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Should information on Ashley Madison data leak be included? For example:
"Tzortzis' details were included in the Ashley Madison details leak [1], a dating website marketed to married people. Information included his name, address and bank account details. The listed preferences included "cuddling", "receiving oral sex," and "sensual massage" [2]. Further, the first payment (£54) was taken while Tzortzis was in Australia and payments continued to be made for 9 months (£15 per month) [3]. The account was set up from an IP address in Sydney[2]. Tzortzis denied that the account belonged to him and stated that he was going to contact the police to investigate the fraud. Initially, he posted a statement on Facebook however this has since been deleted." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Le banana ( talk • contribs) 22:43, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Citations to reliable, authoritative, and neutral third-party sources are essential. Wikipedia requires them. Two good sets of Wikipedia guidelines that I have found really useful can be found HERE and HERE. See the Manual of Style guidelines for biographies located HERE. Wikipedia's rules on biographies of living persons are strict. If something is unreferenced, and potentially contentious, it should be removed immediately. Please desist. George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 17:11, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Keep Nuetral Macaya5738 ( talk) 09:51, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
There are a lot of SPA's active here. I believe some action needs to be taken. Regards. Jeff5102 ( talk) 20:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because he meets the GNG. Philafrenzy ( talk) 05:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
A draft is actively being worked on at Draft:Hamza Tzortzis - the aim is to make the article more neutral whilst maintaining WP:V -- samtar talk or stalk 14:21, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I believe the use of a verbatim quote from The Telegraph is causing a bit of a neutrality issue - Wikipedia shouldn't really be describing an institute as "hardline". I think removing the quote entirely and paraphrasing would allow us to maintain the facts in a neutral manner. I'd welcome further input on this -- samtar talk or stalk 14:34, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear friends, I have re-inserted a direct quotation from a newspaper that certainly meets the criteria of a RS and is widely used on Wikipedia as a RS. One editor in good faith has removed the reference because he says the journalist Andrew Gilligan's ostensible prejudice outweighs the value of RS. Could we please get other opinions to prevent the possibility of an unintended edit war. I certainly don't want that. Other opinions please. Regards, George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 06:29, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have noticed that several edits I made to this article have been reverted or revised. Could someone please justify the reasoning behind the following items:
Please share your feedback. Thank you. Djrun ( talk) 17:46, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Considering what I have read and heard from Tzortzis, I don't see the credibility that The Telegraph and other sources have assumed in that he is a supporter of terrorists and expresses radical views. Consider Tzortzis' website, and reevaluate the stance taken in on this Wikipedia article before publishing absurd remarks. Seems out of place.
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Fractal-Mind ( talk) 15:05, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Not done, unknown as to what the editor wants changed. Please use the change x to y format. Thank you, VViking Talk Edits 15:06, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I propose using the wording in the lead section "he has previously been associated with extreme positions and extremists" in order to show that such characterization took place in the past, according to the following cited sources:
Please share your thoughts or comments. Djrun ( talk) 15:07, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
A journalists article is subjective and the claim of Linking anyone with extremism,has to be proven without a shadow of doubt.If Wikipedia wants to stay neutral and not be biased towards any religion and promote degradation of peaceful preachers of any religio, then remove the biased and false claim of Mr Hamza being associated with extremis. Truthful servant ( talk) 10:43, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
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2.100.40.85 ( talk) 16:02, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Tzortzis' details were included in the Ashley Madison details leak [8], a dating website marketed to married people. Information included his name, address and bank account details. The listed preferences included "cuddling", "receiving oral sex," and "sensual massage" [9]. Further, the first payment (£54) was taken while Tzortzis was in Australia and payments continued to be made for 9 months (£15 per month) [10]. The account was set up from an IP address in Sydney[2]. Tzortzis denied that the account belonged to him and stated that he was going to contact the police to investigate the fraud. Initially, he posted a statement on Facebook however this has since been deleted. Le banana ( talk) 15:39, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. My sense is that this information is trivial and would constitute
undue weight, at the very least. There are also implications regarding
Wikipedia policy on biographical content. The Middle East Forum, which you cited twice, is not a
reliable source in general, and certainly not for biographical content about a living person.
Rivertorch
FIRE
WATER
16:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)This edit simply adds additional detail to the 2010 article. Although it may be deemed unnecessary by one user, I believe further discussion and citation of how the edit does not meet Wikipedia guidelines should be presented before reverting. Djrun ( talk) 06:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
In reference to the ABP news article (an interview with Tzortzis) as well as the news.com.au, both sources mention that Tzortzis does not support ISIS, and no reference is provided stating that he has done so previously. In the Wikipedia article, the controversy section mentions that Tzortzis "'now' criticises child marriage, opposes extremism, and denounces the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS)" this wording gives the impression that Tzortzis has supported ISIS in the past, even though the source cited doesn't mention this, and the source itself is highlighting controversies and statements by other individuals regarding Tzortzis positions ( e.g. Secular Party president John Perkins, who said in 2013 he debated Mr Tzortzis and put to him that “the Koran condones child marriage”. Mr Perkins said: “(Mr Tzortzis) defended it ... He was defending child rape. I was absolutely appalled.”
this quote from Perkins does not establish that Tzortzis holds such views it's merely providing quotations about what individuals have said about tzortzis in the past, even though he himself has stated that he does not support such views, yet the phrasing in the wikipedia sentence does not mention this controversy at all, it presumes that he changed his views from supporting ISIS, child marriage, etc. even though that's not what the sources claim or do, they listed controversies surrounding Tzortzis without making a decision on whether the accusations in the controversies are factually true or not (the sources merely report, and heavily recycle materials from other articles, they don't do independent analysis of any of the quotations as that's not their purpose).
The same is true with use of the word "now" regarding his condemnation of violence against individuals of the homosexual community ("he 'now' condemns any violence towards the homosexual community"), the source referenced is an interview with tzortzis, and he was asked: "The Telegraph UK lists you among "extremists who preach opposition to democracy and hatred against homosexuals and Jews." Why can't you love them ?"". no where in the interview did the source mention that Tzortzis previously supported violence against homosexuals, the question says :The Telegraph UK lists you among "extremists who preach ... hatred against homosexuals..." with no mention of violence. In his response Tzortzis' condemns violence against homosexuals, but there is no mention by either the interviewer or tzortzis that he supported violence against homosexuals in the past.
my recommendation is to remove the words "now" in the these two instances and explain the controversy in more depth, or new sources can be cited stating that tzortzis indeed did support, ISIS, violence against homosexuals and child rape in the past. However the current wording in the article is extremely vague regarding his previous views, as opposed to his newer views, as opposed to views attributed to him that he either supported or did not support. what do yall think? Thinktank9238327 ( talk) 18:58, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed the two instances of "now" for now (pun intended) Thinktank9238327 ( talk) 19:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
The wikipedia page did not really mention who he is actually. Where was he born? What is his education? Who is his father? Who is his mother? Which part of Greece does he come from. The only thing that seems Greek to me is his surname. His accent sound very much Indian-Pakistani accent. Well London-Indian accent. Not the Indian accent in India. I suppose he was brought up in an Indian-Pakistani neighborhood in London. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.188.128.214 ( talk) 16:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
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Remove the description stating Hamza is a 'Muslim Apologist", as this is a false and biased statement. 2600:1700:1D2:7880:D4D1:7C37:EFFF:B83 ( talk) 21:51, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.Can we remove the info that has broken sources/unsourced please? Galaxy21ultra ( talk) 16:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
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The article says:
“ According to Metro, Tzortzis has "claimed that those who leave the Islamic faith ‘should be killed.'"[12] He has since stated that he does not believe in apostasy laws, which he calls "outdated".[10]”
This now needs amending as on the 28th of May 2024 on his Verified Twitter account he posted a clarification saying he does believe in the death penalty for Apostasy.
The Twitter post can be found here:
https://x.com/HATzortzis/status/1795436142088642716
In the tweet he refers to Apostasy using the Arabic term Ridda and advocates for the Hudd punishment to be applied. The Hudd/Hudud being the Arabic terms for Islamic legal rulings.
On the 29th of May he then elaborates on why he believes the Death penalty for apostasy is justified:
https://x.com/HATzortzis/status/1795924095286026586 81.78.61.138 ( talk) 17:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Twitter is not an appropriate source here.
PianoDan (
talk)
17:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Should information on Ashley Madison data leak be included? For example:
"Tzortzis' details were included in the Ashley Madison details leak [1], a dating website marketed to married people. Information included his name, address and bank account details. The listed preferences included "cuddling", "receiving oral sex," and "sensual massage" [2]. Further, the first payment (£54) was taken while Tzortzis was in Australia and payments continued to be made for 9 months (£15 per month) [3]. The account was set up from an IP address in Sydney[2]. Tzortzis denied that the account belonged to him and stated that he was going to contact the police to investigate the fraud. Initially, he posted a statement on Facebook however this has since been deleted." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Le banana ( talk • contribs) 22:43, 2 November 2016 (UTC)
Citations to reliable, authoritative, and neutral third-party sources are essential. Wikipedia requires them. Two good sets of Wikipedia guidelines that I have found really useful can be found HERE and HERE. See the Manual of Style guidelines for biographies located HERE. Wikipedia's rules on biographies of living persons are strict. If something is unreferenced, and potentially contentious, it should be removed immediately. Please desist. George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 17:11, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Keep Nuetral Macaya5738 ( talk) 09:51, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
There are a lot of SPA's active here. I believe some action needs to be taken. Regards. Jeff5102 ( talk) 20:31, 22 June 2016 (UTC)
This page should not be speedily deleted because he meets the GNG. Philafrenzy ( talk) 05:50, 23 June 2016 (UTC)
A draft is actively being worked on at Draft:Hamza Tzortzis - the aim is to make the article more neutral whilst maintaining WP:V -- samtar talk or stalk 14:21, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi, I believe the use of a verbatim quote from The Telegraph is causing a bit of a neutrality issue - Wikipedia shouldn't really be describing an institute as "hardline". I think removing the quote entirely and paraphrasing would allow us to maintain the facts in a neutral manner. I'd welcome further input on this -- samtar talk or stalk 14:34, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Dear friends, I have re-inserted a direct quotation from a newspaper that certainly meets the criteria of a RS and is widely used on Wikipedia as a RS. One editor in good faith has removed the reference because he says the journalist Andrew Gilligan's ostensible prejudice outweighs the value of RS. Could we please get other opinions to prevent the possibility of an unintended edit war. I certainly don't want that. Other opinions please. Regards, George Custer's Sabre ( talk) 06:29, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have noticed that several edits I made to this article have been reverted or revised. Could someone please justify the reasoning behind the following items:
Please share your feedback. Thank you. Djrun ( talk) 17:46, 15 September 2016 (UTC)
Considering what I have read and heard from Tzortzis, I don't see the credibility that The Telegraph and other sources have assumed in that he is a supporter of terrorists and expresses radical views. Consider Tzortzis' website, and reevaluate the stance taken in on this Wikipedia article before publishing absurd remarks. Seems out of place.
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Fractal-Mind ( talk) 15:05, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Not done, unknown as to what the editor wants changed. Please use the change x to y format. Thank you, VViking Talk Edits 15:06, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
I propose using the wording in the lead section "he has previously been associated with extreme positions and extremists" in order to show that such characterization took place in the past, according to the following cited sources:
Please share your thoughts or comments. Djrun ( talk) 15:07, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
A journalists article is subjective and the claim of Linking anyone with extremism,has to be proven without a shadow of doubt.If Wikipedia wants to stay neutral and not be biased towards any religion and promote degradation of peaceful preachers of any religio, then remove the biased and false claim of Mr Hamza being associated with extremis. Truthful servant ( talk) 10:43, 2 September 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
2.100.40.85 ( talk) 16:02, 20 December 2017 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Tzortzis' details were included in the Ashley Madison details leak [8], a dating website marketed to married people. Information included his name, address and bank account details. The listed preferences included "cuddling", "receiving oral sex," and "sensual massage" [9]. Further, the first payment (£54) was taken while Tzortzis was in Australia and payments continued to be made for 9 months (£15 per month) [10]. The account was set up from an IP address in Sydney[2]. Tzortzis denied that the account belonged to him and stated that he was going to contact the police to investigate the fraud. Initially, he posted a statement on Facebook however this has since been deleted. Le banana ( talk) 15:39, 14 April 2018 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. My sense is that this information is trivial and would constitute
undue weight, at the very least. There are also implications regarding
Wikipedia policy on biographical content. The Middle East Forum, which you cited twice, is not a
reliable source in general, and certainly not for biographical content about a living person.
Rivertorch
FIRE
WATER
16:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)This edit simply adds additional detail to the 2010 article. Although it may be deemed unnecessary by one user, I believe further discussion and citation of how the edit does not meet Wikipedia guidelines should be presented before reverting. Djrun ( talk) 06:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
In reference to the ABP news article (an interview with Tzortzis) as well as the news.com.au, both sources mention that Tzortzis does not support ISIS, and no reference is provided stating that he has done so previously. In the Wikipedia article, the controversy section mentions that Tzortzis "'now' criticises child marriage, opposes extremism, and denounces the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIS)" this wording gives the impression that Tzortzis has supported ISIS in the past, even though the source cited doesn't mention this, and the source itself is highlighting controversies and statements by other individuals regarding Tzortzis positions ( e.g. Secular Party president John Perkins, who said in 2013 he debated Mr Tzortzis and put to him that “the Koran condones child marriage”. Mr Perkins said: “(Mr Tzortzis) defended it ... He was defending child rape. I was absolutely appalled.”
this quote from Perkins does not establish that Tzortzis holds such views it's merely providing quotations about what individuals have said about tzortzis in the past, even though he himself has stated that he does not support such views, yet the phrasing in the wikipedia sentence does not mention this controversy at all, it presumes that he changed his views from supporting ISIS, child marriage, etc. even though that's not what the sources claim or do, they listed controversies surrounding Tzortzis without making a decision on whether the accusations in the controversies are factually true or not (the sources merely report, and heavily recycle materials from other articles, they don't do independent analysis of any of the quotations as that's not their purpose).
The same is true with use of the word "now" regarding his condemnation of violence against individuals of the homosexual community ("he 'now' condemns any violence towards the homosexual community"), the source referenced is an interview with tzortzis, and he was asked: "The Telegraph UK lists you among "extremists who preach opposition to democracy and hatred against homosexuals and Jews." Why can't you love them ?"". no where in the interview did the source mention that Tzortzis previously supported violence against homosexuals, the question says :The Telegraph UK lists you among "extremists who preach ... hatred against homosexuals..." with no mention of violence. In his response Tzortzis' condemns violence against homosexuals, but there is no mention by either the interviewer or tzortzis that he supported violence against homosexuals in the past.
my recommendation is to remove the words "now" in the these two instances and explain the controversy in more depth, or new sources can be cited stating that tzortzis indeed did support, ISIS, violence against homosexuals and child rape in the past. However the current wording in the article is extremely vague regarding his previous views, as opposed to his newer views, as opposed to views attributed to him that he either supported or did not support. what do yall think? Thinktank9238327 ( talk) 18:58, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed the two instances of "now" for now (pun intended) Thinktank9238327 ( talk) 19:03, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
The wikipedia page did not really mention who he is actually. Where was he born? What is his education? Who is his father? Who is his mother? Which part of Greece does he come from. The only thing that seems Greek to me is his surname. His accent sound very much Indian-Pakistani accent. Well London-Indian accent. Not the Indian accent in India. I suppose he was brought up in an Indian-Pakistani neighborhood in London. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.188.128.214 ( talk) 16:55, 17 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove the description stating Hamza is a 'Muslim Apologist", as this is a false and biased statement. 2600:1700:1D2:7880:D4D1:7C37:EFFF:B83 ( talk) 21:51, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
{{
Edit extended-protected}}
template.Can we remove the info that has broken sources/unsourced please? Galaxy21ultra ( talk) 16:17, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The article says:
“ According to Metro, Tzortzis has "claimed that those who leave the Islamic faith ‘should be killed.'"[12] He has since stated that he does not believe in apostasy laws, which he calls "outdated".[10]”
This now needs amending as on the 28th of May 2024 on his Verified Twitter account he posted a clarification saying he does believe in the death penalty for Apostasy.
The Twitter post can be found here:
https://x.com/HATzortzis/status/1795436142088642716
In the tweet he refers to Apostasy using the Arabic term Ridda and advocates for the Hudd punishment to be applied. The Hudd/Hudud being the Arabic terms for Islamic legal rulings.
On the 29th of May he then elaborates on why he believes the Death penalty for apostasy is justified:
https://x.com/HATzortzis/status/1795924095286026586 81.78.61.138 ( talk) 17:19, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Twitter is not an appropriate source here.
PianoDan (
talk)
17:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)