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There are some grounds for believing that Savai'i may be the original Hawaiki. The Proto-Polynesian form can reasonably be assumed to have been *Sawaiki. According to a series on Hawaiki that aired some time ago on Māori Television, there is a Sawaiki in Fiji. I have been unable to find any other references. If there is such a place, it can reasonably be assumed to be the original. It would be useful to know if the people of Tonga and Niue had the name in their traditions. If not, this would point more definitely to Savai'i in Samoa as the original Hawaiki.
It is likely that Eastern Polynesians applied the name successively to the most recent homeland left behind. For the Māori of New Zealand, this would be in the area of the Cook Islands (the immediate departure point) or Tahiti. I understand that the Moriori people of the Chatham Islands used the name Hawaiki to refer to the New Zealand mainland.— Copey 2 13:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
It is likely that many of the references in the Polynesian traditions have been misread as talking about a 'mythical homeland' when they were actually referring to the Underworld. In many parts of Eastern Polynesia, Avaiki/Havaiki/Hawaiki refers to the underworld. That is true also in some Māori stories - we think when we read them now that Hawaiki means 'ancestral homeland' but reading it as 'the underworld' can make more sense. S. Percy Smith in particular loved to reinterpret the old stories to fit his theories, and once it gets into print, there's no stopping its spread. He did a lot of work in the Cook Islands as well as in NZ and his reinterpretations have made their way into the popular understanding in both places. Witness the monument on Rarotonga to the place where the seven canoes of the (now debunked) Great Fleet left from, as if it was something that was actually recorded in the genuine Cook Islands traditions! It wasn't there until S P Smith made it up Kahuroa 10:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
'Avaiki in the Cook Islands refers to both "the underworld" and "ancestral homeland". I'll get a reference.
Maori rahi 04:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Deleted the following sentence:
It doesn't say which theories, in what way the two are connected, and in any event implies (through the use of the label "pseudohistorical" that the theories aren't reliable or credible anyway. In otherwords, utterly useless non-information! ElectricRay 18:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Secondly while Te Reinga does point physically towards Savai'i that does not mean that New Zealand Māori directly migrated from Savai'i to New Zealand otherwise Samoan and New Zealand Māori would share more vocabulary and grammatical features and cultural practices. As it stands right now, New Zealand Māori has more in common with Cook Islands Māori (southern and northern variants) and Tahitian than Samoan.
Maori rahi ( talk) 15:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
The Cook Islands and Tahiti are places of origin for many New Zealand Maori (let's not forget some claim to come from the land Aotearoa itself). Its like saying England is not the place of origin of the English since they came from areas now known as France, Rome and Germany. Its like saying the Samoans do not originate from Samoa - they originate from Taiwan/Formosa.
Maori rahi (
talk) 07:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I am not qualified to edit the Hawaiki article but am writing to to bring to attention a view on the legends relating to Hawaiki written in the late 1800's by Professor Ratzel. This may provide material for developing the article. It can be viewed at http://www.inquirewithin.biz/history/american_pacific/oceania/migration_legends.htm and other related pages. Jason127 ( talk) 22:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
There is no 'savaiki' in Fiji, to my knowledge
sauali'i ("spirits" in Sāmoan) cannot be a cognate of Savaiki hou'eiki ("chiefs" in Tongan) ? polynesian words have no plural, so this reference must be checked
the real name of 'Fatu Hiva' (official name) in the Marquesas, is 'Fatu iva' not 'Fatu 'iva' (where the word "iva" can be and is interpreted by locals as 'nine/9') S. JOURDAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.107.7 ( talk) 21:53, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Some historians estimated the Lakanate of Lawan (forebear of Kaharian ng Tondo), to have existed on their ancient reign as around circa 70,000 years BC to 1,600 AD. The estimated seat of the epoch is calculated by some historians to be somewhere in the pacific islands of the Philippines, notably the third biggest island of the archipelago in the pacific called Samar -- somewhere in the present “Catubig – Laoang – Palapag” topography. Based on historical records of the Philippines and on recorded siday (the native oral historical epic) or oral Kandu of the people of Samar Island, some names of hadi (indigenous term for Lakan or paramount rulers) mentioned include Lakan Laon, Kerak, Magpog, Lakan Timamanukum, Lakan Arao, Lakan Matayon, Lakan Apula, Lapiton, Patuki, Lakan Biringon, Kalyaw, Makarato, Karagrag, Bingil, Dumaraog, Wihano, Karawton, Lakan Malagas, Taboon, Sangkayon, Waraytanggi, Bathaq, Uhabi, and Hadi Iberein. In the book by historian William Henry Scott, it was said that a “Samar datu by the name of Iberein was rowed out to a Spanish vessel anchored in his harbor in 1543 by oarsmen collared in gold; while wearing on his own person earrings and chains ”, a sign of a long prosperous civilization long before the Spaniards came. In the latest study published in the American journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, an international team of researchers led by Alan Cooper, director of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA (ACAD), at the University of Adelaide used ancient DNA to study the origins and dispersal of ancestral Polynesian chickens. They found that Polynesian chickens had their genetic roots in the Philippines, making that region a candidate for the homeland of the mysterious Lapita people who transported the domesticated birds to the Pacific islands. The estimated dates of the reign of the above mentioned lakans or hadis are still subject of anthropological researches. For so many thousand long years, the Lakanate of Lawan slowly initiated a slow and enduring process of what could be an migration of inhabitants or expansion of their reign to different Polynesian islands in the pacific and inward into the Philippine archipelago that gave rise to the emergence of several prosperous settlements in most part of the country and pacific islands, like the Kingdom of Tondo in Manila.
The second paragraph of § Modern science and practical testing of theories begins:
What does the bolded text refer to? The Malayo-Polynesian family is certainly not restricted to Taiwan, nor are other Austronesian language families in general. -- Thnidu ( talk) 01:56, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Kaoha nui. The article says "there is evidence of Polynesian settlement only in Chile.[11]". There is indeed, much to say about possible connections between the Mapuche culture or artefacts, and the Polynesians navigators. But the link "11" leads to an article that has nothing to deal with polynesian settlement. It talks about camelids. This should be edited. Thank you. -- Papa Ru'au ( talk) 23:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
I would encourage anyone interested to research the DNA of the Batak people of North Sumatra and the Ilocano people in Luzon, as they are closely related to the Polynesians. I discovered through personal research that the Batak (ID) people have 65% of their DNA the same as that of Tonga 2500BP, unlike the Javanese and Balinese who are predominantly descended from DNA found in Laos dated to 3000BP. Out of Taiwan is a nice theory, but there are other possibilities, the Batak people themselves (I'm married to one) say that they have stories about people leaving from Sumatera to both Madagascar and the Pacific, and that they have always been in Sumatra. When I first encountered the Batak people (I'm from Aotearoa New Zealand) I was stunned by the similarity of art forms and language, which sent me off down a rabbit hole. Could be enlightening to research the Indonesian Batak angle further. It certainly blew my mind and changed my perspective. Think more broadly than Taiwan. Just a tip if anyone is interested. 117.20.116.0 ( talk) 02:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
the three homelands the maori say is ra'iatea, Hawaiki, and Tahiti. being that they have a name for ra'iatea which isn't it's old name, is it possible that Hawaiki, really is Hawai'i? 808Poiboy ( talk) 23:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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![]() | It is requested that a map or maps be
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The external tool WordPress Openverse may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
There are some grounds for believing that Savai'i may be the original Hawaiki. The Proto-Polynesian form can reasonably be assumed to have been *Sawaiki. According to a series on Hawaiki that aired some time ago on Māori Television, there is a Sawaiki in Fiji. I have been unable to find any other references. If there is such a place, it can reasonably be assumed to be the original. It would be useful to know if the people of Tonga and Niue had the name in their traditions. If not, this would point more definitely to Savai'i in Samoa as the original Hawaiki.
It is likely that Eastern Polynesians applied the name successively to the most recent homeland left behind. For the Māori of New Zealand, this would be in the area of the Cook Islands (the immediate departure point) or Tahiti. I understand that the Moriori people of the Chatham Islands used the name Hawaiki to refer to the New Zealand mainland.— Copey 2 13:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)
It is likely that many of the references in the Polynesian traditions have been misread as talking about a 'mythical homeland' when they were actually referring to the Underworld. In many parts of Eastern Polynesia, Avaiki/Havaiki/Hawaiki refers to the underworld. That is true also in some Māori stories - we think when we read them now that Hawaiki means 'ancestral homeland' but reading it as 'the underworld' can make more sense. S. Percy Smith in particular loved to reinterpret the old stories to fit his theories, and once it gets into print, there's no stopping its spread. He did a lot of work in the Cook Islands as well as in NZ and his reinterpretations have made their way into the popular understanding in both places. Witness the monument on Rarotonga to the place where the seven canoes of the (now debunked) Great Fleet left from, as if it was something that was actually recorded in the genuine Cook Islands traditions! It wasn't there until S P Smith made it up Kahuroa 10:20, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
'Avaiki in the Cook Islands refers to both "the underworld" and "ancestral homeland". I'll get a reference.
Maori rahi 04:39, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Deleted the following sentence:
It doesn't say which theories, in what way the two are connected, and in any event implies (through the use of the label "pseudohistorical" that the theories aren't reliable or credible anyway. In otherwords, utterly useless non-information! ElectricRay 18:29, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Secondly while Te Reinga does point physically towards Savai'i that does not mean that New Zealand Māori directly migrated from Savai'i to New Zealand otherwise Samoan and New Zealand Māori would share more vocabulary and grammatical features and cultural practices. As it stands right now, New Zealand Māori has more in common with Cook Islands Māori (southern and northern variants) and Tahitian than Samoan.
Maori rahi ( talk) 15:34, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
The Cook Islands and Tahiti are places of origin for many New Zealand Maori (let's not forget some claim to come from the land Aotearoa itself). Its like saying England is not the place of origin of the English since they came from areas now known as France, Rome and Germany. Its like saying the Samoans do not originate from Samoa - they originate from Taiwan/Formosa.
Maori rahi (
talk) 07:25, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
I am not qualified to edit the Hawaiki article but am writing to to bring to attention a view on the legends relating to Hawaiki written in the late 1800's by Professor Ratzel. This may provide material for developing the article. It can be viewed at http://www.inquirewithin.biz/history/american_pacific/oceania/migration_legends.htm and other related pages. Jason127 ( talk) 22:50, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
There is no 'savaiki' in Fiji, to my knowledge
sauali'i ("spirits" in Sāmoan) cannot be a cognate of Savaiki hou'eiki ("chiefs" in Tongan) ? polynesian words have no plural, so this reference must be checked
the real name of 'Fatu Hiva' (official name) in the Marquesas, is 'Fatu iva' not 'Fatu 'iva' (where the word "iva" can be and is interpreted by locals as 'nine/9') S. JOURDAN — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.107.7 ( talk) 21:53, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
Some historians estimated the Lakanate of Lawan (forebear of Kaharian ng Tondo), to have existed on their ancient reign as around circa 70,000 years BC to 1,600 AD. The estimated seat of the epoch is calculated by some historians to be somewhere in the pacific islands of the Philippines, notably the third biggest island of the archipelago in the pacific called Samar -- somewhere in the present “Catubig – Laoang – Palapag” topography. Based on historical records of the Philippines and on recorded siday (the native oral historical epic) or oral Kandu of the people of Samar Island, some names of hadi (indigenous term for Lakan or paramount rulers) mentioned include Lakan Laon, Kerak, Magpog, Lakan Timamanukum, Lakan Arao, Lakan Matayon, Lakan Apula, Lapiton, Patuki, Lakan Biringon, Kalyaw, Makarato, Karagrag, Bingil, Dumaraog, Wihano, Karawton, Lakan Malagas, Taboon, Sangkayon, Waraytanggi, Bathaq, Uhabi, and Hadi Iberein. In the book by historian William Henry Scott, it was said that a “Samar datu by the name of Iberein was rowed out to a Spanish vessel anchored in his harbor in 1543 by oarsmen collared in gold; while wearing on his own person earrings and chains ”, a sign of a long prosperous civilization long before the Spaniards came. In the latest study published in the American journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, an international team of researchers led by Alan Cooper, director of the Australian Centre for Ancient DNA (ACAD), at the University of Adelaide used ancient DNA to study the origins and dispersal of ancestral Polynesian chickens. They found that Polynesian chickens had their genetic roots in the Philippines, making that region a candidate for the homeland of the mysterious Lapita people who transported the domesticated birds to the Pacific islands. The estimated dates of the reign of the above mentioned lakans or hadis are still subject of anthropological researches. For so many thousand long years, the Lakanate of Lawan slowly initiated a slow and enduring process of what could be an migration of inhabitants or expansion of their reign to different Polynesian islands in the pacific and inward into the Philippine archipelago that gave rise to the emergence of several prosperous settlements in most part of the country and pacific islands, like the Kingdom of Tondo in Manila.
The second paragraph of § Modern science and practical testing of theories begins:
What does the bolded text refer to? The Malayo-Polynesian family is certainly not restricted to Taiwan, nor are other Austronesian language families in general. -- Thnidu ( talk) 01:56, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
Kaoha nui. The article says "there is evidence of Polynesian settlement only in Chile.[11]". There is indeed, much to say about possible connections between the Mapuche culture or artefacts, and the Polynesians navigators. But the link "11" leads to an article that has nothing to deal with polynesian settlement. It talks about camelids. This should be edited. Thank you. -- Papa Ru'au ( talk) 23:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
I would encourage anyone interested to research the DNA of the Batak people of North Sumatra and the Ilocano people in Luzon, as they are closely related to the Polynesians. I discovered through personal research that the Batak (ID) people have 65% of their DNA the same as that of Tonga 2500BP, unlike the Javanese and Balinese who are predominantly descended from DNA found in Laos dated to 3000BP. Out of Taiwan is a nice theory, but there are other possibilities, the Batak people themselves (I'm married to one) say that they have stories about people leaving from Sumatera to both Madagascar and the Pacific, and that they have always been in Sumatra. When I first encountered the Batak people (I'm from Aotearoa New Zealand) I was stunned by the similarity of art forms and language, which sent me off down a rabbit hole. Could be enlightening to research the Indonesian Batak angle further. It certainly blew my mind and changed my perspective. Think more broadly than Taiwan. Just a tip if anyone is interested. 117.20.116.0 ( talk) 02:14, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
the three homelands the maori say is ra'iatea, Hawaiki, and Tahiti. being that they have a name for ra'iatea which isn't it's old name, is it possible that Hawaiki, really is Hawai'i? 808Poiboy ( talk) 23:25, 3 April 2024 (UTC)