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Well, in fact you do have an article about Hallvard Graatop, but it is very debatable if you should, as what is written about him is mostly conjecture based on 18th century folklore. My suggenstion would be to delete the article you have, and dicourage all attempts at revision. Graatop simply does not deserve being mentioned in Wikipedia.
These records were kept by the Vraalstad family for centuries and are currently held in the Norwegian government archives in Oslo. These records formed the basis of Gerhard Naeseth's pioneering English work which Melvin Voxland built upon. Olav Sannes referred to church records in his Norwegian history of that region of Telemark. I would imagine Encyclopedia Britannica also referred to them when writing their article. Wogsland 23:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is a fairy tale presented as facts. It's correct that "Hallvard Graatop" is mentioned in contemporary documents, but never with any reference to his background or family. The name is probably a "nom de guerre", and he must have covered his tracks deliberately. It seems that in this respect he was successful, as there's no record of his execution.
The theory that he came from Drangedal and is historically identifiable with Halvor Roaldstad is highly speculative. However, among common people with ancestry from Drangedal this story is considered gospel, and almost every hobby genealogist of that district will trace his roots back to this mythological figure. Actually, I consider it a stamp of quality and good taste not to include him among your ancestors.
I'm willing to revise the article, but I don't want to start an edit war. leifbk 09:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've removed all the references to Hallvard Torbjornsson that were presented as facts, and added an opening paragraph about the actual evidence. leifbk 13:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've added the "Unencyclopedic" tag, but I have some doubts about it. Considering the widely spread "gospel" character of the Graatop myth, I think that Wikipedia should help in dispelling such myths, and not just keep quiet about them. The original encyclopedists were very vocal about dispelling myths and superstitions. leifbk 14:58, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Your concerns about source documentation are valid, but I am in the the process of moving so I don't have access to my books right now. All I can give you right now is the Library of Congress number of another one of Naeseth's work, Wrolstad Family History, which is 78-73643 and references some of that research. In July when the move is complete I will provide the full sources you have requested. Vandalizing the main article with your diatribe is not civilized behavior however. Wogsland 17:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
If the facts in this article are disputed in published sources, make the article cover the dispute rather than removing disputed information. Historiography articles are legitimate subjects.-- BirgitteSB 11:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The article says: The Black Death, which wrought havoc throughout Europe during the 14th century, had decimated the ruling families of Scandinavia. King Olav of Denmark and Norway was the last native ruler in Scandinavia. When he died in 1387, his wife Margareta took over the rule of those two countries and then Sweden as well.
Margareta wasnt his wife, but his mother. Olav was never married. His mother, Margareta went to be one of the most powerful women — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.116.212.58 ( talk) 19:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Hallvard Graatop article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Well, in fact you do have an article about Hallvard Graatop, but it is very debatable if you should, as what is written about him is mostly conjecture based on 18th century folklore. My suggenstion would be to delete the article you have, and dicourage all attempts at revision. Graatop simply does not deserve being mentioned in Wikipedia.
These records were kept by the Vraalstad family for centuries and are currently held in the Norwegian government archives in Oslo. These records formed the basis of Gerhard Naeseth's pioneering English work which Melvin Voxland built upon. Olav Sannes referred to church records in his Norwegian history of that region of Telemark. I would imagine Encyclopedia Britannica also referred to them when writing their article. Wogsland 23:37, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
This article is a fairy tale presented as facts. It's correct that "Hallvard Graatop" is mentioned in contemporary documents, but never with any reference to his background or family. The name is probably a "nom de guerre", and he must have covered his tracks deliberately. It seems that in this respect he was successful, as there's no record of his execution.
The theory that he came from Drangedal and is historically identifiable with Halvor Roaldstad is highly speculative. However, among common people with ancestry from Drangedal this story is considered gospel, and almost every hobby genealogist of that district will trace his roots back to this mythological figure. Actually, I consider it a stamp of quality and good taste not to include him among your ancestors.
I'm willing to revise the article, but I don't want to start an edit war. leifbk 09:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've removed all the references to Hallvard Torbjornsson that were presented as facts, and added an opening paragraph about the actual evidence. leifbk 13:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
I've added the "Unencyclopedic" tag, but I have some doubts about it. Considering the widely spread "gospel" character of the Graatop myth, I think that Wikipedia should help in dispelling such myths, and not just keep quiet about them. The original encyclopedists were very vocal about dispelling myths and superstitions. leifbk 14:58, 16 June 2007 (UTC)
Your concerns about source documentation are valid, but I am in the the process of moving so I don't have access to my books right now. All I can give you right now is the Library of Congress number of another one of Naeseth's work, Wrolstad Family History, which is 78-73643 and references some of that research. In July when the move is complete I will provide the full sources you have requested. Vandalizing the main article with your diatribe is not civilized behavior however. Wogsland 17:26, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
If the facts in this article are disputed in published sources, make the article cover the dispute rather than removing disputed information. Historiography articles are legitimate subjects.-- BirgitteSB 11:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The article says: The Black Death, which wrought havoc throughout Europe during the 14th century, had decimated the ruling families of Scandinavia. King Olav of Denmark and Norway was the last native ruler in Scandinavia. When he died in 1387, his wife Margareta took over the rule of those two countries and then Sweden as well.
Margareta wasnt his wife, but his mother. Olav was never married. His mother, Margareta went to be one of the most powerful women — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.116.212.58 ( talk) 19:11, 17 September 2012 (UTC)