![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Firstly can I say that I appreciate all the work that has gone into creating this article.
Following my previous discussions on the first tier regulations, I still think that there is a better way in which the information detailing which areas are in which tiers can be presented. I think this could be included in a single table which details which tier each area is currently in and provides details of when that area was in a different tier. Currently I think this is hard to see using the information in the way it is presented.
I'd appreciate getting consensus on here before making any changes. Happy to share a proposal of what I think this could look like if that would help. Tracland ( talk) 06:51, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Current | Area | Periods in Tier 1 | Periods in Tier 2 | Periods in Tier 3 |
---|---|---|---|---|
Tier 1 | Cornwall, the Isles of Scilly, and the Isle of Wight | 2 December 2020 - | N/A | N/A |
Tier 2 | North West: Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Chester, Cumbria, Halton, Knowsley, Liverpool, Sefton, St Helens, Warrington, Wirral
Yorkshire and The Humber: City of York, North Yorkshire East Midlands: Northamptonshire, Rutland West Midlands: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin, Worcestershire East of England: Bedford, Cambridgeshire, Central Bedfordshire, Colchester, Dacorum, East Herts, Luton, Milton Keynes, Norfolk, North Herts, Peterborough, Stevenage, St Albans, Suffolk, Tendring, Uttlesford, Welwyn Hatfield South East: Bracknell Forest, Brighton and Hove, Buckinghamshire, East Sussex, Hampshire, Oxfordshire, Portsmouth, Reading, Windsor and Maidenhead, Southampton, Surrey, West Berkshire, West Sussex, Wokingham South West: Bath and North East Somerset, Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole, Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire (Excluding South Gloucestershire), Plymouth, Somerset (Excluding North Somerset), Swindon, Torbay, Wiltshire |
N/A | 2 December 2020 - | N/A |
Tier 3 | North West: Blackburn with Darwen, Blackpool, Bolton, Bury, Lancashire, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford, Wigan
North East: Darlington, Durham, Gateshead, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough, Newcastle upon Tyne, North Tyneside, Northumberland, Redcar and Cleveland, South Tyneside, Stockton-on-Tees, Sunderland Yorkshire and The Humber: Barnsley, Calderdale, Bradford, Doncaster, East Riding of Yorkshire, Hull, Kirklees, Leeds, North Lincolnshire, Rotherham, Sheffield, Wakefield, North East Lincolnshire East Midlands: Derby, Derbyshire, Leicester, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire West Midlands: Birmingham, Coventry, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Staffordshire, Stoke-on-Trent, Walsall, Warwickshire, Wolverhampton South East: Kent, Medway, Slough South West: Bristol, North Somerset, South Gloucestershire |
N/A | N/A | 2 December 2020 - |
East of England: Basildon, Braintree, Brentwood, Broxbourne, Castle Point, Chelmsford, Epping Forest, Harlow, Hertsmere, Maldon, Rochford, Southend-on-Sea, Three Rivers, Thurrock, Watford
London: Westminster, Barking and Dagenham, Barnet, Bexley, Brent, Bromley, Camden, Croydon. Ealing, Enfield, Hackney, Hammersmith and Fulham, Haringey, Harrow, Havering, Hillingdon, Hounslow, Islington, Lambeth, Lewisham, Merton, Newham, Redbridge, Richmond upon Thames, Southwark, Sutton, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest, Wandsworth, Greenwich, Kensington and Chelsea, Kingston upon Thames, City of London, Inner Temple and Middle Temple |
N/A | 2 December 2020 - 15 December 2020 | 16 December 2020 - |
Let me know your thoughts Tracland ( talk) 18:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
This article seems to have been updated to include many references to tier 4; with references pointing to the legislation. However, at the time of writing the linked legislation doesn't appear to have been amended. So while these changes quite usefully reflect the latest government guidance - it doesn't appear that this article accurately represents the legislation, and the citations do not back-up the claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:2124:5400:A082:95F1:E35:7592 ( talk) 00:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
These have been extensively amended several times in advance of the statutory instruments being published. Making edits which are unsourced and which list areas neither in alphabetical order nor in the order set out within the regulations makes it very difficult and lengthy to check and source things when the regs are actually published. On publication, it's actually much easier to revert and to work from the known correct previous version, which hardly makes it worth the while putting in a lot of effort to try to beat the publication date by a day or so. MichaelMaggs ( talk) 15:51, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
@ MichaelMaggs: its usual on Wikipedia (and in most cases in the real world) to go by geographical counties not administrative counties since many readers won't know that Swindon isn't administrated by Wiltshire Council. Even in this video by the health secretary they use the likes of "Bedfordshire" and "Portsmouth, Gosport and Havant in Hampshire" and although the Gov list lists Bath and North East Somerset and North Somerset separately it does list Somerset with "(South Somerset, Somerset West and Taunton, Mendip and Sedgemoor)" in brackets. This has been discussed many times and the consensus is generally to go by ceremonial county, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 13#Medway or Kent for example. Although I'm fine with going by administrative county in the article we should state what UAs are excluded. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
There are currently 4 maps below the changes by date showing the changes following most (but not all of the tier change dates). Ideally if we are going to include these then it would be useful to have these for each of the dates of change. In addition, currently they all use different colour schemes for the different tiers which is confusing. I support these maps being here and think they are a useful inclusion but could we get a common colour scheme across all of the maps? (I would update but, frankly, I don't have a clue how to do this) Tracland ( talk) 14:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
I've uploaded versions of the first and second tier system maps with darker greys for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to try and stave off confusion with the cream-coloured Tier 1. If you think it looks alright I can extend to the maps of past tier iterations too. Rcsprinter123 (parlez) 14:31, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Although these haven't been revoked yet it might be worth noting that the gov website for then has then as "withdrawn", if we do return to the tiers will another new article be needed like Third COVID-19 tier regulations in England? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:25, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
I've done the main current changes but haven't touched the changes by date tables at the bottom. I think these are the main things:
One thing that should probably be mentioned here is how other rules apply if people move up tiers, namely if someone moves from tier 3 to tier 1. Its clear on that the "gathering" rules apply whichever is higher if someone moves. However this is less clear with the other restrictions on if they apply to someone moving to a lower tier. Say someone travels from a tier 3 area to a tier 1 and goes into a pub they presumably wouldn't need to take away (tier 3) or even have a substantial meal (tier 2) since the regulations only seem to restrict the businesses in the area it is located. Similarly tier 4 doesn't appear to prohibit people traveling to an area though people must obviously follow tier 4 rules regarding gatherings (see also this). One could probably walk over the border to go to a restaurant and be within the "reasonable excuse" for leaving home since its getting food. As noted there is advice on traveling to or from a tier 3 area but not legally binding. See this and this and this story for example. I would suggest clarity on this be added to the article though it probably has little relevance now given England is expected to ease restrictions nationally. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:25, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Presumably the 1st (8 March) and 2nd (29 March) modifications will be under the All Tiers Regulations since they expire at the end of March. I can't find any legislation for the changes yet but as per the above discussion I'd be careful about adding content until we know what's going on and its the time that its come into force. I'd note that the 1st modification brings us somewhat back to the prior to 6 January (less strict) tier 4 where one can meet 1 other person for the purpose of recreation as opposed to only exercise. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:14, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
I assume due to new steps legislation this is now repealed? Steven a91 ( talk) 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Firstly can I say that I appreciate all the work that has gone into creating this article.
Following my previous discussions on the first tier regulations, I still think that there is a better way in which the information detailing which areas are in which tiers can be presented. I think this could be included in a single table which details which tier each area is currently in and provides details of when that area was in a different tier. Currently I think this is hard to see using the information in the way it is presented.
I'd appreciate getting consensus on here before making any changes. Happy to share a proposal of what I think this could look like if that would help. Tracland ( talk) 06:51, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
Current | Area | Periods in Tier 1 | Periods in Tier 2 | Periods in Tier 3 |
---|---|---|---|---|
Tier 1 | Cornwall, the Isles of Scilly, and the Isle of Wight | 2 December 2020 - | N/A | N/A |
Tier 2 | North West: Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Chester, Cumbria, Halton, Knowsley, Liverpool, Sefton, St Helens, Warrington, Wirral
Yorkshire and The Humber: City of York, North Yorkshire East Midlands: Northamptonshire, Rutland West Midlands: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Telford and Wrekin, Worcestershire East of England: Bedford, Cambridgeshire, Central Bedfordshire, Colchester, Dacorum, East Herts, Luton, Milton Keynes, Norfolk, North Herts, Peterborough, Stevenage, St Albans, Suffolk, Tendring, Uttlesford, Welwyn Hatfield South East: Bracknell Forest, Brighton and Hove, Buckinghamshire, East Sussex, Hampshire, Oxfordshire, Portsmouth, Reading, Windsor and Maidenhead, Southampton, Surrey, West Berkshire, West Sussex, Wokingham South West: Bath and North East Somerset, Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole, Devon, Dorset, Gloucestershire (Excluding South Gloucestershire), Plymouth, Somerset (Excluding North Somerset), Swindon, Torbay, Wiltshire |
N/A | 2 December 2020 - | N/A |
Tier 3 | North West: Blackburn with Darwen, Blackpool, Bolton, Bury, Lancashire, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford, Wigan
North East: Darlington, Durham, Gateshead, Hartlepool, Middlesbrough, Newcastle upon Tyne, North Tyneside, Northumberland, Redcar and Cleveland, South Tyneside, Stockton-on-Tees, Sunderland Yorkshire and The Humber: Barnsley, Calderdale, Bradford, Doncaster, East Riding of Yorkshire, Hull, Kirklees, Leeds, North Lincolnshire, Rotherham, Sheffield, Wakefield, North East Lincolnshire East Midlands: Derby, Derbyshire, Leicester, Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Nottingham, Nottinghamshire West Midlands: Birmingham, Coventry, Dudley, Sandwell, Solihull, Staffordshire, Stoke-on-Trent, Walsall, Warwickshire, Wolverhampton South East: Kent, Medway, Slough South West: Bristol, North Somerset, South Gloucestershire |
N/A | N/A | 2 December 2020 - |
East of England: Basildon, Braintree, Brentwood, Broxbourne, Castle Point, Chelmsford, Epping Forest, Harlow, Hertsmere, Maldon, Rochford, Southend-on-Sea, Three Rivers, Thurrock, Watford
London: Westminster, Barking and Dagenham, Barnet, Bexley, Brent, Bromley, Camden, Croydon. Ealing, Enfield, Hackney, Hammersmith and Fulham, Haringey, Harrow, Havering, Hillingdon, Hounslow, Islington, Lambeth, Lewisham, Merton, Newham, Redbridge, Richmond upon Thames, Southwark, Sutton, Tower Hamlets, Waltham Forest, Wandsworth, Greenwich, Kensington and Chelsea, Kingston upon Thames, City of London, Inner Temple and Middle Temple |
N/A | 2 December 2020 - 15 December 2020 | 16 December 2020 - |
Let me know your thoughts Tracland ( talk) 18:58, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
This article seems to have been updated to include many references to tier 4; with references pointing to the legislation. However, at the time of writing the linked legislation doesn't appear to have been amended. So while these changes quite usefully reflect the latest government guidance - it doesn't appear that this article accurately represents the legislation, and the citations do not back-up the claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C7:2124:5400:A082:95F1:E35:7592 ( talk) 00:55, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
These have been extensively amended several times in advance of the statutory instruments being published. Making edits which are unsourced and which list areas neither in alphabetical order nor in the order set out within the regulations makes it very difficult and lengthy to check and source things when the regs are actually published. On publication, it's actually much easier to revert and to work from the known correct previous version, which hardly makes it worth the while putting in a lot of effort to try to beat the publication date by a day or so. MichaelMaggs ( talk) 15:51, 24 December 2020 (UTC)
@ MichaelMaggs: its usual on Wikipedia (and in most cases in the real world) to go by geographical counties not administrative counties since many readers won't know that Swindon isn't administrated by Wiltshire Council. Even in this video by the health secretary they use the likes of "Bedfordshire" and "Portsmouth, Gosport and Havant in Hampshire" and although the Gov list lists Bath and North East Somerset and North Somerset separately it does list Somerset with "(South Somerset, Somerset West and Taunton, Mendip and Sedgemoor)" in brackets. This has been discussed many times and the consensus is generally to go by ceremonial county, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK geography/Archive 13#Medway or Kent for example. Although I'm fine with going by administrative county in the article we should state what UAs are excluded. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 22:25, 27 December 2020 (UTC)
There are currently 4 maps below the changes by date showing the changes following most (but not all of the tier change dates). Ideally if we are going to include these then it would be useful to have these for each of the dates of change. In addition, currently they all use different colour schemes for the different tiers which is confusing. I support these maps being here and think they are a useful inclusion but could we get a common colour scheme across all of the maps? (I would update but, frankly, I don't have a clue how to do this) Tracland ( talk) 14:49, 31 December 2020 (UTC)
I've uploaded versions of the first and second tier system maps with darker greys for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales to try and stave off confusion with the cream-coloured Tier 1. If you think it looks alright I can extend to the maps of past tier iterations too. Rcsprinter123 (parlez) 14:31, 2 January 2021 (UTC)
Although these haven't been revoked yet it might be worth noting that the gov website for then has then as "withdrawn", if we do return to the tiers will another new article be needed like Third COVID-19 tier regulations in England? Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:25, 5 January 2021 (UTC)
I've done the main current changes but haven't touched the changes by date tables at the bottom. I think these are the main things:
One thing that should probably be mentioned here is how other rules apply if people move up tiers, namely if someone moves from tier 3 to tier 1. Its clear on that the "gathering" rules apply whichever is higher if someone moves. However this is less clear with the other restrictions on if they apply to someone moving to a lower tier. Say someone travels from a tier 3 area to a tier 1 and goes into a pub they presumably wouldn't need to take away (tier 3) or even have a substantial meal (tier 2) since the regulations only seem to restrict the businesses in the area it is located. Similarly tier 4 doesn't appear to prohibit people traveling to an area though people must obviously follow tier 4 rules regarding gatherings (see also this). One could probably walk over the border to go to a restaurant and be within the "reasonable excuse" for leaving home since its getting food. As noted there is advice on traveling to or from a tier 3 area but not legally binding. See this and this and this story for example. I would suggest clarity on this be added to the article though it probably has little relevance now given England is expected to ease restrictions nationally. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 18:25, 24 February 2021 (UTC)
Presumably the 1st (8 March) and 2nd (29 March) modifications will be under the All Tiers Regulations since they expire at the end of March. I can't find any legislation for the changes yet but as per the above discussion I'd be careful about adding content until we know what's going on and its the time that its come into force. I'd note that the 1st modification brings us somewhat back to the prior to 6 January (less strict) tier 4 where one can meet 1 other person for the purpose of recreation as opposed to only exercise. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 20:14, 6 March 2021 (UTC)
I assume due to new steps legislation this is now repealed? Steven a91 ( talk) 23:12, 28 March 2021 (UTC)