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Legal charges laid out against accused can be sourced and ennumerated, as can outcomes outcommes of those charges. Withe highly publicized crimes, we do not conceal the charges. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 00:46, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
There's recently been an edit war around whether the perpetrators in this case should be called "British Asian" or "British Pakistani" in the lead of the article. There's now an extended-confirmed protection in place for a few weeks to halt this, but I've a feeling the issue won't go away, so we need to try to reach a consensus.
The sources in the article mainly don't allude to the background of the criminals at all, just referring to them as "men", though one does use the term "Asian" to describe them. If sources don't refer to them as having Pakistani origins, describing them as such in the article is just speculation, or at best WP:OR.
Some other articles about similar cases ( Derby child sex abuse ring, Keighley child sex abuse ring for example) don't mention the background of those involved in the lead, while others ( Newcastle sex abuse ring, Bristol child sex abuse ring) do give this a mention, so there's no real consistency.
The issue is clouded by there being a perception in the UK that this type of crime generally involves perpetrators from ethnic minorities and white victims, and that there's consequently a racial motive. However the sources quoted in this article don't actually say this is the case, they just report the jailing of a group of criminals who sexually abused underage girls.
My personal view is that the ethnicity of criminals doesn't belong in the lead at all unless the crime is unambiguously related to it.
Comments?? Neiltonks ( talk) 13:06, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
I think at this point it is best to avoid having any descriptor in the lead. I understand that it may seem reasonable from your perspective, however it can be seen as prejudiced. In addition nowhere in the article does it state that the perpetrators are muslim, simply being asian and having asian animus does not mean they are practicing muslims. Dmartin969 ( talk) 21:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
And dude your imperturbable response sent to my "talk" after blocking me when I was asking you a question that was quite a bit sensitive and a bit sentimental to, say, the victim and her family in this case, is truth be told utterly deplorable and detestable and now I have no qualm in suspecting your moral ground regarding this matter for defending these filthy pigs.. answer me this little man.. if it was truly your daughter, wouldnt you want this case to be given proper coverage and given adamant justice? please answer this question with proper reverence and without your nonchalant disdain — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightershade93 ( talk • contribs) 22:09, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
In any case it appears that the consensus of this discussion appears to point towards leaving it out, and it will remain as such. Dmartin969 ( talk) 23:11, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Well anyway im not here blame anyone here, just want the information to be represented in the most accurate manner. First of all if your were stuck in irresolute and your scruples were not being exactly sure whether these men were infact muslims; if you see the majority of convicts contain 'muhamed' in their names and you dont need birth certificates to corroborate whether the rest of the named were muslim as well, use your inner gut, this is something that should come to you empirically that they were muslim, come on dudes lets be realistic here, you know and i know and so does everelse know thag they were muslims, why dont you just amend it to what it truly is.. its not only me asking you to do this, you had this request from many others as well, you blocked them all.. now this little girl lost everything, basically her whole life ahead of her, stop defending these perpetrators and do the girl some justice — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightershade93 ( talk • contribs) 23:13, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
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I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Halifax child sex abuse ring's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Grierson":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 4 February 2018. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Legal charges laid out against accused can be sourced and ennumerated, as can outcomes outcommes of those charges. Withe highly publicized crimes, we do not conceal the charges. E.M.Gregory ( talk) 00:46, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
There's recently been an edit war around whether the perpetrators in this case should be called "British Asian" or "British Pakistani" in the lead of the article. There's now an extended-confirmed protection in place for a few weeks to halt this, but I've a feeling the issue won't go away, so we need to try to reach a consensus.
The sources in the article mainly don't allude to the background of the criminals at all, just referring to them as "men", though one does use the term "Asian" to describe them. If sources don't refer to them as having Pakistani origins, describing them as such in the article is just speculation, or at best WP:OR.
Some other articles about similar cases ( Derby child sex abuse ring, Keighley child sex abuse ring for example) don't mention the background of those involved in the lead, while others ( Newcastle sex abuse ring, Bristol child sex abuse ring) do give this a mention, so there's no real consistency.
The issue is clouded by there being a perception in the UK that this type of crime generally involves perpetrators from ethnic minorities and white victims, and that there's consequently a racial motive. However the sources quoted in this article don't actually say this is the case, they just report the jailing of a group of criminals who sexually abused underage girls.
My personal view is that the ethnicity of criminals doesn't belong in the lead at all unless the crime is unambiguously related to it.
Comments?? Neiltonks ( talk) 13:06, 21 March 2018 (UTC)
I think at this point it is best to avoid having any descriptor in the lead. I understand that it may seem reasonable from your perspective, however it can be seen as prejudiced. In addition nowhere in the article does it state that the perpetrators are muslim, simply being asian and having asian animus does not mean they are practicing muslims. Dmartin969 ( talk) 21:06, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
And dude your imperturbable response sent to my "talk" after blocking me when I was asking you a question that was quite a bit sensitive and a bit sentimental to, say, the victim and her family in this case, is truth be told utterly deplorable and detestable and now I have no qualm in suspecting your moral ground regarding this matter for defending these filthy pigs.. answer me this little man.. if it was truly your daughter, wouldnt you want this case to be given proper coverage and given adamant justice? please answer this question with proper reverence and without your nonchalant disdain — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightershade93 ( talk • contribs) 22:09, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
In any case it appears that the consensus of this discussion appears to point towards leaving it out, and it will remain as such. Dmartin969 ( talk) 23:11, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Well anyway im not here blame anyone here, just want the information to be represented in the most accurate manner. First of all if your were stuck in irresolute and your scruples were not being exactly sure whether these men were infact muslims; if you see the majority of convicts contain 'muhamed' in their names and you dont need birth certificates to corroborate whether the rest of the named were muslim as well, use your inner gut, this is something that should come to you empirically that they were muslim, come on dudes lets be realistic here, you know and i know and so does everelse know thag they were muslims, why dont you just amend it to what it truly is.. its not only me asking you to do this, you had this request from many others as well, you blocked them all.. now this little girl lost everything, basically her whole life ahead of her, stop defending these perpetrators and do the girl some justice — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lightershade93 ( talk • contribs) 23:13, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
+
−
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Halifax child sex abuse ring's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Grierson":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 23:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)