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The tree from which the gum was derived is called stobrum by Pliny, not to be confused by strobum, a variety of pine, which is of North American origin.
Sources such as Josephus or Jasher or Genesis have their own sources unveiled by the relations between them. Thus there are reasons not just heresay why one source says built when Peleg was 50 and others say built when Reu was 50. The two men (father and son) are 30 years apart (Peleg 2269bc, Reu 2239bc producing age 50 as 2219bc and 2189bc). In the case od 2219bc (if as evidence indicates Haran died in year 340 and was reborn into heaven to be with Peleg), this year 50 of Peleg in Masoretic Genesis is Peleg's death at age 239 in year 740 of Greek Genesis. Likewise, if Haran was born when Terah was 70 in Masoretic year 292, his death in year 341 would be Haran's 50th year, not Peleg, not Reu. The 79 of grandpa Nahor (his 29+50) not only makes use of this same year 50 in this WikiPedia article, but can be sourced to claiming grandson Nahor as first born (Nahor's 79 for Terah and 70 for Nahor born when Haran died at 50, and 10 years before Abram born in Haran's 60. Reverse it all in text language ordinal semantics and you have the claim Haran died when Abram was 50 (Jasher) and Haran died when Abram was 60 (Jubilees). The whole world is about reversing truth to create lies. And literally mathematical reversals are in every chronology if you seek to see them. BUT some type of spirit in people is refusing to look for this backbone math. There is so much obvious backbone math, that i am bitterly drowning in it. These dead ancient historians would have to come back to life to ask you why you can't see theit backbone math structure. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:38, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Some scholars identify the Biblical Haran with Harran. Some sentences like this one certainly need to be verified. What kind of scholars? Do they mean that the Biblical Harran was inspired by Harran? And so on. Phizq ( talk) 15:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
(The answer to that question is mathematical and i know WikiPedia considers math 2+3=5 as original research since they expect a source quoted on who says 2+3=5. But here goes the answer. Nimrod's city, his Jeru or Ur is confused between being Ur and Babel and Nineveh. But the 780-day calendar of Mars indicates it went from Ur to Babel to Nineveh to Harran. The book of Jasher would then be correct that Nimrod took in Haran who apparently made the first step by going from Ur to Babel to start Marduk Temple which is claimed by Eusebius as 52-years old when Abram is 9. Apparently the temple was started in 2060bc and Nineveh started in 2058bc. However, the birth of the man is confused with the birth of the city so all though dates match as if Haran was 29 when founding the city in 2049bc, the 13-year Mars is used in 39-year increments to debate Haran or his father born in 2088bc, and if Haran, then his father 39 before that in 2126bc as 360-day calendar. This is derived from Ussher and Jasher's Terah, and from Jasher splitting the 70-year Terah into 39+32 where 71 of 360-day is only 70 years when he says Haran was 32 when Abram born. It is the city that was 32, not the man who built it. This is the source of why Moses skips the issue and says okay 70 and all were born, NEXT.) 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 16:48, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
For example, the section on "Harran in Scripture" needs work. That first sentence about Adam and Eve? No Biblical sources for it exist; both the Tanakh and the New Testament are silent on that. First mention of the place is in the story of Abraham. How do we know Adam and Eve were there? Is this from the Talmud? The Kaballa? Josephus' collected legends? What? Citation definitely needed there. < Jerodian> ( **Hailing frequencies open.**) 12:12, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Phizq, believe it or not, there's a user who claims that Haran and Harran are always identified together. Could be true; or not. It's a big claim that should certainly be sourced. SamEV ( talk) 06:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
word.) All you have to do is find ONE theory placing Abraham's Haran elsewhere. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 11:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC) (N
This article needs a map showing Harran's actual location. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthonyhcole ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Tamara M. Green,The city of the Moon god: religious traditions of Harran, 1992, pg. 19, Chptr1, Line 10, clearly states without doubt that Harran was founded by Ur as a merchant outpost around the 19th century.
If there is some doubts about this statement, please provide sources and references.
Thanks, Jasonasosa ( talk) 19:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Harran was built to entrap the city of Kish (on the Tigris) between Ur to the south and Harran to the north. Trade such as highland olive oil came down the Tigris river to Kish where the crossover to the Euphrates was narrow and the outpost of Kish was the Babel tower. However, by building Harran to the north it blocked the westward route from Nineveh to Canaan, as well as being close enough on a tributary to the Euprates to keep an eye on northward Euphrates river traffic. When 1st dynasty Ur fell (2029bc) the city Mari was put right on the river to guarantee what Harran could not in trade-flow to Canaan. (It requires longevity to understand that Ibbi-Sin of 2029bc who set up Ishbi-Erra of 2017bc did not end 3rd dynasty Ur in 2029bc but rather became king of 3rd dynasty from 1925-1901bc.) Either way, Ur fell in 2029bc, whether 1st dynasty (Genesis) or 3rd dynasty (traditional), causing foundation of Mari. The sequence of extending a Marduk (Mars) calendar is what proves it. As Mars wanders from the average 780-day TAU, it requires observation earlier before set, and later after rise. Asian increments prove this to be first 60 days, then 120 days. Mayans make it 130 days. Using astronomy Mars and Jupiter cycle the new years of 360-day. Jupiter though 83 Julian years for 7 orbits will retain its 12-year as 360-day (12-24-36-48-60-72-84), and Mars varies but is the best constant for 360-day new year (6 orbits of 780-day). With this in mind the Marduk or as Zecaria Sitchin translates as The Son of The Temple Mountain Pyramid meets as 12-year Jupiter and 13-year Mars in 156 years = 154 Julian. This math is found in all ancient original timelines (Greek, Egypt, Moslem, Hindu, Chinese, Mayan). Modern scholars refuse to see the astronomy. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I see the source given for the information in the section "Harran's mythology" is a book entitled The Chronology of Genesis: A Complete History of the Nefilim (2003). I haven't looked this one up yet, or checked to see how reliable it is. But, would you be able to tell what the primary source is for these alleged "myths"? If they are indeed recorded myths, they would seem to confuse the reigns of actual rulers who lived centuries apart, such as Ur-Nammu of Ur-III and Ishbi-Erra of Isin. There were a few rulers of Ur with names like Nannar, but I'm not certain what historical ruler would be meant by "King Marduk". It would also be quite impressive if it could be shown there existed an archaeological tablet as a primary source mentioning Abraham in connection with any of this. However, the absence of what would presumably be ground-breaking news on that in scholarship, makes that entire "Nefilim" source seem a little suspect. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 04:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
This is a POV fork you aretrying to make, because every source I have ever seen is of the POV that Haran = Harran and I don;t know where you are getting any other from. I have yet to see a source placing it anywhere else. Where else has any source ever placed it? -- Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 06:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Since this article is not necessarily about a Biblical place (for one, regardless of whether or not Harran=Haran, most of the info is certainly non-Biblical in origin), it seems more sensible to avoid the BC/AD style in favor of BCE/CE. Any dissenters? SamEV ( talk) 03:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
I dissent too. The error is ordinal in nature where 1AD is not first year but 1 year, and today's 2016 is not the 2016th but 2016 years. The BC system did this. Proof is in the math where 532AD was created as 28 of 19 year moon, and 19 of 28 years of weeks. Neither 19-year moon nor 28-year week cycle can be forced to be a 532nd year, it is 532 years and thus from the error of 1BC. Thus 2bc= 1 BAD, and 1bc = AD (no need to say zero) and 1AD is retained as 1 year not 1st year AD. Common Era is not Common to Islam nor China. And CE if common Era has been read as Christian Era which is the same as AD. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:20, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Til, *quote* the policy. Otherwise, quit edit warring in what is otherwise a neutral argument (one vs. one, with policy favoring neither side). I.e., if you can't quote the policy, and if it doesn't unequivocally support you, you have no business edit warring in an attempt to impose your personal preference, especially since what you're seeking to do is to change content agreed to by three editors (you included) and stable for months. SamEV ( talk) 17:03, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
150,845 (city)/32,114 (urban) in this poor village? Confused with the numbers for the district of Akçakale?-- Dipa1965 ( talk) 07:18, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
After the collapse of the Assyrian empire, Harran fell under Median domination, it's one of the parts of the former Assyrian empire wich was taken by the Median king Cyaxare:
French links:
http://www.astrolife.fr/medes.html http://antikforever.com/Asie_Mineure/Divers/commagene.htm#Harran
English links:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/147792/Cyaxares
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DGrji159JmcJ:www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/Adda_Guppi_Harran.htm+cyaxare+harran+assyria&cd=4&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.233.218.32 ( talk) 14:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
This talk-page contains plenty of petty, useless arguments. The ARTICLE needs a few chronological corrections.
"It lay directly on the road from Antioch eastward to Nisibis and Ninevah. The Tigris could be followed down to the delta to Babylon." Antioch got her name in Hellenistic times. Babylon is far off the Tigris, nor is she situated in any delta. Plus Euphrates and Tigris form as little a delta, as do the Thames or the Hudson River. "According to Roman authors such as Pliny the Elder, even through the classical period..." Does not belong here, around 1800 BC. "... and the majority of people were Christian Assyrians." - No, they were not, as the text plays decades before Christ. Angel García, Nuremberg 87.158.151.69 ( talk) 13:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
" ... the majority of people were Christian Assyrians." is what I came here to check on. Shouldn't we just delete that, since it's clearly impossible? I hesitate to just do it myself, considering all the flak above.
Freeman (
talk) 21:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
According to wikipedia the Seleucid_Empire lasted till around 63 - 53 BCE. This makes the statement in this article, under Saleucid Period "the majority of people were Christian Assyrians" rather tenuous. If not extremely metaphysical. Unless I'm reading it wrong (apologies if so). 72.230.255.180 ( talk) 02:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Harran article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that a map or maps be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help! |
The tree from which the gum was derived is called stobrum by Pliny, not to be confused by strobum, a variety of pine, which is of North American origin.
Sources such as Josephus or Jasher or Genesis have their own sources unveiled by the relations between them. Thus there are reasons not just heresay why one source says built when Peleg was 50 and others say built when Reu was 50. The two men (father and son) are 30 years apart (Peleg 2269bc, Reu 2239bc producing age 50 as 2219bc and 2189bc). In the case od 2219bc (if as evidence indicates Haran died in year 340 and was reborn into heaven to be with Peleg), this year 50 of Peleg in Masoretic Genesis is Peleg's death at age 239 in year 740 of Greek Genesis. Likewise, if Haran was born when Terah was 70 in Masoretic year 292, his death in year 341 would be Haran's 50th year, not Peleg, not Reu. The 79 of grandpa Nahor (his 29+50) not only makes use of this same year 50 in this WikiPedia article, but can be sourced to claiming grandson Nahor as first born (Nahor's 79 for Terah and 70 for Nahor born when Haran died at 50, and 10 years before Abram born in Haran's 60. Reverse it all in text language ordinal semantics and you have the claim Haran died when Abram was 50 (Jasher) and Haran died when Abram was 60 (Jubilees). The whole world is about reversing truth to create lies. And literally mathematical reversals are in every chronology if you seek to see them. BUT some type of spirit in people is refusing to look for this backbone math. There is so much obvious backbone math, that i am bitterly drowning in it. These dead ancient historians would have to come back to life to ask you why you can't see theit backbone math structure. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:38, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Some scholars identify the Biblical Haran with Harran. Some sentences like this one certainly need to be verified. What kind of scholars? Do they mean that the Biblical Harran was inspired by Harran? And so on. Phizq ( talk) 15:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
(The answer to that question is mathematical and i know WikiPedia considers math 2+3=5 as original research since they expect a source quoted on who says 2+3=5. But here goes the answer. Nimrod's city, his Jeru or Ur is confused between being Ur and Babel and Nineveh. But the 780-day calendar of Mars indicates it went from Ur to Babel to Nineveh to Harran. The book of Jasher would then be correct that Nimrod took in Haran who apparently made the first step by going from Ur to Babel to start Marduk Temple which is claimed by Eusebius as 52-years old when Abram is 9. Apparently the temple was started in 2060bc and Nineveh started in 2058bc. However, the birth of the man is confused with the birth of the city so all though dates match as if Haran was 29 when founding the city in 2049bc, the 13-year Mars is used in 39-year increments to debate Haran or his father born in 2088bc, and if Haran, then his father 39 before that in 2126bc as 360-day calendar. This is derived from Ussher and Jasher's Terah, and from Jasher splitting the 70-year Terah into 39+32 where 71 of 360-day is only 70 years when he says Haran was 32 when Abram born. It is the city that was 32, not the man who built it. This is the source of why Moses skips the issue and says okay 70 and all were born, NEXT.) 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 16:48, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
For example, the section on "Harran in Scripture" needs work. That first sentence about Adam and Eve? No Biblical sources for it exist; both the Tanakh and the New Testament are silent on that. First mention of the place is in the story of Abraham. How do we know Adam and Eve were there? Is this from the Talmud? The Kaballa? Josephus' collected legends? What? Citation definitely needed there. < Jerodian> ( **Hailing frequencies open.**) 12:12, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Phizq, believe it or not, there's a user who claims that Haran and Harran are always identified together. Could be true; or not. It's a big claim that should certainly be sourced. SamEV ( talk) 06:07, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
word.) All you have to do is find ONE theory placing Abraham's Haran elsewhere. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 11:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC) (N
This article needs a map showing Harran's actual location. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthonyhcole ( talk • contribs) 18:06, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
Tamara M. Green,The city of the Moon god: religious traditions of Harran, 1992, pg. 19, Chptr1, Line 10, clearly states without doubt that Harran was founded by Ur as a merchant outpost around the 19th century.
If there is some doubts about this statement, please provide sources and references.
Thanks, Jasonasosa ( talk) 19:25, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
Harran was built to entrap the city of Kish (on the Tigris) between Ur to the south and Harran to the north. Trade such as highland olive oil came down the Tigris river to Kish where the crossover to the Euphrates was narrow and the outpost of Kish was the Babel tower. However, by building Harran to the north it blocked the westward route from Nineveh to Canaan, as well as being close enough on a tributary to the Euprates to keep an eye on northward Euphrates river traffic. When 1st dynasty Ur fell (2029bc) the city Mari was put right on the river to guarantee what Harran could not in trade-flow to Canaan. (It requires longevity to understand that Ibbi-Sin of 2029bc who set up Ishbi-Erra of 2017bc did not end 3rd dynasty Ur in 2029bc but rather became king of 3rd dynasty from 1925-1901bc.) Either way, Ur fell in 2029bc, whether 1st dynasty (Genesis) or 3rd dynasty (traditional), causing foundation of Mari. The sequence of extending a Marduk (Mars) calendar is what proves it. As Mars wanders from the average 780-day TAU, it requires observation earlier before set, and later after rise. Asian increments prove this to be first 60 days, then 120 days. Mayans make it 130 days. Using astronomy Mars and Jupiter cycle the new years of 360-day. Jupiter though 83 Julian years for 7 orbits will retain its 12-year as 360-day (12-24-36-48-60-72-84), and Mars varies but is the best constant for 360-day new year (6 orbits of 780-day). With this in mind the Marduk or as Zecaria Sitchin translates as The Son of The Temple Mountain Pyramid meets as 12-year Jupiter and 13-year Mars in 156 years = 154 Julian. This math is found in all ancient original timelines (Greek, Egypt, Moslem, Hindu, Chinese, Mayan). Modern scholars refuse to see the astronomy. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:04, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
I see the source given for the information in the section "Harran's mythology" is a book entitled The Chronology of Genesis: A Complete History of the Nefilim (2003). I haven't looked this one up yet, or checked to see how reliable it is. But, would you be able to tell what the primary source is for these alleged "myths"? If they are indeed recorded myths, they would seem to confuse the reigns of actual rulers who lived centuries apart, such as Ur-Nammu of Ur-III and Ishbi-Erra of Isin. There were a few rulers of Ur with names like Nannar, but I'm not certain what historical ruler would be meant by "King Marduk". It would also be quite impressive if it could be shown there existed an archaeological tablet as a primary source mentioning Abraham in connection with any of this. However, the absence of what would presumably be ground-breaking news on that in scholarship, makes that entire "Nefilim" source seem a little suspect. Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 04:00, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
This is a POV fork you aretrying to make, because every source I have ever seen is of the POV that Haran = Harran and I don;t know where you are getting any other from. I have yet to see a source placing it anywhere else. Where else has any source ever placed it? -- Til Eulenspiegel ( talk) 06:13, 29 December 2010 (UTC)
Since this article is not necessarily about a Biblical place (for one, regardless of whether or not Harran=Haran, most of the info is certainly non-Biblical in origin), it seems more sensible to avoid the BC/AD style in favor of BCE/CE. Any dissenters? SamEV ( talk) 03:37, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
I dissent too. The error is ordinal in nature where 1AD is not first year but 1 year, and today's 2016 is not the 2016th but 2016 years. The BC system did this. Proof is in the math where 532AD was created as 28 of 19 year moon, and 19 of 28 years of weeks. Neither 19-year moon nor 28-year week cycle can be forced to be a 532nd year, it is 532 years and thus from the error of 1BC. Thus 2bc= 1 BAD, and 1bc = AD (no need to say zero) and 1AD is retained as 1 year not 1st year AD. Common Era is not Common to Islam nor China. And CE if common Era has been read as Christian Era which is the same as AD. 75.86.172.174 ( talk) 17:20, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
Til, *quote* the policy. Otherwise, quit edit warring in what is otherwise a neutral argument (one vs. one, with policy favoring neither side). I.e., if you can't quote the policy, and if it doesn't unequivocally support you, you have no business edit warring in an attempt to impose your personal preference, especially since what you're seeking to do is to change content agreed to by three editors (you included) and stable for months. SamEV ( talk) 17:03, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
150,845 (city)/32,114 (urban) in this poor village? Confused with the numbers for the district of Akçakale?-- Dipa1965 ( talk) 07:18, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
After the collapse of the Assyrian empire, Harran fell under Median domination, it's one of the parts of the former Assyrian empire wich was taken by the Median king Cyaxare:
French links:
http://www.astrolife.fr/medes.html http://antikforever.com/Asie_Mineure/Divers/commagene.htm#Harran
English links:
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/147792/Cyaxares
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:DGrji159JmcJ:www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sitchin/Adda_Guppi_Harran.htm+cyaxare+harran+assyria&cd=4&hl=fr&ct=clnk&gl=fr — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.233.218.32 ( talk) 14:13, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
This talk-page contains plenty of petty, useless arguments. The ARTICLE needs a few chronological corrections.
"It lay directly on the road from Antioch eastward to Nisibis and Ninevah. The Tigris could be followed down to the delta to Babylon." Antioch got her name in Hellenistic times. Babylon is far off the Tigris, nor is she situated in any delta. Plus Euphrates and Tigris form as little a delta, as do the Thames or the Hudson River. "According to Roman authors such as Pliny the Elder, even through the classical period..." Does not belong here, around 1800 BC. "... and the majority of people were Christian Assyrians." - No, they were not, as the text plays decades before Christ. Angel García, Nuremberg 87.158.151.69 ( talk) 13:26, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
" ... the majority of people were Christian Assyrians." is what I came here to check on. Shouldn't we just delete that, since it's clearly impossible? I hesitate to just do it myself, considering all the flak above.
Freeman (
talk) 21:58, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
According to wikipedia the Seleucid_Empire lasted till around 63 - 53 BCE. This makes the statement in this article, under Saleucid Period "the majority of people were Christian Assyrians" rather tenuous. If not extremely metaphysical. Unless I'm reading it wrong (apologies if so). 72.230.255.180 ( talk) 02:18, 26 September 2013 (UTC)