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Moved anon. contribution here until someone can take a look at the book for relevance to Heber C. Kimball. WBardwin 22:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
LDS oriented articles often ignore a person's career or life work in favor of their religious contributions. Many of our early GA's were accomplished in one or more fields and made a living for their families while serving in the church. Should we balance the articles by giving more prominence to the secular work of these men?
A recent edit removed HCKimball from the potters category (one of several professsions he had during his life). I restored him for now. Kimball spoke often about the allegory of the potter and the clay - he knew what he was talking about. Excerpt below:
WBardwin 05:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the discussion of his earlier career in pottery is entirely appropriate in the article, and that someone who had found this article might be interested to know that. But I was thinking in terms of a reader going to the American Potters category. I think that person would expect that the people listed there were people who were well known for their pottery, or else people who are so commonly known that they would be interested to know that person was a potter. HCK doesn't seem to fall in either category. -- Paul Stokstad 19:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Contribution moved here for discussion. Descendants of other LDS General authorities are sometimes listed, but usually when they also were prominent in church service. Should we include the following? WBardwin 05:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
This article has his apostleship ending when he joined the 1st Presidency. This is inconsistant with some other Mormon apostleships are dated. See Gordon B. Hinckley for example. Marion G. Romney and Henry D. Moyle are counter examples. Until there is a box for 1st presidency counselors, I think the apostleship dates ought to include such service. 204.128.230.1 15:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
On 18 July 2010, J0092 added the following edit:
This was edited twice more on the same day. The final form is:
The citation is factually inaccurate. The author of Wife No. 19 was not called Ann-Eliza Snow. Her name was Ann Eliza (no hyphen) Webb Dee Young, a divorced plural wife of Brigham Young. She later married a man named Moses R. Denning, but at no time was she called Snow. The editor seems to have conflated her with Eliza R. Snow, who was also a plural wife of Brigham Young.
The edit is also inflammatory. The source is an anti-Mormon polemic, and suffers from the usual shortcomings of its genre. The offered quotation has not been located in any actual speech by Heber C. Kimball. I recommend that the paragraph be removed unless the quotation can be authenticated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmcgregor57 ( talk • contribs) 01:30, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Whoa Nelly - lets be careful with the term "anti-mormon". A lot of people find it patently offensive to label something anti mormon without cause. Just because you don't believe that this quote is accurate doesn't mean it isn't. Maybe it can't be verified by another source, and maybe it is inflammatory, but it is a verifiable source, incredibly relevant to the topic at hand, and the article suffers without it. I am adding it back with additional clauses to speak to the controversial nature of the quote.-- Descartes1979 ( talk) 03:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I entered a sentence that I thought was interesting and valuable to Wikipedia readers, although not directly relating to Heber C. Kimball. What it was directly relating to was the statement now in the Article that the LDS people made no move to build, or help build, a Mason lodge. This may be a false statement and no reference is given, as required by Wikipedia standards. The sentence should be researched and either documented or changed, in my humble opinion.
Here is the sentence which I thought was 'value added' to the Article, but was removed since Heber C. Kimball was not centrally involved. He was also not centrally involved in whether the LDS Church and/or people did, or did not, help with the Mason building followed by their temple now a Salt Lake City historic landmark and functioning headquarters for Utah Masons, and their temple.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
It is easily documented that the Mormon pioneers helped build the Catholic cathedral in Salt Lake City, on South Temple Street. Why would they not also help the Masons? Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 16:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I read the change in the end of the sentence and it is both appropriate and well sourced. The first reference is especially instructive and interesting. Thanks, Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 23:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
References
This article is woeful. Despite this guy having been one of the original twelve apostles, there is very little mention of what his achievements in this capacity were, let alone any critical assessment of his importance or legacy. Instead, it is full of patently unencyclopedic material, such as inane statements about his parents' "virtuous character" (I kid you not!), randomly selected details about assorted relatives (including babies that only survived for months), and general family-oriented stuff, all padded out with verbiose quotes purporting to be from some unspecified autobiography. I will go through the article now to remove the most egregiously offending silly material. However, even after that, the article will still remain in a pitiful state. Almost all the material appears to be WP:OR. Somebody with some expertise on this topic should go through this article and provide citations for what they think should be kept and flesh it out with properly sourced information of an acceptable standard. 92.25.21.108 ( talk) 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
Correction: Primary source citations are allowed with caution. See WP:NOR/ Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources. Tom Haws ( talk) 18:01, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Heber C. Kimball article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
Wikimedia Foundation's
Terms of Use require that editors disclose their "employer, client, and affiliation" with respect to any paid contribution; see
WP:PAID. For advice about reviewing paid contributions, see
WP:COIRESPONSE.
|
Moved anon. contribution here until someone can take a look at the book for relevance to Heber C. Kimball. WBardwin 22:52, 19 October 2005 (UTC)
LDS oriented articles often ignore a person's career or life work in favor of their religious contributions. Many of our early GA's were accomplished in one or more fields and made a living for their families while serving in the church. Should we balance the articles by giving more prominence to the secular work of these men?
A recent edit removed HCKimball from the potters category (one of several professsions he had during his life). I restored him for now. Kimball spoke often about the allegory of the potter and the clay - he knew what he was talking about. Excerpt below:
WBardwin 05:50, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I think that the discussion of his earlier career in pottery is entirely appropriate in the article, and that someone who had found this article might be interested to know that. But I was thinking in terms of a reader going to the American Potters category. I think that person would expect that the people listed there were people who were well known for their pottery, or else people who are so commonly known that they would be interested to know that person was a potter. HCK doesn't seem to fall in either category. -- Paul Stokstad 19:47, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Contribution moved here for discussion. Descendants of other LDS General authorities are sometimes listed, but usually when they also were prominent in church service. Should we include the following? WBardwin 05:15, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
This article has his apostleship ending when he joined the 1st Presidency. This is inconsistant with some other Mormon apostleships are dated. See Gordon B. Hinckley for example. Marion G. Romney and Henry D. Moyle are counter examples. Until there is a box for 1st presidency counselors, I think the apostleship dates ought to include such service. 204.128.230.1 15:06, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
On 18 July 2010, J0092 added the following edit:
This was edited twice more on the same day. The final form is:
The citation is factually inaccurate. The author of Wife No. 19 was not called Ann-Eliza Snow. Her name was Ann Eliza (no hyphen) Webb Dee Young, a divorced plural wife of Brigham Young. She later married a man named Moses R. Denning, but at no time was she called Snow. The editor seems to have conflated her with Eliza R. Snow, who was also a plural wife of Brigham Young.
The edit is also inflammatory. The source is an anti-Mormon polemic, and suffers from the usual shortcomings of its genre. The offered quotation has not been located in any actual speech by Heber C. Kimball. I recommend that the paragraph be removed unless the quotation can be authenticated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rmcgregor57 ( talk • contribs) 01:30, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Whoa Nelly - lets be careful with the term "anti-mormon". A lot of people find it patently offensive to label something anti mormon without cause. Just because you don't believe that this quote is accurate doesn't mean it isn't. Maybe it can't be verified by another source, and maybe it is inflammatory, but it is a verifiable source, incredibly relevant to the topic at hand, and the article suffers without it. I am adding it back with additional clauses to speak to the controversial nature of the quote.-- Descartes1979 ( talk) 03:32, 25 March 2011 (UTC)
I entered a sentence that I thought was interesting and valuable to Wikipedia readers, although not directly relating to Heber C. Kimball. What it was directly relating to was the statement now in the Article that the LDS people made no move to build, or help build, a Mason lodge. This may be a false statement and no reference is given, as required by Wikipedia standards. The sentence should be researched and either documented or changed, in my humble opinion.
Here is the sentence which I thought was 'value added' to the Article, but was removed since Heber C. Kimball was not centrally involved. He was also not centrally involved in whether the LDS Church and/or people did, or did not, help with the Mason building followed by their temple now a Salt Lake City historic landmark and functioning headquarters for Utah Masons, and their temple.
BEFORE:
AFTER:
It is easily documented that the Mormon pioneers helped build the Catholic cathedral in Salt Lake City, on South Temple Street. Why would they not also help the Masons? Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 16:05, 9 February 2012 (UTC)
I read the change in the end of the sentence and it is both appropriate and well sourced. The first reference is especially instructive and interesting. Thanks, Charles Edwin Shipp ( talk) 23:19, 13 February 2012 (UTC)
References
This article is woeful. Despite this guy having been one of the original twelve apostles, there is very little mention of what his achievements in this capacity were, let alone any critical assessment of his importance or legacy. Instead, it is full of patently unencyclopedic material, such as inane statements about his parents' "virtuous character" (I kid you not!), randomly selected details about assorted relatives (including babies that only survived for months), and general family-oriented stuff, all padded out with verbiose quotes purporting to be from some unspecified autobiography. I will go through the article now to remove the most egregiously offending silly material. However, even after that, the article will still remain in a pitiful state. Almost all the material appears to be WP:OR. Somebody with some expertise on this topic should go through this article and provide citations for what they think should be kept and flesh it out with properly sourced information of an acceptable standard. 92.25.21.108 ( talk) 00:51, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
Correction: Primary source citations are allowed with caution. See WP:NOR/ Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources. Tom Haws ( talk) 18:01, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Heber C. Kimball. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:49, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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