![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
Is there any reference that the Democrats have used this as a rule when they were in the majority? Uberhill 02:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
The examples within the article indicate that it's a Republican rule. Hastert, whom the rule was named after was a Republican. Nancy Pelosi, the only Democratic Speaker since Hastert, eschewed the rule. Plenty of third parties cite it as a Republican rule. I'm implementing this edit. -- Elleessekay ( talk) 16:12, 19 December 2020 (UTC) [1]
It's only used by political parties that platform on "government is dysfunctional". 72.83.205.169 ( talk) 14:04, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
References
The article was moved from "Majority of the majority" to "Hastert Rule" without meaningful discussion. I'm not 100% opposed to this change but I do think it merits a short discussion. "Hastert Rule" certainly sounds snappier but one issue is that, as described in the article, while the rule has been ascribed to Hastert it started before him and continued after him, making it somewhat misleading. Also, a Google web search for "majority of the majority" turns up 966,000,000 hits while "Hastert rule" turns up 86,700 hits. That may be affected by Wikipedia, however, as well as the fact that "majority of the majority" might be used to refer to other things. A Google news search turns up "majority of the majority" 2,150 times and "Hastert rule" 2,320 times, roughly indicating a near-even split in reliable sources. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 18:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Ok, looking at the NY Times and the WaPo, the two most reliable sources on this in my opinion, they seem to lean toward "Hastert Rule" or "Hastert rule." (Times has lowercase r, Post has uppercase R.) So I'm fine with this. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 19:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The near-parity in usage from Google News, NYT, etc. is likely due tobm how current events are reported. As they were writing about "majority of the majority rule" during the speakership of Denis Hastert, calling it theb "Hastert rule" is an easy shorthand to the wordy alternative. That doesn't mean, as exitors, we should also use "Hastert rule". As pointed out above, the concept predates Hastert. Further—and more significantly—"majority of the majority" is a concept which is not exclusive to the U.S. Congress. When used elsewhere, it most certainly is not caused the Hastert Rule. For these reasons, we should take up the renaming the article back to the broader, more general title. Senator2029 【talk】 02:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help){{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)You say here that the claim (that it is done only be the GOP) is cited elsewhere in the article, but the claim is not even claimed elsewhere in the article. It it was there in the past it is not anymore-- so the claim in the lead looks like random vandalism.
If there is a RS somewhere in the article to back-up this claim, then it does no good when it is nowhere paired-up with the claim that needs the citation. tahc chat 03:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
If either you you had stopped bickering and pretending to be political analysts and had checked the reliable sources already cited in our article and elsewhere, you would have seen there is ample support for the "Republican" claim. I have added it. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 23:03, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
It's a GOP rule, crafted by and sometimes followed by Republicans; it has never been a rule of or followed by the Democrats. It's not possible for Pelosi or any other Democrat to have "violated" the rule since they never subscribed to it in the first place. Any claims or implications to the contrary are obfuscatory. And claims that it's "original research" to say that it's a Republican rule are nonsense. Hastert's a Republican. Boehner is a Republican. Gingrich is a Republican. The people who formulated the rule and the only people have ever followed the rule or have been stated to have followed the rule are Republicans. The only "majority of the majority" to which the rule has ever applied or been applied are Republicans. For instance,
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/john-boehner-hastert-rule-immigration-093511 says "unless it has the support of the majority of House Republicans", and quotes Republican Boehner as saying "the support of the majority of our members", referring to Republicans. And it says "must have the support of the majority of the House’s 234 Republicans", and "Conservatives in Boehner’s House Republican Conference have been pressuring him to adhere to the so-called Hastert rule". The GOP phrases the rule in terms of "the majority party" as a pretense that this applies to both parties, but it clearly does not, and Wikipedia should not be doing their bidding by maintaining the ruse. --
Jibal (
talk)
10:22, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Earlier today I redacted some non-neutral WP:Original research and was reverted. The disputed text is shown in strikeout from a 3 sentence paragraph which reads
Reasons
1. Sentence 1 was struck because it leads in to sentences 2 and 3 which themselves are problematic.
2. "On the positive side" was struck because (A) it is not what the source says and (B) makes the non-neutral wikivoice statement that this is the way it is rather than this is the (mischaracterized) opinion of the writer. The source ambiguously states "There are many reasons why a “majority of the majority” doctrine makes political sense. Clearly, any leadership that regularly runs counter to the wishes of the majority of its caucus will find itself enjoying a very short tenure." The only "political sense" the source mentions is that it helps the speaker keep their job. This may or may not be viewed as a positive by the speaker (just ask John Boehner), but is it "positive" for you? For me? For the president? For the goal of governing overall? The article does not say. Therefore, editors should not conflate the source's statement about the rule usually making political sense from the perspective of the current house leadership into a wikivoice value statement that the rule is "positive" generally, for everyone.
3. Finally, unless the sources are overwhelmingly consistent we should also not say in wikivoice that a breakdown of the legislative process, or any of these other consequences, are necessarily "negative", especially in wikivoice instead of attributing the opinion to the author.
I'm surprised this edit was not the gnomish apple polishing I though it to be and will be returning to a self imposed wikibreak. Restore by self re-revert or not, up to you and others. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 18:50, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||
|
Is there any reference that the Democrats have used this as a rule when they were in the majority? Uberhill 02:01, 13 December 2012 (UTC)
The examples within the article indicate that it's a Republican rule. Hastert, whom the rule was named after was a Republican. Nancy Pelosi, the only Democratic Speaker since Hastert, eschewed the rule. Plenty of third parties cite it as a Republican rule. I'm implementing this edit. -- Elleessekay ( talk) 16:12, 19 December 2020 (UTC) [1]
It's only used by political parties that platform on "government is dysfunctional". 72.83.205.169 ( talk) 14:04, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
References
The article was moved from "Majority of the majority" to "Hastert Rule" without meaningful discussion. I'm not 100% opposed to this change but I do think it merits a short discussion. "Hastert Rule" certainly sounds snappier but one issue is that, as described in the article, while the rule has been ascribed to Hastert it started before him and continued after him, making it somewhat misleading. Also, a Google web search for "majority of the majority" turns up 966,000,000 hits while "Hastert rule" turns up 86,700 hits. That may be affected by Wikipedia, however, as well as the fact that "majority of the majority" might be used to refer to other things. A Google news search turns up "majority of the majority" 2,150 times and "Hastert rule" 2,320 times, roughly indicating a near-even split in reliable sources. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 18:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
Ok, looking at the NY Times and the WaPo, the two most reliable sources on this in my opinion, they seem to lean toward "Hastert Rule" or "Hastert rule." (Times has lowercase r, Post has uppercase R.) So I'm fine with this. -- Nstrauss ( talk) 19:50, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
The near-parity in usage from Google News, NYT, etc. is likely due tobm how current events are reported. As they were writing about "majority of the majority rule" during the speakership of Denis Hastert, calling it theb "Hastert rule" is an easy shorthand to the wordy alternative. That doesn't mean, as exitors, we should also use "Hastert rule". As pointed out above, the concept predates Hastert. Further—and more significantly—"majority of the majority" is a concept which is not exclusive to the U.S. Congress. When used elsewhere, it most certainly is not caused the Hastert Rule. For these reasons, we should take up the renaming the article back to the broader, more general title. Senator2029 【talk】 02:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help){{
cite news}}
: Italic or bold markup not allowed in: |publisher=
(
help)You say here that the claim (that it is done only be the GOP) is cited elsewhere in the article, but the claim is not even claimed elsewhere in the article. It it was there in the past it is not anymore-- so the claim in the lead looks like random vandalism.
If there is a RS somewhere in the article to back-up this claim, then it does no good when it is nowhere paired-up with the claim that needs the citation. tahc chat 03:41, 12 December 2014 (UTC)
If either you you had stopped bickering and pretending to be political analysts and had checked the reliable sources already cited in our article and elsewhere, you would have seen there is ample support for the "Republican" claim. I have added it. -- Dr. Fleischman ( talk) 23:03, 14 December 2014 (UTC)
It's a GOP rule, crafted by and sometimes followed by Republicans; it has never been a rule of or followed by the Democrats. It's not possible for Pelosi or any other Democrat to have "violated" the rule since they never subscribed to it in the first place. Any claims or implications to the contrary are obfuscatory. And claims that it's "original research" to say that it's a Republican rule are nonsense. Hastert's a Republican. Boehner is a Republican. Gingrich is a Republican. The people who formulated the rule and the only people have ever followed the rule or have been stated to have followed the rule are Republicans. The only "majority of the majority" to which the rule has ever applied or been applied are Republicans. For instance,
http://www.politico.com/story/2013/06/john-boehner-hastert-rule-immigration-093511 says "unless it has the support of the majority of House Republicans", and quotes Republican Boehner as saying "the support of the majority of our members", referring to Republicans. And it says "must have the support of the majority of the House’s 234 Republicans", and "Conservatives in Boehner’s House Republican Conference have been pressuring him to adhere to the so-called Hastert rule". The GOP phrases the rule in terms of "the majority party" as a pretense that this applies to both parties, but it clearly does not, and Wikipedia should not be doing their bidding by maintaining the ruse. --
Jibal (
talk)
10:22, 10 April 2017 (UTC)
Earlier today I redacted some non-neutral WP:Original research and was reverted. The disputed text is shown in strikeout from a 3 sentence paragraph which reads
Reasons
1. Sentence 1 was struck because it leads in to sentences 2 and 3 which themselves are problematic.
2. "On the positive side" was struck because (A) it is not what the source says and (B) makes the non-neutral wikivoice statement that this is the way it is rather than this is the (mischaracterized) opinion of the writer. The source ambiguously states "There are many reasons why a “majority of the majority” doctrine makes political sense. Clearly, any leadership that regularly runs counter to the wishes of the majority of its caucus will find itself enjoying a very short tenure." The only "political sense" the source mentions is that it helps the speaker keep their job. This may or may not be viewed as a positive by the speaker (just ask John Boehner), but is it "positive" for you? For me? For the president? For the goal of governing overall? The article does not say. Therefore, editors should not conflate the source's statement about the rule usually making political sense from the perspective of the current house leadership into a wikivoice value statement that the rule is "positive" generally, for everyone.
3. Finally, unless the sources are overwhelmingly consistent we should also not say in wikivoice that a breakdown of the legislative process, or any of these other consequences, are necessarily "negative", especially in wikivoice instead of attributing the opinion to the author.
I'm surprised this edit was not the gnomish apple polishing I though it to be and will be returning to a self imposed wikibreak. Restore by self re-revert or not, up to you and others. NewsAndEventsGuy ( talk) 18:50, 21 October 2015 (UTC)