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This article feels a little POV and very harsh. Statements such as "professional dancers never have any sort of job security" and "ballet movement is neither natural nor healthy" -- are these verified? The article also has a non-encyclopedic tone in terms of definitive statements like the above. If someone could take a look at the statistics and the statements and give me some feedback, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Emmegan 14:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that the tone is not great; this article isn't entirely finished and is far from being polished. As for verification, I need to procure the book I was using again and add page numbers, etc. However, those two statements sound correct to me (though I wrote it =\). It certainly needs some cleaning up as far as encyclopedic tone and format goes, but I am reasonably certain that it is all factually correct, if a bit extreme. I could concede that professional dancers may sometimes have some sort of job security :], but ballet movement is definitely not good for the body. I'll try to do more verification this week... and this article could use all the help it can get. -- Keitei ( talk) 18:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with Emmegan. The tone of the article is very unbalanced and argumentative. I've added an NPOV tag.-- 24.52.254.62 05:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Emmegan's rewrite is much more NPOV. I've deleted the NPOV tag.-- 24.52.254.62 16:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The question of wellness of dancers, not just ballet dancers, and particularly people preparing or active in dance as a career has also been addressed by Hilary Trotter, editor of Ausdance’s three Safe Dance Reports, published between 1990 and 1999, see http://www.ausdance.org.au/outside/resources/safedance/safedance.html - Paul foord 06:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello, everyone; I've just made a big rewrite of this article. Should anyone care to take a peek and give me feedback, I'd appreciate it. Thanks to all, Emmegan 16:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Great job, Emmegan!-- 24.52.254.62 16:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Manfred86: I have been a dancer for many and I believe that the answer and statements in this article I relatively true, I feel that yes "dancer never have any sort of job security" in a busyness of such physical demand, and talent, jobs in dancing currier are very competitive, and unless one has the ability to become a ballet legend then a dancer might have to find many different companies.
"...compared to the 61 common sports, only professional football is more physically demanding than ballet." Does this refer to American football or everone else's football? Boris B 11:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- American football. The quote is from an American source; I've added "[American]" to the quote to clarify. -- Keitei ( talk) 15:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not sure I agree with the POV of this article, but it does bring up very important points that deserve discussion and wide readership. I am planning to spend some time improving the ballet article (that article has been driving me crazy for months!). Would anyone object to me merging this article into the main Ballet article? It would probably appear under a heading of "controversies in ballet" with subheadings of injuries, smoking, job security, etc. What do you think? Slhogan94 03:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
A few problems with the article I found. Mostly with NPOV and sourcing. (Passages from the article are in italics) Since ballet is also a performance art with high emphasis on aesthetics, ballet dancers are also at a higher risk to develop eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa or bulimia.
While this might be true this is stated again below. And one study doesn't exactly convince me that it's fact that dancers are at a significantly higher risk for developing eating disorders.
As with other activities (such as horse jockeying) where weight is a factor, dancers are at a higher risk for developing eating disorders such as anorexia and bulimia
This double stating is to me a problem. And the restatement (the one right above) should be removed to allow greater NPOV.
In addition to the stress that may be caused by this, dancers also may experience the psychological distress of a desire to be technically and physically "perfect".
Once again, the tone states it as fact. And while it may be commonly accepted as fact in some circles. To the average reader who knows nothing about ballet. It may either shock them or make them think "What in the hell are these idiots talking about?". A desire to be physically perfect among dancers seems a little bit stereotopic as well. If not very much so.
Now, most sports players are taking ballet to help stengthen their muscles and become more flexible. Ballet is an extremely healthy and safe thing to do when done correctly. There are more injuries to American dancers because most companies don't have a steady schedule of rehearsals and performances like in Europe. Dancers today don't seem as important now as a football team so it is harder to find a steady job and make ends meet. Dancers become stressed and when they get hurt, don't want to be fired because they can't be used so they try to tough it out and end up hurting themselves. BAllet is really very good for you.
One or two spelling and capitalization errors, nothing much. Except for the fact this is making a big statement. With no source. That's a problem... If someone can find a source or two (three would be best for such a statement in my opinion. But two will suffice) then I won't complain.
Anyways, I don't think a merge is the best option for this article. It seems fairly long, and I think that it might deserve its own article. However if NPOV violations were to skyrocket then it might (in my eye) become neccessary to merge this with the main article on ballet to allow a greater number of people to review and try to keep down the level of POV. Right now though, it just needs a bit of revising, copy-editing, citation/source finding, and a tiny amount of POV trimming.
But those are just my thoughts on the article. You're welcome to comment or object. Nateland 21:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I was just doing a paper and was looking at one of the links and found in broken. Thought you might want to know! ;) -- 74.183.208.110 ( talk) 17:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article feels a little POV and very harsh. Statements such as "professional dancers never have any sort of job security" and "ballet movement is neither natural nor healthy" -- are these verified? The article also has a non-encyclopedic tone in terms of definitive statements like the above. If someone could take a look at the statistics and the statements and give me some feedback, I'd appreciate it. Thanks, Emmegan 14:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree that the tone is not great; this article isn't entirely finished and is far from being polished. As for verification, I need to procure the book I was using again and add page numbers, etc. However, those two statements sound correct to me (though I wrote it =\). It certainly needs some cleaning up as far as encyclopedic tone and format goes, but I am reasonably certain that it is all factually correct, if a bit extreme. I could concede that professional dancers may sometimes have some sort of job security :], but ballet movement is definitely not good for the body. I'll try to do more verification this week... and this article could use all the help it can get. -- Keitei ( talk) 18:45, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with Emmegan. The tone of the article is very unbalanced and argumentative. I've added an NPOV tag.-- 24.52.254.62 05:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Emmegan's rewrite is much more NPOV. I've deleted the NPOV tag.-- 24.52.254.62 16:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The question of wellness of dancers, not just ballet dancers, and particularly people preparing or active in dance as a career has also been addressed by Hilary Trotter, editor of Ausdance’s three Safe Dance Reports, published between 1990 and 1999, see http://www.ausdance.org.au/outside/resources/safedance/safedance.html - Paul foord 06:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello, everyone; I've just made a big rewrite of this article. Should anyone care to take a peek and give me feedback, I'd appreciate it. Thanks to all, Emmegan 16:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
- Great job, Emmegan!-- 24.52.254.62 16:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Manfred86: I have been a dancer for many and I believe that the answer and statements in this article I relatively true, I feel that yes "dancer never have any sort of job security" in a busyness of such physical demand, and talent, jobs in dancing currier are very competitive, and unless one has the ability to become a ballet legend then a dancer might have to find many different companies.
"...compared to the 61 common sports, only professional football is more physically demanding than ballet." Does this refer to American football or everone else's football? Boris B 11:03, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
- American football. The quote is from an American source; I've added "[American]" to the quote to clarify. -- Keitei ( talk) 15:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi! I'm not sure I agree with the POV of this article, but it does bring up very important points that deserve discussion and wide readership. I am planning to spend some time improving the ballet article (that article has been driving me crazy for months!). Would anyone object to me merging this article into the main Ballet article? It would probably appear under a heading of "controversies in ballet" with subheadings of injuries, smoking, job security, etc. What do you think? Slhogan94 03:14, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
A few problems with the article I found. Mostly with NPOV and sourcing. (Passages from the article are in italics) Since ballet is also a performance art with high emphasis on aesthetics, ballet dancers are also at a higher risk to develop eating disorders such as anorexia nervosa or bulimia.
While this might be true this is stated again below. And one study doesn't exactly convince me that it's fact that dancers are at a significantly higher risk for developing eating disorders.
As with other activities (such as horse jockeying) where weight is a factor, dancers are at a higher risk for developing eating disorders such as anorexia and bulimia
This double stating is to me a problem. And the restatement (the one right above) should be removed to allow greater NPOV.
In addition to the stress that may be caused by this, dancers also may experience the psychological distress of a desire to be technically and physically "perfect".
Once again, the tone states it as fact. And while it may be commonly accepted as fact in some circles. To the average reader who knows nothing about ballet. It may either shock them or make them think "What in the hell are these idiots talking about?". A desire to be physically perfect among dancers seems a little bit stereotopic as well. If not very much so.
Now, most sports players are taking ballet to help stengthen their muscles and become more flexible. Ballet is an extremely healthy and safe thing to do when done correctly. There are more injuries to American dancers because most companies don't have a steady schedule of rehearsals and performances like in Europe. Dancers today don't seem as important now as a football team so it is harder to find a steady job and make ends meet. Dancers become stressed and when they get hurt, don't want to be fired because they can't be used so they try to tough it out and end up hurting themselves. BAllet is really very good for you.
One or two spelling and capitalization errors, nothing much. Except for the fact this is making a big statement. With no source. That's a problem... If someone can find a source or two (three would be best for such a statement in my opinion. But two will suffice) then I won't complain.
Anyways, I don't think a merge is the best option for this article. It seems fairly long, and I think that it might deserve its own article. However if NPOV violations were to skyrocket then it might (in my eye) become neccessary to merge this with the main article on ballet to allow a greater number of people to review and try to keep down the level of POV. Right now though, it just needs a bit of revising, copy-editing, citation/source finding, and a tiny amount of POV trimming.
But those are just my thoughts on the article. You're welcome to comment or object. Nateland 21:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
I was just doing a paper and was looking at one of the links and found in broken. Thought you might want to know! ;) -- 74.183.208.110 ( talk) 17:43, 2 July 2010 (UTC)