This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hargeisa article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article in hole misses a lot of events in the past. I feel it glorifies the old regime of Siad Barre by mentioning the very few achievements that happened during his time and ignoring his wrong deeds.
I agree Hurbad ( talk) 10:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
I have a problem with the brief description of Hargiesa's history in this page. It jumps over and skips a lot of important events with a very few details and a misleading tone. So from 196o to 1980 all what is there to talk about is a museum? Furthermore, what about the period from 1980 to 1991 (the time that witnessed an extensive and systematic human rights violations on a large scale against the population of Hargiesa and much of the central-eastern present day Somaliland)I suggest we expand this section into 3 parts:
A) From 1960 - 1969 (from the union to the coup)
B) From 1969 - 1980 (from the coup until the beginning of human rights violations)
C From 1980 - 1991 (from HRV ending till the beginning of the Somali civil war)
We can add more sections later, however, I believe these 3 different eras that shaped Hargiesa's history should not be trivialized by a museum that was destroyed later during the civil war. Or the "Numerous new development projects that were subsequently launched in the city " when in fact, it was prohibited by law to build over 2 store building in the north(present day Somaliland) One of the many unfair government practices discriminating against the majority Isaaq clan n the region which it's not highlighted anywhere here. Warabe-94 ( talk) 18:50, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Somajeeste: you have violated Wikipedia's WP:3RR rule. Please self-revert your most recent edit or you risk getting your account blocked. What you are doing is disruptive editing. The situation between Somaliland and Somalia is well known, and Somaliland's status has been discussed extensively. The section has suffered persistent vandalism for quite some time now which is why many of the pages were placed under protection. This is not a new discussion Talk:Hargeisa#Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2015. Please cease the disruptive editing and self-revert your most recent edit. You can then discuss the issue in the talkpage. Kzl55 ( talk) 15:40, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please revert it the way it was change from Horn of africa to Northwestern Somalia
this guy is famous for WP:PROMOTION and WP:POV his intention of allowing material which twists the facts . this is un acceptable to edit without discussing consensus, it important as CIA fact book referenced to to mention northwestern somalia.
}} Somajeeste ( talk) 15:47, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Should Hargeisa be described as being (a) in Somalia, (b) in Somaliland, (c) in the Horn of Africa, or (d) in some other way? EdJohnston ( talk) 21:54, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Consistent websites and consensuses on the population of Somalia has stated the population of Hargeisa being in the 6 - 500,000 region, this is a huge discrepancy between the population that is identified in the article. In fact in the article itself states "Hargeisa has estimated population of around 760,000 as of 2015", its 2017 now so how can the population jump from 760,000 in 2015 to 1.5 Million in 2017?
There are a lot of reliable websites out there on population censuses on Hargeisa that have not been referenced
Evidence of Hargeisa's Population:
"477,876" according to this census in 2017
"477 000 people" according to this website
"477,876" exactly the same according to this website
"477,876" and exactly the same here as well
""477,876" same figure yet again.
Please fix the population of Hargeisa, it is not 1.5Million its far from it as outlined above
Bytro4k (
talk)
17:02, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please copy the elevation (1334 m) of the town from the text in the introduction to the Infobox elevation_m field This is for clarity and consistency for readers wanting the basis stats of the town. MWchat ( talk) 16:52, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Hargeisa is the second largest city of Somalia after the capital Mogadishu. [1] [2]Therefore, is very important piece of information that would be informative for readers. If you dispute this information being included in the article can you state your reasons here. And note - This is content is independent of the Somalia-Somaliland relationship. Xargaga ( talk) 23:03, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
References
There should be a (self-declared) around country and you should mention the actual country(somalia). Hurbad ( talk) 10:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
It isn’t a country, it’s a state part of Somalia. Please stop undermining the sovereignty of Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 14:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I've amended the lead and the infobox to make clear that Hargeisa is de facto part of the sovereign state of Somaliland, while internationally recognised as part of Somalia. The Somaliland article itself also clearly and prominently states this distinction, so I see no reason why it should be omitted here. Note also that e.g. Sukhumi (Abkhazia) and Stepanakert (Artsakh), comparable in terms of status and (lack of) recognition, handle this the same way. Lennart97 ( talk) 15:19, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
It’s has been changed again to “ Somaliland” which isn’t even a country. Please re-establish de facto Somaliland de jure Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 16:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Lennart97: There is already a consensus to leave the de facto status for the Somaliland article, which explains it perfectly. It would be redundant to add it everywhere else. Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status. Dabaqabad ( talk) 17:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
“Diplomatic recognition in international law is a unilateral declarative political act of a state that acknowledges an act or status of another state or government in control of a state (may be also a recognized state). Recognition can be accorded either on a de facto or de jure basis.” Using only Somaliland's flag, an unrecognized state is misleading. Please reconsider your decision. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 17:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status.That is also absolutely not how Wikipedia works. It's entirely reasonable that readers come across this article without knowing what Somaliland even is. And please explain why articles such as Sukhumi, Stepanakert, Tskhinvali and Tiraspol all have it wrong, too. Lennart97 ( talk) 17:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
long-standing consensus agreed upon by long-standing and respected editors, unless I'm missing something. Scrolling up I see the occasional message from some pro-Somalia POV pusher followed by a rebuttal that Somaliland is in fact a country, but no real discussion about encyclopedic merits of including or excluding Somaliland's de jure status. Sure, there's a clear and obvious consensus that Hargeisa is in Somaliland and that the article should state this - which I'm not going against in any way; I'm just saying it would be encyclopedic and useful to mention that it is not internationally recognised as such. Regardless, even if there is such a consensus, I think it's good to have this discussion. In fact, if we can't resolve this between the two of us, it might be useful to ask for some outside input - maybe WP:Africa? Lennart97 ( talk) 10:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Not a single government in the world will tell you that Hargeisa is the capital of Somaliland(thanks btw this feature is dope :)), multiple governments actually recognize Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, that's not disputed. Examples include USAID [16], which recognizes Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, as well as many articles from reputable sources that explicitly mentions Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland (see [17] and [18])
this:p ) It's certainly interesting to see that some governments indeed call Hargeisa the capital of Somaliland, but on the other hand that makes sense: you don't have to consider Somaliland a sovereign country for it to have a capital, as regions, provinces etc. have capitals, too. It doesn't change that no government recognises it as the capital of the sovereign nation of Somaliland and that, as a consequence, all governments do still consider it to be a part of Somalia, if only de jure. That some countries do directly deal with the Hargeisa government doesn't change that, either.
@ Gebagebo: I have reverted your edit. You seem to say that this was POV. Can you please explain why this referenced text can’t be included on the article? Best, Shirshore ( talk) 00:11, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Hargeisan isn't any of the demonyms of people in Hargeisa. 197.231.201.224 ( talk) 05:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
This is pretty obvious, there's a stack of 5 images there. Esszet ( talk) 02:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Gebagebo: I believe the inclusion of a pushpin map in the infobox on this page unnecessarily clutters it, pushing down the more important information on the page. This is already a very full infobox: with multiple good images, the flag, and city seal, so by having two maps, information is being repeated and taking up a lot of space. I fully believe in adding pushpin maps to pages that don't have these other things (like images), but when they do, pushpin maps are the least important of the bunch, and often take up most space. Could I remove this, or would you rather remove the interactive map? I really don't believe in having both. Cheers! Johnson 524 15:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hargeisa article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The article in hole misses a lot of events in the past. I feel it glorifies the old regime of Siad Barre by mentioning the very few achievements that happened during his time and ignoring his wrong deeds.
I agree Hurbad ( talk) 10:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
I have a problem with the brief description of Hargiesa's history in this page. It jumps over and skips a lot of important events with a very few details and a misleading tone. So from 196o to 1980 all what is there to talk about is a museum? Furthermore, what about the period from 1980 to 1991 (the time that witnessed an extensive and systematic human rights violations on a large scale against the population of Hargiesa and much of the central-eastern present day Somaliland)I suggest we expand this section into 3 parts:
A) From 1960 - 1969 (from the union to the coup)
B) From 1969 - 1980 (from the coup until the beginning of human rights violations)
C From 1980 - 1991 (from HRV ending till the beginning of the Somali civil war)
We can add more sections later, however, I believe these 3 different eras that shaped Hargiesa's history should not be trivialized by a museum that was destroyed later during the civil war. Or the "Numerous new development projects that were subsequently launched in the city " when in fact, it was prohibited by law to build over 2 store building in the north(present day Somaliland) One of the many unfair government practices discriminating against the majority Isaaq clan n the region which it's not highlighted anywhere here. Warabe-94 ( talk) 18:50, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
@ Somajeeste: you have violated Wikipedia's WP:3RR rule. Please self-revert your most recent edit or you risk getting your account blocked. What you are doing is disruptive editing. The situation between Somaliland and Somalia is well known, and Somaliland's status has been discussed extensively. The section has suffered persistent vandalism for quite some time now which is why many of the pages were placed under protection. This is not a new discussion Talk:Hargeisa#Semi-protected edit request on 2 September 2015. Please cease the disruptive editing and self-revert your most recent edit. You can then discuss the issue in the talkpage. Kzl55 ( talk) 15:40, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please revert it the way it was change from Horn of africa to Northwestern Somalia
this guy is famous for WP:PROMOTION and WP:POV his intention of allowing material which twists the facts . this is un acceptable to edit without discussing consensus, it important as CIA fact book referenced to to mention northwestern somalia.
}} Somajeeste ( talk) 15:47, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Should Hargeisa be described as being (a) in Somalia, (b) in Somaliland, (c) in the Horn of Africa, or (d) in some other way? EdJohnston ( talk) 21:54, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Consistent websites and consensuses on the population of Somalia has stated the population of Hargeisa being in the 6 - 500,000 region, this is a huge discrepancy between the population that is identified in the article. In fact in the article itself states "Hargeisa has estimated population of around 760,000 as of 2015", its 2017 now so how can the population jump from 760,000 in 2015 to 1.5 Million in 2017?
There are a lot of reliable websites out there on population censuses on Hargeisa that have not been referenced
Evidence of Hargeisa's Population:
"477,876" according to this census in 2017
"477 000 people" according to this website
"477,876" exactly the same according to this website
"477,876" and exactly the same here as well
""477,876" same figure yet again.
Please fix the population of Hargeisa, it is not 1.5Million its far from it as outlined above
Bytro4k (
talk)
17:02, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please copy the elevation (1334 m) of the town from the text in the introduction to the Infobox elevation_m field This is for clarity and consistency for readers wanting the basis stats of the town. MWchat ( talk) 16:52, 8 June 2017 (UTC)
Hargeisa is the second largest city of Somalia after the capital Mogadishu. [1] [2]Therefore, is very important piece of information that would be informative for readers. If you dispute this information being included in the article can you state your reasons here. And note - This is content is independent of the Somalia-Somaliland relationship. Xargaga ( talk) 23:03, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
References
There should be a (self-declared) around country and you should mention the actual country(somalia). Hurbad ( talk) 10:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
It isn’t a country, it’s a state part of Somalia. Please stop undermining the sovereignty of Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 14:10, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:52, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 03:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
I've amended the lead and the infobox to make clear that Hargeisa is de facto part of the sovereign state of Somaliland, while internationally recognised as part of Somalia. The Somaliland article itself also clearly and prominently states this distinction, so I see no reason why it should be omitted here. Note also that e.g. Sukhumi (Abkhazia) and Stepanakert (Artsakh), comparable in terms of status and (lack of) recognition, handle this the same way. Lennart97 ( talk) 15:19, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
It’s has been changed again to “ Somaliland” which isn’t even a country. Please re-establish de facto Somaliland de jure Somalia. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 16:14, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Lennart97: There is already a consensus to leave the de facto status for the Somaliland article, which explains it perfectly. It would be redundant to add it everywhere else. Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status. Dabaqabad ( talk) 17:02, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
“Diplomatic recognition in international law is a unilateral declarative political act of a state that acknowledges an act or status of another state or government in control of a state (may be also a recognized state). Recognition can be accorded either on a de facto or de jure basis.” Using only Somaliland's flag, an unrecognized state is misleading. Please reconsider your decision. Amin Farah ibn-Mujahid ( talk) 17:12, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
Someone who reads articles on Somaliland's cities should already be familiar with Somaliland's status.That is also absolutely not how Wikipedia works. It's entirely reasonable that readers come across this article without knowing what Somaliland even is. And please explain why articles such as Sukhumi, Stepanakert, Tskhinvali and Tiraspol all have it wrong, too. Lennart97 ( talk) 17:25, 7 June 2021 (UTC)
long-standing consensus agreed upon by long-standing and respected editors, unless I'm missing something. Scrolling up I see the occasional message from some pro-Somalia POV pusher followed by a rebuttal that Somaliland is in fact a country, but no real discussion about encyclopedic merits of including or excluding Somaliland's de jure status. Sure, there's a clear and obvious consensus that Hargeisa is in Somaliland and that the article should state this - which I'm not going against in any way; I'm just saying it would be encyclopedic and useful to mention that it is not internationally recognised as such. Regardless, even if there is such a consensus, I think it's good to have this discussion. In fact, if we can't resolve this between the two of us, it might be useful to ask for some outside input - maybe WP:Africa? Lennart97 ( talk) 10:48, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Not a single government in the world will tell you that Hargeisa is the capital of Somaliland(thanks btw this feature is dope :)), multiple governments actually recognize Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, that's not disputed. Examples include USAID [16], which recognizes Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland, as well as many articles from reputable sources that explicitly mentions Hargeisa as the capital of Somaliland (see [17] and [18])
this:p ) It's certainly interesting to see that some governments indeed call Hargeisa the capital of Somaliland, but on the other hand that makes sense: you don't have to consider Somaliland a sovereign country for it to have a capital, as regions, provinces etc. have capitals, too. It doesn't change that no government recognises it as the capital of the sovereign nation of Somaliland and that, as a consequence, all governments do still consider it to be a part of Somalia, if only de jure. That some countries do directly deal with the Hargeisa government doesn't change that, either.
@ Gebagebo: I have reverted your edit. You seem to say that this was POV. Can you please explain why this referenced text can’t be included on the article? Best, Shirshore ( talk) 00:11, 10 March 2022 (UTC)
Hargeisan isn't any of the demonyms of people in Hargeisa. 197.231.201.224 ( talk) 05:25, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
This is pretty obvious, there's a stack of 5 images there. Esszet ( talk) 02:07, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
@ Gebagebo: I believe the inclusion of a pushpin map in the infobox on this page unnecessarily clutters it, pushing down the more important information on the page. This is already a very full infobox: with multiple good images, the flag, and city seal, so by having two maps, information is being repeated and taking up a lot of space. I fully believe in adding pushpin maps to pages that don't have these other things (like images), but when they do, pushpin maps are the least important of the bunch, and often take up most space. Could I remove this, or would you rather remove the interactive map? I really don't believe in having both. Cheers! Johnson 524 15:34, 17 June 2024 (UTC)