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Sadly, the cited version of the Ballad of Harry Pollitt is so poorly recollected that it does not scan and would be impossible to sing; it is also poorly punctuated. The actual words for the first three stanzas, as sung on numerous occasions, are:
Now, Harry was a Bolshie, and one of Lenin's lads, Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads, By reactionary cads, by reactionary cads, Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads.
He came before St Peter, trembling at the knees: 'Oh, may I speak to comrade God, I'm Harry Pollitt, please? I'm Harry Pollitt, please; I'm Harry Pollitt, please; Oh, may I speak to comrade God, I'm Harry Pollitt, please?'
'Very well', said Peter, 'if you're humble and contrite And a friend of Lady Astor, then OK, you'll be alright; OK, you'll be alright; OK, you'll be alright; And a friend of Lady Astor, then OK, you'll be alright'.
Mountdrayton ( talk) 23:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
I've edited the article to be less of a hagiography than it previously was, and closer to a neutral position. Particularly:
The three citations of Monty Johnstone added by FOARP are incomplete in the JSTOR source: "1930–194". Spicemix ( talk) 20:09, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
I've deleted the information sourced only to the book "Red Lives" as it appears to have been written by members of the Communist Party of Britain's anniversary team as part of a centenary celebration. This source also attributes the authorship/publication of the book to CPB. WP:RS requires that sourcing been independent of the subject-matter, and this case, the membership of the political party that claims to be the successor to that led by Pollitt is clearly not independent of the subject. Even if it were independent of the subject matter, the publisher does not appear to be a well-established one with a reputation for fact-checking.
Additionally, the following statements based on this source are not supported by other sources. Particularly:
With respect, I can't make sense of this gibberish you wrote. Claiming that Pollitt no longer opposed fascism because he took a strategic decision during the Molotov-Ribbentrop paact (there's no such thing as the "Hitler-Stalin pact"), trying to argue that Pollitt no longer believed in independence for British colonies because he recognised Japanese fascism as a threat? I don't know how to argue with this Ben Shapiro type logic.
BulgeUwU (
talk) 03:48, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Also why are you deleting any reference to how Lenin influenced his political beliefs. ? BulgeUwU ( talk) 03:51, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Tothebarricades.tk and I have both reverted you on this BulgeUwU, could you please stop trying to edit-war hagiographic and un/badly-sourced content into the article, or at least explain why you're doing what you're doing here? To put it simply, an pamphlet written by Pollitt himself about Malaya is not in any meaningful sense a decent source for the statements you are trying to use it for (i.e., that Pollitt "smuggl[ed] funds to anti-fascist Germans to resist the Nazis and organis[ed] monetary support to Indian republicans" and was "a leading [voice] against both fascism and colonialism"). FOARP ( talk) 12:34, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: GhostRiver ( talk · contribs) 16:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I will be reviewing this! —
Ghost
River 16:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
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should only be included when the cause of death has significance for the subject's notability, e.g. murder or assassination
should be avoided when the country to which the subject belongs can be inferred from the country of birth. Since he was born in England and was an English politician, that he was of English nationality and British citizenship can be easily inferred.
very good reason, and the two smaller images especially need to be bumped back up to their normal thumbnail size
Putting on hold to allow nominator to address comments. Feel free to ping me with questions. — Ghost River 18:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I’m not sure if this is still a live issue, but since I was mentioned - I objected to the phrase “lifelong anti-fascist” for two reasons, one of which is more important as far as Wikipedia goes. Less importantly, I think supporting the pact with Hitler nullifies your claim to be a lifelong anti-fascist about as decisively as entering a hot dog eating contest disqualifies you from being a lifelong vegan. But that’s not really the issue. “X was a lifelong Y” is just not the kind of statement that should be in an encyclopedia, especially when the article itself calls this characterization into question. Tothebarricades ( talk) 05:24, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
All the sources I've looked at show that Albert Inkpin was directly succeeded by Pollitt as general secretary, however that's not what the infobox says (or said until I changed it). JR Campbell's article says nothing about him ever having led CPGB and I can't find anything saying he ever led it. Inkpin's article says he was succeeded by Pollitt. So where does the idea that JR Campbell was CPGB leader come from? It seems an odd mistake to have made. FOARP ( talk) 14:45, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
This quote is OK to use because:
In contrast we should not be relying on CPGB's publications, including those from Lawrence & Wishart (which CPGB owned), to support statements about Pollitt's acts as they are clearly not independent, and tend to be inaccurate (e.g., the SS Jolly George is typically described in these publications as being bound with armaments for the Whites, when it is very well documented that it was bound with arms for Poland, and they often hype Pollitt's role in blocking the shipment whilst ignoring e.g., Bevan's role). FOARP ( talk) 13:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Simply put, no, Harry Pollitt was not a "revolutionary". He did not lead any revolutions. Similarly, he never actual led a trade union (the National Minority Movement was not a trade union, but instead a very small grouping of different trade unionists within existing trades unions) so he was not prominent as a trade unionist and including this in the short description is undue. Finally, he was not prominent as a boilermaker so it is undue to include that in the short description. He was a politician so this is a viable short title, though I think simply "communist" might be equally good.
Per WP:SDEXAMPLES the short description for a person should be simply "[COUNTRY][WHAT THE PERSON IS KNOWN FOR]", and Harry Pollitt is known for being a British politician (or British communist). FOARP ( talk) 08:34, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Commenting here first so that I don't step on anyone's toes, but I feel this page would greatly benefit from a list of Pollitt's publications. He spent his entire life publishing political literature yet there is no works/publications section to list what Pollitt wrote. I have access to a copy of Dave Cope's Bibliography of the Communist Party of Great Britain and would like to begin listing all of Pollitt's works. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 11:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
"bound for monarchist White movement forces"- the Jolly George was not even bound for Russia, it was bound for Poland, and the weapons it was delivering were intended for the Republican Poles not the Russian Whites) so it is not justifiable to propose doing that again. The Lawrence & Wishart-published list could be re-constructed by googling to find citations - but this is basically a proposal to do original research to assemble the list. I assume the list would be something like the previous "Publications by Harry Pollitt" list, which was simply an exhaustive list of every single article/pamphlet Pollitt ever wrote, universally in publications that he controlled - that is, a list of what amounts to trivia/self-promotion. Where is the relevance here to the general reader?
![]() | Harry Pollitt has been listed as one of the
Social sciences and society good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: October 16, 2021. ( Reviewed version). |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Sadly, the cited version of the Ballad of Harry Pollitt is so poorly recollected that it does not scan and would be impossible to sing; it is also poorly punctuated. The actual words for the first three stanzas, as sung on numerous occasions, are:
Now, Harry was a Bolshie, and one of Lenin's lads, Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads, By reactionary cads, by reactionary cads, Till he was foully murdered by reactionary cads.
He came before St Peter, trembling at the knees: 'Oh, may I speak to comrade God, I'm Harry Pollitt, please? I'm Harry Pollitt, please; I'm Harry Pollitt, please; Oh, may I speak to comrade God, I'm Harry Pollitt, please?'
'Very well', said Peter, 'if you're humble and contrite And a friend of Lady Astor, then OK, you'll be alright; OK, you'll be alright; OK, you'll be alright; And a friend of Lady Astor, then OK, you'll be alright'.
Mountdrayton ( talk) 23:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
I've edited the article to be less of a hagiography than it previously was, and closer to a neutral position. Particularly:
The three citations of Monty Johnstone added by FOARP are incomplete in the JSTOR source: "1930–194". Spicemix ( talk) 20:09, 5 September 2021 (UTC)
I've deleted the information sourced only to the book "Red Lives" as it appears to have been written by members of the Communist Party of Britain's anniversary team as part of a centenary celebration. This source also attributes the authorship/publication of the book to CPB. WP:RS requires that sourcing been independent of the subject-matter, and this case, the membership of the political party that claims to be the successor to that led by Pollitt is clearly not independent of the subject. Even if it were independent of the subject matter, the publisher does not appear to be a well-established one with a reputation for fact-checking.
Additionally, the following statements based on this source are not supported by other sources. Particularly:
With respect, I can't make sense of this gibberish you wrote. Claiming that Pollitt no longer opposed fascism because he took a strategic decision during the Molotov-Ribbentrop paact (there's no such thing as the "Hitler-Stalin pact"), trying to argue that Pollitt no longer believed in independence for British colonies because he recognised Japanese fascism as a threat? I don't know how to argue with this Ben Shapiro type logic.
BulgeUwU (
talk) 03:48, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Also why are you deleting any reference to how Lenin influenced his political beliefs. ? BulgeUwU ( talk) 03:51, 25 September 2021 (UTC)
Tothebarricades.tk and I have both reverted you on this BulgeUwU, could you please stop trying to edit-war hagiographic and un/badly-sourced content into the article, or at least explain why you're doing what you're doing here? To put it simply, an pamphlet written by Pollitt himself about Malaya is not in any meaningful sense a decent source for the statements you are trying to use it for (i.e., that Pollitt "smuggl[ed] funds to anti-fascist Germans to resist the Nazis and organis[ed] monetary support to Indian republicans" and was "a leading [voice] against both fascism and colonialism"). FOARP ( talk) 12:34, 23 September 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: GhostRiver ( talk · contribs) 16:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I will be reviewing this! —
Ghost
River 16:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
should only be included when the cause of death has significance for the subject's notability, e.g. murder or assassination
should be avoided when the country to which the subject belongs can be inferred from the country of birth. Since he was born in England and was an English politician, that he was of English nationality and British citizenship can be easily inferred.
very good reason, and the two smaller images especially need to be bumped back up to their normal thumbnail size
Putting on hold to allow nominator to address comments. Feel free to ping me with questions. — Ghost River 18:55, 11 October 2021 (UTC)
I’m not sure if this is still a live issue, but since I was mentioned - I objected to the phrase “lifelong anti-fascist” for two reasons, one of which is more important as far as Wikipedia goes. Less importantly, I think supporting the pact with Hitler nullifies your claim to be a lifelong anti-fascist about as decisively as entering a hot dog eating contest disqualifies you from being a lifelong vegan. But that’s not really the issue. “X was a lifelong Y” is just not the kind of statement that should be in an encyclopedia, especially when the article itself calls this characterization into question. Tothebarricades ( talk) 05:24, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
All the sources I've looked at show that Albert Inkpin was directly succeeded by Pollitt as general secretary, however that's not what the infobox says (or said until I changed it). JR Campbell's article says nothing about him ever having led CPGB and I can't find anything saying he ever led it. Inkpin's article says he was succeeded by Pollitt. So where does the idea that JR Campbell was CPGB leader come from? It seems an odd mistake to have made. FOARP ( talk) 14:45, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
This quote is OK to use because:
In contrast we should not be relying on CPGB's publications, including those from Lawrence & Wishart (which CPGB owned), to support statements about Pollitt's acts as they are clearly not independent, and tend to be inaccurate (e.g., the SS Jolly George is typically described in these publications as being bound with armaments for the Whites, when it is very well documented that it was bound with arms for Poland, and they often hype Pollitt's role in blocking the shipment whilst ignoring e.g., Bevan's role). FOARP ( talk) 13:37, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
Simply put, no, Harry Pollitt was not a "revolutionary". He did not lead any revolutions. Similarly, he never actual led a trade union (the National Minority Movement was not a trade union, but instead a very small grouping of different trade unionists within existing trades unions) so he was not prominent as a trade unionist and including this in the short description is undue. Finally, he was not prominent as a boilermaker so it is undue to include that in the short description. He was a politician so this is a viable short title, though I think simply "communist" might be equally good.
Per WP:SDEXAMPLES the short description for a person should be simply "[COUNTRY][WHAT THE PERSON IS KNOWN FOR]", and Harry Pollitt is known for being a British politician (or British communist). FOARP ( talk) 08:34, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
Commenting here first so that I don't step on anyone's toes, but I feel this page would greatly benefit from a list of Pollitt's publications. He spent his entire life publishing political literature yet there is no works/publications section to list what Pollitt wrote. I have access to a copy of Dave Cope's Bibliography of the Communist Party of Great Britain and would like to begin listing all of Pollitt's works. The History Wizard of Cambridge ( talk) 11:06, 22 August 2023 (UTC)
"bound for monarchist White movement forces"- the Jolly George was not even bound for Russia, it was bound for Poland, and the weapons it was delivering were intended for the Republican Poles not the Russian Whites) so it is not justifiable to propose doing that again. The Lawrence & Wishart-published list could be re-constructed by googling to find citations - but this is basically a proposal to do original research to assemble the list. I assume the list would be something like the previous "Publications by Harry Pollitt" list, which was simply an exhaustive list of every single article/pamphlet Pollitt ever wrote, universally in publications that he controlled - that is, a list of what amounts to trivia/self-promotion. Where is the relevance here to the general reader?