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I see the article has amassed further speculation on the similarity of Hamnet's name to that of the eponymous character of the play Hamlet since last I looked at it. The relevant change is here.
I've read the cited Greenblatt article and it boils down to Greenblatt saying he feels there must be a connection given the similarly sounding names, and he then spends over six thousand words making speculation and supposition that sound plausible, but of which none is actually supported by any facts (I particularly like the part where he describes the scene at Hamnet's burial — down to the details of the tears on John, Anne, and Judith and Susanna's faces! — and how his supposition that Shakespeare and his immediate family had Catholic sympathies, but were forced into a Protestant burial, proves that Hamlet is a covert Catholic Mass for Hamnet). Eloquently as Greenblatt paints this picture for the reader, in the absence of new facts, here Chambers must trump Greenblatt. Also, somewhat beside the point, I just plain don't find his speculation plausible; the mother's lament in King John I'll buy, but I see no thematic or specific echo of Hamnet's death in Hamlet.
So I'm going to get rid of the parts that were added that relies on Greenblatt (which is essentially all of this theory).
Further, the added bits of nuggets make reference to Will's will and the spelling of Hamnet Sadler's name. Aside from the fact that Will didn't write his own will — that would have been Francis Collins, his lawyer, or more likely Collins' hired scribe — and that the will was not in final form (it was a crude and much amended draft), so any given spelling of the name has at least three possible sources of typos and misunderstandings, the cited transcription of Will's will — and all other transcriptions of it that I've so far seen on the web — are just plain wrong. The one cited here is a better attempt than most, but I still found mistakes within 30 seconds of casual study.
IOW, I'm going to get rid of the bits that support themselves on that particular reference (which is the last bit of the added text).
Are there any better sources than Greenblatt around that might justify keeping this? Preferably something supported by objective facts and not appeals to a mother's tear-streaked face and a father's desperate regret at having abandoned his only son, now dead, in infancy.-- Xover ( talk) 09:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
consider including this logical conclusion: There is also the fact that Shakespeare clearly felt Hamlet/Hamnet was a good name, having named his son this, so would therefore be likely to have also wanted this name for his protagonist. 92.24.136.100 ( talk) 09:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Hamnet Shakespeare is almost completely lost in this article. This article seems to be about 15% Hamnet Shakespeare and 85% William Shakespeare and his works. An article about Hamnet should be mostly about Hamnet, not about how his death might have affected his dad's work. All of that speculation belongs elsewhere. If Hamnet is only notable for having a famous father and for dying young, does he even meet notability requirements? I know very little is known about Hamnet Shakespeare, and his impact on posterity hardly registers except by the possibility that his father might have reflected his own feelings of grief in his writings, and that it meant the end of his father's male line, but that's not about Hamnet - it's about Will. William Shakespeare and his writings are the subjects of other articles. I think mention of those speculations is appropriate for this article, but I think this article should be about Hamnet Shakespeare, and no longer than reliable information warrants. Either that or make this article about the possible impact of Hamnet's death on his father's writing, and incorporate the biographical information given as background. In its current state, I marvel that it still maintains GA status. Has it been reviewed lately? Dcs002 ( talk) 22:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
The article text gives no indication of how Hamnet died, however the page is included in Category:16th-century deaths from plague (disease). My understanding from a few minutes of searching is that the cause of his death is not known, but perhaps I have misunderstood. If the cause of death is given in a reliable source, the article should include it; if it's not known reliably, the category should be removed. Unfortunately, I'm not sure which is the case. 185.219.110.178 ( talk) 22:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)
![]() | Hamnet Shakespeare has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||
|
I see the article has amassed further speculation on the similarity of Hamnet's name to that of the eponymous character of the play Hamlet since last I looked at it. The relevant change is here.
I've read the cited Greenblatt article and it boils down to Greenblatt saying he feels there must be a connection given the similarly sounding names, and he then spends over six thousand words making speculation and supposition that sound plausible, but of which none is actually supported by any facts (I particularly like the part where he describes the scene at Hamnet's burial — down to the details of the tears on John, Anne, and Judith and Susanna's faces! — and how his supposition that Shakespeare and his immediate family had Catholic sympathies, but were forced into a Protestant burial, proves that Hamlet is a covert Catholic Mass for Hamnet). Eloquently as Greenblatt paints this picture for the reader, in the absence of new facts, here Chambers must trump Greenblatt. Also, somewhat beside the point, I just plain don't find his speculation plausible; the mother's lament in King John I'll buy, but I see no thematic or specific echo of Hamnet's death in Hamlet.
So I'm going to get rid of the parts that were added that relies on Greenblatt (which is essentially all of this theory).
Further, the added bits of nuggets make reference to Will's will and the spelling of Hamnet Sadler's name. Aside from the fact that Will didn't write his own will — that would have been Francis Collins, his lawyer, or more likely Collins' hired scribe — and that the will was not in final form (it was a crude and much amended draft), so any given spelling of the name has at least three possible sources of typos and misunderstandings, the cited transcription of Will's will — and all other transcriptions of it that I've so far seen on the web — are just plain wrong. The one cited here is a better attempt than most, but I still found mistakes within 30 seconds of casual study.
IOW, I'm going to get rid of the bits that support themselves on that particular reference (which is the last bit of the added text).
Are there any better sources than Greenblatt around that might justify keeping this? Preferably something supported by objective facts and not appeals to a mother's tear-streaked face and a father's desperate regret at having abandoned his only son, now dead, in infancy.-- Xover ( talk) 09:09, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
consider including this logical conclusion: There is also the fact that Shakespeare clearly felt Hamlet/Hamnet was a good name, having named his son this, so would therefore be likely to have also wanted this name for his protagonist. 92.24.136.100 ( talk) 09:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC)
Hamnet Shakespeare is almost completely lost in this article. This article seems to be about 15% Hamnet Shakespeare and 85% William Shakespeare and his works. An article about Hamnet should be mostly about Hamnet, not about how his death might have affected his dad's work. All of that speculation belongs elsewhere. If Hamnet is only notable for having a famous father and for dying young, does he even meet notability requirements? I know very little is known about Hamnet Shakespeare, and his impact on posterity hardly registers except by the possibility that his father might have reflected his own feelings of grief in his writings, and that it meant the end of his father's male line, but that's not about Hamnet - it's about Will. William Shakespeare and his writings are the subjects of other articles. I think mention of those speculations is appropriate for this article, but I think this article should be about Hamnet Shakespeare, and no longer than reliable information warrants. Either that or make this article about the possible impact of Hamnet's death on his father's writing, and incorporate the biographical information given as background. In its current state, I marvel that it still maintains GA status. Has it been reviewed lately? Dcs002 ( talk) 22:29, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
The article text gives no indication of how Hamnet died, however the page is included in Category:16th-century deaths from plague (disease). My understanding from a few minutes of searching is that the cause of his death is not known, but perhaps I have misunderstood. If the cause of death is given in a reliable source, the article should include it; if it's not known reliably, the category should be removed. Unfortunately, I'm not sure which is the case. 185.219.110.178 ( talk) 22:32, 17 January 2024 (UTC)