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Lets put together a discography. We can split it into two. Head one 'as Black Sabbath' listing Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, Live Evil, Dehumanizer, Black Sabbath: Live at Hammersmith Odeon and then one 'as Heaven and Hell' with the new single. Black Sabbath: The Dio Years I suppose would go down as Black Sabbath but the three new songs are credited to Heaven and Hell not the Sabs so I'm less sure about that one.
Then there's the Sabbath Stones compilation ;o
( The Elfoid 14:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
1) H&H's made it abundantly clear they CHOSE not to call themselves Black Sabbath. Name rights originally were owned by the original Sabbath, contractually. This game them all the right to form a band named Black Sabbath. After the entire band left Iommi, they didn't think they'd ever be back together so he bought the rights off of them. Tony Iommi can make Black Sabbath whenever he wants with whoever he wants. I can't be bothered to explain why it IS called H&H for now since it isn't important in context.
2) Heaven and Hell are releasing The Devil Cried single, tracks 14 - 16 on Black Sabbath: The Dio Years (the 3 new songs they recorded together) and a new as-yet un-named new live album and accompanying DVD. So a small discography is required already - forthcoming releases are often listed on Wikipedia (and are infact on the Sabbath discography to).
3) I was not suggesting a discography for their work in Sabbath...I phrased it wrong. A discography for this GROUP OF MUSICIANS is what I meant. Rather than head it 'discography' list 'Heaven and Hell lineup performing as Black Sabbath's discography' or just 'appearing as Black Sabbath'. You know? While it is already listed on the Black Sabbath discography, I think it is worth noting on here so that all the Heaven and Hell information can be compiled in one place. Especially since the Black Sabbath: Live at Hammersmith Odeon release is going to be sucked into the Heaven and Hell thing so should be clearly defined in here as a Sabbath show.
( The Elfoid 19:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC))
It'd be Heaven and Hell (we listed Bill Ward as a former Heaven and Hell member so the album he was on counts), Mob Rules, Live Evil, Dehumanizer (1992 reunion of the band), Live at Hammersmith Odeon (release of an old live recording, The Dio Years has taken all the PR so this one's not really been so heard of), Black Sabbath: The Dio Years (they're appearing as Sabbath on all of them except the new 3 which are them as Heaven and Hell) and the un-named new live album they just announced. So they performed as Sabbath on 3 albums, 2 live albums and a compilation.
And not everyone knows - I know someone who heard about Heaven and Hell when she saw it advertised and had no idea who Sabbath is. Saying 'everyone knows' is just silly. Plus not everyone knows WHAT they did with Sabbath and I think a list would be better than present incorporation into an article. Wikipedia is meant to be EASY to use, not just to have the info somewhere in it's vast caverns
( The Elfoid 15:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC))
So; should we not follow what the official heaven and Hell site says? It does include a discography: The Rules of Hell, Live From Radio City Music Hall, The Dio Years, Dehumanizer, Live Evil, Mob Rules, Heaven and Hell. So this is official.
Nunoni (
talk) 15:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The distinction that needs to be remembered here is POV vs. verifiable fact. Nunoni your POV is that the album The Dio Years is a Heaven and Hell album (which is certainly by no means an outrageous POV). The problem is that one can verify that it is a Back Sabbath album. The album cover says Black Sabbath, Billboard magazine lists it as Black Sabbath Billboard album chart history-Black Sabbath and the same magazine (which I consider the definitive reference for all things music) refers to Heaven and Hell as a separate band here. J04n ( talk) 12:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the sentence “Meanwhile Iommi and Butler looked forward to a continuation with the original line up of Black Sabbath”, because it is speculative: Iommi and Butler have not, at least since Heaven and Hell is recording and touring, expressed a desire to do new work with the original line-up of Black Sabbath. Such a continuation may very well happen in the future, but until any plans are announced, there is no reason to try to imagine what Iommi and Butler may or may not think, beyond what they say themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nunoni ( talk • contribs) 10:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Whoever keeps on reinstating "Meanwhile Iommi and Butler looked forward to a continuation with the original line up of Black Sabbath. " needs to come up with a reference; there is no such reference anywhere, so the sentence has to go. Nunoni ( talk) 16:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm putting in "As Black Sabbath" in the Dicography section, because in their official H&H site they do have these albums as black Sabbath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.148.126 ( talk) 18:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I am removing the album Heaven and Hell from this "as Black Sabbath", given that Bill Ward is not involved in Heaven & Hell. You can't just discard the drums player as irrelevant, particularly when Ward is part of the "in hiatus" Ozzy-led Sabb, and Appice is an official member of Heaven and Hell with at least in principle equal status. Nunoni ( talk) 09:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Sabbath#Heaven_.26_Hell_is_Black_Sabbath —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.148.187 ( talk) 19:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
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This is the
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Heaven & Hell (band) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Archives: 1 |
This article was nominated for deletion on November 26, 2006. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Lets put together a discography. We can split it into two. Head one 'as Black Sabbath' listing Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules, Live Evil, Dehumanizer, Black Sabbath: Live at Hammersmith Odeon and then one 'as Heaven and Hell' with the new single. Black Sabbath: The Dio Years I suppose would go down as Black Sabbath but the three new songs are credited to Heaven and Hell not the Sabs so I'm less sure about that one.
Then there's the Sabbath Stones compilation ;o
( The Elfoid 14:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC))
1) H&H's made it abundantly clear they CHOSE not to call themselves Black Sabbath. Name rights originally were owned by the original Sabbath, contractually. This game them all the right to form a band named Black Sabbath. After the entire band left Iommi, they didn't think they'd ever be back together so he bought the rights off of them. Tony Iommi can make Black Sabbath whenever he wants with whoever he wants. I can't be bothered to explain why it IS called H&H for now since it isn't important in context.
2) Heaven and Hell are releasing The Devil Cried single, tracks 14 - 16 on Black Sabbath: The Dio Years (the 3 new songs they recorded together) and a new as-yet un-named new live album and accompanying DVD. So a small discography is required already - forthcoming releases are often listed on Wikipedia (and are infact on the Sabbath discography to).
3) I was not suggesting a discography for their work in Sabbath...I phrased it wrong. A discography for this GROUP OF MUSICIANS is what I meant. Rather than head it 'discography' list 'Heaven and Hell lineup performing as Black Sabbath's discography' or just 'appearing as Black Sabbath'. You know? While it is already listed on the Black Sabbath discography, I think it is worth noting on here so that all the Heaven and Hell information can be compiled in one place. Especially since the Black Sabbath: Live at Hammersmith Odeon release is going to be sucked into the Heaven and Hell thing so should be clearly defined in here as a Sabbath show.
( The Elfoid 19:40, 13 March 2007 (UTC))
It'd be Heaven and Hell (we listed Bill Ward as a former Heaven and Hell member so the album he was on counts), Mob Rules, Live Evil, Dehumanizer (1992 reunion of the band), Live at Hammersmith Odeon (release of an old live recording, The Dio Years has taken all the PR so this one's not really been so heard of), Black Sabbath: The Dio Years (they're appearing as Sabbath on all of them except the new 3 which are them as Heaven and Hell) and the un-named new live album they just announced. So they performed as Sabbath on 3 albums, 2 live albums and a compilation.
And not everyone knows - I know someone who heard about Heaven and Hell when she saw it advertised and had no idea who Sabbath is. Saying 'everyone knows' is just silly. Plus not everyone knows WHAT they did with Sabbath and I think a list would be better than present incorporation into an article. Wikipedia is meant to be EASY to use, not just to have the info somewhere in it's vast caverns
( The Elfoid 15:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC))
So; should we not follow what the official heaven and Hell site says? It does include a discography: The Rules of Hell, Live From Radio City Music Hall, The Dio Years, Dehumanizer, Live Evil, Mob Rules, Heaven and Hell. So this is official.
Nunoni (
talk) 15:52, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The distinction that needs to be remembered here is POV vs. verifiable fact. Nunoni your POV is that the album The Dio Years is a Heaven and Hell album (which is certainly by no means an outrageous POV). The problem is that one can verify that it is a Back Sabbath album. The album cover says Black Sabbath, Billboard magazine lists it as Black Sabbath Billboard album chart history-Black Sabbath and the same magazine (which I consider the definitive reference for all things music) refers to Heaven and Hell as a separate band here. J04n ( talk) 12:47, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the sentence “Meanwhile Iommi and Butler looked forward to a continuation with the original line up of Black Sabbath”, because it is speculative: Iommi and Butler have not, at least since Heaven and Hell is recording and touring, expressed a desire to do new work with the original line-up of Black Sabbath. Such a continuation may very well happen in the future, but until any plans are announced, there is no reason to try to imagine what Iommi and Butler may or may not think, beyond what they say themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nunoni ( talk • contribs) 10:11, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Whoever keeps on reinstating "Meanwhile Iommi and Butler looked forward to a continuation with the original line up of Black Sabbath. " needs to come up with a reference; there is no such reference anywhere, so the sentence has to go. Nunoni ( talk) 16:55, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I'm putting in "As Black Sabbath" in the Dicography section, because in their official H&H site they do have these albums as black Sabbath. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.21.148.126 ( talk) 18:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I am removing the album Heaven and Hell from this "as Black Sabbath", given that Bill Ward is not involved in Heaven & Hell. You can't just discard the drums player as irrelevant, particularly when Ward is part of the "in hiatus" Ozzy-led Sabb, and Appice is an official member of Heaven and Hell with at least in principle equal status. Nunoni ( talk) 09:50, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Black_Sabbath#Heaven_.26_Hell_is_Black_Sabbath —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.2.148.187 ( talk) 19:02, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
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