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Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 |
Hi, I made an edit in accordance with the deliberation seen in the other similarly-named subheading in this talk-page.
Now, I am being edit-warred by a user named Binksternet, who keeps reverting my sourced edit, one I was thanked for by two users, including an administrator of this page.
Can someone please help me out here? There is no justification to keep refuting the edit with no explanation on Binksternet’s part. This user also shut down the talk page we were using to deliberate over it. It seems like a distinct case of bias on his part; he’s looking for any excuse he can to refute an edit he personally disagrees with, one that others have already deliberated upon, agreed upon, and sourced, and he is not abiding by any of the rules I’ve become familiar with on this website. Grafton56 ( talk) 05:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Hard vaudeville rock maybe... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.23.49.11 ( talk) 00:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
I have small change propesitions in the sub history: 1. Origns date should be changed from late 60 and early 70s to the propased date late 60s and 70s Reason: the defining metal albums were released not only in the early 70s but in the mid to late 70s; namely the 70s albums from Judas Priest, Rainbow and Motörhead, before it got Mainstream with the New Wave of British Heavy Metal in 79.
2. Other heavy metal genres date should be changed to 80s and 90s since the genres discussed in the part developed in the 80s and 90s
3. Recent styles date should be changed to Mid 2000s to present since its already the 2020s with no defining era Pennywise.312 ( talk) 20:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
The articles to rock music and rap music got more clear dates in the last days and the article to jazz music has already a fixed date canon.
It doesnt has to be as specific like the rock or rap article, but its clear that some changes are needed as there are so many attempts for change.
I think only two parts of the history subpart need a change.
1. Orign - stretch it to the whole 70s; the Mainstream subpart date schuld stay the same 2. Recent styles Pennywise.312 ( talk) 00:17, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
If William S. Burroughs used the terms "heavy metal people" and "metal music" in his novel "Nova Express" in 1964, then how can the claim be made that the 1967 album "Featuring the Human Host and the Heavy Metal Kids" by "Hapshash and the Coloured Coat" was the first use of the term "heavy metal" in the context of music? Maybe my calendar is out of date, but doesn't 1967 come after 1964? I'm sure that Burroughs didn't have in mind the type of music currently categorized as "heavy metal" today, but the term "metal music" is rather specific in its context. I could see if Burroughs only used the term "heavy metal people", but if he also used the term "metal music" in the same novel as well, to me that's definitively before the 1967 album.
Fgoron2000 ( talk) 20:32, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
This
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Punctuation: missing comma after ripped.
Change (under 1.3 Image and fashion):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped frayed or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
To (classic comma):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped, frayed or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
Or to (Oxford comma):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped, frayed, or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
Schneckenberg (
talk) 16:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
"Music critic Robert Christgau called metal "an expressive mode [that] it sometimes seems will be with us for as long as ordinary white boys fear girls, pity themselves, and are permitted to rage against a world they'll never beat".[62]"
What does this add to the article other than being hateful against white people? If a comparable comment was added to an article about a different music style and ethnic group it would (rightly) be deleted within minutes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:6400:65C0:DC69:879A:9F91:B309 ( talk) 15:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
This
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Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could someone please put all the Heavy metal templates in a navigation box (as has been done with Electronica, Rock music, and Punk rock)? 2601:C7:C201:C640:6402:2D5F:20D:8D78 ( talk) 21:00, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
{{
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template.
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Tbhotch
™ 21:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)The Women in heavy metal section has already tons of overlapping contents with the Characteristics section.
Now you guys bring Poppy over here??? Poppy is not metal. PMRC are posers. And Robert Christgau never likes metal. This section is trash! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vc06697 ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
As a result of edits over the last year or so, the ‘women in metal’ section has acquired a pronounced Anglocentric skew, despite the UK not exactly being known for female metal musicians. The result is that it now devotes more space to documenting the opinions of British journalists, pop stars and non-notable academics, than it does to female metal musicians and their work, and presents an outdated, even stereotypical view of the genre.
First paragraph (about the history of women in metal) – OK, but rather short. Needs to be expanded.
Second paragraph (about Poppy, Grimes and Rina S) – most of this is puffery based on an Anglocentric opinion piece in the Guardian (not a reliable source of fact). Needs to be trimmed back to just the fact of Poppy’s nomination for the Grammy. Also, the claim of 'first female artist...' is dubious:
The third paragraph about women behind the scenes could probably be expanded, but it’s OK.
This is an important and potentially sensitive topic, but the current treatment is Anglocentric (apart from the first short paragraph about the US, it’s entirely about alleged sexism in the UK metal scene), long winded, does not include the views of current female musicians on this topic (for which sources exist i.e. interviews), is peppered with weasel words, contentious terms, and vague or redundant filler phrases, and a large chunk of opinion is copied verbatim from the Hill book but without the context that would be provided by reading the book. It also makes an unsourced claim that Hill is a ‘music academic’ (which doesn't seem to be supported by her ORCID bio).
Eggybacon ( talk) 00:21, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
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The re-direct to "Heavy metal (disambiguation)" should instead go to just "Heavy metal" (since it re-directs to that anyway). WockWole ( talk) 17:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Should High Tide be added to the lead? “In 1968, Four of the genre's most important pioneers, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and High Tide were founded.” They are consider the first proper British heavy metal band. Led Zeppelin wasn’t really heavy metal and Deep Purple didnt become metal until Deep Purple in Rock
What, no spinal tap? 2601:248:4601:6FA0:F812:F54E:4B16:712B ( talk) 02:06, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
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In the first paragraph of section "Death Metal", the sentence beginning "Both groups have been credited with inspiring the subgenre's name, the latter via..." doesn't make sense because it follows a list of three bands, "Florida's Death, San Francisco Bay Area's Possessed, and Ohio's Necrophagia". We should change the "Both" to another phrase like "All three", and change "the latter" to explicitly reference "Possessed" (which is clearly the intended referent, as the linked album "Seven Churches" is a Possessed album). 2A00:23C6:949A:A01:FD75:9EFF:C451:D9E4 ( talk) 19:20, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
Can i please you to change text "heavy metal is genre of rock music" to "heavy metal is music genre". Because heavy metal is too different to be subgenre of rock. Borutck ( talk) 22:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
I created the 2nd FA review on heavy metal music. Please your contributions to the article are welcome. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:13, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
I assumed that prior sections are sufficient enough, like issues about "Women in metal" status raises months ago. However, I was told that the FAR was out of process. I... I fail to see how, but to please others, here I am discussing the article's other problems. Four audio samples are still used, but I wonder whether they add anything else besides identifying what the genre sounds like. Also, some or many statements are tagged as uncited and/or "better source needed". One editor at FAR discussion pointed out that the article is dated, if not outdated. The article may need either rewrite or copyediting; that's just a random guess as I was skimming through the article. George Ho ( talk) 20:33, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
The article contains numerous claims about the supposed influence of punk rock. This is mere opinion unless backed by sales figures or quotes from key metal musicians about how this could have occurred. Punk rock seemed to be most influential in the United Kingdom, but even then, very few punk albums had good chart success. For years, pro-punk people have been claiming and straining to convince others (usually just by sheer repetition) about how influential the style supposedly was. The evidence I see claims the opposite. Sales of heavy metal albums were huge compared to the puny likes of The Ramones. When I Googled a list of the top-selling punk albums of all time, the results were a set of 10 albums that all came out between 1994 and 2004, completely irrelevant for the rise of metal to the mainstream as described here. Punk rock sales did better in British charts than in American charts, and so where is the evidence that the big labels were all promoting punk rock, let alone that punk actually succeeded in displacing any other sales? All the hard evidence I've seen suggests that the impacts of punk rock was extremely limited, except to the extent that a few apologists could eventually convince others to repeat their dubious and over-simplified claims. (One of the key perpetrators of this fiction was probably Rolling Stone magazine, it seems, although I don't know why.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.240.117.95 ( talk) 20:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
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Hi! This is my request: add this book (I am the author of it) in the bibliography chapter: Azzam Gómez, Marcos (2020). La Literatura en el Heavy Metal. Salamanca: LC Ediciones. ISBN 978-84-121754-4-8 (Thanks a lot!) 89.130.63.67 ( talk) 17:05, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The first official heavy metal bands (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple) came from the UK. I think everyone can say that the genre is British and I don't think that development has developed as well in the UK as elsewhere; I don't think the United States helped develop the genre just because Alice Cooper, Kiss, Aerosmith, Van Halen and so on. adopted the style quite late in its formation, although even the US helped develop the genre is quite underdeveloped, there were examples of non-US bands that can be classified as heavy metal, such as Buffalo (Australia) and Flower Traveler 'Band (Japan), and the wiki page does not include them. I therefore call for the removal of the United States or any country other than the United Kingdom. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 12:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
ok, I wrote more than I should have apologized for the mistake. In short, I wanted to explain that the US had no influence on heavy metal music and I demand that it be eliminated and what has come to form the subculture, traditional heavy metal and NWOBHM is exclusively British, and the American bands mentioned above from the 60's and 70 adopted the style quite late. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 14:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
The prior discussion of this is available here. I personally support the inclusion of the U.S. due to much of the reasons cited in that discussion. Issan Sumisu ( talk) 14:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't have an article and I don't understand why I should have one when I look at this page and I don't see any major US influence, and secondly I express my opinion because this is a talk page where if someone has a question or I see something wrong, I need to be informed on this talk page. Please show me if you can, where I'm wrong that on the wikipedia page more precisely in history: "Origins: late 1960s and early 1970s" I do not see any major American influence on Heavy Metal and I would ask you to clarify with a few articles and some Influential troops from that period so we can conclude this discussion, thank you. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 02:02, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
References
The final paragraph of section 1.1.4 "Relationship with classical music" makes unfounded & uncited claims while suggesting the connection between metal and classical is largely spurious. Furthermore, the sole citation provided does not provide much evidence to support the arguments made. There is a wide body of published musicology literature documenting the strong similarities between metal & classical compositions. There was a phase in the 1980s that musicologists have referred to as metal's "period of classicization" (Heritage, 2016).
Most of the information provided in section 1.1.4. is very misinformed. I came here to recommend a serious reworking of this section which currently reads like "gatekeeping" and is not in line with contemporary musicology. There are many facets of metal and a good number have strong similarities to classical composition.
Each of the following articles, books, and primary sources contain a section on various commonalities between heavy metal and classical music (or an example, in the case of primary sources). In particular, the Lilja (2009) & Heritage (2016) reviews are the most thorough analyses. Each have multiple sections on heavy metal connections to "High Art" vs. popular music and chronicles the history of the "Metallization of the High Art Aesthetic".
trees ( talk) 01:47, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
The article says the following, in the introduction: "The lyrics and performances are usually associated with aggression and machismo, an issue that has sometimes led to accusations of misogyny."
It's no secret that the heavy metal songs are agressive. However, the problem consists in associating the genre to machismo and misogyny. Firstly, those are too subjetive concepts. Secondly, that being exposed in the introduction, it seems vehement. In addiction, it's been used the word "usually". These kind of speech more or less asserts that that's what people of heavy metal do: to be misogynist. That's a great prejudiced to whom listen to the genre.
I endure a petition to the removal of the excerpt above. Lucas Alves Franceschetti ( talk) 13:35, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree, it doesn't belong in the lede. It should be under a "Reception" or "Criticism" section. — Confession0791 talk 10:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
An earlier discussion on this talk page questioned the use of the misogyny in this article. The consensus was clearly that the claim was well sourced, and should remain. However, a further debate broke out about whether it's appropriate for it to be in the WP:LEAD, even more pronounced that it's in the very first paragraph. Users such as Confession0791, Sawyersx, and myself argued that it was WP:UNDUE weight for it to be in the lead, and should instead remain in a reception or criticism section. After HALitosis 9K and myself removed this, Sergecross73 has argued that there is not a clear enough consensus to remove this from the lead yet, so I'm starting this thread.
Here is the question: should an issue that has sometimes led to accusations of misogyny.
be removed from the first paragraph and the lead of this article, and instead be kept to one of the subsections in the body? (Lyrical themes, sexism, or a new reception/criticism section?) —
Czello 07:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
I concur with Czello and argue for the removal of this line from the lead. The inclusion of this line strikes me as out of place for the lead and would be better situated under the lyrics section. Being placed in the lead gives it undue weight, as stated by Czello.
Likewise, there are other articles on music genres that have no mention of accusations of misogyny in their leads, despite the existence of such accusations at an equal or higher frequency than heavy metal music. That inconsistency should also weigh towards the removal of this line from the lead, as it appears to run counter to our goals of neutrality. HALitosis 9K ( talk) 08:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
as Hand of Doom is not anti war. Fairies Wear Boots is about British skinheads (not Nazis at the time), written after the band was attacked by a group of them before a show. Hand of Doom is the song about drugs/addiction. 134.215.233.77 ( talk) 12:43, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
. 64.231.180.24 ( talk) 12:13, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Please change this. There is a big difference between the Rolling Stones, and Cannibal Corpse 138.34.52.248 ( talk) 15:29, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Hate to bring this up again, but. Have come full circle on this, and think its not really fair, as we are talking about a tiny minority of bands here, who mostly date from the long maligned 80s hair metal scene. Its simply not fair to tarnish the whole "approach to music" with blemishes by a bunch of (mostly LA) musicians who were anyway just trying to shock as best they could; and the misogyny was more in the MTV videos designed by the major label record companies, although some of those bands were not innocent either. You could certainly see some of it coming back in the latter days of Nu Metal, but that period is largely disgraced, and given how metal has been developing in the last 15 years, with emph on musicianship, I think this is a very broad brush to paint a distant speck. Ceoil ( talk) 18:23, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
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The Beatles were the first band to feature the heavy metal devil's horns on their album cover, Yellow Submarine. 2600:1700:5AC0:4000:8D49:9B7:82C8:ACFF ( talk) 09:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
The redirect Influences of other musical styles on Heavy Metal has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Influences of other musical styles on Heavy Metal until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Heavy metal in Islamic countries has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Heavy metal in Islamic countries until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
There should be a criticism section..there are plenty of people myself included who hate it..there is a reason why they play it continuously at high volume in the Guantanamo Bay prison..there is a reason why they play at high volume period..it`s the only way they can get people to listen to it..at least there`s a point to rap it`s political..music is a combination of technique and interpretation..it`s all technique and despite what you`ve been told is not technically challenging lacks dynamics and interpretatively flat..comparing heavy metal to classical music is absurd..folk music is closer to classical music..so is jazz..classical music is by definition music that stands the test of time 2600:1702:2340:9470:C49C:E9ED:A1F:3338 ( talk) 22:44, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear community opposition ( non-admin closure) - 🔥 𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
– Obviously the primary topic by a large margin. The only other thing that qualifies, Heavy metals, is already accounted for by being listed in its plural form. And then having a hat note like that "(This article is about the music genre. For the chemical elements, see heavy metals. For other uses, see heavy metal (disambiguation) " -- FMSky ( talk) 15:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 |
Hi, I made an edit in accordance with the deliberation seen in the other similarly-named subheading in this talk-page.
Now, I am being edit-warred by a user named Binksternet, who keeps reverting my sourced edit, one I was thanked for by two users, including an administrator of this page.
Can someone please help me out here? There is no justification to keep refuting the edit with no explanation on Binksternet’s part. This user also shut down the talk page we were using to deliberate over it. It seems like a distinct case of bias on his part; he’s looking for any excuse he can to refute an edit he personally disagrees with, one that others have already deliberated upon, agreed upon, and sourced, and he is not abiding by any of the rules I’ve become familiar with on this website. Grafton56 ( talk) 05:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Hard vaudeville rock maybe... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.23.49.11 ( talk) 00:28, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
I have small change propesitions in the sub history: 1. Origns date should be changed from late 60 and early 70s to the propased date late 60s and 70s Reason: the defining metal albums were released not only in the early 70s but in the mid to late 70s; namely the 70s albums from Judas Priest, Rainbow and Motörhead, before it got Mainstream with the New Wave of British Heavy Metal in 79.
2. Other heavy metal genres date should be changed to 80s and 90s since the genres discussed in the part developed in the 80s and 90s
3. Recent styles date should be changed to Mid 2000s to present since its already the 2020s with no defining era Pennywise.312 ( talk) 20:29, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
The articles to rock music and rap music got more clear dates in the last days and the article to jazz music has already a fixed date canon.
It doesnt has to be as specific like the rock or rap article, but its clear that some changes are needed as there are so many attempts for change.
I think only two parts of the history subpart need a change.
1. Orign - stretch it to the whole 70s; the Mainstream subpart date schuld stay the same 2. Recent styles Pennywise.312 ( talk) 00:17, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
If William S. Burroughs used the terms "heavy metal people" and "metal music" in his novel "Nova Express" in 1964, then how can the claim be made that the 1967 album "Featuring the Human Host and the Heavy Metal Kids" by "Hapshash and the Coloured Coat" was the first use of the term "heavy metal" in the context of music? Maybe my calendar is out of date, but doesn't 1967 come after 1964? I'm sure that Burroughs didn't have in mind the type of music currently categorized as "heavy metal" today, but the term "metal music" is rather specific in its context. I could see if Burroughs only used the term "heavy metal people", but if he also used the term "metal music" in the same novel as well, to me that's definitively before the 1967 album.
Fgoron2000 ( talk) 20:32, 19 October 2020 (UTC)
This
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Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Punctuation: missing comma after ripped.
Change (under 1.3 Image and fashion):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped frayed or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
To (classic comma):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped, frayed or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
Or to (Oxford comma):
The classic uniform of heavy metal fans consists of light colored, ripped, frayed, or torn blue jeans, black T-shirts, boots, and black leather or denim jackets.
Schneckenberg (
talk) 16:37, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
"Music critic Robert Christgau called metal "an expressive mode [that] it sometimes seems will be with us for as long as ordinary white boys fear girls, pity themselves, and are permitted to rage against a world they'll never beat".[62]"
What does this add to the article other than being hateful against white people? If a comparable comment was added to an article about a different music style and ethnic group it would (rightly) be deleted within minutes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:647:6400:65C0:DC69:879A:9F91:B309 ( talk) 15:58, 25 May 2021 (UTC)
This
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Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Could someone please put all the Heavy metal templates in a navigation box (as has been done with Electronica, Rock music, and Punk rock)? 2601:C7:C201:C640:6402:2D5F:20D:8D78 ( talk) 21:00, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
template.
(CC)
Tbhotch
™ 21:38, 17 March 2021 (UTC)The Women in heavy metal section has already tons of overlapping contents with the Characteristics section.
Now you guys bring Poppy over here??? Poppy is not metal. PMRC are posers. And Robert Christgau never likes metal. This section is trash! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vc06697 ( talk • contribs) 03:48, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
As a result of edits over the last year or so, the ‘women in metal’ section has acquired a pronounced Anglocentric skew, despite the UK not exactly being known for female metal musicians. The result is that it now devotes more space to documenting the opinions of British journalists, pop stars and non-notable academics, than it does to female metal musicians and their work, and presents an outdated, even stereotypical view of the genre.
First paragraph (about the history of women in metal) – OK, but rather short. Needs to be expanded.
Second paragraph (about Poppy, Grimes and Rina S) – most of this is puffery based on an Anglocentric opinion piece in the Guardian (not a reliable source of fact). Needs to be trimmed back to just the fact of Poppy’s nomination for the Grammy. Also, the claim of 'first female artist...' is dubious:
The third paragraph about women behind the scenes could probably be expanded, but it’s OK.
This is an important and potentially sensitive topic, but the current treatment is Anglocentric (apart from the first short paragraph about the US, it’s entirely about alleged sexism in the UK metal scene), long winded, does not include the views of current female musicians on this topic (for which sources exist i.e. interviews), is peppered with weasel words, contentious terms, and vague or redundant filler phrases, and a large chunk of opinion is copied verbatim from the Hill book but without the context that would be provided by reading the book. It also makes an unsourced claim that Hill is a ‘music academic’ (which doesn't seem to be supported by her ORCID bio).
Eggybacon ( talk) 00:21, 5 April 2021 (UTC)
This
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Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The re-direct to "Heavy metal (disambiguation)" should instead go to just "Heavy metal" (since it re-directs to that anyway). WockWole ( talk) 17:20, 11 April 2021 (UTC)
Should High Tide be added to the lead? “In 1968, Four of the genre's most important pioneers, Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, and High Tide were founded.” They are consider the first proper British heavy metal band. Led Zeppelin wasn’t really heavy metal and Deep Purple didnt become metal until Deep Purple in Rock
What, no spinal tap? 2601:248:4601:6FA0:F812:F54E:4B16:712B ( talk) 02:06, 5 June 2021 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the first paragraph of section "Death Metal", the sentence beginning "Both groups have been credited with inspiring the subgenre's name, the latter via..." doesn't make sense because it follows a list of three bands, "Florida's Death, San Francisco Bay Area's Possessed, and Ohio's Necrophagia". We should change the "Both" to another phrase like "All three", and change "the latter" to explicitly reference "Possessed" (which is clearly the intended referent, as the linked album "Seven Churches" is a Possessed album). 2A00:23C6:949A:A01:FD75:9EFF:C451:D9E4 ( talk) 19:20, 13 August 2021 (UTC)
Can i please you to change text "heavy metal is genre of rock music" to "heavy metal is music genre". Because heavy metal is too different to be subgenre of rock. Borutck ( talk) 22:30, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
I created the 2nd FA review on heavy metal music. Please your contributions to the article are welcome. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:13, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
I assumed that prior sections are sufficient enough, like issues about "Women in metal" status raises months ago. However, I was told that the FAR was out of process. I... I fail to see how, but to please others, here I am discussing the article's other problems. Four audio samples are still used, but I wonder whether they add anything else besides identifying what the genre sounds like. Also, some or many statements are tagged as uncited and/or "better source needed". One editor at FAR discussion pointed out that the article is dated, if not outdated. The article may need either rewrite or copyediting; that's just a random guess as I was skimming through the article. George Ho ( talk) 20:33, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
The article contains numerous claims about the supposed influence of punk rock. This is mere opinion unless backed by sales figures or quotes from key metal musicians about how this could have occurred. Punk rock seemed to be most influential in the United Kingdom, but even then, very few punk albums had good chart success. For years, pro-punk people have been claiming and straining to convince others (usually just by sheer repetition) about how influential the style supposedly was. The evidence I see claims the opposite. Sales of heavy metal albums were huge compared to the puny likes of The Ramones. When I Googled a list of the top-selling punk albums of all time, the results were a set of 10 albums that all came out between 1994 and 2004, completely irrelevant for the rise of metal to the mainstream as described here. Punk rock sales did better in British charts than in American charts, and so where is the evidence that the big labels were all promoting punk rock, let alone that punk actually succeeded in displacing any other sales? All the hard evidence I've seen suggests that the impacts of punk rock was extremely limited, except to the extent that a few apologists could eventually convince others to repeat their dubious and over-simplified claims. (One of the key perpetrators of this fiction was probably Rolling Stone magazine, it seems, although I don't know why.) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.240.117.95 ( talk) 20:31, 14 March 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Hi! This is my request: add this book (I am the author of it) in the bibliography chapter: Azzam Gómez, Marcos (2020). La Literatura en el Heavy Metal. Salamanca: LC Ediciones. ISBN 978-84-121754-4-8 (Thanks a lot!) 89.130.63.67 ( talk) 17:05, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
The first official heavy metal bands (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath and Deep Purple) came from the UK. I think everyone can say that the genre is British and I don't think that development has developed as well in the UK as elsewhere; I don't think the United States helped develop the genre just because Alice Cooper, Kiss, Aerosmith, Van Halen and so on. adopted the style quite late in its formation, although even the US helped develop the genre is quite underdeveloped, there were examples of non-US bands that can be classified as heavy metal, such as Buffalo (Australia) and Flower Traveler 'Band (Japan), and the wiki page does not include them. I therefore call for the removal of the United States or any country other than the United Kingdom. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 12:51, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
ok, I wrote more than I should have apologized for the mistake. In short, I wanted to explain that the US had no influence on heavy metal music and I demand that it be eliminated and what has come to form the subculture, traditional heavy metal and NWOBHM is exclusively British, and the American bands mentioned above from the 60's and 70 adopted the style quite late. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 14:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
The prior discussion of this is available here. I personally support the inclusion of the U.S. due to much of the reasons cited in that discussion. Issan Sumisu ( talk) 14:56, 28 February 2022 (UTC)
I don't have an article and I don't understand why I should have one when I look at this page and I don't see any major US influence, and secondly I express my opinion because this is a talk page where if someone has a question or I see something wrong, I need to be informed on this talk page. Please show me if you can, where I'm wrong that on the wikipedia page more precisely in history: "Origins: late 1960s and early 1970s" I do not see any major American influence on Heavy Metal and I would ask you to clarify with a few articles and some Influential troops from that period so we can conclude this discussion, thank you. Luis Trexxxx ( talk) 02:02, 5 March 2022 (UTC)
References
The final paragraph of section 1.1.4 "Relationship with classical music" makes unfounded & uncited claims while suggesting the connection between metal and classical is largely spurious. Furthermore, the sole citation provided does not provide much evidence to support the arguments made. There is a wide body of published musicology literature documenting the strong similarities between metal & classical compositions. There was a phase in the 1980s that musicologists have referred to as metal's "period of classicization" (Heritage, 2016).
Most of the information provided in section 1.1.4. is very misinformed. I came here to recommend a serious reworking of this section which currently reads like "gatekeeping" and is not in line with contemporary musicology. There are many facets of metal and a good number have strong similarities to classical composition.
Each of the following articles, books, and primary sources contain a section on various commonalities between heavy metal and classical music (or an example, in the case of primary sources). In particular, the Lilja (2009) & Heritage (2016) reviews are the most thorough analyses. Each have multiple sections on heavy metal connections to "High Art" vs. popular music and chronicles the history of the "Metallization of the High Art Aesthetic".
trees ( talk) 01:47, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
The article says the following, in the introduction: "The lyrics and performances are usually associated with aggression and machismo, an issue that has sometimes led to accusations of misogyny."
It's no secret that the heavy metal songs are agressive. However, the problem consists in associating the genre to machismo and misogyny. Firstly, those are too subjetive concepts. Secondly, that being exposed in the introduction, it seems vehement. In addiction, it's been used the word "usually". These kind of speech more or less asserts that that's what people of heavy metal do: to be misogynist. That's a great prejudiced to whom listen to the genre.
I endure a petition to the removal of the excerpt above. Lucas Alves Franceschetti ( talk) 13:35, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree, it doesn't belong in the lede. It should be under a "Reception" or "Criticism" section. — Confession0791 talk 10:35, 14 April 2022 (UTC)
An earlier discussion on this talk page questioned the use of the misogyny in this article. The consensus was clearly that the claim was well sourced, and should remain. However, a further debate broke out about whether it's appropriate for it to be in the WP:LEAD, even more pronounced that it's in the very first paragraph. Users such as Confession0791, Sawyersx, and myself argued that it was WP:UNDUE weight for it to be in the lead, and should instead remain in a reception or criticism section. After HALitosis 9K and myself removed this, Sergecross73 has argued that there is not a clear enough consensus to remove this from the lead yet, so I'm starting this thread.
Here is the question: should an issue that has sometimes led to accusations of misogyny.
be removed from the first paragraph and the lead of this article, and instead be kept to one of the subsections in the body? (Lyrical themes, sexism, or a new reception/criticism section?) —
Czello 07:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
I concur with Czello and argue for the removal of this line from the lead. The inclusion of this line strikes me as out of place for the lead and would be better situated under the lyrics section. Being placed in the lead gives it undue weight, as stated by Czello.
Likewise, there are other articles on music genres that have no mention of accusations of misogyny in their leads, despite the existence of such accusations at an equal or higher frequency than heavy metal music. That inconsistency should also weigh towards the removal of this line from the lead, as it appears to run counter to our goals of neutrality. HALitosis 9K ( talk) 08:41, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
as Hand of Doom is not anti war. Fairies Wear Boots is about British skinheads (not Nazis at the time), written after the band was attacked by a group of them before a show. Hand of Doom is the song about drugs/addiction. 134.215.233.77 ( talk) 12:43, 25 August 2022 (UTC)
. 64.231.180.24 ( talk) 12:13, 29 September 2022 (UTC)
Please change this. There is a big difference between the Rolling Stones, and Cannibal Corpse 138.34.52.248 ( talk) 15:29, 9 November 2022 (UTC)
Hate to bring this up again, but. Have come full circle on this, and think its not really fair, as we are talking about a tiny minority of bands here, who mostly date from the long maligned 80s hair metal scene. Its simply not fair to tarnish the whole "approach to music" with blemishes by a bunch of (mostly LA) musicians who were anyway just trying to shock as best they could; and the misogyny was more in the MTV videos designed by the major label record companies, although some of those bands were not innocent either. You could certainly see some of it coming back in the latter days of Nu Metal, but that period is largely disgraced, and given how metal has been developing in the last 15 years, with emph on musicianship, I think this is a very broad brush to paint a distant speck. Ceoil ( talk) 18:23, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request to
Heavy metal music has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The Beatles were the first band to feature the heavy metal devil's horns on their album cover, Yellow Submarine. 2600:1700:5AC0:4000:8D49:9B7:82C8:ACFF ( talk) 09:03, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
The redirect Influences of other musical styles on Heavy Metal has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Influences of other musical styles on Heavy Metal until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:06, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Heavy metal in Islamic countries has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 April 4 § Heavy metal in Islamic countries until a consensus is reached. Steel1943 ( talk) 18:10, 4 April 2023 (UTC)
There should be a criticism section..there are plenty of people myself included who hate it..there is a reason why they play it continuously at high volume in the Guantanamo Bay prison..there is a reason why they play at high volume period..it`s the only way they can get people to listen to it..at least there`s a point to rap it`s political..music is a combination of technique and interpretation..it`s all technique and despite what you`ve been told is not technically challenging lacks dynamics and interpretatively flat..comparing heavy metal to classical music is absurd..folk music is closer to classical music..so is jazz..classical music is by definition music that stands the test of time 2600:1702:2340:9470:C49C:E9ED:A1F:3338 ( talk) 22:44, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Clear community opposition ( non-admin closure) - 🔥 𝑰𝒍𝒍𝒖𝒔𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝑭𝒍𝒂𝒎𝒆 (𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒌)🔥 15:27, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
– Obviously the primary topic by a large margin. The only other thing that qualifies, Heavy metals, is already accounted for by being listed in its plural form. And then having a hat note like that "(This article is about the music genre. For the chemical elements, see heavy metals. For other uses, see heavy metal (disambiguation) " -- FMSky ( talk) 15:19, 12 June 2023 (UTC)