in any accpetable sense of the word.
2. I highly doubt the assumption that Hebrew is at all spoken in Mongolia. I vow to drink one gallon of cooking oil if there are more than 20 hebrew speakers in the entire country.
To whoever wrote that: what you've written can only be decribed as non sensical. Just as if someone would write that Tibetan is "spoken" in Israel based on the fact that about 20 college students study it every year in college
(AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. IT DOESN'T COUNT ! )
Monkey dog2088 ( talk) 18:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I asked some fairly basic Hebrew questions on the Wikipedia language reference desk on July 20, and most of the questions are still unanswered. Could someone please help? I would really appreciate it! :) — Lowellian ( reply) 08:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a redlinked term, hifil. This is a "verb stem" or something, right? Along with pi'el, nifil, nifal, etc. Can anyone clarify? It is different from "binyan" and "shoresh," isn't it? Kaisershatner ( talk) 19:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
While many scholars hold that the term “Hebrew” in references regarding the first century should be instead read “Aramaic,” there is good reason to believe that the term actually applies to the Hebrew language. And the evidence has been staring them in the face.
- 1. Religious jews around the world have always used Hebrew for liturgical purposes.
- 2. The Torah texts, were read in Hebrew.
- 3. The Religious Samaritans have always used Hebrew. They were estimated to be over 1 million in population at the common era.
- 4. The gospel of Matthew it said written in Hebrew. The Apostle Paul, read, and spoke Hebrew Acts 21:40; 22:2; 26:14, .
- 5. The scriptures, separate Hebrew from Aramiac. As one reference source says, Since the Hebrew Scriptures earlier distinguished between Aramaic (Syrian) and “the Jews’ language” (2Ki 18:26) and since the first-century Jewish historian Josephus, considering this passage of the Bible, speaks of “Aramaic” and “Hebrew” as distinct tongues (Jewish Antiquities, X, 8 [i, 2]), there seems to be no reason for the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures to have said “Hebrew” if they meant Aramaic or Syrian.
- 6. According to bible when Jesus died, the sign post was written in Hebrew, (koine) Greek, and Latin.
- 7. The patterns of Mishnaic Hebrew Quoting another reference: If anything, it is more likely that the Jews became a bilingual people, but with Hebrew prevailing as the preferred tongue. As Dr. Chomsky says of the Mishnaic Hebrew: “This language bears all the earmarks of a typical vernacular employed by peasants, merchants and artisans. . . . On the basis of the available evidence it seems fair to conclude that the Jews were generally conversant, during the period of the Second Commonwealth, especially its latter part, with both languages [Hebrew and Aramaic]. Sometimes they used one, sometimes another.”—Hebrew: The Eternal Language, 1969, pp. 207, 210.
- 8. The strongest evidence, however, favoring the view that Hebrew continued as a living language down into the first century of the Common Era is found in the references to the Hebrew language in the Christian Greek Scriptures. (Joh 5:2; 19:13, 17, 20; 20:16; Re 9:11; 16:16) —Preceding unsigned
- 9. The works of Flavius Josephus were origninally written in Hebrew.
comment added by 72.38.144.241 ( talk) 20:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the names of the Hebrew niqqud should be properly transliterated. I mean if you look at the Hebrew language page, Patāḥ is transcribed patach and on the Niqqud page transcribed patakh. Ṣēreh צירה is transcribed tsere and tzeire...etc. This needs to be fixed.-- Xevorim ( talk) 13:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
That's why I haven't changed them. But you'll notice that even on the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) page the names are transcribed differently. And by the way, use of transliteration would be more accurate, less confusing and not as heavily diacriticized (so to speak) as you show it to be.-- Xevorim ( talk) 21:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
In the "spoken in" list several countries are listed. Sure some individuals may speak Hebrew in these countries and many others, but I do not understand why they are listed. Only Israel should be in that list. What do others think? ( SebastianGS ( talk) 14:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC))
Add Palestine? אנציקלופדיה חופשית לשימוש המזמינה את ציבור הגולשים להשתתף בכתיבתה.-- 86.25.55.33 ( talk) 17:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Providing an example of what spoken Hebrew sounds like would be a good addition to this page, or possibly the Hebrew phonology page (though I think Hebrew_language may be a better spot). It would give visitors a quick way to sample the "flavor" of the language. I have some nice liturgical examples of Hebrew chanting from a Rabbi that might be appropriate, though I need to obtain permission before I can post them. Assuming I (or others) have audio files of spoken Hebrew to contribute, are there any suggestions regarding where to link to them from (page and section)? SteveChervitzTrutane ( talk) 23:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
If We are talking about the same clip, which I am relatively sure we are, I question the usefulness of this clip. With all due respect, this speaker has an extremely thick american accent when speaking the piece. If the piece were spoken by someone who worked harder to approximate the original phonology, or even by a native modern hebrew speaker, it would be a better example. Foreign languages spoken with an american accent just sounds like jibberish no matter from what language. I'm sure that the recording fit its original purpose, but as an example of the spoken language I just don't think it works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.212.110.120 ( talk) 02:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
MOS says not to change the prefix styles, so please don't whoever changed them.-- Ipatrol ( talk) 19:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I propose this part of the article be removed and replaced with something in line with Hebrew. For one, the fringe views about the Gospels having a Hebrew Origin, are not mainstream, and secondly is this an article about Hebrew or about Aramaic? Consider revision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dannyza1981 ( talk • contribs) 15:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I made a change in the box under the "Total speakers" section. It said "7 million in Israel; 195,375 in the United States" and then cited a US Census Bureau table. I changed it to say: "7 million in Israel; 200,000 (approx.) in the United States for whom is primary language in home." But even this number is wrong. The table it cites is the "Ability to Speak English by Language Spoken at Home: 2000." Rather than defining the total number of Hebrew speakers in the US, it is codifying English speakers by their "mama loshon" i.e. the language spoken in the home. That is quite a difference. For example, I speak Hebrew, a language that was not spoken in my home, and would not have been counted in this reading of the statistics. Additionally, I changed "195,375" to "200,000 (approx.)" because it's a rather imprecise comparison to the "7 million" Hebrew speakers in Israel in the line above it. -- Batya7 ( talk) 23:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I amended it from "holy language" to "language of holiness" with the comment that the latter is more accurate. Redaktor reverted my translation, commenting "literal translation is not the most accurate". Conceding that "language of holiness" may be lacking, I tried again with "language of the sacred". Although it's relatively trivial, there is a distinction between "holy language" and "language of the holy". The former implies that the language itself is holy; the latter implies that the language is used in/of holy works. The Hebrew is unambiguous about this distinction: "holy language" would be "halashon hakadosh", with two or no definite articles, but not with just one, and with different vowelization of k-d-sh. This is too small a point to get into an edit war over, so if my change gets reverted, I do not think I shall bother changing it back, but I wanted to set forth the evidence. JudahH ( talk) 07:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I added a new subsection Hebrew_language#Religious_point_of_view, about the importance of Hebrew according to the Jewish religion.
So far this section contains only 2 statements (and their sources). One about Hebrew being the language of creation, and one that Hebrew was the language before the dispersion.
This subsection surely can be developed into a fullfledged section. I as well will add some more information soon. Debresser ( talk) 18:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
What's the final decision? I'm talking about the very beginning of the article. In the table on the right it says Iraqis say /ʕibrit/ or something with /b/. But regardless, in what system is this "ʕ" if not IPA or the ISO259-3 with some of my own additions? No one undid my "ʕibrit" till someone only changed it to "ʕivrit". It's neither to here nor to there. This is an article about Hebrew throughout the generations isn't it? What does Hebrew naming convention says about such a case? Whatever that would be, something needs to be done with what comes right after that, which is just weird. The modern word "Hebrew" maybe comes from "ivri" (is this modern Israeli Hebrew transcription?), that maybe just maybe comes from the word "`avar" (where did the ` suddenly came from?). Ly362 ( talk) 04:33, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Someone is repeatedly editing this page to contain derogatory terms in replacement for 'Hebrew' and 'Jewish' and so on. I recommend we either ban them, or block their IP or something, but I'm unsure of how to go about doing this and cannot figure out how to report such things. Hopefully this discussion entry will get the ball rolling... -- Pyry ( talk) 15:28, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
They can easily change their IP. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
94.219.224.238 (
talk)
15:42, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I replaced the unsourced "7 million" speakers in Israel with a referenced number from Ethnologue "4,850,000 (1998)". This number needs a referenced source. The population of Israel is not a reliable source for the number of native speakers of Hebrew since not all Israelis speak Hebrew natively. ( Taivo ( talk) 04:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC))
It's hard for me to miss the obvious similarity between the Hebrew shesh and the Latin sex - both meaning "six". Is this just a fortuitous coincidence? Or does it represent one language family having dominance (perhaps economic dominance) over the other, causing one to borrow the word from the other? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 00:08, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be economic dominance it could be taboo-avoidance, and then borrowing somebody else's word for six (in this instance, Latin's sex, to avoid the taboo. Has anyone done any research connecting shesh with similar words? There's also something peculiar about the number of syllables involved. Shesh is the only monosyllabic number word (well, monosyllabic in the feminine gender, right?). Although shtayim *can* be monosyllabic, wasn't it originally disyllabic? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 06:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the main article would be improved if someone described the difference between the Hebrew conjunction ke- ("as") and the Classical Latin emphatic conjunction ceu ("just as" or "exactly as").
Is there a connection between these words, or is it just coincidental? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 02:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
"Hebrew uses a number of one-letter prefixes that are added to words for various purposes."
The section on "Hebrew Writing" was very weak. There is a reference to the better, more detailed article already so the weak detail here was unnecessary. For example, the section on pronunciation was very poor. Whose pronunciation? There are at least half a dozen different pronunciations for the letters of Old Hebrew (which went extinct as a spoken language long ago). If the Modern Hebrew pronunciation was meant, then the notes "Israelis call it X" were totally unnecessary since they are the only native speakers and it's their alphabet (they can call the letters "Alfred" and "Bob" if they want and they will always be right). The half-baked description of Hebrew orthography was not as useful as the reference to the other article. ( Taivo ( talk) 17:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
I am having some trouble with the part of the main page that mentions triliteral roots. Maybe it's "true" for people writing Hebrew in the Hebrew script. It may even seem self-evident to speakers of the language who view the language purely from the position of the writing system that is most frequently associated with it. But to me, this appears to be an illusion of the writing system, and not necessarily a feature that is part of the spoken language.
It's a trivial point of Semitic grammar, best discussed at triliteral, and at Proto-Semitic. I think Modern Hebrew grammar has significantly moved away from Classical Hebrew, due to the influence of the large (overwhelming) number of speakers with Indo-European first languages. This is why we need a clear distinction of Classical Hebrew grammar from Modern Hebrew grammar, which this article so far mostly fails to make. -- dab (𒁳) 14:04, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
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Could somebody please elaborate on the emergence of modern Hebrew? I assume there were very few native speakers. How did it happen that millions speak the language now? How did it happen that many persons lay to rest their mother language and switched to Hebrew? Thanks.
read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliezer_Ben-Yehuda —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
84.110.219.188 (
talk)
22:36, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
How about links to English-Hebrew dictionaries which render the Hebrew words in Roman letters? Unless one knows the Hebrew alphabet, the existing links are useless. Tmangray 18:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Here is an English-Hebrew dictionary which has transliterations (Hebrew words in Roman letters) for many words and also has an option for viewing Hebrew words without having Hebrew fonts installed: http://www.dictionary.co.il . None of the dictionaries in the External Links have this option. Would this be a good addition to the list of External Links? Samjordan1968 ( talk) 17:42, 13 December 2008 (UTC)
A list of respected school teaching ancient Hebrew:
(Please help in filling out this list.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 22:38, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
I keep trying to add the standard books about the history of Hebrew ( ISBN 0521556341, ISBN 0814736904, etc.) and someone or some 'bot keeps removing them. Why?
The first couple of paragraphs could use some citations as well- perhaps just one per paragraph even if it all came from the same place. Bots should be illegal. Swatpig 00:23, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
i deleted this text:
this is linguistic nonsense, especially the bit about "judeo-sorbian". neither of these are even close to being mainstream linguistic views or appear in any journal. references from personal websites are not credible sources.
Benwing 07:37, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
You can call it what you like, but just because you don't agree with (or don't understand) Paul Wexler does not give you the right to censor his opinion. And he is not a personal web site. -- Redaktor 00:04, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
massive relexification/decreolization is not a generally accepted linguistic theory. we don't need to include every fringy idea just because someone said it. Benwing 06:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
The mentions of Wexler and Zuckermann were there to raise the question of Europeanization, rather than to advocate their views, and the original paragraph made it clear that they were in a minority (and Zuckermann is less extreme than Wexler). Both are bona fide linguistic scholars: Wexler is cited with respect by Saenz-Badillos and Zuckermann's essay flags a forthcoming book: it is not a question of some lone unscientific crank with a website.
The point is not whether their theories are "true" or "false": they agree with everyone else on questions of verifiable fact, and the issue is one of characterization. All agree that both the vocabulary and the nuts and bolts of accidence are derived from classical Hebrew. The point being made is that a speaker of modern Hebrew sounds less like a native speaker of a live Semitic language such as Arabic than like a foreigner trying to translate into such a language out of a European language, so that you can "hear" the German, Yiddish, English or Polish through it. Whether that affects the "Semitic" categorization of the language is not a question of fact but of point of view. In the same way, no one would deny that French is a Romance language, but there is a strong argument for saying that structurally it is not so much an organic derivative of Vulgar Latin as a creole in which Latin is calqued on Celtic.
I'm clearly not going to win on this; but perhaps we can restore the mention of Zuckermann when his book comes out. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 10:03, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
this is fine with me. mostly what i object to are people who do not have a linguistic background inserting ideas that seem interesting to them in an attempt to give them more credence. i don't know what your background is, but i'm a linguistics grad student, and among most linguists that i know, creolization theories of latin, arabic and the like have a very bad reputation, and they would not agree with your claim that there "is a strong argument" for Latin being a creole. to the extent that linguistics is a science, is is *NOT* just a "point of view" whether a language is a creole; the term "creole" implies a specific sort of historical development, and to argue for such a development you have to present specific evidence showing that this is true. the reason why creolization theories have such a bad reputation is that most of the people making these assertions (e.g. Versteegh for Arabic) have presented limited and often questionable evidence that anything like creolization ever actually happened, and seem to be basing their theories mostly on romantic notions of how things must have proceeded when speakers of different languages came together. Benwing 02:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Now done. I hope you think the current version an improvement. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 10:17, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Wexler is a credible scholar who has put his views and research into book form at academic presses. This makes him far more credible than the blogosphere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.213.96.171 ( talk) 04:08, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
do we need to publish every theory out there, regardless of how little support it has? - Yes. As long as it is published. Let not paradigms hold you in tunnelvision. Accept all. Mallerd ( talk) 20:33, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
Someone asked why I believed that German, as opposed to Yiddish, was a significant influence on modern Hebrew, given that so few of the early settlers were German speakers (and many of these did not learn Hebrew). This is largely a matter of impression: especially in the case of academic Hebrew, I can often "hear" the German through it; I may also be biased by the fact that I used to live in Haifa! I think the reason is that, even for the Yiddish-speakers, German was the important academic language, in which a lot of the scholarship about Hebrew and Wissenschaft des Judentums was written; and the tendency of the Haskalah was to bring Yiddish closer to standard German. It's true that in many respects (such as the occasional use of min by older speakers to mean "about") the influence of the two languages is indistinguishable, as they use identical constructions and would be calqued into Hebrew in the same way. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
I am interested in Zuckermann and was indeed the person who first inserted the mention of him into this article. However, the account of his views is now far too long, as it is twice as long as the account of Wexler and the mainstream put together. I also notice that the article about him has been deleted as non-notable (I personally regret this, but it was after full discussion). Isn't it enough to say that he believes "Israeli" to be a hybrid because of the linguistic background of its founders, and then give links to sites and articles where his view is explained in full? -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 11:43, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Romantic scholars further contributed to the Aryan myth. Identifying commonalities among Sanskrit, Greek, Latin, and other European languages, Friedrich Schlegel fashioned a misguided linguistic theory that Sanskrit was the shared ancestral language of India and Europe and claimed that this heritage gave the two a foundational unity of thought and worldview. In a similar vein, Max Muller drew from the Rig Veda and other Sanskrit texts then available to derive a linguistic ideal of the Aryan as the founder of European languages, dismissing Jews and the Hebrew language as cut off from European development. For Voltaire, Schlegel, Muller, and other European scholars who contributed to the Aryan fantasy, Jews, along with the Hebrew language, became categorized as "not Aryan," the paramount exemplar of an Aristotelian "not A." Thus, as Figueira astutely observes, mythologizing the Aryan was the culminating move in mythologizing the Jews for European history. Jews became classified as a discarded but necessary Other, against whom the self-striving to live up to the Aryan ideal was defined. Figueira emphasizes that Muller, who figured significantly in popularizing rhe Aryan myth beyond academic circles, strove to distance himself from the racialization of Aryan mythology, but his attempts came too late. Aryan idealization intersected and merged wirh racial theories then spreading throughout Europe, with disastrous consequences for European Jews. Friedrich Nietzsche's contribution to the Aryan myth stands apart in this history. This is in part because, according to Figueira, he used as his principal source a copy of the Laws of Manu, which he was told and erroneously believed ro be the oldest sourcebook of the Aryan world. Like others before him, Nietzsche posited an ancestral Aryan ideal, but he went further than they did to champion the creation of a master race. Still, unlike the explicit anti-Jewish strains of earlier contributors to Aryan mythology, Nietzsche wanted to include Jews in the breeding initiatives that would produce his Ubermensch. Although he charged certain aspects of Jewish history and practice with contributing to cultural degeneracy in the West, Nietzsche admired much about the Jewish people of his day and stood staunchly against German Anti-Semitism.--HIZKIAH ( User • Talk) 11:40, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
In the lead of the article it says that Hebrew is spoken by over seven million people, but then on the side bar it lists the number of speakers as around 15 million. So technically the first sentence is true, but there's an obvious discrepancy. Joshdboz 20:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
When I first saw "15 million" speakers I thought, no way. Upon further consideration, I wonder. Through the late sixties, more people left Israel than moved there. While many of them were immigrants who never really learned Hebrew well, many of them were 'veteran' Israelis, who moved back to the US or Europe. So, maybe 10 or even 11 million isn't so off.~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kimwell ( talk • contribs) 03:37, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
The early estimation is not correct. Non-Jews who live in Israel are estimated as 20% of the Israeli population. A large group of them is the group of non-Jews who immigrated to Israel with a Jewish family member and they may speak Hebrew very well. Out of Israel, Hebrew is spoken by as a foreign language also by Palestinians in the Palestinian authority and by Bedouin in Sinai.
I suggest not giving a one number estimation to the number of Hebrew speakers. You cannot estimate it properly. Eddau ( talk) 20:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
It's not clear to me how this article earned the accolade of 'good article'. A lot of microanalyzing, but unfortunately fails to deliver the big picture. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.68.95.65 ( talk) 23:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC).
What about Mexico? it should be listed in the Considerably Minorities List like Panama or Uruguay for example. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.16.159.13 ( talk) 21:48, 12 May 2007 (UTC).
I noticed the article lists only four types of liturgical Hebrew. There are more, and Galitzianer Hebrew is the most commonly used pronunciation among Ashkenazim, not what is commonly called Ashkenazi Hebrew. (Going by number of people affiliated with groups that use it in synagogue.) Also, to say Ashkenazi Hebrew was influenced by Yiddish is very simplistic and overlooks the fact that there are 3 or more dialects of Yiddish, and 3 or more pronunciations of Hebrew used by ashkenazim. In the case of SOuthern Yiddish, their Yiddish was "corrupted" by their Hebrew pronunciation, making it far more unintelligable to German speakers than Litvishik Yiddish. Then ther is Dutch Hebrew which pronounces the aying as a NG. Basejumper 18:58, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Should there logically be two separate articles - one on Ancient Hebrew and one on Modern? Obviously Modern Hebrew is related to Ancient, but it's not the same language.-- Jack Upland 19:17, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I thought they were the same language, i.e. Ancient Hebrew words are the same in modern Hebrew but more modern words have been added. If you are a native Hebrew speaker, can't you read the Torah and understand it without having a modern translation? I always thought it was like Ancient vs. modern Greek. Same language, with just a more limited vocabulary. Is this not the case? I agree with the person before, old English which was way way different than modern English today and they are the same article. Ancient Hebrew and Modern Hebrew are the same I see no difference with them. They use the same grammar, punctuation, etc. The only difference is that Modern Hebrew has more vocabulary to fit modern times, that is it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elleng ( talk • contribs) 15:15, 14 October 2007 (UTC)
Very true: if one read the Song of Songs in modern Hebrew one would think that the woman was declaring undying love for her uncle, rejoicing that the autumn has passed (so it is now midwinter!) and begging to be comforted with potatoes. But that is only the same sort of misunderstanding as when modern English people read Chaucer (for example, in Chaucer "girl" means a young person of either sex.)
Nevertheless, the differences between Biblical and modern Hebrew are nothing like those between Ancient and Modern Greek. Modern Greek has lost a great deal of the ancient inflectional system, and many very basic words are different (enas instead of eis for "one", ine instead of esti for "is"): the differences are almost as great as between Latin and Italian, or Sanskrit and Hindi. Absolutely nothing like that has happened in modern Hebrew, which was a conscious revival of the ancient language, albeit with many vocabulary items and turns of phrase borrowed from European languages. The different views on the characterisation of modern Hebrew (including Wexler and Zuckermann) are fairly set out in this article: splitting the article would be to concede that theirs is the only correct view and that the question is no longer open for discussion. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:41, 17 October 2007 (UTC)
I agree on the split, because it confuses people who are not familiar with the Hebrew language case in Israel. -- Mahmudmasri ( talk) 08:18, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
I heard that Hebrew means from the other side, other side referring to the other side of the Euphrates. But I don't understand from which side one must look, the mediterranean side or the Iranian side if you will. Can someone help me? Mallerd 16:46, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Well, in which language? the Hebrew word for hebrew, Ivrit,does not mean from the other side in hebrew. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.53.54 ( talk) 16:27, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your explanation :) it is a shame that I can't remember where I've heard it :( I'll put it in wiktionary :) Mallerd ( talk) 18:33, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Oh my god, it turns out that it was wiktionary itself that confused me. It was not euphrate, but jordan river,
referring to the Ibri people, known in the Middle East for their place of origin relative to the major culture of the time, they were called Ibri meaning the people from over on the other side of the Jordan river
So, who gave the Ibri people their name? Mallerd ( talk) 18:41, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
Ibri is an exonym. But it also probably referred to a larger group than just the Israelites: hence the laws about a "Hebrew slave" (who, being from an associated group, was treated more favourably than a "Canaanite slave"). Similarly in Roman law "Latins" was a wider category than "Romans", and was used specifically for related Italian peoples who had some but not all of the privileges of citizenship. -- Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) ( talk) 09:14, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
"Hebrew" (עברית) in Hebrew DOES mean "from the other side" (מעבר). Other side referring to the other side of the Euphrates. This was the language Abraham brought with him when he immigrated from the other side of the Euphrates to Hevron. Moreover, if you remember Joseph story, when Joseph was a slave, his lady master referred to him as "that Hebrew slave" (העבד העברי הזה).
If you have any question about Hebrew, ask it in English on the Hebrew Wikipedia's Help desk. 99.135.92.223 ( talk) 23:30, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks Sirmy, are you suggesting that Ibri could be a term devised by their sovereigns? Many sources about etymology go no further back than Hebrew language (they do say that the Ibri people crossed the Jordan river and not the Euphrates, so perhaps the sovereigns are the Phoenicians, like Stephen G. Brown said). I accept your apology, Dan Pelleg. I am certainly aware of the possibility that a name or any other word for that matter has only the meaning it has today. It is useful however, if you are reading old texts, which I do. see this entry I created, nowadays it is much broader: economy. I still think it's strange that the Ibri people used an exonym to identify themselves. Anonymous contributor, it is certain now that Hebrew does mean "from the other side", my question was who gave the Hebrews their name. Mallerd ( talk) 14:39, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
The word eth should be discussed.
It is said to denote the accusative of the sentence. However, Gesenius (or his editor) in one of his lexicons says on page XCII, he had previously supposed it to be a sign of the accusative, but now thinks it had the significance of 'self' and could be translated in Greek as 'autos'. "The Theological Word Book of the Old Testament" (1980) Harris et al. Moody p83 says 'More important than indicating the accusative the function of 'et is to emphasize the word to which it is attached'.
Equating 'autos' and 'eth seems to be what some manuscipts of Mark 10:7 did in translating the passage from Genesis where 'et is used before 'faher' and 'mother'; some manuscipts have 'autos' in both places.
To go back to Gesenius; he says (pXCII) the word was preserved in the language of common life (and it would be harder to imagine that this is a sign of the accusative; but easy to imagine each speaker adding subjective value to something by emphasising it).
A reference in the index to the Babylonian Talmud, claims that a certain Rabbi was very couragous in saying he didn't know what the word meant. The Babylonian Talmud / translated into English with notes, glossary, and indices, under the editorship of I. Epstein. Publisher London : Soncino Press, [1961] Please see index under eth for the quotation of the brave rabi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.181.251.66 ( talk) 15:20, 1 October 2007 (UTC) 203.10.59.12 00:59, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
165.228.160.56 07:47, 15 September 2007 (UTC) In 'Hebrew and Chaldee lexicon to the Old Testament scriptures/ translated with additions and corrections from te author's thesaurus and other works by Samuel Prideaux Tregelles', London, Bagster, 1846 p XCII Gesennius or his editor, says, (I think):
"In the Arabic these answer to ,,, ayat(?) ... used reflectively 'I have beaten myself'..." and (this must be Tragelles) this is more probable than that which I lately supposed that et, ot ... are i.q. 'a sign', which however is the opinion of Ewald ...
My own motive is that 'et' is placed before many things (including nominatives) and if it is emphatic it implies value. For example Cain uses it of himself, Daniel uses it of the trouble Israel has received. If we can see value in these things: 'It's all good'. But I am a novice.
In consulting "An introduction to Biblical Hebrew Syntax" by Bruce K Waltke and M O'Connor, Eisenbrauns, Winona Lake Indiana, 1990 pp177-178; there is the following passage: "...(1) ...sign of the accusative ... (2) More recent grammarians regard it as a marker of emphasis used most often which definite nouns in the accusative role. The apparent occurrences with the nominative are most problematic ... AM Wilson late in the nineteenth century concluded from his exhaustive study of all the occurrences of the debated particle that it had an intensive or reflexive force in some of its occurences. Many grammarians have followed his lead. (reference lists studies of 1955, 1964, 1964, 1973, 1965, 1909, 1976.) On such a view, eth is a weakened emphatic particle corresponding to the English pronoun 'self' ... It resembles Greek 'autos' and latin 'ipse' both sometimes used for emphasis, and like them it can be omitted from the text, without obscuring the grammar. This explanation of the particle's meaning harmonizes well with the facts that the particle is used in Michnaic Hebrew as a demonstrative and is found almost exclusively with determinate nouns."
(I am not a student of this college) 165.228.114.24 01:01, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
To do with the etemology of the word, Gesennius' Lexicon is available on-line at the 'Blue Letter Bible' and he makes a note at the end of strong's number 834 asher in which he says d and t are often used in demonstratives, wometimes with an added first vowel. Blue Letter Bible. "Dictionary and Word Search for 'aher (Strong's 0834)". Blue Letter Bible. 1996-2007. < http:// cf.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm? Strongs=H834&Version=KJV >
165.228.114.24
03:22, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
This article does not seem to meet the good article criteria at this time, specifically criteria 2 (b) seems to be lacking. Many parts of this article have unverifiable statements which are not supported by inline citations where they seem to need them. Please see comments at good article reassessment if you would like to improve this article. -- Jayron32| talk| contribs 04:03, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I want to ad the link www.JewStrong.org but it was removed. I do not understand how this is not relevant to an article about Hebrew...it contains many many more sources that can help with ones research. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jbabrams2 ( talk • contribs) 23:07, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
There is definatly something wrong with this section heading (grammatically) but I'm not sure what to change it to. Prior to it's current title, 'Similar to an the adopted Semitic, Canaanite dialect', it was called 'Canaanite dialect' and before that it was known as 'Hebrew as a distinct Canaanite dialect'. What should it changed to? —Preceding unsigned comment added by RMFan1 ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
It should remain the same. Since the origin of Hebrew is debated. No one can truly prove that Hebrew was a Canaanite dialect. Some it from: - Aramiac. - Akkadian/Sumerian. - Arabic. According to the Biblical view, it came from older Hebrew, and was the first tongue thus Akkadian/Sumerian were dialects of Hebrew.
We as profession scholars sometimes forget to say netural, when speaking secularally of history, and that we only state the fact, not things that just assumed by most scholars even.
Phoenicans originally spoke a Hamitic (Afro). Here one reference says:
Canaanite Language. Although the Bible record clearly shows the Canaanites to be Hamitic, the majority of reference works speak of them as of Semitic origin. This classification is based on the evidence of a Semitic language spoken by the Canaanites. The evidence most frequently appealed to is the large number of texts found at Ras Shamra (Ugarit) written in a Semitic language or dialect and considered to date from as far back as the 14th century B.C.E. However, Ugarit apparently did not come within the Biblical boundaries of Canaan. An article by A. F. Rainey in The Biblical Archaeologist (1965, p. 105) states that on ethnic, political, and, probably, linguistic bases “it is now clearly a misnomer to call Ugarit a ‘Canaanite’ city.” He gives further evidence to show that “Ugarit and the land of Canaan were separate and distinct political entities.” Hence, these tablets provide no clear rule by which to determine the language of the Canaanites.
Many of the Amarna Tablets found in Egypt do proceed from cities in Canaan proper, and these tablets, predating the Israelite conquest, are written mainly in cuneiform Babylonian, a Semitic language. This, however, was the diplomatic language of the entire Middle East at that time, so that it was used even when writing to the Egyptian court. Thus, it is of considerable interest to note the statement in The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (edited by G. A. Buttrick, 1962, Vol. 1, p. 495) that “the Amarna Letters contain evidence for the opinion that non-Semitic ethnic elements settled in Palestine and Syria at a rather early date, for a number of these letters show a remarkable influence of non-Semitic tongues.” (Italics ours.) The facts are that there is still uncertainty as to the original language spoken by the first inhabitants of Canaan.
It is true, however, that the Bible account itself appears to show that Abraham and his descendants were able to converse with the people of Canaan without the need of an interpreter, and it may also be noted that, while some place-names of a non-Semitic type were used, most of the towns and cities captured by the Israelites already bore Semitic names. Still, Philistine kings in Abraham’s time and also, evidently, David’s time, were called “Abimelech” (Ge 20:2; 21:32; Ps 34:Sup), a thoroughly Semitic name (or title), whereas it is nowhere contended that the Philistines were a Semitic race. So, it would appear that the Canaanite tribes, over a period of some centuries from the time of the confusion of tongues at Babel (Ge 11:8, 9), apparently changed over to a Semitic tongue from their original Hamitic language. This may have been because of their close association with the Aramaic-speaking peoples of Syria, as a result of Mesopotamian domination for a period of time, or for other reasons not now apparent. Such a change would be no greater than that of other ancient nations, such as the ancient Persians, who, though of Indo-European (Japhetic) stock, later adopted the Semitic Aramaean language and writing.
“The language of Canaan” referred to at Isaiah 19:18 would by then (eighth century B.C.E.) be the Hebrew language, the principal language of the land. --
I can understand Hebrew without education .. Hebrew are like Arabic language ...-- 89.138.198.96 ( talk) 04:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanx for ur valuable insight! Xevorim ( talk) 18:42, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a logical flaw in this paragraph: "For example, the word ochlah, her food, is written in the same way as āchěla, she ate, but meteg on the first syllable shows that āchěla is intended" and then "These signs are used, if at all, only in texts with niqqud" – if "meteg" is only used with niqqud, then according to this explanation there's obviously no need for it at all, since the niqqud makes the pronunciation of each word unequivocal. Dan Pelleg ( talk) 23:50, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
Off topic, but worth noting: I have never heard the word ochlah being used as "her food". The inflection is theoretically correct, but it just isn't used in that way. Rather, it would probably be understood as "her eater" or even "(going to) eat her"... (: If you want to say "her food", you can use "mezonah" or simply "ha'ochel shela". -- 87.68.144.37 ( talk) 17:14, 11 November 2008 (UTC)
I think the main article could be improved if there were a sentence or two describing how questions are framed in the Hebrew language. Is the whole sentence uttered at a different tone or pitch, or is it just the last word that is said differently? Does tone, pitch, or intonation have a role in uttering a question whose answer is yes/no, or is there a particle of some kind for that sort of thing? 198.177.27.15 ( talk) 01:12, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
You should emphasize certian syllable, called syllable stress. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.211.144 ( talk) 01:35, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
Did Hebrew really cease to be spoken as a native language? I have never understood if this is the case. Aaker ( talk) 21:09, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
No not really, it more of an adapted language then revived reconstructed. It use allot for and rabbiac rituals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.38.144.241 ( talk) 20:39, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the "Dead Language" issue needs to be addressed in this article. It is a common myth that Hebrew was/is a "Dead Language": [ Hebrew and "Dead Language"]. In some cases this myth is almost to the level of anti-Israeli or anti-Jewish propaganda. Is Shakespearean English "dead English"? If not, then even biblical Hebrew (and yes, biblical Hebrew for the modern Israeli is no more difficult than Shakespearean English for the modern English speaker) is not a dead language. Hebrew was constantly written in and developed over the last 2000 years, before the State of Israel. Maybe not spoken, but does that make it a one-time "dead language"? Jimhoward72 ( talk) 11:56, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As far as I know(and I'm a native speaker) there is no uvular trill in standard hebrew (except foreign speakers who mispronounce the uvular fricative). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.130.19.24 ( talk) 13:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
1. Newcastle (presumably upon Tyne, UK) is not a country in any accpetable sense of the word.
2. I highly doubt the assumption that Hebrew is at all spoken in Mongolia. I vow to drink one gallon of cooking oil if there are more than 20 hebrew speakers in the entire country.
To whoever wrote that: what you've written can only be decribed as non sensical. Just as if someone would write that Tibetan is "spoken" in Israel based on the fact that about 20 college students study it every year in college
(AND THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. IT DOESN'T COUNT ! )
Monkey dog2088 ( talk) 18:27, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I asked some fairly basic Hebrew questions on the Wikipedia language reference desk on July 20, and most of the questions are still unanswered. Could someone please help? I would really appreciate it! :) — Lowellian ( reply) 08:23, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
I have a redlinked term, hifil. This is a "verb stem" or something, right? Along with pi'el, nifil, nifal, etc. Can anyone clarify? It is different from "binyan" and "shoresh," isn't it? Kaisershatner ( talk) 19:31, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
While many scholars hold that the term “Hebrew” in references regarding the first century should be instead read “Aramaic,” there is good reason to believe that the term actually applies to the Hebrew language. And the evidence has been staring them in the face.
- 1. Religious jews around the world have always used Hebrew for liturgical purposes.
- 2. The Torah texts, were read in Hebrew.
- 3. The Religious Samaritans have always used Hebrew. They were estimated to be over 1 million in population at the common era.
- 4. The gospel of Matthew it said written in Hebrew. The Apostle Paul, read, and spoke Hebrew Acts 21:40; 22:2; 26:14, .
- 5. The scriptures, separate Hebrew from Aramiac. As one reference source says, Since the Hebrew Scriptures earlier distinguished between Aramaic (Syrian) and “the Jews’ language” (2Ki 18:26) and since the first-century Jewish historian Josephus, considering this passage of the Bible, speaks of “Aramaic” and “Hebrew” as distinct tongues (Jewish Antiquities, X, 8 [i, 2]), there seems to be no reason for the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures to have said “Hebrew” if they meant Aramaic or Syrian.
- 6. According to bible when Jesus died, the sign post was written in Hebrew, (koine) Greek, and Latin.
- 7. The patterns of Mishnaic Hebrew Quoting another reference: If anything, it is more likely that the Jews became a bilingual people, but with Hebrew prevailing as the preferred tongue. As Dr. Chomsky says of the Mishnaic Hebrew: “This language bears all the earmarks of a typical vernacular employed by peasants, merchants and artisans. . . . On the basis of the available evidence it seems fair to conclude that the Jews were generally conversant, during the period of the Second Commonwealth, especially its latter part, with both languages [Hebrew and Aramaic]. Sometimes they used one, sometimes another.”—Hebrew: The Eternal Language, 1969, pp. 207, 210.
- 8. The strongest evidence, however, favoring the view that Hebrew continued as a living language down into the first century of the Common Era is found in the references to the Hebrew language in the Christian Greek Scriptures. (Joh 5:2; 19:13, 17, 20; 20:16; Re 9:11; 16:16) —Preceding unsigned
- 9. The works of Flavius Josephus were origninally written in Hebrew.
comment added by 72.38.144.241 ( talk) 20:48, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
I think the names of the Hebrew niqqud should be properly transliterated. I mean if you look at the Hebrew language page, Patāḥ is transcribed patach and on the Niqqud page transcribed patakh. Ṣēreh צירה is transcribed tsere and tzeire...etc. This needs to be fixed.-- Xevorim ( talk) 13:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
That's why I haven't changed them. But you'll notice that even on the Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Hebrew) page the names are transcribed differently. And by the way, use of transliteration would be more accurate, less confusing and not as heavily diacriticized (so to speak) as you show it to be.-- Xevorim ( talk) 21:48, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
In the "spoken in" list several countries are listed. Sure some individuals may speak Hebrew in these countries and many others, but I do not understand why they are listed. Only Israel should be in that list. What do others think? ( SebastianGS ( talk) 14:50, 13 September 2008 (UTC))
Add Palestine? אנציקלופדיה חופשית לשימוש המזמינה את ציבור הגולשים להשתתף בכתיבתה.-- 86.25.55.33 ( talk) 17:10, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
Providing an example of what spoken Hebrew sounds like would be a good addition to this page, or possibly the Hebrew phonology page (though I think Hebrew_language may be a better spot). It would give visitors a quick way to sample the "flavor" of the language. I have some nice liturgical examples of Hebrew chanting from a Rabbi that might be appropriate, though I need to obtain permission before I can post them. Assuming I (or others) have audio files of spoken Hebrew to contribute, are there any suggestions regarding where to link to them from (page and section)? SteveChervitzTrutane ( talk) 23:38, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
If We are talking about the same clip, which I am relatively sure we are, I question the usefulness of this clip. With all due respect, this speaker has an extremely thick american accent when speaking the piece. If the piece were spoken by someone who worked harder to approximate the original phonology, or even by a native modern hebrew speaker, it would be a better example. Foreign languages spoken with an american accent just sounds like jibberish no matter from what language. I'm sure that the recording fit its original purpose, but as an example of the spoken language I just don't think it works. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.212.110.120 ( talk) 02:02, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
MOS says not to change the prefix styles, so please don't whoever changed them.-- Ipatrol ( talk) 19:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I propose this part of the article be removed and replaced with something in line with Hebrew. For one, the fringe views about the Gospels having a Hebrew Origin, are not mainstream, and secondly is this an article about Hebrew or about Aramaic? Consider revision. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dannyza1981 ( talk • contribs) 15:31, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
I made a change in the box under the "Total speakers" section. It said "7 million in Israel; 195,375 in the United States" and then cited a US Census Bureau table. I changed it to say: "7 million in Israel; 200,000 (approx.) in the United States for whom is primary language in home." But even this number is wrong. The table it cites is the "Ability to Speak English by Language Spoken at Home: 2000." Rather than defining the total number of Hebrew speakers in the US, it is codifying English speakers by their "mama loshon" i.e. the language spoken in the home. That is quite a difference. For example, I speak Hebrew, a language that was not spoken in my home, and would not have been counted in this reading of the statistics. Additionally, I changed "195,375" to "200,000 (approx.)" because it's a rather imprecise comparison to the "7 million" Hebrew speakers in Israel in the line above it. -- Batya7 ( talk) 23:03, 25 February 2009 (UTC)
I amended it from "holy language" to "language of holiness" with the comment that the latter is more accurate. Redaktor reverted my translation, commenting "literal translation is not the most accurate". Conceding that "language of holiness" may be lacking, I tried again with "language of the sacred". Although it's relatively trivial, there is a distinction between "holy language" and "language of the holy". The former implies that the language itself is holy; the latter implies that the language is used in/of holy works. The Hebrew is unambiguous about this distinction: "holy language" would be "halashon hakadosh", with two or no definite articles, but not with just one, and with different vowelization of k-d-sh. This is too small a point to get into an edit war over, so if my change gets reverted, I do not think I shall bother changing it back, but I wanted to set forth the evidence. JudahH ( talk) 07:50, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
I added a new subsection Hebrew_language#Religious_point_of_view, about the importance of Hebrew according to the Jewish religion.
So far this section contains only 2 statements (and their sources). One about Hebrew being the language of creation, and one that Hebrew was the language before the dispersion.
This subsection surely can be developed into a fullfledged section. I as well will add some more information soon. Debresser ( talk) 18:40, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
What's the final decision? I'm talking about the very beginning of the article. In the table on the right it says Iraqis say /ʕibrit/ or something with /b/. But regardless, in what system is this "ʕ" if not IPA or the ISO259-3 with some of my own additions? No one undid my "ʕibrit" till someone only changed it to "ʕivrit". It's neither to here nor to there. This is an article about Hebrew throughout the generations isn't it? What does Hebrew naming convention says about such a case? Whatever that would be, something needs to be done with what comes right after that, which is just weird. The modern word "Hebrew" maybe comes from "ivri" (is this modern Israeli Hebrew transcription?), that maybe just maybe comes from the word "`avar" (where did the ` suddenly came from?). Ly362 ( talk) 04:33, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Someone is repeatedly editing this page to contain derogatory terms in replacement for 'Hebrew' and 'Jewish' and so on. I recommend we either ban them, or block their IP or something, but I'm unsure of how to go about doing this and cannot figure out how to report such things. Hopefully this discussion entry will get the ball rolling... -- Pyry ( talk) 15:28, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
They can easily change their IP. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
94.219.224.238 (
talk)
15:42, 28 December 2009 (UTC)
I replaced the unsourced "7 million" speakers in Israel with a referenced number from Ethnologue "4,850,000 (1998)". This number needs a referenced source. The population of Israel is not a reliable source for the number of native speakers of Hebrew since not all Israelis speak Hebrew natively. ( Taivo ( talk) 04:53, 23 December 2009 (UTC))
It's hard for me to miss the obvious similarity between the Hebrew shesh and the Latin sex - both meaning "six". Is this just a fortuitous coincidence? Or does it represent one language family having dominance (perhaps economic dominance) over the other, causing one to borrow the word from the other? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 00:08, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't have to be economic dominance it could be taboo-avoidance, and then borrowing somebody else's word for six (in this instance, Latin's sex, to avoid the taboo. Has anyone done any research connecting shesh with similar words? There's also something peculiar about the number of syllables involved. Shesh is the only monosyllabic number word (well, monosyllabic in the feminine gender, right?). Although shtayim *can* be monosyllabic, wasn't it originally disyllabic? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 06:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
I think the main article would be improved if someone described the difference between the Hebrew conjunction ke- ("as") and the Classical Latin emphatic conjunction ceu ("just as" or "exactly as").
Is there a connection between these words, or is it just coincidental? Dexter Nextnumber ( talk) 02:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
"Hebrew uses a number of one-letter prefixes that are added to words for various purposes."
The section on "Hebrew Writing" was very weak. There is a reference to the better, more detailed article already so the weak detail here was unnecessary. For example, the section on pronunciation was very poor. Whose pronunciation? There are at least half a dozen different pronunciations for the letters of Old Hebrew (which went extinct as a spoken language long ago). If the Modern Hebrew pronunciation was meant, then the notes "Israelis call it X" were totally unnecessary since they are the only native speakers and it's their alphabet (they can call the letters "Alfred" and "Bob" if they want and they will always be right). The half-baked description of Hebrew orthography was not as useful as the reference to the other article. ( Taivo ( talk) 17:58, 11 January 2010 (UTC))
I am having some trouble with the part of the main page that mentions triliteral roots. Maybe it's "true" for people writing Hebrew in the Hebrew script. It may even seem self-evident to speakers of the language who view the language purely from the position of the writing system that is most frequently associated with it. But to me, this appears to be an illusion of the writing system, and not necessarily a feature that is part of the spoken language.
It's a trivial point of Semitic grammar, best discussed at triliteral, and at Proto-Semitic. I think Modern Hebrew grammar has significantly moved away from Classical Hebrew, due to the influence of the large (overwhelming) number of speakers with Indo-European first languages. This is why we need a clear distinction of Classical Hebrew grammar from Modern Hebrew grammar, which this article so far mostly fails to make. -- dab (𒁳) 14:04, 13 December 2010 (UTC)