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I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is but since I added the NPOV tag then I'm posting this thread here. This article was clearly crafted up to promote this person's campaign, and most of the material is clearly inappropriate for a Wikipedia article. This article should focus on Harry Braun the person, i.e. facts about him and what sources have said about him. His political views are of course relevant and important, but we can't use an encyclopedic biography to write in length about those views instead. Because that is not neutral. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 18:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Harry W Braun III:, you're adding completely irrelevant information right now. See WP:COATRACK: "A coatrack article is a Wikipedia article that ostensibly discusses its nominal subject, but has been edited to make a point about one or more tangential subjects. The nominal subject is treated as if it were an empty coat-rack, and is obscured by the "coats". The existence of a "hook" in a given article is not a good reason to "hang" irrelevant and biased material there."
This article is supposed to be a biography, but you actually removed what little biographical info this article had, and added an inordinate amount of irrelevant info, including an entire section for "Hydrogen History". At this point at least 85% of this article's content needs to go. If you think these things are important then you can write about them on your website. This is not the right place. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 21:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@ 75.108.94.227: @ Harry W Braun III: Is the following sentence, which 75.108 just added to the article, actually correct? Braun is organizing[citation needed] his 2016 campaign as a Constitutional Convention (see Article V of the U.S. Constitution), as a means of attempting to ratify his proposed Constitutional amendment. My understanding is that his Constitutional Convention campaign is an entirely separate initiative of his, aimed at changing the way America is governed - while his presidential campaign is being run under the existing electoral system. -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Yup, the FEC-registered folks get added to a list of names with their FEC-form-two-hyperlinks, when there is little press-coverage. Braun is also on our 2004 list, back when article-naming-conventions were different. Sometimes such candidates get one or two hits, as the BLP in question did in 2012, and then those refs are simply added after the name methinks (which I just did for Braun'04 and Braun'12). In cases like Jeff Boss'12 there was some in-depth coverage of the campaign, in which case the candidate in question is added to the table-section with a pic plus a few sentences. Braun'12 and maybe Braun'04 could conceivably be stuck in the other-candidates-table, now that the refs specific to those campaigns have been added. But yeah, even in order to get added to the table-portion, the candidate in question needs to have more than just the FEC link in question, and usually needs to be a bluelink. Braun'04 is borderline, for being added to any such other-candidate-table (as opposed to list), since the refs there are 'listicles' but Braun'12 prolly could be added to the other-candidates-table along with Boss and Moseler, since he had a couple dedicated-to-his-campaign press-pieces. That said, I'm unfamiliar with the nuances of wiki-tradition here.
Ping User:William S. Saturn, who seems to be maintaining the 2016-other-candidates-table in userspace, and also from seeing them around in the election-articles, likely knows something about the previous elections as well. William, can you fill us in on the other-candidate-table stuff? For instance, should there be dedicated redirects from Leah Lax to Democratic_Party_presidential_candidates,_2012#FEC-filed_candidates, since that candidate is not yet a bluelink, and is not otherwise mentioned in wikipedia? If so, what about candidates like Andy Caffrey IV who are redlinks, but have multiple possible redirect-targets, should we make a WP:DAB-page that mentions Andy Caffrey might be the judge from the early generations Andrew_Augustine_Caffrey but also might be Andy Caffrey IV, the more-recent candidate in CA'12 + CA'14 + USA'16?
The particular BLP of this article, Harry Braun, is in the list for 2004 (no table utilized that year at the moment), in the list (but not yet the table) for 2012, and in the table (but not yet with any independent refs) for 2016. Are these all the right location, for this BLP, to be sitting in at present? 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 22:50, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Are these four (offline) sources about Braun or his book? Do they mention him or his book? Or are they merely about the potential of hydrogen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ONUnicorn ( talk • contribs)
There is something puzzling about the reference format. References 5 through 14 do not appear in the text anywhere. Are they invisibilized, or what? -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
<ref name=2000book>some paper title<ref name=2000publisher>buncha details</ref></ref>
due to mediawiki limitation, so the "official" essay-trick for creating
footnotes-with-footnotes-of-their-own, is to use
Template:efn for the 2000book title-portion, and then keep using refs for the 2000publisher details-portion. I agree it is done awkwardly, and probably the exact bibliography-layout needs to be reconsidered, but I'd prefer to reconsider it after the AfD. :-) Thataway, if there is a bang-keep we can proceed on the basis of what exactly was bang-kept, and if not, then all this will be draftspaced at least temporarily. In any case, here is the selected-bibliography layout,
[7] and here is the diff where I quick-inserted the efn-stuff.
[8]
75.108.94.227 (
talk) 02:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)Hello 75.108, I have undone all of my changes. I do recall that you said not to make any edits, but given the links to the International Association for Hydrogen Energy and H2Pac did not work, I merely redirected the link from the IAHE that went nowhere, to the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy link that is active on Wikipedia. I noticed my Advisory Board status needed a citation, and since the only one I had was my letter of invitation from the IAHE president, T. Nejat Veziroglu back in 1981, I linked my "Advisory Board Member" reference to the IAHE website page that lists me along with the other Advisory Board Members. And rather than referring people to H2Pac, whose link does not work because the organization has evolved into the Democracy Amendment USA organization that was formalized in 2014, I was merely correcting the errors. I thought that such minor edits would be acceptable, and I now realize that they are not. Harry W Braun III ( talk) 03:22, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
So, to help Harry out a little, on how to make suggestions on talkpages, here is what he seems to be asking, Harry please correct me if I'm wrong, Suggestion#1:
References
Note the bluelink, which is actually pointing to International Journal of Hydrogen Energy aka IJHE, the main publication of the IAHE. Instead of linking to IJHE and printing IAHE, to me it would make more sense to create a redirect International Association for Hydrogen Energy that points to the IJHE article. Thataway, we can leave the Harry Braun article saying International Association for Hydrogen Energy, and if and when that IAHE article is created (whether as a redirect in 2015 or potentially as a fullfledged article in 2018 or whatever), no wikilinks will be accidentally broken.
The ref that Harry is suggesting we add is correct... although originally he goofed by adding it as a direct-hyperlink-from-body-prose rather than as a footnote... but because he is a long-term member of the IAHE, and because that organization is a redlink, do people here think we need something better than mutual-
WP:ABOUTSELF (Harry says he's a member and the IAHE website confirms he is a member), for the factoid to be in the
Harry Braun article? Is there a newspaper/teevee/magazine/radio/similar source, where the journalist has noted that Braun is in the IAHE, per
WP:NOTEWORTHY, in other words? If not, can we leave the sentence about IAHE, cited to the IAHE website, or is that too borderline-self-promotional? Also, note that we are kinda-already using the supplied ref in the article, name="iahe" for some other BLP details, so instead of adding a bare-ref we can just use {{efn | name="iahe"}}
for the moment, pending potential refTag-and-efn reorganization as discussed in talkpage sections above. Neither the board-members-page that Harry supplied, nor the bio-page that we've been using to fill in some gaps, actually specifies "1981" as the date the BLP joined the IAHE board, so for that final YYYY sentence-fragment
citation needed is still retained.
75.108.94.227 (
talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
On the external links question, what is the correct "official page" for this BLP article? I thought it would probably be http://www.phoenixprojectfoundation.us site as the project-slash-book most closely associated with the BLP's name from 1990 thru 2008+ , or possibly http://harrybraunshow.com , but not the http://democracyAmendmentUSA.net which is the PAC for the 2016 campaign, nor the soon-to-be-live http://BraunForPresident.US which is the official campaign committee for Braun'16, nor the http://www.braun2012.us site for the 2012 campaign. Is listing http://www.PhoenixProjectFoundation.us , as the "Official Page" under a newly-created External Links section, the correct approach? We don't have an EL section in the article yet. There doesn't seem to be http://www.HarryBraun.com that is applicable to the BLP at least. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
A contested sentence in the article says that there is (it formerly said "was") a political action committee associated with the Phoenix Project Foundation. I could find no evidence on the web that the PAC exists, except a report at whois that the domain name exists and is registered to Harry Braun. [10] It has no website, and the only online mention of it I could was a 2008 post on a 9/11 Truther blogsite. I'm wondering if we should delete that sentence, or what the status of the PAC is. User:Harry W Braun III, above you said that the PAC had morphed into the Democracy Amendment website; should we remove any mention of the PAC? Is Democracy Amendment a PAC? -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
(e/c again :-) Suggestion#2, again interpreting Harry's edits, please correct me if I'm wrong here:
References
teachable moment... explanation of why the "bad" version is wiki-bad
|
---|
In the course of his second suggestion, Harry made a beginner's mistake: he revised a sentence about some historical factoid, to reflect the current (and perfectly true) state of affairs, but in the process left the existing reference. So two bad things happened: one, sourced historical information was deleted, about the H2PAC. More importantly, new information was added... which happens to be true and currently correct... but which also happens NOT to be backed up by the citation, to which it mistakenly was left attached! Even though he self-reverted quickly, today when I look for "DemocracyAmendmentUSA" "2014" in the search engines, hit#3 is the promotional version of mainspace:
It's important to keep promotional material out of mainspace, because search engines don't crawl the web instantaneously. Every time something promotional gets inserted into mainspace, whether on purpose or by mistake, wikipedia's reputation suffers a wee little bit, until the search engine crawlers re-scan the article in question. |
Anyways, correct wiki-procedure is to leave the sourced historical information alone, and just insert a new sentence about the new state of affairs, with a *proper* WP:SOURCE for that new information properly attached. We cannot use http://DemocracyAmendmentUSA.net , as the " WP:SOURCE" to back up this new sentence, because as a 527 super-PAC which can expend unlimited funds on Braun'16, it would be too promotional for WP:ABOUTSELF to apply. People that want to donate to Braun'16 can follow the link to his main website, found in the external links section... well, once we have that section, they can, more on that in a moment. But it is definitely WP:THETRUTH that there is a new PAC.
Is it the truth that H2PAC, active circa 2003, is now shut down? Some potus campaigns in 2016 are running up to five superPAC vehicles simultaneously, by my rough counts. Was the switch from H2PAC merely a name-change of the existing PAC? When was H2PAC founded, and when was it shut down, if it has been shut down?
As for an independent source that mentions the new DAU superpac, http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/candidates.phtml has the complete listing, it is WP:BLOGS but might qualify as wiki-reliable. We could also go primary-source aka WP:PRIMARY, and get info about the new superpac from the FEC. But I don't think the WP:SOURCES have noted the new PAC name, as yet.
p.s. Ironically, the 'source' for the details of the H2PAC, currently in mainspace, is "incorrect" aka information-not-in-citation-given: over on the actual website, the PAC that is mentioned in the IAHE blurb-prose is called P3 aka http://PhoenixProjectPac.US aka Phoenix Project Political Action Committee. As with the binary relationship between H2PAC and DAU PAC, the triangular relationship between H2PAC and DAU PAC and P3 is unclear to me. Maybe the FEC website, or Harry himself, can clear up which PACs were operational during which years, and what campaigns (if any) they were affiliated with, and what nonprofit orgs (if any) they were affiliated with, and so on and so forth. Ping User:Harry_W_Braun_III, can you help us understand what is going on with your PACs, over the history of your efforts? Did you have any PACs back in the 1980s, I guess is the first question? And after that, which PACs did you have affiliated with yourself and/or your organizations, and over what timespans? Thanks. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
So, bottom line: It sounds like we should delete the reference to the PAC, and in fact not mention any PACs. I believe I was the one who inserted that sentence, based on the bio at the IAHE webpage. But that bio is seriously out of date, including listing the old name of his company and giving his residence as Arizona. So I'm thinking we should use it only for information that does not change, like where he went to school. I'm going to go ahead and remove the sentence. -- MelanieN ( talk) 03:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
User:JayJasper has switched the ordering of the first two "job titles" around, in the intro-paragraph. [11]
Along the way, added in a nationality, which is good, and split a long sentence in twain, which is also good. Personally, I do tend to agree that researcher-first politician-second is the truth of the matter, but we're supposed to reflect what the sources say, and although we have a handful of sources about his research, we have a significantly larger quantity of press-coverage about his political career. Can folks comment here on whether it is wiki-kosher to introduce the topic of Harry Braun as researcher comma political candidate, as opposed to political candidate comma researcher? Thanks. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 22:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Tweaked. The bluelinked-party was paren'd to keep it physically separate from the Americans-bluelink. The energy-consultant-bit was added per what the sources called him that I ran across [1] [2] [3] whilst editing Democratic Party presidential candidates, 2016#Other_candidates.
References
Current lede:
I've not integrated the 3 sources above into the article, the first is just a namedrop (Lester Brown again but being quoted by by other people), the 2002 and 1983 newspapers may have a bit more depth worth plumbing, but I've only skimmed them so YMMV. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 10:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Now that the article has been "kept", can somebody please put the references back into a normal/readable format? Or at least do so for the biographical information? MelanieN alt ( talk) 18:57, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
The article says that "as of August 2015 his formal campaign-announcement has not yet been made." Is that still true? If it is, we should change it to September 2015. If he has "formally announced", we might say something about it - at least if any Reliable Source has covered it. I'll ask about it on his talk page.
I see that his campaign website http://www.braunforpresident.us/ is now live. I think we would normally include that under "external links". (Google also finds a lot of his campaign material on the website of the Phoenix Project Foundation, which puzzles me since the Phoenix Project Foundation is a 501-c-3 nonprofit organization and is not supposed to engage in politics. I don't think we should link to any of that material.) -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
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help)I have not attempted to integrate these with the article. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 10:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
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![]() | The following Wikipedia contributor has declared a personal or professional connection to the subject of this article. Relevant policies and guidelines may include
conflict of interest,
autobiography, and
neutral point of view.
|
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on August 18, 2015. The result of the discussion was Keep. |
I think it's pretty obvious what the problem is but since I added the NPOV tag then I'm posting this thread here. This article was clearly crafted up to promote this person's campaign, and most of the material is clearly inappropriate for a Wikipedia article. This article should focus on Harry Braun the person, i.e. facts about him and what sources have said about him. His political views are of course relevant and important, but we can't use an encyclopedic biography to write in length about those views instead. Because that is not neutral. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 18:14, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@ Harry W Braun III:, you're adding completely irrelevant information right now. See WP:COATRACK: "A coatrack article is a Wikipedia article that ostensibly discusses its nominal subject, but has been edited to make a point about one or more tangential subjects. The nominal subject is treated as if it were an empty coat-rack, and is obscured by the "coats". The existence of a "hook" in a given article is not a good reason to "hang" irrelevant and biased material there."
This article is supposed to be a biography, but you actually removed what little biographical info this article had, and added an inordinate amount of irrelevant info, including an entire section for "Hydrogen History". At this point at least 85% of this article's content needs to go. If you think these things are important then you can write about them on your website. This is not the right place. — Jeraphine Gryphon ( talk) 21:05, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
@ 75.108.94.227: @ Harry W Braun III: Is the following sentence, which 75.108 just added to the article, actually correct? Braun is organizing[citation needed] his 2016 campaign as a Constitutional Convention (see Article V of the U.S. Constitution), as a means of attempting to ratify his proposed Constitutional amendment. My understanding is that his Constitutional Convention campaign is an entirely separate initiative of his, aimed at changing the way America is governed - while his presidential campaign is being run under the existing electoral system. -- MelanieN ( talk) 14:26, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
Yup, the FEC-registered folks get added to a list of names with their FEC-form-two-hyperlinks, when there is little press-coverage. Braun is also on our 2004 list, back when article-naming-conventions were different. Sometimes such candidates get one or two hits, as the BLP in question did in 2012, and then those refs are simply added after the name methinks (which I just did for Braun'04 and Braun'12). In cases like Jeff Boss'12 there was some in-depth coverage of the campaign, in which case the candidate in question is added to the table-section with a pic plus a few sentences. Braun'12 and maybe Braun'04 could conceivably be stuck in the other-candidates-table, now that the refs specific to those campaigns have been added. But yeah, even in order to get added to the table-portion, the candidate in question needs to have more than just the FEC link in question, and usually needs to be a bluelink. Braun'04 is borderline, for being added to any such other-candidate-table (as opposed to list), since the refs there are 'listicles' but Braun'12 prolly could be added to the other-candidates-table along with Boss and Moseler, since he had a couple dedicated-to-his-campaign press-pieces. That said, I'm unfamiliar with the nuances of wiki-tradition here.
Ping User:William S. Saturn, who seems to be maintaining the 2016-other-candidates-table in userspace, and also from seeing them around in the election-articles, likely knows something about the previous elections as well. William, can you fill us in on the other-candidate-table stuff? For instance, should there be dedicated redirects from Leah Lax to Democratic_Party_presidential_candidates,_2012#FEC-filed_candidates, since that candidate is not yet a bluelink, and is not otherwise mentioned in wikipedia? If so, what about candidates like Andy Caffrey IV who are redlinks, but have multiple possible redirect-targets, should we make a WP:DAB-page that mentions Andy Caffrey might be the judge from the early generations Andrew_Augustine_Caffrey but also might be Andy Caffrey IV, the more-recent candidate in CA'12 + CA'14 + USA'16?
The particular BLP of this article, Harry Braun, is in the list for 2004 (no table utilized that year at the moment), in the list (but not yet the table) for 2012, and in the table (but not yet with any independent refs) for 2016. Are these all the right location, for this BLP, to be sitting in at present? 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 22:50, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Are these four (offline) sources about Braun or his book? Do they mention him or his book? Or are they merely about the potential of hydrogen? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ONUnicorn ( talk • contribs)
There is something puzzling about the reference format. References 5 through 14 do not appear in the text anywhere. Are they invisibilized, or what? -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:44, 26 August 2015 (UTC)
<ref name=2000book>some paper title<ref name=2000publisher>buncha details</ref></ref>
due to mediawiki limitation, so the "official" essay-trick for creating
footnotes-with-footnotes-of-their-own, is to use
Template:efn for the 2000book title-portion, and then keep using refs for the 2000publisher details-portion. I agree it is done awkwardly, and probably the exact bibliography-layout needs to be reconsidered, but I'd prefer to reconsider it after the AfD. :-) Thataway, if there is a bang-keep we can proceed on the basis of what exactly was bang-kept, and if not, then all this will be draftspaced at least temporarily. In any case, here is the selected-bibliography layout,
[7] and here is the diff where I quick-inserted the efn-stuff.
[8]
75.108.94.227 (
talk) 02:13, 27 August 2015 (UTC)Hello 75.108, I have undone all of my changes. I do recall that you said not to make any edits, but given the links to the International Association for Hydrogen Energy and H2Pac did not work, I merely redirected the link from the IAHE that went nowhere, to the International Journal of Hydrogen Energy link that is active on Wikipedia. I noticed my Advisory Board status needed a citation, and since the only one I had was my letter of invitation from the IAHE president, T. Nejat Veziroglu back in 1981, I linked my "Advisory Board Member" reference to the IAHE website page that lists me along with the other Advisory Board Members. And rather than referring people to H2Pac, whose link does not work because the organization has evolved into the Democracy Amendment USA organization that was formalized in 2014, I was merely correcting the errors. I thought that such minor edits would be acceptable, and I now realize that they are not. Harry W Braun III ( talk) 03:22, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
So, to help Harry out a little, on how to make suggestions on talkpages, here is what he seems to be asking, Harry please correct me if I'm wrong, Suggestion#1:
References
Note the bluelink, which is actually pointing to International Journal of Hydrogen Energy aka IJHE, the main publication of the IAHE. Instead of linking to IJHE and printing IAHE, to me it would make more sense to create a redirect International Association for Hydrogen Energy that points to the IJHE article. Thataway, we can leave the Harry Braun article saying International Association for Hydrogen Energy, and if and when that IAHE article is created (whether as a redirect in 2015 or potentially as a fullfledged article in 2018 or whatever), no wikilinks will be accidentally broken.
The ref that Harry is suggesting we add is correct... although originally he goofed by adding it as a direct-hyperlink-from-body-prose rather than as a footnote... but because he is a long-term member of the IAHE, and because that organization is a redlink, do people here think we need something better than mutual-
WP:ABOUTSELF (Harry says he's a member and the IAHE website confirms he is a member), for the factoid to be in the
Harry Braun article? Is there a newspaper/teevee/magazine/radio/similar source, where the journalist has noted that Braun is in the IAHE, per
WP:NOTEWORTHY, in other words? If not, can we leave the sentence about IAHE, cited to the IAHE website, or is that too borderline-self-promotional? Also, note that we are kinda-already using the supplied ref in the article, name="iahe" for some other BLP details, so instead of adding a bare-ref we can just use {{efn | name="iahe"}}
for the moment, pending potential refTag-and-efn reorganization as discussed in talkpage sections above. Neither the board-members-page that Harry supplied, nor the bio-page that we've been using to fill in some gaps, actually specifies "1981" as the date the BLP joined the IAHE board, so for that final YYYY sentence-fragment
citation needed is still retained.
75.108.94.227 (
talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
On the external links question, what is the correct "official page" for this BLP article? I thought it would probably be http://www.phoenixprojectfoundation.us site as the project-slash-book most closely associated with the BLP's name from 1990 thru 2008+ , or possibly http://harrybraunshow.com , but not the http://democracyAmendmentUSA.net which is the PAC for the 2016 campaign, nor the soon-to-be-live http://BraunForPresident.US which is the official campaign committee for Braun'16, nor the http://www.braun2012.us site for the 2012 campaign. Is listing http://www.PhoenixProjectFoundation.us , as the "Official Page" under a newly-created External Links section, the correct approach? We don't have an EL section in the article yet. There doesn't seem to be http://www.HarryBraun.com that is applicable to the BLP at least. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
A contested sentence in the article says that there is (it formerly said "was") a political action committee associated with the Phoenix Project Foundation. I could find no evidence on the web that the PAC exists, except a report at whois that the domain name exists and is registered to Harry Braun. [10] It has no website, and the only online mention of it I could was a 2008 post on a 9/11 Truther blogsite. I'm wondering if we should delete that sentence, or what the status of the PAC is. User:Harry W Braun III, above you said that the PAC had morphed into the Democracy Amendment website; should we remove any mention of the PAC? Is Democracy Amendment a PAC? -- MelanieN ( talk) 18:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
(e/c again :-) Suggestion#2, again interpreting Harry's edits, please correct me if I'm wrong here:
References
teachable moment... explanation of why the "bad" version is wiki-bad
|
---|
In the course of his second suggestion, Harry made a beginner's mistake: he revised a sentence about some historical factoid, to reflect the current (and perfectly true) state of affairs, but in the process left the existing reference. So two bad things happened: one, sourced historical information was deleted, about the H2PAC. More importantly, new information was added... which happens to be true and currently correct... but which also happens NOT to be backed up by the citation, to which it mistakenly was left attached! Even though he self-reverted quickly, today when I look for "DemocracyAmendmentUSA" "2014" in the search engines, hit#3 is the promotional version of mainspace:
It's important to keep promotional material out of mainspace, because search engines don't crawl the web instantaneously. Every time something promotional gets inserted into mainspace, whether on purpose or by mistake, wikipedia's reputation suffers a wee little bit, until the search engine crawlers re-scan the article in question. |
Anyways, correct wiki-procedure is to leave the sourced historical information alone, and just insert a new sentence about the new state of affairs, with a *proper* WP:SOURCE for that new information properly attached. We cannot use http://DemocracyAmendmentUSA.net , as the " WP:SOURCE" to back up this new sentence, because as a 527 super-PAC which can expend unlimited funds on Braun'16, it would be too promotional for WP:ABOUTSELF to apply. People that want to donate to Braun'16 can follow the link to his main website, found in the external links section... well, once we have that section, they can, more on that in a moment. But it is definitely WP:THETRUTH that there is a new PAC.
Is it the truth that H2PAC, active circa 2003, is now shut down? Some potus campaigns in 2016 are running up to five superPAC vehicles simultaneously, by my rough counts. Was the switch from H2PAC merely a name-change of the existing PAC? When was H2PAC founded, and when was it shut down, if it has been shut down?
As for an independent source that mentions the new DAU superpac, http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/candidates.phtml has the complete listing, it is WP:BLOGS but might qualify as wiki-reliable. We could also go primary-source aka WP:PRIMARY, and get info about the new superpac from the FEC. But I don't think the WP:SOURCES have noted the new PAC name, as yet.
p.s. Ironically, the 'source' for the details of the H2PAC, currently in mainspace, is "incorrect" aka information-not-in-citation-given: over on the actual website, the PAC that is mentioned in the IAHE blurb-prose is called P3 aka http://PhoenixProjectPac.US aka Phoenix Project Political Action Committee. As with the binary relationship between H2PAC and DAU PAC, the triangular relationship between H2PAC and DAU PAC and P3 is unclear to me. Maybe the FEC website, or Harry himself, can clear up which PACs were operational during which years, and what campaigns (if any) they were affiliated with, and what nonprofit orgs (if any) they were affiliated with, and so on and so forth. Ping User:Harry_W_Braun_III, can you help us understand what is going on with your PACs, over the history of your efforts? Did you have any PACs back in the 1980s, I guess is the first question? And after that, which PACs did you have affiliated with yourself and/or your organizations, and over what timespans? Thanks. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 20:18, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
So, bottom line: It sounds like we should delete the reference to the PAC, and in fact not mention any PACs. I believe I was the one who inserted that sentence, based on the bio at the IAHE webpage. But that bio is seriously out of date, including listing the old name of his company and giving his residence as Arizona. So I'm thinking we should use it only for information that does not change, like where he went to school. I'm going to go ahead and remove the sentence. -- MelanieN ( talk) 03:27, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
User:JayJasper has switched the ordering of the first two "job titles" around, in the intro-paragraph. [11]
Along the way, added in a nationality, which is good, and split a long sentence in twain, which is also good. Personally, I do tend to agree that researcher-first politician-second is the truth of the matter, but we're supposed to reflect what the sources say, and although we have a handful of sources about his research, we have a significantly larger quantity of press-coverage about his political career. Can folks comment here on whether it is wiki-kosher to introduce the topic of Harry Braun as researcher comma political candidate, as opposed to political candidate comma researcher? Thanks. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 22:21, 28 August 2015 (UTC)
Tweaked. The bluelinked-party was paren'd to keep it physically separate from the Americans-bluelink. The energy-consultant-bit was added per what the sources called him that I ran across [1] [2] [3] whilst editing Democratic Party presidential candidates, 2016#Other_candidates.
References
Current lede:
I've not integrated the 3 sources above into the article, the first is just a namedrop (Lester Brown again but being quoted by by other people), the 2002 and 1983 newspapers may have a bit more depth worth plumbing, but I've only skimmed them so YMMV. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 10:22, 7 September 2015 (UTC)
Now that the article has been "kept", can somebody please put the references back into a normal/readable format? Or at least do so for the biographical information? MelanieN alt ( talk) 18:57, 4 September 2015 (UTC)
The article says that "as of August 2015 his formal campaign-announcement has not yet been made." Is that still true? If it is, we should change it to September 2015. If he has "formally announced", we might say something about it - at least if any Reliable Source has covered it. I'll ask about it on his talk page.
I see that his campaign website http://www.braunforpresident.us/ is now live. I think we would normally include that under "external links". (Google also finds a lot of his campaign material on the website of the Phoenix Project Foundation, which puzzles me since the Phoenix Project Foundation is a 501-c-3 nonprofit organization and is not supposed to engage in politics. I don't think we should link to any of that material.) -- MelanieN ( talk) 19:23, 18 September 2015 (UTC)
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help)...Harry Braun... is @ the Occupy Wall St protest in NYC...
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help)I have not attempted to integrate these with the article. 75.108.94.227 ( talk) 10:52, 25 September 2015 (UTC)