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No mention of the Middle Class? Ludicrous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.7.237 ( talk) 07:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am a rare Wikipedia editor. When I feel it particularly necessary, I do. This is my second time.
1) I added the following descriptive linked constructs: "self-determination, class conflict and injustice."
So the list now reads: "The songs are usually short, fast, and loud, covering topics such as: politics, personal freedom, self-determination, fascism, class conflict, authority, violence, injustice, social alienation, straight edge, vegetarianism, veganism, war, religion, drugs and the hardcore subculture itself.[2][3][4]"
2) Additionally, I added a short list of groups, that is the most overlooked part of the whole thing.
"Among them were: Bold, Gorilla Biscuits, Side By Side, Breakdown, Trip 6, Warzone and Youth of Today."
Even before the issue of who was the most influential, who was real hardcore or the difference between hardcore and hardcore punk. How derivative hardcore is from punk in lyrics and music. So how about we make a long list of bands and then debate each ones merits to the genre. My edit was summarily over posted with the extra and around the vegetarian part.
I WANTED TO SEE A LIST OF BANDS WHEN I GOT TO THE PAGE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.5.134 ( talk) 20:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
LIST OF ACTUAL HARDCORE BANDS: COLD AS LIFE, STOUT, FURY OF FIVE, DEATH THREAT, DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR, WARZONE, WARHEAD, DEADAHEAD, BLOOD FOR BLOOD, BLOODY SUNDAY, CRO MAGS, BILLY CLUB SANDWICH, TRAPPED UNDER ICE, NAYSAYER, MADBALL, AGNOSTIC FRONT, FROSTBITE, MORE TO PRIDE, COLD WORLD, MERAUDER, SHEER TERROR, FIRST BLOOD, TERROR, KIDS LIKE US, DMIZE, OUTBURST, OUTBREAK, NO REDEEMING SOCIAL VALUE, ALPHA AND OMEGA, BOXCUTTER, INFEST, NEXT STEP UP, HARSH TRUTH, BIOHAZARD, RAMPAGE, BARFIGHT, GO IT ALONE, BULLDOZE, WEEKEND NACHOS, HOODS, DONNYBROOK, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.11.182.61 ( talk) 09:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC) Don't forget about NJ BLOODLINE and LIFE OF AGONY — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.53.3.212 ( talk) 02:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Musially, hardcore punk was a response to the speed and aggression imposed by the groups of metal influenced by the energy of punk rock. The sound of these groups is known as the speed metal of the mid-1970s, starting to the NWOBHM movement in the 1980s ... These groups are Motorhead and Judas Priest. ( Mago266 ( talk) 05:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC))
correct me if i'm wrong, but this article seems to hardly make any mention of hardcore from the late 90's on. surely bands like bane, maybe have heart, ceremony, or even the new wave of nyhc influenced bands like trapped under ice, naysayer, etc should be mentioned. the current state of hardcore is widespread and diverse, and i think it deserves representation.-unsigned
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hardcore punk's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "terrorizer":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 21:18, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is it a derivative genre rather than a fusion one?
Theburning25 (
talk)
02:36, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I would not consider Thrash Metal as a derivative genre of Hardcore, that belongs to Heavy Metal, and the fusion between the two, Crossover Thrash, is already mentioned in the Infobox. If it's true Hardcore has influenced Thrash metal, it would be incorrect to consider it a sub-genre. As stated in the main article: "Metallica and Slayer, pioneers of the heavy metal subgenre thrash metal, were influenced by a number of hardcore bands".
Raxhonp (
talk)
21:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I revamped the style/sound since I believe the emphasis on musical style is a major feature of the hardcore scene. In order to do this, I listened to the back catalogs of many of the bands and presented an unbiased factual representation of the sound in academic language.
I took the earliest possible bands identified with the hardcore movement and analyzed their styles and presented the best description of THOSE bands, while recognizing that the sound has changed over the years. being that no two hardcore bands back then sounded the same, I compared each and found similar elements.
As for references I really wasn't sure how to reference what something sounds like, perhaps an audio recording??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christmasjones25 ( talk • contribs) 05:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC) oh this was me the whole time, forgot to sign Christmasjones25 ( talk) 05:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
All the other subsections state directly how hardcore punk influenced those genres, while this section states how various genres influenced by hardcore punk have influenced music. It's unnecessary and belongs on the pages of those genres, not this one. The post-hardcore page almost has a copy and paste of the exact same wording, I am going to merge the two of them to that page. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 22:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
However none of the sources do. I left in half of that half with a citation needed tag added. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 21:47, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
The source for that mentions hardcore not hardcore punk, as you can see Hardcore can mean various different types of music. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 16:56, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not an AFI fan but judging from the music I've heard someone can hardly place them in this article. If anything they're simply alternative rock. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate 19:16, 29 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonBallNerd ( talk • contribs)
AFI started as a hardcore punk band and changed their sound to alt rock based sound on the album 'Sing the Sorrow' Rosscowderoy ( talk) 19:14, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
This has been redirected here owing to a lack of referencing. A quick look on Google Books got me 518 separate hits, which suggests significance. However, almost all of the ones I looked at were using the term "hatecore" to refer to neo-Nazi groups. I suggest that either a new article is created using these sources, or a redirect to Rock Against Communism may be more appropriate. Either way we can add a footnote somewhere about the alternative, and less significant, usage of the term. Blackmetalbaz ( talk) 11:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm thinking of making a new section for the page that tracks influential/notable record labels in the past 40 years that sign and promote hardcore bands. I think it would create good references for people and could point them into the direction of where to find more hardcore bands they have not heard of before. Where do you think would be a good spot to place this section? Tjp1991 ( talk) 17:04, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Just wondering, please reply on my talk page using a basic explanation, because this has always confused me Ericdeaththe2nd ( talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd Ericdeaththe2nd ( talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
why do I think we should put "distorted electric guitar" in the infobox? Isn't is obvious? Yes it is obvious to hardcore fans, but your great Aunt Gertrude will not necessarily know. I think it is helpful for newbies to the music. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
where is beatdown hardcore?...this is a legit subgenre of hardcore...The orginator of this subgenre are Bulldoze from NYC scene.Beatdown is created and played mostly for hardcore dancing in a "mosh pit", which can be a violent activity involving high impact body contact (and some physical risk). The style emerged during the late 1980s/early 1990s in the northeastern United States, with most bands being part of the "NYHC" scene. It is stylistically different from hardcore punk, and is generally "heavier". Thick distortion and downtuned guitars are part of the beatdown guitar sound, something which creates a metal effect that further sets beatdown apart from punk rock, like the majority of modern HC bands.Also the genre take influences from hip-hop culture and brutal death metal chug riffs.But unlike Deathcore the style are much less abrasive genre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.21.182.2 ( talk) 23:53, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
wow absolutely no mention of the Buzzcocks, even though they already had the what would become hardcore sound down by 1977/78, along with snotty lyrics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbwoy ( talk • contribs) 18:10, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, the clothing section recently got deleted. I think there should be some discussion before a section is deleted. Other music genre articles have sections on the clothing styles worn in the music scene (e.g. Heavy metal music, Punk rock). I think it is helpful for the reader to know about the clothing styles that are associated with the genre. Particularly with hardcore, it is interesting that there was a move away from the flamboyant styles of early punk to a more practical, dressed down look of crew cuts and sneakers. One could argue for the deletion of the clothing section if the article solely dealt with music, but as it stands, there are sections on politics and hardcore dancing. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:53, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
The section on hardcore zines was recently deleted. I think there should be a discussion as to whether it is desirable to have a section on hardcore zines. They certainly played an important role in the scene. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
To my knowledge, the normal number of sentences in a paragraph is six. Now with some recent joining of paragraphs, there are some very long paragraphs. For example, musical characteristics is 14 sentences long. this could be broken into two paragraphs. Breaking up really long paragraphs makes the article easier to read. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:59, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
A brief overview of the punk antecedents from 1974 to 1977 was deleted with the comment that other music articles don't cover antecedents. As a point of interest, see punk rock, which has a lengthy section on antecedents, going all the way back to early 1960s garage bands and protopunk. Heavy metal music goes even further back in its antecedents section, beginning in the 1950s. The argument for having an antecedents section is that it helps the reader to understand where hardcore came from. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 21:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
During a recent session of editing, an editor referred to contributions of others as "BS", "garbage" and called edits of others "OCD edits" (presumably a reference to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and likened edits to a "hs book report". We should try to be civil in our interactions on Wikipedia. : ) OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Why no mention of Boston Irish punk band: Dropkick Murphys? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:77FA:5580:8120:1FC4:220C:E7FC ( talk) 07:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't find it necessary to assert anarchism as a "far left" ideology in the Politics section, considering the various schools of anarchy which aren't. I deleted "far left" from the sentence and it was reverted. Could someone explain to me why this was wrong? Slimx7 ( talk) 00:44, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Because this is not your personal soap box, and anarchism as defined by its first ideologue, namely Pierre Joseph Proudhon, is left wing. It's a simple matter of terminology.
I added a zine section a long time ago and an editor deleted it. I am giving the zine section another proverbial kick at the can. Not having zines is an omission in the article on the HC punk music and subculture. Zines were the pre-Internet way to communicate info about bands, scenes, and labels. Moreover, zines are a great example of the DIY approach. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 19:02, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah Yeah my bad . Im sorry it looks a lot better I think I got confused this page with another . either way sorry about that . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 05:19, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Too bad we only have one genre in the stylistic origins. Surely there must have been another influence besides punk rock. Has anyone found any research on the roots of hardcore? OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 21:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
The reference I added , that man is a journalist and has a degree...... and about 25 years writing about the hc scene. This Article ITSELF in the United Kingdom section states a combo of NWOBHM and Punk . Hardcore is "beefed" up Punk, the Beefed up part came from Hardrock and Metal . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 16:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
I think the reference for NWOBHM should be used instead being things like WASP and other styles of metal could come got mind where as NWOBHM narrows the focus to the raw aggressive sounds associated with that scene rather that early metal itself . though it can be said Led Zeppelin and others power have had an influence on the early punk and hardcore punk musicians , NWOBHM seems to be more appropriate . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 17:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Can we work this out in a friendly manner? OK. The section is about zines. There is a Wikimedia Commons free-use picture of zines. The picture helps the reader to see the amateur nature of the zines. I think that your deletion of the zine photo is not justified under Wikipedia policy. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 17:39, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Here is the Wikipedia Manual of Style points about images. They require that images be pertinent, relevant and "significantly and directly related to the article's topic." OK. The section is about zines. A photo of a selection of zines is pertinent, relevant, and directly related to the topic at hand. The MOS furthermore says that "images are an important part of any article's presentation. Effort should...be made to improve quality and choice of images...rather than favoring their removal." So the MOS says we should favor the keeping of pertinent, relevant images. Moreover, there is no other photo of zines in the article. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 17:57, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Images must be relevant to the article that they appear in and be significantly and directly related to the article's topic. Because the Wikipedia project is in a position to offer multimedia learning to its audience, images are an important part of any article's presentation. Effort should therefore be made to improve quality and choice of images or captions in articles rather than favoring their removal, especially on pages which have few visuals.
Images are primarily meant to inform readers by providing visual information. Consequently, images should look like what they are meant to illustrate, even if they are not provably authentic images. For example, a photograph of a trompe-l'œil painting of a cupcake may be an acceptable image for Cupcake, but a real cupcake that has been decorated to look like something else entirely is less appropriate. Similarly, an image of an unidentified cell under a light microscope might be useful on multiple articles, so long as there are no visible differences between the cell in the image and the typical appearance of the cell being illustrated.
Articles that use more than one image should present a variety of material near relevant text. If the article is about a general subject for which a large number of good quality images are available, (e.g., Running), editors are encouraged to seek a reasonable level of variety in the age, gender, and race of any people depicted. Adding multiple images with very similar content is less useful. For example, three formal portraits of a general wearing his military uniform may be excessive; substituting two of the portraits with a map of a battle and a picture of its aftermath may provide more information to readers. You should always be watchful not to overwhelm an article with images by adding more just because you can.
Poor quality images (too dark, blurry, etc.) or where the subject in the image is too small, hidden in clutter, ambiguous or otherwise not obvious, should not be used. Contributors should be judicious in deciding which images are the most suitable for the subject matter in an article. For example:
The article as with some, people take too far and feel the need to fill every crevice with a photo . The story is the Content and the text . Not how many pictures can be shoved in every space . let's delete something else like a band . it has too many pictures its starting to look amateur more than it does with all the photos it has now .Many articles of Huge Bands, companies, genres, have a Few Pictures . Not ones to try and promote bands profiles .Thats what this one has . At least a few times . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 18:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Already Fourteen Photos . Far more than most of this size. Maybe its a good idea to request a mediator .
68.39.152.45 (
talk)
18:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
The Punk Rock page has more "meat" in the text and its a LOT of text Content then a photo so the main focus, is in favor of the text . I do see some areas that can be fleshed out . I think the hardcore page wouldn't work with every section in depth like theirs, thats what makes this page also unique to hardcore , but I do think that some sections here are too small and that would work to balance out the photos to keep the text the main teaching and learning tool . I would like to resize the photo of zines a little smaller even if it has to be re-uploaded . Then it might now be too much and too "busy" . People read to retain information the right set up enhances that . Too many pictures are a distraction . They take away from the knowledge . More fleshed out sections can help . Ill brainstorm on that until later . I guess add the picture, if it bumps the others too far out of whack we can resize it or when the story gets fleshed out a little, maybe it will balance itself out more. The third option is we can fill out some sections more . Make it more balanced and then add the zines' photo, after, so it Accentuates and isn't the meat and potatoes of the section . the sections of "influence on other genres" . That could be good place to start adding more content(depth) . Ill study some other pages meanwhile when I get a chance then bring that knowledge here . a little later . Thanks a lot . I love to share knowledge and I like sharing that here for free . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 18:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Ill be back in a little later then Ill have a minute to type it out . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 23:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Recently another editor deleted information about Canadian hardcore record labels from the 1980s and 1990s. This content was called promo about labels. It is not an attempt to promote labels. Indeed, two of the labels are now out of business, so it's not promoting these labels. I think the reader benefits from knowing about the labels in a country's hardcore scene. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:56, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I added the following content. First, a sentence that provides a generalization. Then, mindful of a concern raised by another editor, I noted that there are exceptions to the generalization. Giving a generalization and then stating that there are exceptions is a standard process. It is not contradictory to give a generalization and then note that there are exceptions. Here is the deleted text:
There should be a mention of The Ramones and their influence to Hardcore Punk. In the musical characteristics it should mention how the bands took Johnny Ramone's down stroking, barre chord technique and Tommy Ramone's straight forward drumming and sped it up to make it more raw and Hardcore. Also, The Ramones were a big influence on many big name bands like The Dead Kennedys, and if you read about Henry Rollins talk about his early days, you'll see The Ramones were a big influence on the DC scene as well which includes bands like Minor Threat who are another big name. The Bad Brains even got their name from a Ramones song. Without the Ramones, the Bad Brains wouldn't have started playing Hardcore. The Ramones even had a big influence on bands like the Circle Jerks and Black Flag. Their influence isn't as empathized here as much as it should be. They were really well respected and also played shows with Hardcore Punk bands like Black Flag and Rich Kids on LSD.
Unconstructive comments, personal attacks, etc
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The Ramones style of playing is definitely an important influence in Hardcore Punk. Johnny Ramone's playing style (down strokes + major barre chords) is a musical characteristic. The sources are right there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.199.168 ( talk) 23:32, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm starting a new section because I can't stand reading it like that. Anyways, why the hell did you remove my response? You're being quite rude man. Like I said, obviously this is an argument so both parties can do something better, but it really gives the impression that you're just trying to keep this going. Just let me work on the damn thing, and until I put it in the article just shut the hell up and drop this. This has gone way too far now. Blaguymonkey.
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Okay, that last conversation degraded into all sorts of off-topic rants and personal attacks. Lets try again. Please present content and requested sources below. Please make your argument short and concise, and deal with one issue at a time, as to not get sidetracks or overwhelmed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:05, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
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I don't know what the issue is, and I don't really care. But the recent edit warring needs to stop. Controversial material should not be re-added to an article w/o consensus. And once that consensus is reached, it needs to be respected by all involved. Please remember that there are multiple avenues open for resolving content disputes. Thank you. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:16, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Statik N and 73.150.168.222, neither of you have pointed to sources for your assertions. In Wikipedia, editors opinions matter less than their sources. Dimadick ( talk) 17:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Block evasion by User:CombatMarshmallow. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Block evasion by User:CombatMarshmallow. |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hardcore_punk&diff=767547107&oldid=767462123 This editor is looking for anyway to "thicken" the fake genre they added. Theres a Serious Conflict of interest. /info/en/?search=User_talk:Statik_N "Static_N" is Highly Likely a sock or another users page who uses it on his "off" days from another account. 73.150.168.222 ( talk) 15:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC) You made a subgenres list part of the history section. You made the article extremely confusing. Statik N ( talk) 21:20, 26 February 2017 (UTC) reporting this. BTW that "genre" will never matter. I didnt touch it. the Stable version is correct. 73.150.168.222 ( talk) 21:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC) |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
No mention of the Middle Class? Ludicrous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.117.7.237 ( talk) 07:18, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am a rare Wikipedia editor. When I feel it particularly necessary, I do. This is my second time.
1) I added the following descriptive linked constructs: "self-determination, class conflict and injustice."
So the list now reads: "The songs are usually short, fast, and loud, covering topics such as: politics, personal freedom, self-determination, fascism, class conflict, authority, violence, injustice, social alienation, straight edge, vegetarianism, veganism, war, religion, drugs and the hardcore subculture itself.[2][3][4]"
2) Additionally, I added a short list of groups, that is the most overlooked part of the whole thing.
"Among them were: Bold, Gorilla Biscuits, Side By Side, Breakdown, Trip 6, Warzone and Youth of Today."
Even before the issue of who was the most influential, who was real hardcore or the difference between hardcore and hardcore punk. How derivative hardcore is from punk in lyrics and music. So how about we make a long list of bands and then debate each ones merits to the genre. My edit was summarily over posted with the extra and around the vegetarian part.
I WANTED TO SEE A LIST OF BANDS WHEN I GOT TO THE PAGE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.224.5.134 ( talk) 20:44, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
LIST OF ACTUAL HARDCORE BANDS: COLD AS LIFE, STOUT, FURY OF FIVE, DEATH THREAT, DEATH BEFORE DISHONOR, WARZONE, WARHEAD, DEADAHEAD, BLOOD FOR BLOOD, BLOODY SUNDAY, CRO MAGS, BILLY CLUB SANDWICH, TRAPPED UNDER ICE, NAYSAYER, MADBALL, AGNOSTIC FRONT, FROSTBITE, MORE TO PRIDE, COLD WORLD, MERAUDER, SHEER TERROR, FIRST BLOOD, TERROR, KIDS LIKE US, DMIZE, OUTBURST, OUTBREAK, NO REDEEMING SOCIAL VALUE, ALPHA AND OMEGA, BOXCUTTER, INFEST, NEXT STEP UP, HARSH TRUTH, BIOHAZARD, RAMPAGE, BARFIGHT, GO IT ALONE, BULLDOZE, WEEKEND NACHOS, HOODS, DONNYBROOK, —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.11.182.61 ( talk) 09:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC) Don't forget about NJ BLOODLINE and LIFE OF AGONY — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.53.3.212 ( talk) 02:59, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
Musially, hardcore punk was a response to the speed and aggression imposed by the groups of metal influenced by the energy of punk rock. The sound of these groups is known as the speed metal of the mid-1970s, starting to the NWOBHM movement in the 1980s ... These groups are Motorhead and Judas Priest. ( Mago266 ( talk) 05:47, 10 November 2009 (UTC))
correct me if i'm wrong, but this article seems to hardly make any mention of hardcore from the late 90's on. surely bands like bane, maybe have heart, ceremony, or even the new wave of nyhc influenced bands like trapped under ice, naysayer, etc should be mentioned. the current state of hardcore is widespread and diverse, and i think it deserves representation.-unsigned
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Hardcore punk's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "terrorizer":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 21:18, 4 April 2010 (UTC)
Why is it a derivative genre rather than a fusion one?
Theburning25 (
talk)
02:36, 29 July 2010 (UTC)
I would not consider Thrash Metal as a derivative genre of Hardcore, that belongs to Heavy Metal, and the fusion between the two, Crossover Thrash, is already mentioned in the Infobox. If it's true Hardcore has influenced Thrash metal, it would be incorrect to consider it a sub-genre. As stated in the main article: "Metallica and Slayer, pioneers of the heavy metal subgenre thrash metal, were influenced by a number of hardcore bands".
Raxhonp (
talk)
21:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
I revamped the style/sound since I believe the emphasis on musical style is a major feature of the hardcore scene. In order to do this, I listened to the back catalogs of many of the bands and presented an unbiased factual representation of the sound in academic language.
I took the earliest possible bands identified with the hardcore movement and analyzed their styles and presented the best description of THOSE bands, while recognizing that the sound has changed over the years. being that no two hardcore bands back then sounded the same, I compared each and found similar elements.
As for references I really wasn't sure how to reference what something sounds like, perhaps an audio recording??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Christmasjones25 ( talk • contribs) 05:38, 15 August 2010 (UTC) oh this was me the whole time, forgot to sign Christmasjones25 ( talk) 05:41, 15 August 2010 (UTC)
All the other subsections state directly how hardcore punk influenced those genres, while this section states how various genres influenced by hardcore punk have influenced music. It's unnecessary and belongs on the pages of those genres, not this one. The post-hardcore page almost has a copy and paste of the exact same wording, I am going to merge the two of them to that page. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 22:20, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
However none of the sources do. I left in half of that half with a citation needed tag added. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 21:47, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
The source for that mentions hardcore not hardcore punk, as you can see Hardcore can mean various different types of music. Hoponpop69 ( talk) 16:56, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
I'm not an AFI fan but judging from the music I've heard someone can hardly place them in this article. If anything they're simply alternative rock. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. What We Have Here Is A Failure To Communicate 19:16, 29 September 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by DragonBallNerd ( talk • contribs)
AFI started as a hardcore punk band and changed their sound to alt rock based sound on the album 'Sing the Sorrow' Rosscowderoy ( talk) 19:14, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
This has been redirected here owing to a lack of referencing. A quick look on Google Books got me 518 separate hits, which suggests significance. However, almost all of the ones I looked at were using the term "hatecore" to refer to neo-Nazi groups. I suggest that either a new article is created using these sources, or a redirect to Rock Against Communism may be more appropriate. Either way we can add a footnote somewhere about the alternative, and less significant, usage of the term. Blackmetalbaz ( talk) 11:12, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
Hey guys, I'm thinking of making a new section for the page that tracks influential/notable record labels in the past 40 years that sign and promote hardcore bands. I think it would create good references for people and could point them into the direction of where to find more hardcore bands they have not heard of before. Where do you think would be a good spot to place this section? Tjp1991 ( talk) 17:04, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
Just wondering, please reply on my talk page using a basic explanation, because this has always confused me Ericdeaththe2nd ( talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)ericdeaththe2nd Ericdeaththe2nd ( talk) 16:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
why do I think we should put "distorted electric guitar" in the infobox? Isn't is obvious? Yes it is obvious to hardcore fans, but your great Aunt Gertrude will not necessarily know. I think it is helpful for newbies to the music. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:58, 18 May 2013 (UTC)
where is beatdown hardcore?...this is a legit subgenre of hardcore...The orginator of this subgenre are Bulldoze from NYC scene.Beatdown is created and played mostly for hardcore dancing in a "mosh pit", which can be a violent activity involving high impact body contact (and some physical risk). The style emerged during the late 1980s/early 1990s in the northeastern United States, with most bands being part of the "NYHC" scene. It is stylistically different from hardcore punk, and is generally "heavier". Thick distortion and downtuned guitars are part of the beatdown guitar sound, something which creates a metal effect that further sets beatdown apart from punk rock, like the majority of modern HC bands.Also the genre take influences from hip-hop culture and brutal death metal chug riffs.But unlike Deathcore the style are much less abrasive genre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.21.182.2 ( talk) 23:53, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
wow absolutely no mention of the Buzzcocks, even though they already had the what would become hardcore sound down by 1977/78, along with snotty lyrics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starbwoy ( talk • contribs) 18:10, 5 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi, the clothing section recently got deleted. I think there should be some discussion before a section is deleted. Other music genre articles have sections on the clothing styles worn in the music scene (e.g. Heavy metal music, Punk rock). I think it is helpful for the reader to know about the clothing styles that are associated with the genre. Particularly with hardcore, it is interesting that there was a move away from the flamboyant styles of early punk to a more practical, dressed down look of crew cuts and sneakers. One could argue for the deletion of the clothing section if the article solely dealt with music, but as it stands, there are sections on politics and hardcore dancing. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:53, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
The section on hardcore zines was recently deleted. I think there should be a discussion as to whether it is desirable to have a section on hardcore zines. They certainly played an important role in the scene. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:56, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
To my knowledge, the normal number of sentences in a paragraph is six. Now with some recent joining of paragraphs, there are some very long paragraphs. For example, musical characteristics is 14 sentences long. this could be broken into two paragraphs. Breaking up really long paragraphs makes the article easier to read. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 18:59, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
A brief overview of the punk antecedents from 1974 to 1977 was deleted with the comment that other music articles don't cover antecedents. As a point of interest, see punk rock, which has a lengthy section on antecedents, going all the way back to early 1960s garage bands and protopunk. Heavy metal music goes even further back in its antecedents section, beginning in the 1950s. The argument for having an antecedents section is that it helps the reader to understand where hardcore came from. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 21:16, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
During a recent session of editing, an editor referred to contributions of others as "BS", "garbage" and called edits of others "OCD edits" (presumably a reference to Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) and likened edits to a "hs book report". We should try to be civil in our interactions on Wikipedia. : ) OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:57, 5 November 2013 (UTC)
Why no mention of Boston Irish punk band: Dropkick Murphys? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:77FA:5580:8120:1FC4:220C:E7FC ( talk) 07:59, 14 April 2014 (UTC)
I don't find it necessary to assert anarchism as a "far left" ideology in the Politics section, considering the various schools of anarchy which aren't. I deleted "far left" from the sentence and it was reverted. Could someone explain to me why this was wrong? Slimx7 ( talk) 00:44, 3 June 2014 (UTC)
Because this is not your personal soap box, and anarchism as defined by its first ideologue, namely Pierre Joseph Proudhon, is left wing. It's a simple matter of terminology.
I added a zine section a long time ago and an editor deleted it. I am giving the zine section another proverbial kick at the can. Not having zines is an omission in the article on the HC punk music and subculture. Zines were the pre-Internet way to communicate info about bands, scenes, and labels. Moreover, zines are a great example of the DIY approach. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 19:02, 4 June 2014 (UTC)
Yeah Yeah my bad . Im sorry it looks a lot better I think I got confused this page with another . either way sorry about that . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 05:19, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Too bad we only have one genre in the stylistic origins. Surely there must have been another influence besides punk rock. Has anyone found any research on the roots of hardcore? OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 21:02, 16 June 2014 (UTC)
The reference I added , that man is a journalist and has a degree...... and about 25 years writing about the hc scene. This Article ITSELF in the United Kingdom section states a combo of NWOBHM and Punk . Hardcore is "beefed" up Punk, the Beefed up part came from Hardrock and Metal . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 16:11, 30 June 2014 (UTC)
I think the reference for NWOBHM should be used instead being things like WASP and other styles of metal could come got mind where as NWOBHM narrows the focus to the raw aggressive sounds associated with that scene rather that early metal itself . though it can be said Led Zeppelin and others power have had an influence on the early punk and hardcore punk musicians , NWOBHM seems to be more appropriate . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 17:47, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Can we work this out in a friendly manner? OK. The section is about zines. There is a Wikimedia Commons free-use picture of zines. The picture helps the reader to see the amateur nature of the zines. I think that your deletion of the zine photo is not justified under Wikipedia policy. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 17:39, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Here is the Wikipedia Manual of Style points about images. They require that images be pertinent, relevant and "significantly and directly related to the article's topic." OK. The section is about zines. A photo of a selection of zines is pertinent, relevant, and directly related to the topic at hand. The MOS furthermore says that "images are an important part of any article's presentation. Effort should...be made to improve quality and choice of images...rather than favoring their removal." So the MOS says we should favor the keeping of pertinent, relevant images. Moreover, there is no other photo of zines in the article. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 17:57, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Images must be relevant to the article that they appear in and be significantly and directly related to the article's topic. Because the Wikipedia project is in a position to offer multimedia learning to its audience, images are an important part of any article's presentation. Effort should therefore be made to improve quality and choice of images or captions in articles rather than favoring their removal, especially on pages which have few visuals.
Images are primarily meant to inform readers by providing visual information. Consequently, images should look like what they are meant to illustrate, even if they are not provably authentic images. For example, a photograph of a trompe-l'œil painting of a cupcake may be an acceptable image for Cupcake, but a real cupcake that has been decorated to look like something else entirely is less appropriate. Similarly, an image of an unidentified cell under a light microscope might be useful on multiple articles, so long as there are no visible differences between the cell in the image and the typical appearance of the cell being illustrated.
Articles that use more than one image should present a variety of material near relevant text. If the article is about a general subject for which a large number of good quality images are available, (e.g., Running), editors are encouraged to seek a reasonable level of variety in the age, gender, and race of any people depicted. Adding multiple images with very similar content is less useful. For example, three formal portraits of a general wearing his military uniform may be excessive; substituting two of the portraits with a map of a battle and a picture of its aftermath may provide more information to readers. You should always be watchful not to overwhelm an article with images by adding more just because you can.
Poor quality images (too dark, blurry, etc.) or where the subject in the image is too small, hidden in clutter, ambiguous or otherwise not obvious, should not be used. Contributors should be judicious in deciding which images are the most suitable for the subject matter in an article. For example:
The article as with some, people take too far and feel the need to fill every crevice with a photo . The story is the Content and the text . Not how many pictures can be shoved in every space . let's delete something else like a band . it has too many pictures its starting to look amateur more than it does with all the photos it has now .Many articles of Huge Bands, companies, genres, have a Few Pictures . Not ones to try and promote bands profiles .Thats what this one has . At least a few times . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 18:02, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Already Fourteen Photos . Far more than most of this size. Maybe its a good idea to request a mediator .
68.39.152.45 (
talk)
18:09, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
The Punk Rock page has more "meat" in the text and its a LOT of text Content then a photo so the main focus, is in favor of the text . I do see some areas that can be fleshed out . I think the hardcore page wouldn't work with every section in depth like theirs, thats what makes this page also unique to hardcore , but I do think that some sections here are too small and that would work to balance out the photos to keep the text the main teaching and learning tool . I would like to resize the photo of zines a little smaller even if it has to be re-uploaded . Then it might now be too much and too "busy" . People read to retain information the right set up enhances that . Too many pictures are a distraction . They take away from the knowledge . More fleshed out sections can help . Ill brainstorm on that until later . I guess add the picture, if it bumps the others too far out of whack we can resize it or when the story gets fleshed out a little, maybe it will balance itself out more. The third option is we can fill out some sections more . Make it more balanced and then add the zines' photo, after, so it Accentuates and isn't the meat and potatoes of the section . the sections of "influence on other genres" . That could be good place to start adding more content(depth) . Ill study some other pages meanwhile when I get a chance then bring that knowledge here . a little later . Thanks a lot . I love to share knowledge and I like sharing that here for free . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 18:51, 7 July 2014 (UTC)
Ill be back in a little later then Ill have a minute to type it out . 68.39.152.45 ( talk) 23:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
Recently another editor deleted information about Canadian hardcore record labels from the 1980s and 1990s. This content was called promo about labels. It is not an attempt to promote labels. Indeed, two of the labels are now out of business, so it's not promoting these labels. I think the reader benefits from knowing about the labels in a country's hardcore scene. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 20:56, 16 July 2014 (UTC)
I added the following content. First, a sentence that provides a generalization. Then, mindful of a concern raised by another editor, I noted that there are exceptions to the generalization. Giving a generalization and then stating that there are exceptions is a standard process. It is not contradictory to give a generalization and then note that there are exceptions. Here is the deleted text:
There should be a mention of The Ramones and their influence to Hardcore Punk. In the musical characteristics it should mention how the bands took Johnny Ramone's down stroking, barre chord technique and Tommy Ramone's straight forward drumming and sped it up to make it more raw and Hardcore. Also, The Ramones were a big influence on many big name bands like The Dead Kennedys, and if you read about Henry Rollins talk about his early days, you'll see The Ramones were a big influence on the DC scene as well which includes bands like Minor Threat who are another big name. The Bad Brains even got their name from a Ramones song. Without the Ramones, the Bad Brains wouldn't have started playing Hardcore. The Ramones even had a big influence on bands like the Circle Jerks and Black Flag. Their influence isn't as empathized here as much as it should be. They were really well respected and also played shows with Hardcore Punk bands like Black Flag and Rich Kids on LSD.
Unconstructive comments, personal attacks, etc
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The Ramones style of playing is definitely an important influence in Hardcore Punk. Johnny Ramone's playing style (down strokes + major barre chords) is a musical characteristic. The sources are right there. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.48.199.168 ( talk) 23:32, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm starting a new section because I can't stand reading it like that. Anyways, why the hell did you remove my response? You're being quite rude man. Like I said, obviously this is an argument so both parties can do something better, but it really gives the impression that you're just trying to keep this going. Just let me work on the damn thing, and until I put it in the article just shut the hell up and drop this. This has gone way too far now. Blaguymonkey.
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Okay, that last conversation degraded into all sorts of off-topic rants and personal attacks. Lets try again. Please present content and requested sources below. Please make your argument short and concise, and deal with one issue at a time, as to not get sidetracks or overwhelmed. Sergecross73 msg me 13:05, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
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I don't know what the issue is, and I don't really care. But the recent edit warring needs to stop. Controversial material should not be re-added to an article w/o consensus. And once that consensus is reached, it needs to be respected by all involved. Please remember that there are multiple avenues open for resolving content disputes. Thank you. - Ad Orientem ( talk) 00:16, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
Statik N and 73.150.168.222, neither of you have pointed to sources for your assertions. In Wikipedia, editors opinions matter less than their sources. Dimadick ( talk) 17:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Block evasion by User:CombatMarshmallow. |
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Block evasion by User:CombatMarshmallow. |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Hardcore_punk&diff=767547107&oldid=767462123 This editor is looking for anyway to "thicken" the fake genre they added. Theres a Serious Conflict of interest. /info/en/?search=User_talk:Statik_N "Static_N" is Highly Likely a sock or another users page who uses it on his "off" days from another account. 73.150.168.222 ( talk) 15:47, 26 February 2017 (UTC) You made a subgenres list part of the history section. You made the article extremely confusing. Statik N ( talk) 21:20, 26 February 2017 (UTC) reporting this. BTW that "genre" will never matter. I didnt touch it. the Stable version is correct. 73.150.168.222 ( talk) 21:45, 26 February 2017 (UTC) |