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![]() | On 1 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from H₂éwsōs to *H₂éwsōs. The result of the discussion was moved. |
When officious censors come to harass us about commonplace mainstream assertions that aren't "documented or that are "original research" elsewhere in Wikipedia, let us recall this entry! -- Wetman 08:31, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Just a thought, but since the Asatru still follow traditional Norse beliefs, shouldn't the word "MYTH" be removed? I would think that was as offensive as me rewtriting all Christian articles and calling Jesus a myth...(hope I did this right, could only comment with the edit button unless I missed something!) Mindwarper06 ( talk) 16:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
To get PIE articles up to standard, we're going to need to produce a list or a set of individual sections to discuss the entities from the folklore record used by scholars to reconstruct the article's subject. I'm thinking a list format may be the wisest means of approaching this, as it'll be the most inclusive and most approachable for readers. We can then get into details about the specific entities on their respective pages. Any opinions on this? :bloodofox: ( talk) 19:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
I have rewritten article and cleaned up all the speculative nonsense introduced by the banned User:Falconfly. See banning discussion here. Azerty82 ( talk) 22:45, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
A Celtic toponym is an exact cognate to the poetic phrase "Heaven's doors" or "Gates of Heaven": the ancient name of the French city of Metz, Divodurum Mediomatricum. Problem is, I cannot seem to find a reliable source that attest the imagery in Celtic mythology.
This paper argues for the Slavic word jutro (morning) to be cognate to PIE hausos: https://www.academia.edu/38174201/Old_Church_Slavonic_j_utro_Vedic_u%E1%B9%A3%C3%A1r-_daybreak_morning_ 179.218.212.120 ( talk) 02:40, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Here is the article that mentions that Austra and Mara may be descendants in Latvian: https://www.academia.edu/40090976/Lh%C3%A9riti%C3%A8re_lettone_de_lAurore_indo-europ%C3%A9enne 2804:14D:5CE7:8E72:A589:244D:37DB:E81 ( talk) 22:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Why is she named "Hausōs"? It looks like it is based on *hₐéusōs but then why isn't it "Haéusōs"? Sławobóg ( talk) 19:54, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Why is the accent of the main reconstructed form on the initial syllable? In the earliest forms of both Sanskrit and Greek (the only languages that directly preserve accent) it is on the second syllable, and Beekes reconstructs it as such. Is the assumption that the -e- grade of the root would have been accented? But which source actually shows this? Johundhar ( talk) 10:47, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
It has come to my attention that an Eastern European fairytale may contain infomration about the Slavic Dawn Maiden: 1) In the book "The Kingdom Under the Sea and Other Stories", by British author Joan Aiken (first published in 1971 and reprinted 2003), a story titled "The Reed-Girl" mentions the encounter of the main protagonist and a figure translated as "Zora-djevojka". ( https://books.google.ht/books?id=45JDDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=zora&f=false)
2) The tale seems based on an earlier story, titled The Reed Maiden, collected by Jeremiah Curtin, in the 19th century ( https://archive.org/details/mythsandfolktal00curtgoog/page/n492/mode/2up).
3) Jeremiah Curtin indicated its source as a compilation of Hungarian fairytales by one Laszlo Merenyi, published in 1861. ( http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39386/39386-h/39386-h.htm#Page_35).
What is *interesting* about the story is that it contains epithets like "Daughter of the Sun" and "Beauty of the Skies"; association with the common colors of Indo-European imagery of the Dawn (silver, golden, copper, purple), mention of Dawn and the protagonist navigating on a boat.
In the original Hungarian tale, she is called "Hajnal", meaning "Dawn". It appears that the Dawn in Hungarian mythology is not a "daughter", but a "mother".
To my mind, it could indicate the presence of the Dawn Maiden in Eastern European mythology, besides Baltic and Russian sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.218.91.213 ( talk) 02:13, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that Zorya, Eos, Aurora and possibly Baltic Dawn/Venus gods are siblings to Sun and Moon, Ushas is also listed with Indra, Agni and Soma. Is there any reconstruction of this? Sławobóg ( talk) 19:45, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
A 1865 Polish-language treatise has a section about "spis bogów zmudzkich i litewskich", something like "List of Gods of Samogitia [Zmudz] and Lituhuania". It lists Auska (variation Aussra) and, in a footnote, mentions "Prw. Oster, Asturija" (Prw - prussików, Prussian). Has there been any follow-up on this since then?
The book: https://books.google.com.br/books?id=6as9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=pt-BR&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false pp. 458-459, footnote 9. 189.122.57.144 ( talk) 00:34, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Alcaios. It has come to my attention that Auseklis may, in fact, not be a female deity, but a male god that represents the morning star. The first piece of information came through an edition by ip user 80.89.73.182, on Auseklis article. I looked further into the matter and it seems he was a male god, as per studies by Elza Kokare and Marija Gimbutas (which I added to Auseklis and "Divine Twins" articles). However, on Gimbutas's book I used for reference, she does refer that Auseklis may appear as a female deity when he is described in the dainas as weaving silk clothes for Saule. Regardless, the general information I gathered was that Auseklis, like Meness, woos Saules meita (the daughter of the female sun in Baltic). 189.122.57.144 ( talk) 03:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
I have removed an addition on the etymology of Aphrodite on the grounds that it is off-topic, WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim, WP:UNDUE, with weak sourcing bordering on [[[WP:FRINGE]] territory. Specifically:
To sum up, we have an a very strong and unusual claim that contradicts mainstream scholarship, sourced to a less than ideal source, that doesn't even belong in the article in the first place. This type of etymological claim is very common on internet forums (it reminds me of stuff like this [5] about the name "Alexander" supposedly having a similar origin), but has no place here. This is a medium visibility article, and the standard for inclusion should be high. Any major controversial major inclusion, such as this, needs to be decided by community consensus. If the usual attempts to ram this material into the article with brute force are made, I will vigorously seek intervention from the listed wikiprojects and other noticeboards. Khirurg ( talk) 21:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Walhaz which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 13:46, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
presently, the article is nigh unreadable to me because it jumps back and forth between different descendant deities and traditions, it feels like it would be much easier to group prose by each culture, the compare and contrast would be much more natural. Remsense 诉 16:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 1 August 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from H₂éwsōs to *H₂éwsōs. The result of the discussion was moved. |
When officious censors come to harass us about commonplace mainstream assertions that aren't "documented or that are "original research" elsewhere in Wikipedia, let us recall this entry! -- Wetman 08:31, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Just a thought, but since the Asatru still follow traditional Norse beliefs, shouldn't the word "MYTH" be removed? I would think that was as offensive as me rewtriting all Christian articles and calling Jesus a myth...(hope I did this right, could only comment with the edit button unless I missed something!) Mindwarper06 ( talk) 16:52, 18 October 2012 (UTC)
To get PIE articles up to standard, we're going to need to produce a list or a set of individual sections to discuss the entities from the folklore record used by scholars to reconstruct the article's subject. I'm thinking a list format may be the wisest means of approaching this, as it'll be the most inclusive and most approachable for readers. We can then get into details about the specific entities on their respective pages. Any opinions on this? :bloodofox: ( talk) 19:17, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
I have rewritten article and cleaned up all the speculative nonsense introduced by the banned User:Falconfly. See banning discussion here. Azerty82 ( talk) 22:45, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
A Celtic toponym is an exact cognate to the poetic phrase "Heaven's doors" or "Gates of Heaven": the ancient name of the French city of Metz, Divodurum Mediomatricum. Problem is, I cannot seem to find a reliable source that attest the imagery in Celtic mythology.
This paper argues for the Slavic word jutro (morning) to be cognate to PIE hausos: https://www.academia.edu/38174201/Old_Church_Slavonic_j_utro_Vedic_u%E1%B9%A3%C3%A1r-_daybreak_morning_ 179.218.212.120 ( talk) 02:40, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
Here is the article that mentions that Austra and Mara may be descendants in Latvian: https://www.academia.edu/40090976/Lh%C3%A9riti%C3%A8re_lettone_de_lAurore_indo-europ%C3%A9enne 2804:14D:5CE7:8E72:A589:244D:37DB:E81 ( talk) 22:53, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Why is she named "Hausōs"? It looks like it is based on *hₐéusōs but then why isn't it "Haéusōs"? Sławobóg ( talk) 19:54, 31 July 2020 (UTC)
Why is the accent of the main reconstructed form on the initial syllable? In the earliest forms of both Sanskrit and Greek (the only languages that directly preserve accent) it is on the second syllable, and Beekes reconstructs it as such. Is the assumption that the -e- grade of the root would have been accented? But which source actually shows this? Johundhar ( talk) 10:47, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
It has come to my attention that an Eastern European fairytale may contain infomration about the Slavic Dawn Maiden: 1) In the book "The Kingdom Under the Sea and Other Stories", by British author Joan Aiken (first published in 1971 and reprinted 2003), a story titled "The Reed-Girl" mentions the encounter of the main protagonist and a figure translated as "Zora-djevojka". ( https://books.google.ht/books?id=45JDDwAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=fr&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q=zora&f=false)
2) The tale seems based on an earlier story, titled The Reed Maiden, collected by Jeremiah Curtin, in the 19th century ( https://archive.org/details/mythsandfolktal00curtgoog/page/n492/mode/2up).
3) Jeremiah Curtin indicated its source as a compilation of Hungarian fairytales by one Laszlo Merenyi, published in 1861. ( http://www.gutenberg.org/files/39386/39386-h/39386-h.htm#Page_35).
What is *interesting* about the story is that it contains epithets like "Daughter of the Sun" and "Beauty of the Skies"; association with the common colors of Indo-European imagery of the Dawn (silver, golden, copper, purple), mention of Dawn and the protagonist navigating on a boat.
In the original Hungarian tale, she is called "Hajnal", meaning "Dawn". It appears that the Dawn in Hungarian mythology is not a "daughter", but a "mother".
To my mind, it could indicate the presence of the Dawn Maiden in Eastern European mythology, besides Baltic and Russian sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 179.218.91.213 ( talk) 02:13, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I noticed that Zorya, Eos, Aurora and possibly Baltic Dawn/Venus gods are siblings to Sun and Moon, Ushas is also listed with Indra, Agni and Soma. Is there any reconstruction of this? Sławobóg ( talk) 19:45, 27 March 2021 (UTC)
A 1865 Polish-language treatise has a section about "spis bogów zmudzkich i litewskich", something like "List of Gods of Samogitia [Zmudz] and Lituhuania". It lists Auska (variation Aussra) and, in a footnote, mentions "Prw. Oster, Asturija" (Prw - prussików, Prussian). Has there been any follow-up on this since then?
The book: https://books.google.com.br/books?id=6as9AAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=pt-BR&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false pp. 458-459, footnote 9. 189.122.57.144 ( talk) 00:34, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
Hello, Alcaios. It has come to my attention that Auseklis may, in fact, not be a female deity, but a male god that represents the morning star. The first piece of information came through an edition by ip user 80.89.73.182, on Auseklis article. I looked further into the matter and it seems he was a male god, as per studies by Elza Kokare and Marija Gimbutas (which I added to Auseklis and "Divine Twins" articles). However, on Gimbutas's book I used for reference, she does refer that Auseklis may appear as a female deity when he is described in the dainas as weaving silk clothes for Saule. Regardless, the general information I gathered was that Auseklis, like Meness, woos Saules meita (the daughter of the female sun in Baltic). 189.122.57.144 ( talk) 03:18, 14 June 2021 (UTC)
I have removed an addition on the etymology of Aphrodite on the grounds that it is off-topic, WP:EXTRAORDINARY claim, WP:UNDUE, with weak sourcing bordering on [[[WP:FRINGE]] territory. Specifically:
To sum up, we have an a very strong and unusual claim that contradicts mainstream scholarship, sourced to a less than ideal source, that doesn't even belong in the article in the first place. This type of etymological claim is very common on internet forums (it reminds me of stuff like this [5] about the name "Alexander" supposedly having a similar origin), but has no place here. This is a medium visibility article, and the standard for inclusion should be high. Any major controversial major inclusion, such as this, needs to be decided by community consensus. If the usual attempts to ram this material into the article with brute force are made, I will vigorously seek intervention from the listed wikiprojects and other noticeboards. Khirurg ( talk) 21:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Walhaz which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 13:46, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
presently, the article is nigh unreadable to me because it jumps back and forth between different descendant deities and traditions, it feels like it would be much easier to group prose by each culture, the compare and contrast would be much more natural. Remsense 诉 16:48, 26 February 2024 (UTC)