![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The phrase "he descended into Hell" was interpolated into the so-called "Apostles' Creed, the old Roman creed mentioned by Tertullian. Look at the three early versions quoted at the Catholic Encyclopedia website: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm Someone with more interest than I might sketch the late invention of this "Harrowing of Hell' and its medieval flowering. It is part of Christian mythology, not of Scripture, save the author of Peter saying that Christ preached to them that were dead. (1 Peter 4:6), a solipsistic divagation unsupported by any similar concept anywhere else in the New Testament. Wetman 05:53, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
it disturbs the conscience of some believers to imagine that when he died, Jesus went to Hell Is "conscience" really meant here? Why does this disturb the Christian conscience? Wetman 21:08, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Quick question: how is the doctrine of the harrowing of hell reconciled with Jesus' statement "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:41)?
This isn't a difficult question ... At first it might appear so, but in fact, when put logically, it works out quite easily. Christ descended into Hell, right? (If the Harrowing of Hell is true; I personally am not sure whether or not I believe in it; many at my church do, but it is far from Baptist "dogma.") Well, remembering the words of the psalmist in Psalm 139, God is not merely in Heaeven, but also in Sheol--in the Grave. He is, after all, omnipresent. Now, since Jesus is God (I am fully convicted of this), He too must be omnipresent; therefore, He can be both in Heaven as the Father with Dismas, while simultaneously in the depths of Hell as the Son with Adam, Eve, etc.
Though I hate the division denominalization causes, I attend a Baptist (Protestant) church. I am very fond of the Baptist branch of theology as well as its open-mindedness. One of the people in my youth ministry believes in the Harrowing of Hell; and in a very interesting conversation with my future high school minister, he revealed that he, too, gave the HoH much plausibility, though both arguments have their strengths and weaknesses. Because beliefs of this sort are quite commonplace within many Protestant churches, isn't it only right for them to be represented ... well, by more than just a short paragraph implying ALL Protestant groups view the HoH as "figurative"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.18.157.239 ( talk) 20:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
The excellent image is from a 14th century illuminated manuscript. Without a caption it's just a pretty postage stamp. I feel that the source of an image is part of the information it conveys. How about the implied contrast to the City of God in this image? Would it spoil the look to give it a caption? -- Wetman 11:12, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
I found a Greek Orthodox icon depicting the Harrowing of Hell, but perhaps someone cqan scale it down for use in the article? -> -- BirgerLangkjer 13:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be some mention of Dante's Divine Comedy? Isn't the first part basically about the Harrowing of Hell? Or am I completely off-track here? The Disco King 17:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me what translation the passage from Psalm 68:18-19 is taken? The NSRV is referenced with some of the other scripture passages, but this passage doesn't adhere to any translation I compared it with--and it seems to be saying something a bit different than the others. GnatsFriend 23:23, 06 March 2006
Should there be some mention of those religious scholars who tie in the myth of Orpheus to that of the Harrowing of Hell? -- ScienceApologist 07:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
The Greek in this article needs diacritics! - ∅ ( ∅), 11:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Additionally, I am skeptical about the necessity of so much Greek text in this article. I love Greek as much as anybody, but this is an English-language encyclopedia, and Greek should be quoted only when the issue at hand depends on the specific phrasing of the original text -- which is certainly true for certain parts of this article and less true for others. The article on The Myth of Sisyphus doesn't have long passages in French; English translations are sufficient to convey the relevant meaning. Huge blocks of Greek aren't going to mean very much to many people. - leigh (φθόγγος) 01:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The following is doubletalk: "By insisting that "every place" would have to include Hell, a parallel is affirmed." No "parallel" is discoverable, let alone "affirmed". The following was previously suppressed: "Yet no scholiast has affirmed that Christ preached at the bottom of the sea, thus the extension of "every place" is selective." The simple logic that the assertion "every place" incudes Hell is a selective application needs to be addressed. This article needs a neutral and logical analysis of this equivocation, and especially needs to pinpoint the origin of the Patristic assertion that "every place" would have to include Hell—though not the bottom of the sea, which is equally unreachable to any critical reader who pauses over ths assertion. This slender connection is an important thread in the history of this idea. Could it be discussed outside an RC viewpoint, without disallowing the RC view, nts, but identifying it as such? -- Wetman 21:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Quotes from the hymns and the approximate dates of their composition would give this reference more substance in the context of the history of the idea. -- Wetman 21:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed a number of {{fact}} tags that had been added to the headings in this article. These had been apparently added in Feb. 2007. Wherever they belong, they do not belong on the headings. There wasn't really anything that I saw in the edit history that indicated what further referencing might be sought by them, and no contemporary discussion here, either. These requests belong in text, not in the headings of the paragraphs, by my understanding. - Smerdis of Tlön 18:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article as only indirectly relevant and also unsourced. I place it here to enable discussion on the possible return to the article of some or all of it, with appropriate citations.
According to the topology of the Underworld developed by Catholic thinkers in the middle ages, Sheol consists of different areas, or levels:
Early church father Ambrose believed that if Christ could not have suffered in Hell, then Christ could not have suffered on the Cross. For St. John Chrysostom, the harrowing of Hell was a paradox that was an essential part of the Christian mystery of faith: "Hell took a body, and discovered God; it took earth, and encountered Heaven. It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see" (from John Chrysostom's Paschal homily). Much later, St. Thomas Aquinas explained the doctrine, saying that "when Christ descended into hell, by the power of his Passion he delivered the saints from this penalty whereby they were excluded from the life of glory...."
There is an ancient homily on the subject, of unknown authorship, usually entitled The Lord's Descent into Hell that is the second reading at Matins on Holy Saturday in the Roman Catholic Church.
The Catholic theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, in his innovative book Mysterium Paschale (especially pp. 148-188 in 1990 English edition), explores the theological meaning of Holy Saturday, where the Son Jesus Christ dies and descends to the dead, to be resurrected by God the Father, thus revealing that God can endure and conquer godlessness, abandonment, and death. God, in Jesus Christ, goes as far from God as one can go (Hell), and still is God, the Son Himself—even there—living utterly for the Father. Lima 20:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
References
The first part of Pistis Sophia describes Christ's activities in the underworld extensively. I think it should be mentioned. - tSR - Nth Man ( talk) 06:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
This statement appears to be false. Acts 2 has many references to Jesus descending into and being in the realm of the dead / Hell (depending on translation), ex. Acts 2:31 "... he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead" NIV ( Stan Burton) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:31B8:F550:0:0:0:45 ( talk) 12:54, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Harrowing of Hell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:24, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Is there any other mention of Adam and Eve being damned in Hell? Couldn't find a reference to their abode after dying on Earth. Desdinova ( talk) 01:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
"Harrowing" has been defined as "acutely distressing." But here's something the article does not explain. In the phrase "harrowing of hell," exactly who or what was harrowed? The two possibilities are
- 2601:281:D47F:B960:D468:CFF1:8B76:7195 ( talk) 18:24, 2 January 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The phrase "he descended into Hell" was interpolated into the so-called "Apostles' Creed, the old Roman creed mentioned by Tertullian. Look at the three early versions quoted at the Catholic Encyclopedia website: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01629a.htm Someone with more interest than I might sketch the late invention of this "Harrowing of Hell' and its medieval flowering. It is part of Christian mythology, not of Scripture, save the author of Peter saying that Christ preached to them that were dead. (1 Peter 4:6), a solipsistic divagation unsupported by any similar concept anywhere else in the New Testament. Wetman 05:53, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
it disturbs the conscience of some believers to imagine that when he died, Jesus went to Hell Is "conscience" really meant here? Why does this disturb the Christian conscience? Wetman 21:08, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Quick question: how is the doctrine of the harrowing of hell reconciled with Jesus' statement "Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise." (Luke 23:41)?
This isn't a difficult question ... At first it might appear so, but in fact, when put logically, it works out quite easily. Christ descended into Hell, right? (If the Harrowing of Hell is true; I personally am not sure whether or not I believe in it; many at my church do, but it is far from Baptist "dogma.") Well, remembering the words of the psalmist in Psalm 139, God is not merely in Heaeven, but also in Sheol--in the Grave. He is, after all, omnipresent. Now, since Jesus is God (I am fully convicted of this), He too must be omnipresent; therefore, He can be both in Heaven as the Father with Dismas, while simultaneously in the depths of Hell as the Son with Adam, Eve, etc.
Though I hate the division denominalization causes, I attend a Baptist (Protestant) church. I am very fond of the Baptist branch of theology as well as its open-mindedness. One of the people in my youth ministry believes in the Harrowing of Hell; and in a very interesting conversation with my future high school minister, he revealed that he, too, gave the HoH much plausibility, though both arguments have their strengths and weaknesses. Because beliefs of this sort are quite commonplace within many Protestant churches, isn't it only right for them to be represented ... well, by more than just a short paragraph implying ALL Protestant groups view the HoH as "figurative"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.18.157.239 ( talk) 20:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC).
The excellent image is from a 14th century illuminated manuscript. Without a caption it's just a pretty postage stamp. I feel that the source of an image is part of the information it conveys. How about the implied contrast to the City of God in this image? Would it spoil the look to give it a caption? -- Wetman 11:12, 1 May 2005 (UTC)
I found a Greek Orthodox icon depicting the Harrowing of Hell, but perhaps someone cqan scale it down for use in the article? -> -- BirgerLangkjer 13:20, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be some mention of Dante's Divine Comedy? Isn't the first part basically about the Harrowing of Hell? Or am I completely off-track here? The Disco King 17:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone tell me what translation the passage from Psalm 68:18-19 is taken? The NSRV is referenced with some of the other scripture passages, but this passage doesn't adhere to any translation I compared it with--and it seems to be saying something a bit different than the others. GnatsFriend 23:23, 06 March 2006
Should there be some mention of those religious scholars who tie in the myth of Orpheus to that of the Harrowing of Hell? -- ScienceApologist 07:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
The Greek in this article needs diacritics! - ∅ ( ∅), 11:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Additionally, I am skeptical about the necessity of so much Greek text in this article. I love Greek as much as anybody, but this is an English-language encyclopedia, and Greek should be quoted only when the issue at hand depends on the specific phrasing of the original text -- which is certainly true for certain parts of this article and less true for others. The article on The Myth of Sisyphus doesn't have long passages in French; English translations are sufficient to convey the relevant meaning. Huge blocks of Greek aren't going to mean very much to many people. - leigh (φθόγγος) 01:56, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
The following is doubletalk: "By insisting that "every place" would have to include Hell, a parallel is affirmed." No "parallel" is discoverable, let alone "affirmed". The following was previously suppressed: "Yet no scholiast has affirmed that Christ preached at the bottom of the sea, thus the extension of "every place" is selective." The simple logic that the assertion "every place" incudes Hell is a selective application needs to be addressed. This article needs a neutral and logical analysis of this equivocation, and especially needs to pinpoint the origin of the Patristic assertion that "every place" would have to include Hell—though not the bottom of the sea, which is equally unreachable to any critical reader who pauses over ths assertion. This slender connection is an important thread in the history of this idea. Could it be discussed outside an RC viewpoint, without disallowing the RC view, nts, but identifying it as such? -- Wetman 21:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Quotes from the hymns and the approximate dates of their composition would give this reference more substance in the context of the history of the idea. -- Wetman 21:51, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I removed a number of {{fact}} tags that had been added to the headings in this article. These had been apparently added in Feb. 2007. Wherever they belong, they do not belong on the headings. There wasn't really anything that I saw in the edit history that indicated what further referencing might be sought by them, and no contemporary discussion here, either. These requests belong in text, not in the headings of the paragraphs, by my understanding. - Smerdis of Tlön 18:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article as only indirectly relevant and also unsourced. I place it here to enable discussion on the possible return to the article of some or all of it, with appropriate citations.
According to the topology of the Underworld developed by Catholic thinkers in the middle ages, Sheol consists of different areas, or levels:
Early church father Ambrose believed that if Christ could not have suffered in Hell, then Christ could not have suffered on the Cross. For St. John Chrysostom, the harrowing of Hell was a paradox that was an essential part of the Christian mystery of faith: "Hell took a body, and discovered God; it took earth, and encountered Heaven. It took what it saw, and was overcome by what it did not see" (from John Chrysostom's Paschal homily). Much later, St. Thomas Aquinas explained the doctrine, saying that "when Christ descended into hell, by the power of his Passion he delivered the saints from this penalty whereby they were excluded from the life of glory...."
There is an ancient homily on the subject, of unknown authorship, usually entitled The Lord's Descent into Hell that is the second reading at Matins on Holy Saturday in the Roman Catholic Church.
The Catholic theologian Hans Urs von Balthasar, in his innovative book Mysterium Paschale (especially pp. 148-188 in 1990 English edition), explores the theological meaning of Holy Saturday, where the Son Jesus Christ dies and descends to the dead, to be resurrected by God the Father, thus revealing that God can endure and conquer godlessness, abandonment, and death. God, in Jesus Christ, goes as far from God as one can go (Hell), and still is God, the Son Himself—even there—living utterly for the Father. Lima 20:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)
References
The first part of Pistis Sophia describes Christ's activities in the underworld extensively. I think it should be mentioned. - tSR - Nth Man ( talk) 06:15, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
This statement appears to be false. Acts 2 has many references to Jesus descending into and being in the realm of the dead / Hell (depending on translation), ex. Acts 2:31 "... he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead" NIV ( Stan Burton) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:31B8:F550:0:0:0:45 ( talk) 12:54, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Harrowing of Hell. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:24, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
Is there any other mention of Adam and Eve being damned in Hell? Couldn't find a reference to their abode after dying on Earth. Desdinova ( talk) 01:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
"Harrowing" has been defined as "acutely distressing." But here's something the article does not explain. In the phrase "harrowing of hell," exactly who or what was harrowed? The two possibilities are
- 2601:281:D47F:B960:D468:CFF1:8B76:7195 ( talk) 18:24, 2 January 2022 (UTC)