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Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
As long as I had to go dig it up for Talk:HP (disambiguation), I figured I'd repeat it here: a search of major world newspapers and major world publications on hp and harry potter returns over 1000 hits. hp occurring within 5 words of harry potter returns 152 hits. hp and rowling, 496. hp and rowling and not harry potter turns up 46 news sources that use HP and Rowling but do not spell out that the "HP" referenced is Harry Potter. Most recent of those: The Observer (England), July 22, 2007, Observer Review Arts Pages; Pg. 30. -- JHunterJ 23:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The complaints about the lack of evidence continues at Talk:HP (disambiguation), so here's another: "When I read to my son at bedtime, a young wizard's world awakens", Robin Johnston, The Charlotte Observer, p. 1E, July 15, 2007. "Harry" and "HP" are used, but the word "Potter" does not appear in the text (although she does reference "Potterhead"). Enjoy! -- JHunterJ 11:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The article describes the series as a "hepatology." I beleive that the correct spelling of the word is "herpatology," meaning the study of reptiles. This is very confusing to ameteur HP fans, as reptiles, such as Voldemort's snake, are in the book, but the book is not about the snake but the boy. Harry can talk to snakes, but on the other hand the snakes can talk back to Harry. The books really din't give much information about snakes, it just has them in them. It's kind of like that movie, the Astronaut Farmer, which seems like its about space travel, which draws a large audience. Then it turns out that its not about space, but about the Farmer and his family. One of the actors in the movie is John Greis. He was also Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite. This brings me to my second point. There should be an article about how books and movies parody each other, like Harry Potter, The Napoleon Dynamite, and The Red Badge of Courage. In essence, all of these books are about the same thing: a young man who grows up. Of course, one can argue that John Cambell and George Lucas have also good examples for this article. In any case, an article about similar thematic books and movies should be created. In his memoirs, Richard Nixon describes cinema as the "predominant art and media of the emerging century" This view embodies the changes of the times, just as does the death of the VHS tape. When Harry Potter the movie came out, it was released on Video and DVD. Now, Harry Potter makes DVD's, which hhave certain benefits and flaws. someone should talk to the harry potter people and tell them to put harry Potter back on VHS, or in any case, on UHF. Harry Potter parodies Sienfeld on anumber 0f levels. Jerry's comedic jenius is evident in harry, and Rons whiney attitude is clearly drawn from George costanza. Hermoine is like elaine because they are both girls, and Snape takes after Kramer in the sense that the burst through doors. 204.102.108.31 19:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to point out that the "American English" translation is a mess. It is inconsistent (Mrs. Weasley is "Mom" in the first book and "Mum" in the last); it is incomplete (what is a Head Boy?); and in one notorious case it ruined the writer's intention ("Philosopher's Stone" has a long pedigree; the American translation "Sorcerer's Stone" is meaningless). The American publishers would have been better off publishing what Rowling wrote, maybe adding a glossary of British terms. CharlesTheBold 04:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
It is quite evident that the American translation is not a full force conveyance of Rawling's message, but thus is the American Transendental tradition. It is not always to be expected that the secret freemason society will edit American literature, but it can happen, and usually it makes the litterature more rich in literary value. I will further illustrate my point with an Anecdote. Once I was in Griffith park for peace day, and Jane goodall spoke. She talked like harry potter, but the peace people still clapped for her. Then a man was selling Lebanese pine trees, and made many refrences to the bourne supremacy, a movie. However much american literature changes from state to state, its still OK. 204.102.108.31 20:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't beleive that you have a healthy appreciation for the gravity of what I'm saying. Just as in William Faulkner's Absalom! Absalom!, the Harry Potter has become an american Icon. When poeple in America hear the word "British", They think of Harry Potter. It is thus important that the message of the boy who lived be spread clearly to america and not be lost in translation. Let me explain with another Anecdote (an anecdote is another name for a "story"). Mitotic division is integral to the life of animals. After the Gap 2 phase, the cell begins mitosis. In interphase, the DNA is Duplicated. In phrophase, the nuclear membrane dissapears. In metaphase, the chromosomes line up along the equator and are pulled apart during anaphase by spindle fibers coming from the centrioles, and in telophase the cell undergoes cytokinesis, which splits it apart. Now, (if it isn't self evident) Harry potter represents the chromosomes and the spindle fibers are his readers. The centrioles are the almighty dollar, or in Harry's case, Galleon! However, the Ron Weasley and his fellow freedom fighters are not evident in this example. The message, however, rings clearer than the bell on Captain Crunches Ship: American Literature can vary in depth and in translation. 204.102.108.31 20:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It hes become clear to me that the article fails to mention the influence of the American Transendental tradition, which hearkens back to the days of Walt Whitman and Ralph Waldo Emerson. This is truly the case and, if not corrected disgraces the legacy's of these great writers. 204.102.108.31 20:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I added this under Themes: "Nonetheless, the books do not contain any sexual scenes, and the reader is left with the impression that both Harry and Ron remain virgins until after the Battle of Hogwarts." This is very relevant since most 17-18-year-old teenagers in the UK have had sex. Please explain why this observation should not have a right. -- Law Lord ( talk) 09:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) Lawlord wrote: "It is a matter of fact that both Ron and Harry remain virgins until after the Battle of Hogwarts, since the author has provided no scenes which would indicate the contrary". Are we also to assume that in over the course of the seven books that none of the characters pooped, clipped their nails or changed their underwear, since 'the author has provided no scenes which would indicate the contrary'? As well, the suggestion that most 16-17 y.o.'s have had sex is purely OR. There isn't a leg to stand on regarding this matter, which I think I can safely say is pretty much done. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 14:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
By the way, the personal attacks here started when asyndeton wrote "I remove an awful lot of OR, speculation, fancruft and rubbish, such as your additions." Calling other peoples edits "rubbish" is very rude, and therefore I made Asyndeton aware of the fact that he is a rude person. Wikipedia has no use for rude people. Especially not for rude people who do not contribute but merely deletes the contributions of others. Such a person is Asyndeton, and I simply pointed that out. -- Law Lord ( talk) 12:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I've lost count of the number of attacks and attackers above, and I don't really care either. Mixed in between the incivilties are a number of valid points; could we please focus on those instead. So let's start over - below the double line, please add relevant views and arguments only. (Feel free to repeat relevant things below - it's hard to find among all the other stuff above.)-- Niels Ø (noe) 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
In a book about teenagers, sexual themes are not uncommon or unnatural, but in actual fact, the HP series does not go beyond a bit of kissing and some crushes (well, in the 17 years long interval before the epilogue, more must have happened, but none the less...). Does the absense of more explicitly sexual themes deserve a mention in the article? I think not, but of course other opinions are possible, if valid arguments are supplied. If so, I think a text agreeable to all or most editors should be constructed here at the talk page before it's added to the article.-- Niels Ø (noe) 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
When I have more time, I will post my suggestion for a text on the sexual themes. Right now, I do not have time for this. I think many (some more than others) have been engaging in personal attacks, for which I note, nobody has offered any apology. For any part in said personal attacks, I have had, I apologize. -- Law Lord 11:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I am posting this again because only things at the bottom of the page ever get looked at. Now, anyways, Please look at all my previous works on this page, not enough attention has been paid to them. 204.102.108.31 ( talk) 02:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I would propose adding the following text: ""Renowned fantasy author Ursula Le Guin has expressed a rather unfavourable opinion based on the first book, calling it "stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited". Reference: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428,00.html""
Since the article is protected. I can't do it. If a moderator adds this content for me it would be much appreciated. 201.141.226.245 ( talk) 09:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)Mexican cinema fan
I see your point. It was not my intention to use weasel words to further a POV. Perhaps quoting more of the text from the link will be more acceptable. Le Guin's whole paragraph goes as follows: "I have no great opinion of it. When so many adult critics were carrying on about the "incredible originality" of the first Harry Potter book, I read it to find out what the fuss was about, and remained somewhat puzzled; it seemed a lively kid's fantasy crossed with a "school novel", good fare for its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited." I hope this helps to justify the inclusion of the quote in the article, considering also that Le Guin is a respectable fantasy author.
200.94.69.93
20:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC) Mexican cinema fan.
As I am unfamiliar with how to add an archive with the automatic archiving system in place (which was an utter mistake by the way), could I entreat someone to archive most of the above as stale-dated and/or resolved conversation? Pls let me know how you did it, so i will know for the future. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 04:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
There are several points in the article where it says in big bright red letters, "Cite error: Invalid < ref > tag; name cannot be a simple integer, use a descriptive title" I suppose they were put there for a reason, but I don't know how to change them to normal cite disclaimers. Could someone with more know-how fix that problem? Thanks! 71.75.103.239 ( talk) 23:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
From Daily Mail and the Rowling interview in Time magazine: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=7087&count=0 Don't know if it qualifies for inclusion. You decide. — Eickenberg ( talk) 16:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
In reference to "Indeed as the series progresses, each book gets progressively longer, developing along with the reader's literary abilities. A word-count comparison shows how each book, save the sixth, is longer than its predecessor, requiring greater concentration and longer attention spans to complete."
- the second sentence contradicts the first. Surely ti should read "the books generally get longer" or something.
- It's the fifth book - The Order of the Phoenix - that's longest. At least according to the Wikipedia article.
Perhaps a table of word counts would be more illustrative?
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | Archive 13 | → | Archive 15 |
As long as I had to go dig it up for Talk:HP (disambiguation), I figured I'd repeat it here: a search of major world newspapers and major world publications on hp and harry potter returns over 1000 hits. hp occurring within 5 words of harry potter returns 152 hits. hp and rowling, 496. hp and rowling and not harry potter turns up 46 news sources that use HP and Rowling but do not spell out that the "HP" referenced is Harry Potter. Most recent of those: The Observer (England), July 22, 2007, Observer Review Arts Pages; Pg. 30. -- JHunterJ 23:04, 16 October 2007 (UTC)
The complaints about the lack of evidence continues at Talk:HP (disambiguation), so here's another: "When I read to my son at bedtime, a young wizard's world awakens", Robin Johnston, The Charlotte Observer, p. 1E, July 15, 2007. "Harry" and "HP" are used, but the word "Potter" does not appear in the text (although she does reference "Potterhead"). Enjoy! -- JHunterJ 11:44, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
The article describes the series as a "hepatology." I beleive that the correct spelling of the word is "herpatology," meaning the study of reptiles. This is very confusing to ameteur HP fans, as reptiles, such as Voldemort's snake, are in the book, but the book is not about the snake but the boy. Harry can talk to snakes, but on the other hand the snakes can talk back to Harry. The books really din't give much information about snakes, it just has them in them. It's kind of like that movie, the Astronaut Farmer, which seems like its about space travel, which draws a large audience. Then it turns out that its not about space, but about the Farmer and his family. One of the actors in the movie is John Greis. He was also Uncle Rico in Napoleon Dynamite. This brings me to my second point. There should be an article about how books and movies parody each other, like Harry Potter, The Napoleon Dynamite, and The Red Badge of Courage. In essence, all of these books are about the same thing: a young man who grows up. Of course, one can argue that John Cambell and George Lucas have also good examples for this article. In any case, an article about similar thematic books and movies should be created. In his memoirs, Richard Nixon describes cinema as the "predominant art and media of the emerging century" This view embodies the changes of the times, just as does the death of the VHS tape. When Harry Potter the movie came out, it was released on Video and DVD. Now, Harry Potter makes DVD's, which hhave certain benefits and flaws. someone should talk to the harry potter people and tell them to put harry Potter back on VHS, or in any case, on UHF. Harry Potter parodies Sienfeld on anumber 0f levels. Jerry's comedic jenius is evident in harry, and Rons whiney attitude is clearly drawn from George costanza. Hermoine is like elaine because they are both girls, and Snape takes after Kramer in the sense that the burst through doors. 204.102.108.31 19:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
I would just like to point out that the "American English" translation is a mess. It is inconsistent (Mrs. Weasley is "Mom" in the first book and "Mum" in the last); it is incomplete (what is a Head Boy?); and in one notorious case it ruined the writer's intention ("Philosopher's Stone" has a long pedigree; the American translation "Sorcerer's Stone" is meaningless). The American publishers would have been better off publishing what Rowling wrote, maybe adding a glossary of British terms. CharlesTheBold 04:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
It is quite evident that the American translation is not a full force conveyance of Rawling's message, but thus is the American Transendental tradition. It is not always to be expected that the secret freemason society will edit American literature, but it can happen, and usually it makes the litterature more rich in literary value. I will further illustrate my point with an Anecdote. Once I was in Griffith park for peace day, and Jane goodall spoke. She talked like harry potter, but the peace people still clapped for her. Then a man was selling Lebanese pine trees, and made many refrences to the bourne supremacy, a movie. However much american literature changes from state to state, its still OK. 204.102.108.31 20:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't beleive that you have a healthy appreciation for the gravity of what I'm saying. Just as in William Faulkner's Absalom! Absalom!, the Harry Potter has become an american Icon. When poeple in America hear the word "British", They think of Harry Potter. It is thus important that the message of the boy who lived be spread clearly to america and not be lost in translation. Let me explain with another Anecdote (an anecdote is another name for a "story"). Mitotic division is integral to the life of animals. After the Gap 2 phase, the cell begins mitosis. In interphase, the DNA is Duplicated. In phrophase, the nuclear membrane dissapears. In metaphase, the chromosomes line up along the equator and are pulled apart during anaphase by spindle fibers coming from the centrioles, and in telophase the cell undergoes cytokinesis, which splits it apart. Now, (if it isn't self evident) Harry potter represents the chromosomes and the spindle fibers are his readers. The centrioles are the almighty dollar, or in Harry's case, Galleon! However, the Ron Weasley and his fellow freedom fighters are not evident in this example. The message, however, rings clearer than the bell on Captain Crunches Ship: American Literature can vary in depth and in translation. 204.102.108.31 20:52, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
It hes become clear to me that the article fails to mention the influence of the American Transendental tradition, which hearkens back to the days of Walt Whitman and Ralph Waldo Emerson. This is truly the case and, if not corrected disgraces the legacy's of these great writers. 204.102.108.31 20:56, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
I added this under Themes: "Nonetheless, the books do not contain any sexual scenes, and the reader is left with the impression that both Harry and Ron remain virgins until after the Battle of Hogwarts." This is very relevant since most 17-18-year-old teenagers in the UK have had sex. Please explain why this observation should not have a right. -- Law Lord ( talk) 09:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
(outdent) Lawlord wrote: "It is a matter of fact that both Ron and Harry remain virgins until after the Battle of Hogwarts, since the author has provided no scenes which would indicate the contrary". Are we also to assume that in over the course of the seven books that none of the characters pooped, clipped their nails or changed their underwear, since 'the author has provided no scenes which would indicate the contrary'? As well, the suggestion that most 16-17 y.o.'s have had sex is purely OR. There isn't a leg to stand on regarding this matter, which I think I can safely say is pretty much done. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 14:30, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
By the way, the personal attacks here started when asyndeton wrote "I remove an awful lot of OR, speculation, fancruft and rubbish, such as your additions." Calling other peoples edits "rubbish" is very rude, and therefore I made Asyndeton aware of the fact that he is a rude person. Wikipedia has no use for rude people. Especially not for rude people who do not contribute but merely deletes the contributions of others. Such a person is Asyndeton, and I simply pointed that out. -- Law Lord ( talk) 12:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
I've lost count of the number of attacks and attackers above, and I don't really care either. Mixed in between the incivilties are a number of valid points; could we please focus on those instead. So let's start over - below the double line, please add relevant views and arguments only. (Feel free to repeat relevant things below - it's hard to find among all the other stuff above.)-- Niels Ø (noe) 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
In a book about teenagers, sexual themes are not uncommon or unnatural, but in actual fact, the HP series does not go beyond a bit of kissing and some crushes (well, in the 17 years long interval before the epilogue, more must have happened, but none the less...). Does the absense of more explicitly sexual themes deserve a mention in the article? I think not, but of course other opinions are possible, if valid arguments are supplied. If so, I think a text agreeable to all or most editors should be constructed here at the talk page before it's added to the article.-- Niels Ø (noe) 13:31, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
(edit conflict)
When I have more time, I will post my suggestion for a text on the sexual themes. Right now, I do not have time for this. I think many (some more than others) have been engaging in personal attacks, for which I note, nobody has offered any apology. For any part in said personal attacks, I have had, I apologize. -- Law Lord 11:02, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I am posting this again because only things at the bottom of the page ever get looked at. Now, anyways, Please look at all my previous works on this page, not enough attention has been paid to them. 204.102.108.31 ( talk) 02:09, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I would propose adding the following text: ""Renowned fantasy author Ursula Le Guin has expressed a rather unfavourable opinion based on the first book, calling it "stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited". Reference: http://books.guardian.co.uk/departments/sciencefiction/story/0,6000,1144428,00.html""
Since the article is protected. I can't do it. If a moderator adds this content for me it would be much appreciated. 201.141.226.245 ( talk) 09:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)Mexican cinema fan
I see your point. It was not my intention to use weasel words to further a POV. Perhaps quoting more of the text from the link will be more acceptable. Le Guin's whole paragraph goes as follows: "I have no great opinion of it. When so many adult critics were carrying on about the "incredible originality" of the first Harry Potter book, I read it to find out what the fuss was about, and remained somewhat puzzled; it seemed a lively kid's fantasy crossed with a "school novel", good fare for its age group, but stylistically ordinary, imaginatively derivative, and ethically rather mean-spirited." I hope this helps to justify the inclusion of the quote in the article, considering also that Le Guin is a respectable fantasy author.
200.94.69.93
20:11, 30 November 2007 (UTC) Mexican cinema fan.
As I am unfamiliar with how to add an archive with the automatic archiving system in place (which was an utter mistake by the way), could I entreat someone to archive most of the above as stale-dated and/or resolved conversation? Pls let me know how you did it, so i will know for the future. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 04:21, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
There are several points in the article where it says in big bright red letters, "Cite error: Invalid < ref > tag; name cannot be a simple integer, use a descriptive title" I suppose they were put there for a reason, but I don't know how to change them to normal cite disclaimers. Could someone with more know-how fix that problem? Thanks! 71.75.103.239 ( talk) 23:53, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
From Daily Mail and the Rowling interview in Time magazine: http://www.worstpreviews.com/headline.php?id=7087&count=0 Don't know if it qualifies for inclusion. You decide. — Eickenberg ( talk) 16:58, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
In reference to "Indeed as the series progresses, each book gets progressively longer, developing along with the reader's literary abilities. A word-count comparison shows how each book, save the sixth, is longer than its predecessor, requiring greater concentration and longer attention spans to complete."
- the second sentence contradicts the first. Surely ti should read "the books generally get longer" or something.
- It's the fifth book - The Order of the Phoenix - that's longest. At least according to the Wikipedia article.
Perhaps a table of word counts would be more illustrative?
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |